CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Printable Version
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Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - lex24 - 12-23-2016
(12-19-2016, 10:04 AM)CTcard link Wrote:I at least sort of take issue with all the comments that this is a meaningless, exhibition game.
I don't see why it is any more meaningless than most of the team's games. They keep score, Stanford's final record for the season will end up at either 9-4 or 10-3, a fair number of people will watch the game (at least on TV, more than most of our games), any stats count in the record book, etc., etc.
If only games working toward either a national or conference championship count, then Stanford hasn't played a meaningful game by the mathematics since UW beat ×ÉÉ and WSU beat Arizona on November 5; and more realistically any game post-Colorado. Personally, I kind of like that the season kept going after that.
On the other hand, it is pretty clear that is not the opinion of McCaffrey and thus I would suspect at least some fraction of the team. So - what do I know?
+1. It's an argument I really don't get. In fact you can state that essentially all college football games save and except those few which have national championship meaning are "exhibition games" using the same logic.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - lex24 - 12-23-2016
(12-19-2016, 10:04 AM)CTcard link Wrote:I at least sort of take issue with all the comments that this is a meaningless, exhibition game.
I don't see why it is any more meaningless than most of the team's games. They keep score, Stanford's final record for the season will end up at either 9-4 or 10-3, a fair number of people will watch the game (at least on TV, more than most of our games), any stats count in the record book, etc., etc.
If only games working toward either a national or conference championship count, then Stanford hasn't played a meaningful game by the mathematics since UW beat ×ÉÉ and WSU beat Arizona on November 5; and more realistically any game post-Colorado. Personally, I kind of like that the season kept going after that.
On the other hand, it is pretty clear that is not the opinion of McCaffrey and thus I would suspect at least some fraction of the team. So - what do I know?
+1. It's an argument I really don't get. In fact you can state that essentially all college football games save and except those few which have national championship meaning are "exhibition games" using the same logic.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-23-2016
(12-23-2016, 12:06 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:Nothing very surprising, but a good summary of how the NFL likely views players skipping bowl games.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/this-is-how-nfl-teams-view-players-like-leonard-fournette-and-christian-mccaffrey-who-skip-bowl-games-183937558.html
"Some [coaches] will never really buy it because the first bottom-line reaction is its selfish."
"[Fournette and McCaffrey] will definitely get some red-assed questions in [team] interviews, but I dont think it will really hurt either very much. Especially Leonard Fournette.
"The common theme: While early departures may leave college programs and their fan bases seething, it means little in the bottom-line equation of NFL franchises. Particularly if it involves a player the caliber of Fournette, who is being viewed in some quarters as an anchor running back like Ezekiel Elliott."
"Hes probably going to sit the rest of the season because of concussion [concerns]. Thats probably smart by the Panthers. If were fair to Fournette, we have to say, This kid is being smart about the long-term picture. For lesser guys who still have something to prove, maybe its not smart. But for Fournette and probably McCaffrey, theyll be fine."
"One that essentially puts Fournette on solid ground, McCaffrey on mostly stable footing, but will be more complicated for guys like Walker and Linwood."
All interesting. Of course, the proof is in the pudding. We'll see when he gets drafted.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Mick - 12-23-2016
(12-23-2016, 12:06 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:Nothing very surprising, but a good summary of how the NFL likely views players skipping bowl games.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/this-is-how-nfl-teams-view-players-like-leonard-fournette-and-christian-mccaffrey-who-skip-bowl-games-183937558.html
"Some [coaches] will never really buy it because the first bottom-line reaction is its selfish."
"[Fournette and McCaffrey] will definitely get some red-assed questions in [team] interviews, but I dont think it will really hurt either very much. Especially Leonard Fournette.
"The common theme: While early departures may leave college programs and their fan bases seething, it means little in the bottom-line equation of NFL franchises. Particularly if it involves a player the caliber of Fournette, who is being viewed in some quarters as an anchor running back like Ezekiel Elliott."
"Hes probably going to sit the rest of the season because of concussion [concerns]. Thats probably smart by the Panthers. If were fair to Fournette, we have to say, This kid is being smart about the long-term picture. For lesser guys who still have something to prove, maybe its not smart. But for Fournette and probably McCaffrey, theyll be fine."
"One that essentially puts Fournette on solid ground, McCaffrey on mostly stable footing, but will be more complicated for guys like Walker and Linwood."
All interesting. Of course, the proof is in the pudding. We'll see when he gets drafted.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - needle - 12-23-2016
Interesting statement from Elijah Hood, the UNC running back who will not be playing in the Sun Bowl but will return to college next year.
Quote:Im disappointed I cannot be with my football brothers for the bowl game in Texas, but its best for me to stay home and fully recover, Hood said in a statement. I look forward to returning to the field in 2017 for my senior year and having the opportunity to represent UNC along with my teammates.
I appreciate Coach (Larry) Fedora and the staff for helping me make the best decision for my future.
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article122496504.html#storylink=cpy
Reading between the lines, it seems Hood might have played if deemed necessary. To me, this is another data point that players (and perhaps coaches) do not see the Sun Bowl as that big of a game.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - needle - 12-23-2016
Interesting statement from Elijah Hood, the UNC running back who will not be playing in the Sun Bowl but will return to college next year.
Quote:Im disappointed I cannot be with my football brothers for the bowl game in Texas, but its best for me to stay home and fully recover, Hood said in a statement. I look forward to returning to the field in 2017 for my senior year and having the opportunity to represent UNC along with my teammates.
I appreciate Coach (Larry) Fedora and the staff for helping me make the best decision for my future.
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article122496504.html#storylink=cpy
Reading between the lines, it seems Hood might have played if deemed necessary. To me, this is another data point that players (and perhaps coaches) do not see the Sun Bowl as that big of a game.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Card Fan in OR - 12-23-2016
It appears to me this thread is getting tired, and I wanted to wait until then to ask my question. It is a counterfactual question, so, of course, we can never know the answer definitively. It is also an "analogy" of sorts--or at least applying a question to different times, individuals, positions, recent bowl histories, etc. I am well away of the differences between 1982 and 2016. However, I think the essence is close enough--perhaps very close.
If the 1982 Big Game were properly officiated the final score would have been Us, 20; them 19. John Elway was about as certain a number 1 draft pick as there was, so playing in the Hall of Fame Classic could not have improved his draft position. There was no upside to his playing, only downside.
Question: Would John Elway have played in the HoF Classic? Yes/No?
To me--using a double negative--it is beyond inconceivable that J. Elway would NOT have played, so my answer is "Yes." Others?
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Card Fan in OR - 12-23-2016
It appears to me this thread is getting tired, and I wanted to wait until then to ask my question. It is a counterfactual question, so, of course, we can never know the answer definitively. It is also an "analogy" of sorts--or at least applying a question to different times, individuals, positions, recent bowl histories, etc. I am well away of the differences between 1982 and 2016. However, I think the essence is close enough--perhaps very close.
If the 1982 Big Game were properly officiated the final score would have been Us, 20; them 19. John Elway was about as certain a number 1 draft pick as there was, so playing in the Hall of Fame Classic could not have improved his draft position. There was no upside to his playing, only downside.
Question: Would John Elway have played in the HoF Classic? Yes/No?
To me--using a double negative--it is beyond inconceivable that J. Elway would NOT have played, so my answer is "Yes." Others?
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - CornFed - 12-23-2016
(12-23-2016, 01:45 PM)Card Fan in OR link Wrote:"It is a counterfactual question, so, of course, we can never know the answer definitively."
This is, of course, right up our collective alley. This could add another 20 pages to this thread, easily.
Elway was playing in a different era and I'm not sure it would even OCCUR to a player in those circumstances not to play. If Elway were in that position today, I would speculate that he would play. It would be much closer to a toss-up, however.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - CornFed - 12-23-2016
(12-23-2016, 01:45 PM)Card Fan in OR link Wrote:"It is a counterfactual question, so, of course, we can never know the answer definitively."
This is, of course, right up our collective alley. This could add another 20 pages to this thread, easily.
Elway was playing in a different era and I'm not sure it would even OCCUR to a player in those circumstances not to play. If Elway were in that position today, I would speculate that he would play. It would be much closer to a toss-up, however.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - TreesAndBirds - 12-23-2016
Well Elway basically refused to show up after drafted by the Colts (yes he theoretically had the baseball alternative), so Elway certainly wasnt averse to challenging the accepted norms if in his personal best interest, which makes me think he would understand CM's decision more than most.
That said, Elway and his teammates had never been to a bowl, so I think the situation was different.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - TreesAndBirds - 12-23-2016
Well Elway basically refused to show up after drafted by the Colts (yes he theoretically had the baseball alternative), so Elway certainly wasnt averse to challenging the accepted norms if in his personal best interest, which makes me think he would understand CM's decision more than most.
That said, Elway and his teammates had never been to a bowl, so I think the situation was different.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-23-2016
Quote:All interesting. Of course, the proof is in the pudding. We'll see when he gets drafted.
Except we'll never know where he would have been drafted had he chosen to play.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - FarmBoy - 12-23-2016
Quote:All interesting. Of course, the proof is in the pudding. We'll see when he gets drafted.
Except we'll never know where he would have been drafted had he chosen to play.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - 81alum - 12-23-2016
(12-23-2016, 02:01 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:Well Elway basically refused to show up after drafted by the Colts (yes he theoretically had the baseball alternative), so Elway certainly wasnt averse to challenging the accepted norms if in his personal best interest, which makes me think he would understand CM's decision more than most.Elway's refusal to play for the Colts was due to his disgust with Frank Kush. Kush had been coach at Arizona State during Elway's early college career, where he made news by punching his punter in the mouth. The Stanford Band had quite a time with Kush, as I recall :) But after Kush was sued and fired, he somehow wound up at Baltimore. Elway was adamant that he would rather play baseball for a year (or more) rather than be coached by that man. I thought at the time that his holdout was principled. I don't see the comparison with the present situation.
That said, Elway and his teammates had never been to a bowl, so I think the situation was different.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - 81alum - 12-23-2016
(12-23-2016, 02:01 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:Well Elway basically refused to show up after drafted by the Colts (yes he theoretically had the baseball alternative), so Elway certainly wasnt averse to challenging the accepted norms if in his personal best interest, which makes me think he would understand CM's decision more than most.Elway's refusal to play for the Colts was due to his disgust with Frank Kush. Kush had been coach at Arizona State during Elway's early college career, where he made news by punching his punter in the mouth. The Stanford Band had quite a time with Kush, as I recall :) But after Kush was sued and fired, he somehow wound up at Baltimore. Elway was adamant that he would rather play baseball for a year (or more) rather than be coached by that man. I thought at the time that his holdout was principled. I don't see the comparison with the present situation.
That said, Elway and his teammates had never been to a bowl, so I think the situation was different.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - TreesAndBirds - 12-23-2016
81alum, Well Im not a fan of Frank Kush, but I note he was found not liable in the ensuing lawsuit and was subsequently inducted into the college football hall of fame.
We'll just differ. I find significant similarities between what Elway and CM did.....famous fathers well connected in football whose sons were stars at Stanford and decided with parental advice to break with the norms of football and take actions that they felt were in their own best interests.
Of course their are differences. And I understand you think Elway was principled and CM wasnt.
Perhaps my bigger picture comment is that there is some history of Stanford guys breaking the norms, including J. Martin standing up to bullying and J. Collins standing up to homophobia. I dont think it's coincidence. And I'm not saying they are "morally" the same, but the willingness to break with norms is a common thread.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - TreesAndBirds - 12-23-2016
81alum, Well Im not a fan of Frank Kush, but I note he was found not liable in the ensuing lawsuit and was subsequently inducted into the college football hall of fame.
We'll just differ. I find significant similarities between what Elway and CM did.....famous fathers well connected in football whose sons were stars at Stanford and decided with parental advice to break with the norms of football and take actions that they felt were in their own best interests.
Of course their are differences. And I understand you think Elway was principled and CM wasnt.
Perhaps my bigger picture comment is that there is some history of Stanford guys breaking the norms, including J. Martin standing up to bullying and J. Collins standing up to homophobia. I dont think it's coincidence. And I'm not saying they are "morally" the same, but the willingness to break with norms is a common thread.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - DC 86 - 12-23-2016
(12-23-2016, 02:16 PM)FarmBoy link Wrote:Exactly. If he runs a 4.6 40 and measures at 5-10, 190 then a poor draft position won't be due to his refusal to play in the Sun Bowl, despite some people wishing it to be so.Quote:All interesting. Of course, the proof is in the pudding. We'll see when he gets drafted.
Except we'll never know where he would have been drafted had he chosen to play.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - DC 86 - 12-23-2016
(12-23-2016, 02:16 PM)FarmBoy link Wrote:Exactly. If he runs a 4.6 40 and measures at 5-10, 190 then a poor draft position won't be due to his refusal to play in the Sun Bowl, despite some people wishing it to be so.Quote:All interesting. Of course, the proof is in the pudding. We'll see when he gets drafted.
Except we'll never know where he would have been drafted had he chosen to play.