How many wake up calls does this team need? - Printable Version
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Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-28-2012
(10-28-2012, 04:07 PM)CowboyIndian link Wrote:[quote author=AlbanyCardinal link=topic=6762.msg50802#msg50802 date=1351463515]
The whole team is meritocratic, where every position needs to be earned and proven week to week, with the exception of the QB.
Link, please... or documentation. Otherwise I would have to say you're talking out of the wrong end.
[/quote]
You may have a point, which is to say there are other players deserving of PT who do not see the field much or enough. But Shaw in the past has definitely said that players need to earn their starting spot. He also said that 60% was the base completion % for Stanford's starting QB.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-28-2012
(10-28-2012, 04:07 PM)CowboyIndian link Wrote:[quote author=AlbanyCardinal link=topic=6762.msg50802#msg50802 date=1351463515]
The whole team is meritocratic, where every position needs to be earned and proven week to week, with the exception of the QB.
Link, please... or documentation. Otherwise I would have to say you're talking out of the wrong end.
[/quote]
You may have a point, which is to say there are other players deserving of PT who do not see the field much or enough. But Shaw in the past has definitely said that players need to earn their starting spot. He also said that 60% was the base completion % for Stanford's starting QB.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - washingtonismoney - 10-28-2012
Rees has a lot of extra fumbles in there--like four or five lost, I believe--and took tons of unnecessary sacks. Rees also had more skill position talent-- Floyd was ridiculous, Eifert pretty good, Gray/Riddick/Wood a very good trio at running back...
So I think it's a tough decision. I might go with Rees because of the accuracy.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - washingtonismoney - 10-28-2012
Rees has a lot of extra fumbles in there--like four or five lost, I believe--and took tons of unnecessary sacks. Rees also had more skill position talent-- Floyd was ridiculous, Eifert pretty good, Gray/Riddick/Wood a very good trio at running back...
So I think it's a tough decision. I might go with Rees because of the accuracy.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - washingtonismoney - 10-28-2012
(10-28-2012, 05:49 PM)AlbanyCardinal link Wrote:You may have a point, which is to say there are other players deserving of PT who do not see the field much or enough. But Shaw in the past has definitely said that players need to earn their starting spot. He also said that 60% was the base completion % for Stanford's starting QB.
Of course, it could be meritocratic in the sense that Shaw believes Nunes is the best of a bad bunch.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - washingtonismoney - 10-28-2012
(10-28-2012, 05:49 PM)AlbanyCardinal link Wrote:You may have a point, which is to say there are other players deserving of PT who do not see the field much or enough. But Shaw in the past has definitely said that players need to earn their starting spot. He also said that 60% was the base completion % for Stanford's starting QB.
Of course, it could be meritocratic in the sense that Shaw believes Nunes is the best of a bad bunch.
Re: It's not Nunes, it's Shaw... - jayasena - 10-28-2012
(10-28-2012, 05:19 PM)LuckE2Bhere link Wrote:I'm not saying Shaw is right. May he is just plain stubborn? I don't know him personally, but neither do most of you, and I'm confident that he's seen our alternatives run this offense a few more times than any of us have. Maybe he just doesn't want to win games, so he's intentionally keeping his best QB option off of the field?!?
You may be onto something here. Shaw has said he wants to stay at Stanford for a long time. I'd bet the national attention (and mentions of NFL interest) following the SC win spooked him. Perhaps he figured the only way to avoid the temptation of NFL offers, or having to explain to his family why he's turning down jobs that could pay integer multiples of his current salary, is to lose a few games. What better way to do that than to keep his best QB hidden from public sight?! That's got to be it!!
Honestly, I wouldn't want to be in Shaw's shoes (well, maybe I'll rethink that stance given his salary). It's clear he's frustrated with the offense (cf. his comments to the TV reporter at half time). It also looks to me like he's looking for a solution, given the increasing frequency of Hogan plays. But all of our recent games have been close. We led late even in the games we lost. It's a brobdingnagian risk to make a change under those circumstances. And changing your starter after a convincing win is an even greater risk. It's one thing to change your QB just to see what happens when you have nothing left to play for. It's a whole 'nother thing with a team whose only losses are two close ones and still a lot on the line.
The increasing Hogan plays show that this isn't about Nunes having compromising pictures of Shaw or something of the sort. To me, it seems clear that Shaw just doesn't think he has better options. He clearly doesn't think Nottingham is a long-term, or even a short-term, solution.
Personally, I'm not concerned about what some see as Shaw being obstinate. His comments and actions indicate he's frustrated with the status quo himself. To me, that's not being obstinate -- that's just being stuck in a tough situation with no viable alternative. The thing that concerns me more is our staff's apparent inability to spot or develop QB talent (aside from Luck, who even a blind man could probably tell was going to be a great one). I don't know if this is still the case -- it's hard to tell since on-field results will lag actual improvement in this respect by a couple of years. But if Hogan and subsequent QB recruits continue to underperform realistic expectations, this would be a real and much more significant question mark about the staff.
Re: It's not Nunes, it's Shaw... - jayasena - 10-28-2012
(10-28-2012, 05:19 PM)LuckE2Bhere link Wrote:I'm not saying Shaw is right. May he is just plain stubborn? I don't know him personally, but neither do most of you, and I'm confident that he's seen our alternatives run this offense a few more times than any of us have. Maybe he just doesn't want to win games, so he's intentionally keeping his best QB option off of the field?!?
You may be onto something here. Shaw has said he wants to stay at Stanford for a long time. I'd bet the national attention (and mentions of NFL interest) following the SC win spooked him. Perhaps he figured the only way to avoid the temptation of NFL offers, or having to explain to his family why he's turning down jobs that could pay integer multiples of his current salary, is to lose a few games. What better way to do that than to keep his best QB hidden from public sight?! That's got to be it!!
Honestly, I wouldn't want to be in Shaw's shoes (well, maybe I'll rethink that stance given his salary). It's clear he's frustrated with the offense (cf. his comments to the TV reporter at half time). It also looks to me like he's looking for a solution, given the increasing frequency of Hogan plays. But all of our recent games have been close. We led late even in the games we lost. It's a brobdingnagian risk to make a change under those circumstances. And changing your starter after a convincing win is an even greater risk. It's one thing to change your QB just to see what happens when you have nothing left to play for. It's a whole 'nother thing with a team whose only losses are two close ones and still a lot on the line.
The increasing Hogan plays show that this isn't about Nunes having compromising pictures of Shaw or something of the sort. To me, it seems clear that Shaw just doesn't think he has better options. He clearly doesn't think Nottingham is a long-term, or even a short-term, solution.
Personally, I'm not concerned about what some see as Shaw being obstinate. His comments and actions indicate he's frustrated with the status quo himself. To me, that's not being obstinate -- that's just being stuck in a tough situation with no viable alternative. The thing that concerns me more is our staff's apparent inability to spot or develop QB talent (aside from Luck, who even a blind man could probably tell was going to be a great one). I don't know if this is still the case -- it's hard to tell since on-field results will lag actual improvement in this respect by a couple of years. But if Hogan and subsequent QB recruits continue to underperform realistic expectations, this would be a real and much more significant question mark about the staff.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - washingtonismoney - 10-28-2012
It's overly hasty to conclude the staff can't evaluate talent based on the 2009 and 10 classes. For one, Harbaugh was the guy making the calls back then. For two, it's a sample size error to conclude, based on two years, that there's an identification and/or coaching error. Sometimes you just get gaps. Or, there might be an issue. As with many of the coaching-related issues this year, it's just too early to tell.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - washingtonismoney - 10-28-2012
It's overly hasty to conclude the staff can't evaluate talent based on the 2009 and 10 classes. For one, Harbaugh was the guy making the calls back then. For two, it's a sample size error to conclude, based on two years, that there's an identification and/or coaching error. Sometimes you just get gaps. Or, there might be an issue. As with many of the coaching-related issues this year, it's just too early to tell.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - jayasena - 10-28-2012
(10-28-2012, 10:45 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:It's overly hasty to conclude the staff can't evaluate talent based on the 2009 and 10 classes. For one, Harbaugh was the guy making the calls back then. For two, it's a sample size error to conclude, based on two years, that there's an identification and/or coaching error. Sometimes you just get gaps. Or, there might be an issue. As with many of the coaching-related issues this year, it's just too early to tell.
Oh, I'm not concluding anything on this yet. Which is why I said this would be a concern if Hogan and future recruits continue to under-perform. There can certainly be legitimate reasons for why we don't have a good, upperclassman QB right now, such as not many top-tier QBs wanting to sit behind Luck for 2-3 years.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - jayasena - 10-28-2012
(10-28-2012, 10:45 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:It's overly hasty to conclude the staff can't evaluate talent based on the 2009 and 10 classes. For one, Harbaugh was the guy making the calls back then. For two, it's a sample size error to conclude, based on two years, that there's an identification and/or coaching error. Sometimes you just get gaps. Or, there might be an issue. As with many of the coaching-related issues this year, it's just too early to tell.
Oh, I'm not concluding anything on this yet. Which is why I said this would be a concern if Hogan and future recruits continue to under-perform. There can certainly be legitimate reasons for why we don't have a good, upperclassman QB right now, such as not many top-tier QBs wanting to sit behind Luck for 2-3 years.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - yvonne - 10-29-2012
It's disturbing to think that Nunes is the best of a bad bunch, but without other evidence, I think that's the only conclusion. If Nottingham and Nunes were the neck and neck coming out of camp, then he can't be much better, unless he's a gamer.
I wonder why at least average quarterbacks weren't found and developed. I can see why we wouldn't have a junior or senior quarterback, but we don't seem to have a freshman or sophomore waiting in the wings.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - yvonne - 10-29-2012
It's disturbing to think that Nunes is the best of a bad bunch, but without other evidence, I think that's the only conclusion. If Nottingham and Nunes were the neck and neck coming out of camp, then he can't be much better, unless he's a gamer.
I wonder why at least average quarterbacks weren't found and developed. I can see why we wouldn't have a junior or senior quarterback, but we don't seem to have a freshman or sophomore waiting in the wings.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-29-2012
(10-29-2012, 08:00 AM)Yvonne link Wrote:It's disturbing to think that Nunes is the best of a bad bunch, but without other evidence, I think that's the only conclusion. If Nottingham and Nunes were the neck and neck coming out of camp, then he can't be much better, unless he's a gamer.
I wonder why at least average quarterbacks weren't found and developed. I can see why we wouldn't have a junior or senior quarterback, but we don't seem to have a freshman or sophomore waiting in the wings.
Possible, but doesn't feel likely. We know Nottingham has a faster release than Nunes. We know that Nottingham had better numbers in both the spring and fall scrimmages, in spite of leading the 2nd O vs. the 1st D (and vice versa for Nunes). The more likely scenario in my mind is a backstory that complicates things somehow.
As for young QBs waiting in the wings, maybe Dallas Lloyd, the true frosh fresh from his mission, will have a shot to shine in the spring.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-29-2012
(10-29-2012, 08:00 AM)Yvonne link Wrote:It's disturbing to think that Nunes is the best of a bad bunch, but without other evidence, I think that's the only conclusion. If Nottingham and Nunes were the neck and neck coming out of camp, then he can't be much better, unless he's a gamer.
I wonder why at least average quarterbacks weren't found and developed. I can see why we wouldn't have a junior or senior quarterback, but we don't seem to have a freshman or sophomore waiting in the wings.
Possible, but doesn't feel likely. We know Nottingham has a faster release than Nunes. We know that Nottingham had better numbers in both the spring and fall scrimmages, in spite of leading the 2nd O vs. the 1st D (and vice versa for Nunes). The more likely scenario in my mind is a backstory that complicates things somehow.
As for young QBs waiting in the wings, maybe Dallas Lloyd, the true frosh fresh from his mission, will have a shot to shine in the spring.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - washingtonismoney - 10-29-2012
(10-29-2012, 08:00 AM)Yvonne link Wrote:I wonder why at least average quarterbacks weren't found and developed. I can see why we wouldn't have a junior or senior quarterback, but we don't seem to have a freshman or sophomore waiting in the wings.
Well, the coaches seem to like Hogan, so it could be that they're developing him. Lloyd--well, who knows about him. Also a possibility.
But sometimes, as I said earlier, there are just gaps. The problem is, they get you fired. Look at Rick Neuheisel--Prince, Craft, Brehaut were all highly-rated QBs and all were basically busts. Finally he recruits Brett Hundley, who seems destined to be a top-fifteen, top-ten NFL pick...and gets fired before he ever gets to enjoy it. Oops.
(10-29-2012, 08:37 AM)AlbanyCardinal link Wrote:Possible, but doesn't feel likely. We know Nottingham has a faster release than Nunes. We know that Nottingham had better numbers in both the spring and fall scrimmages, in spite of leading the 2nd O vs. the 1st D (and vice versa for Nunes). The more likely scenario in my mind is a backstory that complicates things somehow.
Ah, yes. Irrefutable evidence: scrimmage numbers. Of course, take Nunes' best two games and he's a future NFL QB.
But you're right, the most likely scenario is that Shaw is purposefully sabotaging his own team and career prospects because of some beef between him and a twenty-year-old, based on some stuff in practice and a nice profile or two. Careful evidentiary work--you've cracked the case!
EDIT: Of course it's possible that there is some sort of scenario in which Shaw and Nottingham are feuding for some stupid reason, or there's some other personal reason or whatever. However, besides speculation, there's about zero evidence for this position. Given that there's no evidence of Shaw acting in such a petty manner in the past, this doesn't seem terribly likely. But some people believe in fairy godmothers, I guess...
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - washingtonismoney - 10-29-2012
(10-29-2012, 08:00 AM)Yvonne link Wrote:I wonder why at least average quarterbacks weren't found and developed. I can see why we wouldn't have a junior or senior quarterback, but we don't seem to have a freshman or sophomore waiting in the wings.
Well, the coaches seem to like Hogan, so it could be that they're developing him. Lloyd--well, who knows about him. Also a possibility.
But sometimes, as I said earlier, there are just gaps. The problem is, they get you fired. Look at Rick Neuheisel--Prince, Craft, Brehaut were all highly-rated QBs and all were basically busts. Finally he recruits Brett Hundley, who seems destined to be a top-fifteen, top-ten NFL pick...and gets fired before he ever gets to enjoy it. Oops.
(10-29-2012, 08:37 AM)AlbanyCardinal link Wrote:Possible, but doesn't feel likely. We know Nottingham has a faster release than Nunes. We know that Nottingham had better numbers in both the spring and fall scrimmages, in spite of leading the 2nd O vs. the 1st D (and vice versa for Nunes). The more likely scenario in my mind is a backstory that complicates things somehow.
Ah, yes. Irrefutable evidence: scrimmage numbers. Of course, take Nunes' best two games and he's a future NFL QB.
But you're right, the most likely scenario is that Shaw is purposefully sabotaging his own team and career prospects because of some beef between him and a twenty-year-old, based on some stuff in practice and a nice profile or two. Careful evidentiary work--you've cracked the case!
EDIT: Of course it's possible that there is some sort of scenario in which Shaw and Nottingham are feuding for some stupid reason, or there's some other personal reason or whatever. However, besides speculation, there's about zero evidence for this position. Given that there's no evidence of Shaw acting in such a petty manner in the past, this doesn't seem terribly likely. But some people believe in fairy godmothers, I guess...
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - yvonne - 10-29-2012
I've wondered whether Nottingham is in the doghouse for some reason that hasn't been disclosed to the public.
Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - yvonne - 10-29-2012
I've wondered whether Nottingham is in the doghouse for some reason that hasn't been disclosed to the public.