Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - Printable Version
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Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - washingtonismoney - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 11:40 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:Somnabule, when you watch Nunes play QB, what do your eyes tell you about (a) his accuracy, and (b) his ability to go through his progressions/reads? The former should never be an issue for a starting D1 quarterback..
Teejers, I hate to break it to you, but there are a lot of inaccurate D1 quarterbacks out there.
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - washingtonismoney - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 11:40 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:Somnabule, when you watch Nunes play QB, what do your eyes tell you about (a) his accuracy, and (b) his ability to go through his progressions/reads? The former should never be an issue for a starting D1 quarterback..
Teejers, I hate to break it to you, but there are a lot of inaccurate D1 quarterbacks out there.
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - fullmetal - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 11:47 AM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:[quote author=teejers1 link=topic=6768.msg50956#msg50956 date=1351622406]
Somnabule, when you watch Nunes play QB, what do your eyes tell you about (a) his accuracy, and (b) his ability to go through his progressions/reads? The former should never be an issue for a starting D1 quarterback..
Teejers, I hate to break it to you, but there are a lot of inaccurate D1 quarterbacks out there.
[/quote]
We must have beaten most of them already...
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - fullmetal - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 11:47 AM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:[quote author=teejers1 link=topic=6768.msg50956#msg50956 date=1351622406]
Somnabule, when you watch Nunes play QB, what do your eyes tell you about (a) his accuracy, and (b) his ability to go through his progressions/reads? The former should never be an issue for a starting D1 quarterback..
Teejers, I hate to break it to you, but there are a lot of inaccurate D1 quarterbacks out there.
[/quote]
We must have beaten most of them already...
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - Farm93 - 10-30-2012
Denard Robinson, former Voldemort hopeful, is at #108. So see #110 is not that bad. He is just two slots below a BigTen legend!!!
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - Farm93 - 10-30-2012
Denard Robinson, former Voldemort hopeful, is at #108. So see #110 is not that bad. He is just two slots below a BigTen legend!!!
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - jayasena - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 10:45 AM)NYCCardinalFan link Wrote:[quote author=somnambule link=topic=6768.msg50872#msg50872 date=1351542059]
I expected to see a Carson Palmer comparison to start the thread :)
Palmer's first full year as starer looked remarkably like where Nunes is headed. The general consensus on Palmer throughout the conference during his early years was also similar to Nunes' -- that he'd never be a serviceable D1 QB.
Palmer in 2000: 228/415 (54.9%) for 2914 yards, 16 Passing TDs; 18 Interceptions; 7.0 Y/A; 118 rating
Nunes in 2012 so far: 121/230 (52.6%) for 1620 yards, 10 passing TDs; 7 interceptions; 7.0 Y/A; 120 rating
In case anyone thinks I'm seriously suggesting that Nunes will win a Voldemort -- I'm not. I'm merely pointing out an interesting parallel* that seemed to fit with the thread.
Bummer if Nottingham is transferring, but agree with Yvonne. Can't blame him at all.
* Of course, Palmer was a red-shirt Soph at the time (had started 8 games before 2000 though) while Nunes is a Senior. Plus I'm hoping Shaw is nothing like Paul Hackett and we can fix our offensive woes without a coaching change.
I don't know where to begin on comparing Palmer to Nunes. I saw Palmer from his early games to his later games at the team Under Stanford Control and it was clear from the get-go that he could be very good when he found his rhythm. You also saw clear and steady improvement from Palmer as the season progressed. Nunes is not showing signs of significant improvement and I have zero indication from watching him play that he will significantly improve.[/quote]
Sorry, NYC -- revisionist history. Palmer was as inconsistent as they came in his early college years. I attended SC for undergrad, so I followed that team almost as closely as I followed Stanford at the time. Even leading into his senior year, when analysts were projecting USC as the top team in the conference, the fan reaction around the conference at the time (including Stanford boards) was along the lines of "yeah, right -- not with that joke of a QB".
Despite 8 starts under his belt before 2000, there was no improvement to be seen during that year (or much the following year). Plus his team lost 7 of the last 9 games that season, including losses to Washington State (4-7) and Cal (3-8) after starting 3-0. If that's what you call steady progress through the season, I'm not sure what you are complaining about with this Stanford team.
In Palmer's defense, his later improvement shows how much of a role coaching plays in player development (in case there were any doubts).
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - jayasena - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 10:45 AM)NYCCardinalFan link Wrote:[quote author=somnambule link=topic=6768.msg50872#msg50872 date=1351542059]
I expected to see a Carson Palmer comparison to start the thread :)
Palmer's first full year as starer looked remarkably like where Nunes is headed. The general consensus on Palmer throughout the conference during his early years was also similar to Nunes' -- that he'd never be a serviceable D1 QB.
Palmer in 2000: 228/415 (54.9%) for 2914 yards, 16 Passing TDs; 18 Interceptions; 7.0 Y/A; 118 rating
Nunes in 2012 so far: 121/230 (52.6%) for 1620 yards, 10 passing TDs; 7 interceptions; 7.0 Y/A; 120 rating
In case anyone thinks I'm seriously suggesting that Nunes will win a Voldemort -- I'm not. I'm merely pointing out an interesting parallel* that seemed to fit with the thread.
Bummer if Nottingham is transferring, but agree with Yvonne. Can't blame him at all.
* Of course, Palmer was a red-shirt Soph at the time (had started 8 games before 2000 though) while Nunes is a Senior. Plus I'm hoping Shaw is nothing like Paul Hackett and we can fix our offensive woes without a coaching change.
I don't know where to begin on comparing Palmer to Nunes. I saw Palmer from his early games to his later games at the team Under Stanford Control and it was clear from the get-go that he could be very good when he found his rhythm. You also saw clear and steady improvement from Palmer as the season progressed. Nunes is not showing signs of significant improvement and I have zero indication from watching him play that he will significantly improve.[/quote]
Sorry, NYC -- revisionist history. Palmer was as inconsistent as they came in his early college years. I attended SC for undergrad, so I followed that team almost as closely as I followed Stanford at the time. Even leading into his senior year, when analysts were projecting USC as the top team in the conference, the fan reaction around the conference at the time (including Stanford boards) was along the lines of "yeah, right -- not with that joke of a QB".
Despite 8 starts under his belt before 2000, there was no improvement to be seen during that year (or much the following year). Plus his team lost 7 of the last 9 games that season, including losses to Washington State (4-7) and Cal (3-8) after starting 3-0. If that's what you call steady progress through the season, I'm not sure what you are complaining about with this Stanford team.
In Palmer's defense, his later improvement shows how much of a role coaching plays in player development (in case there were any doubts).
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - jayasena - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 11:40 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:Thank you, NYC. The comparison of Nunes to Palmer is . . . well, I'll restrain myself and simply say "hard to believe."
Somnabule, when you watch Nunes play QB, what do your eyes tell you about (a) his accuracy, and (b) his ability to go through his progressions/reads? The former should never be an issue for a starting D1 quarterback; the latter is more understandable, but should improve with experience. We haven't seen any improvement on that front.
Teejers, I put the following disclaimer explicitly in that post, even though it should be blindingly obvious, precisely because I expected responses like yours: "In case anyone thinks I'm seriously suggesting that Nunes will win a Voldemort -- I'm not. I'm merely pointing out an interesting parallel* that seemed to fit with the thread". Still, I didn't expect them from seasoned members of the board.
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - jayasena - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 11:40 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:Thank you, NYC. The comparison of Nunes to Palmer is . . . well, I'll restrain myself and simply say "hard to believe."
Somnabule, when you watch Nunes play QB, what do your eyes tell you about (a) his accuracy, and (b) his ability to go through his progressions/reads? The former should never be an issue for a starting D1 quarterback; the latter is more understandable, but should improve with experience. We haven't seen any improvement on that front.
Teejers, I put the following disclaimer explicitly in that post, even though it should be blindingly obvious, precisely because I expected responses like yours: "In case anyone thinks I'm seriously suggesting that Nunes will win a Voldemort -- I'm not. I'm merely pointing out an interesting parallel* that seemed to fit with the thread". Still, I didn't expect them from seasoned members of the board.
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - teejers1 - 10-30-2012
Somna, I didn't take your post as an implication that Nunes might win the Voldemort as Carson did. I merely read it as you saying "Carson was bad his first year, like Nunes, so Nunes might turn out to be a very good QB."
When I first saw Carson Palmer throw the ball, I immediately thought: "this guy can spin it. He may not be most mobile guy, he may send an occasional pass flying, but he has it."Â
I have never once entertained that thought with our current starter. That's all I meant by rhetorically asking what do your eyes tell you.Â
[And btw, stats notwithstanding, I am confident in saying that Palmer as a first year starter was a much more accurate passer than our guy. And I don't see Nunes throwing for 3,000 yards, either. That would require averaging 250 yards over 12 games. I don't see that happening.]
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - teejers1 - 10-30-2012
Somna, I didn't take your post as an implication that Nunes might win the Voldemort as Carson did. I merely read it as you saying "Carson was bad his first year, like Nunes, so Nunes might turn out to be a very good QB."
When I first saw Carson Palmer throw the ball, I immediately thought: "this guy can spin it. He may not be most mobile guy, he may send an occasional pass flying, but he has it."Â
I have never once entertained that thought with our current starter. That's all I meant by rhetorically asking what do your eyes tell you.Â
[And btw, stats notwithstanding, I am confident in saying that Palmer as a first year starter was a much more accurate passer than our guy. And I don't see Nunes throwing for 3,000 yards, either. That would require averaging 250 yards over 12 games. I don't see that happening.]
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - fullmetal - 10-30-2012
Thankfully Nunes does complete passes, but his completion percentage is below Shaw's stated baseline of 60%.
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - fullmetal - 10-30-2012
Thankfully Nunes does complete passes, but his completion percentage is below Shaw's stated baseline of 60%.
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - Cardinal96 - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 02:52 PM)somnambule link Wrote:[quote author=NYCCardinalFan link=topic=6768.msg50949#msg50949 date=1351619134]
[quote author=somnambule link=topic=6768.msg50872#msg50872 date=1351542059]
I expected to see a Carson Palmer comparison to start the thread :)
Palmer's first full year as starer looked remarkably like where Nunes is headed. The general consensus on Palmer throughout the conference during his early years was also similar to Nunes' -- that he'd never be a serviceable D1 QB.
Palmer in 2000: 228/415 (54.9%) for 2914 yards, 16 Passing TDs; 18 Interceptions; 7.0 Y/A; 118 rating
Nunes in 2012 so far: 121/230 (52.6%) for 1620 yards, 10 passing TDs; 7 interceptions; 7.0 Y/A; 120 rating
In case anyone thinks I'm seriously suggesting that Nunes will win a Voldemort -- I'm not. I'm merely pointing out an interesting parallel* that seemed to fit with the thread.
Bummer if Nottingham is transferring, but agree with Yvonne. Can't blame him at all.
* Of course, Palmer was a red-shirt Soph at the time (had started 8 games before 2000 though) while Nunes is a Senior. Plus I'm hoping Shaw is nothing like Paul Hackett and we can fix our offensive woes without a coaching change.
I don't know where to begin on comparing Palmer to Nunes. I saw Palmer from his early games to his later games at the team Under Stanford Control and it was clear from the get-go that he could be very good when he found his rhythm. You also saw clear and steady improvement from Palmer as the season progressed. Nunes is not showing signs of significant improvement and I have zero indication from watching him play that he will significantly improve.[/quote]
Sorry, NYC -- revisionist history. Palmer was as inconsistent as they came in his early college years. I attended SC for undergrad, so I followed that team almost as closely as I followed Stanford at the time. Even leading into his senior year, when analysts were projecting the team Under Stanford Control as the top team in the conference, the fan reaction around the conference at the time (including Stanford boards) was along the lines of "yeah, right -- not with that joke of a QB".
Despite 8 starts under his belt before 2000, there was no improvement to be seen during that year (or much the following year). Plus his team lost 7 of the last 9 games that season, including losses to Washington State (4-7) and the college near a BART station (3-8) after starting 3-0. If that's what you call steady progress through the season, I'm not sure what you are complaining about with this Stanford team.
In Palmer's defense, his later improvement shows how much of a role coaching plays in player development (in case there were any doubts).
[/quote]
I mostly remember the 1998 season, his freshman year. I saw him a few times that year. So I went and looked at the stats. That year he was 130/235 (55.3%) for 1755 yards (7.5 yap) with 7 TD and 6 interceptions. That was a total rating of 122.8.Â
That is slightly north of Nunes' numbers this year and that was as a true freshman. The team was comparable. They were 8-4 in the regular season and lost to TCU in the Sun Bowl that year.
I wasn't the only one who thought Carson Palmer had promise. Jon Wilner covered Palmer for the LA Times at the time and thought he had potential from the get-go.
Can anyone honestly tell me that they see potential elite QB in Josh Nunes by next year? Unlike Palmer, we don't get three years to build his skillset up.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2011/10/23/carson-palmer-flashback-the-usc-launching-november-1998/
Quote:He just obviously was an NFL QB in the making, from his first action at USC.
He wasnt truly great until the end of his Trojan career, when Pete Carroll and Norm Chow got a hold of him, but Palmer definitely had major, major skills and poise at an early stage.
Read that link and you can see the accolades he was getting. I haven't seen Nunes getting much of any accolades this year.
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - Cardinal96 - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 02:52 PM)somnambule link Wrote:[quote author=NYCCardinalFan link=topic=6768.msg50949#msg50949 date=1351619134]
[quote author=somnambule link=topic=6768.msg50872#msg50872 date=1351542059]
I expected to see a Carson Palmer comparison to start the thread :)
Palmer's first full year as starer looked remarkably like where Nunes is headed. The general consensus on Palmer throughout the conference during his early years was also similar to Nunes' -- that he'd never be a serviceable D1 QB.
Palmer in 2000: 228/415 (54.9%) for 2914 yards, 16 Passing TDs; 18 Interceptions; 7.0 Y/A; 118 rating
Nunes in 2012 so far: 121/230 (52.6%) for 1620 yards, 10 passing TDs; 7 interceptions; 7.0 Y/A; 120 rating
In case anyone thinks I'm seriously suggesting that Nunes will win a Voldemort -- I'm not. I'm merely pointing out an interesting parallel* that seemed to fit with the thread.
Bummer if Nottingham is transferring, but agree with Yvonne. Can't blame him at all.
* Of course, Palmer was a red-shirt Soph at the time (had started 8 games before 2000 though) while Nunes is a Senior. Plus I'm hoping Shaw is nothing like Paul Hackett and we can fix our offensive woes without a coaching change.
I don't know where to begin on comparing Palmer to Nunes. I saw Palmer from his early games to his later games at the team Under Stanford Control and it was clear from the get-go that he could be very good when he found his rhythm. You also saw clear and steady improvement from Palmer as the season progressed. Nunes is not showing signs of significant improvement and I have zero indication from watching him play that he will significantly improve.[/quote]
Sorry, NYC -- revisionist history. Palmer was as inconsistent as they came in his early college years. I attended SC for undergrad, so I followed that team almost as closely as I followed Stanford at the time. Even leading into his senior year, when analysts were projecting the team Under Stanford Control as the top team in the conference, the fan reaction around the conference at the time (including Stanford boards) was along the lines of "yeah, right -- not with that joke of a QB".
Despite 8 starts under his belt before 2000, there was no improvement to be seen during that year (or much the following year). Plus his team lost 7 of the last 9 games that season, including losses to Washington State (4-7) and the college near a BART station (3-8) after starting 3-0. If that's what you call steady progress through the season, I'm not sure what you are complaining about with this Stanford team.
In Palmer's defense, his later improvement shows how much of a role coaching plays in player development (in case there were any doubts).
[/quote]
I mostly remember the 1998 season, his freshman year. I saw him a few times that year. So I went and looked at the stats. That year he was 130/235 (55.3%) for 1755 yards (7.5 yap) with 7 TD and 6 interceptions. That was a total rating of 122.8.Â
That is slightly north of Nunes' numbers this year and that was as a true freshman. The team was comparable. They were 8-4 in the regular season and lost to TCU in the Sun Bowl that year.
I wasn't the only one who thought Carson Palmer had promise. Jon Wilner covered Palmer for the LA Times at the time and thought he had potential from the get-go.
Can anyone honestly tell me that they see potential elite QB in Josh Nunes by next year? Unlike Palmer, we don't get three years to build his skillset up.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2011/10/23/carson-palmer-flashback-the-usc-launching-november-1998/
Quote:He just obviously was an NFL QB in the making, from his first action at USC.
He wasnt truly great until the end of his Trojan career, when Pete Carroll and Norm Chow got a hold of him, but Palmer definitely had major, major skills and poise at an early stage.
Read that link and you can see the accolades he was getting. I haven't seen Nunes getting much of any accolades this year.
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - CowboyIndian - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 09:32 PM)NYCCardinalFan link Wrote:Â I haven't seen Nunes getting much of any accolades this year.Just to be ornery...does Pac-12 Offensive Player of the Week count?
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - CowboyIndian - 10-30-2012
(10-30-2012, 09:32 PM)NYCCardinalFan link Wrote:Â I haven't seen Nunes getting much of any accolades this year.Just to be ornery...does Pac-12 Offensive Player of the Week count?
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - washingtonismoney - 10-30-2012
Look, the problem there is that it's an exercise in mental bias. Kawakami knows what ended up happening and now he's replaying history in a way that makes it look inevitable. A lot of talented guys struggle and get praised as talented but never put it together; that's why Palmer's story is notable.
So if Nunes ever puts it together, and 13 years from now he's a solid NFL QB, this SI guy will say he saw it coming all along (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tony_pauline/10/06/week-6-risers-sliders/index.html), Sam Schwartzstein will be vindicated (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/stanford-coach-david-shaw-stands-behind-qb) and so on. It'll seem as if Nunes was a struggling talent all along, when of course at the moment any such suggestion would seem absurd. I would guess the 1998 message board equivalent for Literature's Most Famous Losers features a lot of chortles at that idiot Kawakami.
Of course it's a tangent that doesn't really matter. A good majority of such players who struggle at first end up struggling their entire career. That's why Shaw and the fanbase is dissatisfied.
Re: Nunes for Voldemort 2013! - washingtonismoney - 10-30-2012
Look, the problem there is that it's an exercise in mental bias. Kawakami knows what ended up happening and now he's replaying history in a way that makes it look inevitable. A lot of talented guys struggle and get praised as talented but never put it together; that's why Palmer's story is notable.
So if Nunes ever puts it together, and 13 years from now he's a solid NFL QB, this SI guy will say he saw it coming all along (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tony_pauline/10/06/week-6-risers-sliders/index.html), Sam Schwartzstein will be vindicated (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/stanford-coach-david-shaw-stands-behind-qb) and so on. It'll seem as if Nunes was a struggling talent all along, when of course at the moment any such suggestion would seem absurd. I would guess the 1998 message board equivalent for Literature's Most Famous Losers features a lot of chortles at that idiot Kawakami.
Of course it's a tangent that doesn't really matter. A good majority of such players who struggle at first end up struggling their entire career. That's why Shaw and the fanbase is dissatisfied.