FB: New Coach? - Printable Version
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Mudhead - Mudhead - 03-26-2025
(03-26-2025, 02:15 AM)branner Wrote:I think there is probability that the life experiences of a Black American would give him more understanding of and insight into the thinking and feelings of young African American males than someone without that experience. If that is right , it would make him a better recruiter and retainer of a significant portion of the talent pool. Barry Switzer and some others proved a non Black could be very good at this and it’s hard to argue that Nick Saban didn’t recruit and retain pretty darned well at Alabama. So it’s an(03-25-2025, 08:39 PM)Mudhead Wrote: 9(03-25-2025, 06:31 PM)Farm93 Wrote: Our prior hires over the last 30 years were not in the elite coach tier with the exception of Walsh 2.0.
Elite coaches could expect at least $9 million per year to return to college football unless they are well beyond their prime. Just doesn't seem like the coaches would want to come to Stanford and, more importantly, Stanford would not want to pay the going rate for big name coaches.
So back to the more realistic options....
Given the way the portal works here in 2025 one place of value would be to snag coordinator that is a net loser in the now open transfer portal. Imagine a mid level FBS team that has a strong QB on their roster, but the QB jumps into the portal to join a program with HC potential. In situations like that the offensive coordinator might be an option since one of the reasons to stay would have just left the program this week.
The other path I really hope Luck considers will be African American NFL coordinators or position coaches. There are dozens of African American coaches in the NFL that are more or less stuck in their current roles. They get invited to interviews for HC roles every year but the owners seem to always find some other option. Many of these coaches should have received NFL head coaching roles by now, but they just don't get that chance.
Given Stanford's strong legacy with African American coaches I would hope Stanford could find someone willing to give Stanford a try. That route would probably give us someone in the Dennis Green situation where the new hire will be looking for NFL roles before their first season is over, but at least the hire might impress recruits. And unlike in Dennis Green's era the players could always use the portal to leave if the coach lands an NFL role in 2026 or 2027, so getting a chance to work with a coach fresh from the NFL could be compelling with little downside. If the coach is good enough to finally get that head coaching spot in the NFL in 2026 or 2027, then presumably the players were part of a turnaround story that should enable them to secure big NIL deals in the SEC or BigTen.
Just to clarify your intent because i agree with where you are going: i think we are saying that finding a good African American head coach would be a plus to the program. We are not saying that we need to find the best available African American unless he is the best available coach. I would give points for the African American heritage because it can make a man a more effective head coach. But I want the best coach, period.
How does an African American heritage make a man a more effective head coach?
Individual thing . And it’s a probability, not a certainty.
But if I get two candidates pretty much the same and one is Black, I’d lean towards him ( pretty sure we are talking males here.).
RE: FB: New Coach? - BostonCard - 03-26-2025
I think there is some thought that hiring a Black Coach would be an arbitrage opportunity. Despite some strides, Black head coaches are underrepresented at the head coaching level in both college and professional ranks. That means there may be more availability of Black coaches who are qualified to be a head coach but haven’t gotten the opportunity, and possibly a coach who is good enough to be a head coach at a better school or in the pros but is still available.
BC
RE: Mudhead - Farm93 - 03-26-2025
(03-26-2025, 02:15 AM)branner Wrote:(03-25-2025, 08:39 PM)Mudhead Wrote: 9(03-25-2025, 06:31 PM)Farm93 Wrote: Our prior hires over the last 30 years were not in the elite coach tier with the exception of Walsh 2.0.
Elite coaches could expect at least $9 million per year to return to college football unless they are well beyond their prime. Just doesn't seem like the coaches would want to come to Stanford and, more importantly, Stanford would not want to pay the going rate for big name coaches.
So back to the more realistic options....
Given the way the portal works here in 2025 one place of value would be to snag coordinator that is a net loser in the now open transfer portal. Imagine a mid level FBS team that has a strong QB on their roster, but the QB jumps into the portal to join a program with HC potential. In situations like that the offensive coordinator might be an option since one of the reasons to stay would have just left the program this week.
The other path I really hope Luck considers will be African American NFL coordinators or position coaches. There are dozens of African American coaches in the NFL that are more or less stuck in their current roles. They get invited to interviews for HC roles every year but the owners seem to always find some other option. Many of these coaches should have received NFL head coaching roles by now, but they just don't get that chance.
Given Stanford's strong legacy with African American coaches I would hope Stanford could find someone willing to give Stanford a try. That route would probably give us someone in the Dennis Green situation where the new hire will be looking for NFL roles before their first season is over, but at least the hire might impress recruits. And unlike in Dennis Green's era the players could always use the portal to leave if the coach lands an NFL role in 2026 or 2027, so getting a chance to work with a coach fresh from the NFL could be compelling with little downside. If the coach is good enough to finally get that head coaching spot in the NFL in 2026 or 2027, then presumably the players were part of a turnaround story that should enable them to secure big NIL deals in the SEC or BigTen.
Just to clarify your intent because i agree with where you are going: i think we are saying that finding a good African American head coach would be a plus to the program. We are not saying that we need to find the best available African American unless he is the best available coach. I would give points for the African American heritage because it can make a man a more effective head coach. But I want the best coach, period.
How does an African American heritage make a man a more effective head coach?
Happy to answer this one.
First, we have recruiting. Many of the best HS players are African-Americans and their families often want their children to have at least someone on the staff that is African-American too. Is this true for every family? Obviously not. But there are some players, and/or their families, particularly in the African-American community that would prefer coaches that understand the unique challenges that might emerge for an African-American athlete studying thousands of miles away from home and yet also having to play games as the away team in the South. Given Stanford plays in ACC & SEC country it would be nice to have this key recruiting edge.
Next, and more critically, we have discrimination. The NFL has long had the Rooney rule, but NFL owners as a group still don't want African-American head coaches. A similar dynamic has been common in the SEC and the ACC. Far too often, those widely successful coordinators have interviewed several times for head coach roles, but.....well....let's just call it what it is....racism prevents them from even getting a chance.
So logically, if you are a program that is not exactly a desirable stop and you are now looking for a coach at a really bad time, then perhaps it would be best to find someone that has been systematically overlooked.
Think of it like Moneyball for coaches. The best coaching value in football will be with African-Americans because society undervalues them.
Stanford, thankfully, has had a few successful African American football head coaches. So IMHO this is the time to play head coaching Moneyball again. There are a number of NFL and SEC African-American coordinators that just can't get a break, and therefore are going to be the most open to taking on this rather difficult challenge. (Admissions, transfer portal restrictions, limited fanbase, empty stadium, very limited student support, wrong time zone, awful time in the calendar to join the program, etc.)
Presumably this Moneyball approach would be applicable for Hispanic-Americans or any female coaches, but with less certainty on the possibility of recruiting benefits.
The real key for the Moneyball approach would be to hire the types the others are overlooking for whatever reason. Much like the Oakland A's of the 1990s understood they were not going to win the free agency battle against the Yankees, Braves, Red Sox. Stanford has to understand this particular opening is unlikely to appeal to types that are on the short list for major SEC, BigTen and NFL roles.
The Moneyball play for Stanford? African-Americans.
RE: FB: New Coach? - French Rage - 03-26-2025
(03-25-2025, 11:09 PM)PVTree Wrote: My outside the box candidate: Mike Kafka, NY Giants Offensive Coordinator.
He's been interviewed for NFL head coaching positions, more importantly, he's a graduate of my high school. He had interest in Stanford but attended Northwestern.
Only if his strategy is to turn our offense into a distributed stream-processing style.
Mudhead - Mudhead - 03-26-2025
(03-26-2025, 07:13 AM)branner Wrote:(03-26-2025, 05:02 AM)Mudhead Wrote:(03-26-2025, 02:15 AM)branner Wrote:I think there is probability that the life experiences of a Black American would give him more understanding of and insight into the thinking and feelings of young African American males than someone without that experience. If that is right , it would make him a better recruiter and retainer of a significant portion of the talent pool. Barry Switzer and some others proved a non Black could be very good at this and it’s hard to argue that Nick Saban didn’t recruit and retain pretty darned well at Alabama. So it’s an(03-25-2025, 08:39 PM)Mudhead Wrote: 9(03-25-2025, 06:31 PM)Farm93 Wrote: Our prior hires over the last 30 years were not in the elite coach tier with the exception of Walsh 2.0.
Elite coaches could expect at least $9 million per year to return to college football unless they are well beyond their prime. Just doesn't seem like the coaches would want to come to Stanford and, more importantly, Stanford would not want to pay the going rate for big name coaches.
So back to the more realistic options....
Given the way the portal works here in 2025 one place of value would be to snag coordinator that is a net loser in the now open transfer portal. Imagine a mid level FBS team that has a strong QB on their roster, but the QB jumps into the portal to join a program with HC potential. In situations like that the offensive coordinator might be an option since one of the reasons to stay would have just left the program this week.
The other path I really hope Luck considers will be African American NFL coordinators or position coaches. There are dozens of African American coaches in the NFL that are more or less stuck in their current roles. They get invited to interviews for HC roles every year but the owners seem to always find some other option. Many of these coaches should have received NFL head coaching roles by now, but they just don't get that chance.
Given Stanford's strong legacy with African American coaches I would hope Stanford could find someone willing to give Stanford a try. That route would probably give us someone in the Dennis Green situation where the new hire will be looking for NFL roles before their first season is over, but at least the hire might impress recruits. And unlike in Dennis Green's era the players could always use the portal to leave if the coach lands an NFL role in 2026 or 2027, so getting a chance to work with a coach fresh from the NFL could be compelling with little downside. If the coach is good enough to finally get that head coaching spot in the NFL in 2026 or 2027, then presumably the players were part of a turnaround story that should enable them to secure big NIL deals in the SEC or BigTen.
Just to clarify your intent because i agree with where you are going: i think we are saying that finding a good African American head coach would be a plus to the program. We are not saying that we need to find the best available African American unless he is the best available coach. I would give points for the African American heritage because it can make a man a more effective head coach. But I want the best coach, period.
How does an African American heritage make a man a more effective head coach?
Individual thing . And it’s a probability, not a certainty.
But if I get two candidates pretty much the same and one is Black, I’d lean towards him ( pretty sure we are talking males here.).
Thank you for your reply. I understand your hypothesis, but doubt its validity. Almost half of Division I college football players are black. Only about fifteen percent of head football coaches in Division I are black. Implicit in your hypothesis is that (i) black players are better than white players, on average, and (ii) institutions should prefer black coaches, the better to attract (the on-average superior) black players. If your hypothesis were true, we would tend to see black players clustering around black coaches and teams led by black coaches outperforming teams led by white coaches. But I see no evidence that is the case.
I would prefer for Stanford to find the coach it believes is best able to lead us to consistent competitiveness for national titles, irrespective of any racial considerations. I believe you share the same goal. We just differ (respectfully) on what qualities Stanford should consider in making its choice.
Fair enough. The only qualifier I would ad to your last paragraph is that if there are two candidates pretty close in your mind, irrespective of race, and one of them brings the plus of the Black experience, I’d go,that way. But , as you suggested, if it’s not the case that it’s an advantage in recruiting and retaining talent, then my tie breaker doesn’t really break a tie.
RE: FB: New Coach? - msqueri - 03-26-2025
For what it’s worth, Taylor had one of the least black staffs in the nation and also happened to recruit poorly. It’s impossible to know if there was a relationship between the two things but I posted when Taylor initially hired a shockingly white staff that this was an unusual look, I thought a bad look, plausibly bad for recruiting, and way extremely unbalanced by the norms of current practice in college football. I don’t think SEC schools have so many black assistant coaches to be woke.
From an arbitrage perspective, connecting to our/Luck’s message and value proposition, and as a potential echo to Stanford head coach hires of the past that worked relatively well, Troy Walters is a very intriguing candidate. I think he maybe should be the betting favorite.
RE: FB: New Coach? - PVTree - 03-26-2025
I have a (bad) sense that it may be Tavita. Bad because I think he's too green, no head coaching experience, and who knows how much input/control he had over the turtle offense strategy that was very boring.
RE: FB: New Coach? - SamuelMcF - 03-26-2025
(03-26-2025, 10:41 AM)PVTree Wrote: who knows how much input/control he had over the turtle offense strategy that was very boring.
Zero
RE: FB: New Coach? - Red80 - 03-26-2025
(03-26-2025, 10:41 AM)PVTree Wrote: I have a (bad) sense that it may be Tavita. Bad because I think he's too green, no head coaching experience, and who knows how much input/control he had over the turtle offense strategy that was very boring.
Turtle Offense? Do you mean the one that resulted in 3 Pac-12 Titles and nearly a 4th between '12 and '17?
Stanford did open it up from '19-'24 but unfortunately had zero winning seasons.
Turtling was an overused term to describe the offense during Stanford's incredible success. I'd say Boa Constricting was more apt. SU's offense suffocated their opponents' offense, many of which were more talented, by simply not letting them get on the field. This was why so many opposing coaches, players, and fans hated playing Stanford.
Boring? Maybe. I'll take that kind of boring anytime.
RE: FB: New Coach? - BobK - 03-26-2025
I agree Red 80. Three great Rose Bowls
But 2020 was a winning 4-2
RE: FB: New Coach? - msqueri - 03-26-2025
I only see Pritchard coming if, frankly, Luck abuses Pritchard’s friendship and loyalty and manipulates him into coming. I think it would be a terrible decision for Pritchard to come back to Stanford in the next year. He should be our head coach in 2035 after he gets fired from his NFL head coach job.
RE: FB: New Coach? - fullmetal - 03-26-2025
(03-26-2025, 08:03 AM)French Rage Wrote: Only if his strategy is to turn our offense into a distributed stream-processing style.
an open-source offensive metamorphosis of a sort, you might say.
RE: FB: New Coach? - martyup - 03-26-2025
If game stats were input in real time, I wonder how Grok3 would do calling offensive and defensive plays.
![[Image: ?u=https%3A%2F%2Fc.tenor.com%2FlRYnlliIP...ipo=images]](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fc.tenor.com%2FlRYnlliIPhAAAAAM%2Fwhat-huh.gif&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=5867180e8cde077e4c0ed82bd5e038cb22588aa98ea26965969aec5c1451f4eb&ipo=images)
RE: FB: New Coach? - MarinCard - 03-26-2025
(03-26-2025, 04:28 PM)martyup Wrote: If game stats were input in real time, I wonder how Grok3 would do calling offensive and defensive plays.
This is a vein I’ve legit wondered how Stanford could leverage. The university has some of the best minds in AI not to mention a bunch of brilliant students. What could the combo of generative AI and computer vision do in both predicting plays and tendencies and designing schemes on both sides of the ball? Just make the GAs put a bunch of classifier data into a special instructions set, or even devise a slim specialized model.
RE: FB: New Coach? - Card10Fan - 03-26-2025
Has Jon Wilner posted anything? Things are going to need to move quickly. Someone has to have some better insight who we are looking at and when to expect an announcement.
RE: FB: New Coach? - lex24 - 03-26-2025
(03-26-2025, 12:04 PM)Red80 Wrote:(03-26-2025, 10:41 AM)PVTree Wrote: I have a (bad) sense that it may be Tavita. Bad because I think he's too green, no head coaching experience, and who knows how much input/control he had over the turtle offense strategy that was very boring.
Turtle Offense? Do you mean the one that resulted in 3 Pac-12 Titles and nearly a 4th between '12 and '17?
Stanford did open it up from '19-'24 but unfortunately had zero winning seasons.
Turtling was an overused term to describe the offense during Stanford's incredible success. I'd say Boa Constricting was more apt. SU's offense suffocated their opponents' offense, many of which were more talented, by simply not letting them get on the field. This was why so many opposing coaches, players, and fans hated playing Stanford.
Boring? Maybe. I'll take that kind of boring anytime.
Yep. Job 1 for any new HC. Build the offensive and defensive lines. Dominating the LOS was the key in those “turtling” years.
RE: FB: New Coach? - jacket3ree - 03-26-2025
You know who AI is, right?
Quote:Recommendation:
Given the situation (up by a point, 4th and 1), a quarterback sneak or a quick, inside run (such as a dive or power play) is probably your best option, especially if you have a strong offensive line and a good quarterback. These plays maximize your chances of converting the 1 yard with the least risk, while keeping the clock moving and maintaining control of the ball.
If you're not confident in your offensive line's ability to win this battle, consider punting as the safer, low-risk choice.
David Shaw
RE: FB: New Coach? - Card10Fan - 03-26-2025
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/fallout-at-stanford-troy-taylor-out-staff-stunned-andrew-luck-goes-into-decision-mode-with-options-to-weigh/
RE: FB: New Coach? - fullmetal - 03-26-2025
Bring in Sam Schwartzstein for analytics.
RE: FB: New Coach? - skip75 - 03-26-2025
I don't know the credibility of these sources, but here is some speculation regarding Stanford's next coach:
https://247sports.com/college/stanford/longformarticle/stanford-fires-coach-troy-taylor-potential-replacement-candidates-include-jason-garrett-kliff-kingsbury-247663237/#2623853
https://sports.yahoo.com/article/kliff-kingsbury-tabbed-early-candidate-222507132.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAI1HRBV5KNhzcMzP1pChNyg43ZVhfJ5jkoiUArhcEg31WcYwzhHBwVyu03dy_XlNy3DAgqQKXq1rII8Gucwe1VniIE-0ZKS1TKI1-h02vc6N_JNqMzwsjGYs49fUvWJh0RGrr7WrqoYMhYjs2fDG2dELFTPmrMvaniaK-ycApWg1