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RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 04-28-2023
(04-28-2023, 04:25 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Ya, I think it’s generally correct that though Duke has seemed to have the players with more acclaim, Kentucky’s top players, even if they maybe weren’t as renowned in college, have overall been better in the NBA than Duke’s seemingly more hyped guys.
Think it has to do with the media love fest with K that it didn’t have with Calipari.
Atlanta had a real shot to force a Game 7, The Celtics just got hot over the last few minutes while the Hawks went ice cold. The C’s look like the best team to me, but they also allowed the Hawks to stay in the series way longer than it seems they should have.
I’m going with Warriors and Grizzlies to win Game 6 Friday night. I’m wondering if Kings bench Huerter in favor of Monk who has a better net rating than Huerter. The Kings are looking like they have fewer players they can rely on than the W’s. Fox, Barnes, Murray, Sabonis, and then who? Monk or Mitchell, that’s an O/D choice.
By contrast, Warriors have more guys who can play: Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Poole, Green, Looney, GP2, DDV can all play 10+ mins. Most of those guys are 2-way players, and even Poole has been better on D lately. I wonder if Kuminga will be given another shot tonight, or if he has played himself out of the playoffs.
Most fascinating thing about these games to me is how the 3pt shooting percentages have been eerily similar for both teams on a per game basis. The last two games were almost identical, Game 4 41% and Game 5 about 29%. The W’s are the better 3pt shooting team for the series but only by 3%. The W’s were #2 in NBA regular season, so they have a good chance to shoot better from 3 and win Game 6, IMO.
Playoff series to me are all one offs. Adjustments etc. Murray did nothing first few games. Brown stuck with him. He has been very good last couple. Heuter has struggled. But if he hits a 3 early that could change. So, I doubt that Brown starts Monk. First, starting is somewhat overrated. Whose in at stretch time is the bigger factor. Second, he needs Heuter. He will get minutes. If he continues his struggles, he probably won’t see much time in second half. Third, Monk is a terrific sixth man instant offense type.
Biggest issue to me is Fox’s finger. It definitely bothered him as game wore on.
Been a good series. Difference to me is Warriors are the much better defensive team.
Tough to beat a good team 4 straight. I would not be surprised to see Kings win tonight. I expect they will come out flying.
Weather the storm. Keep it close. Warriors experience advantage shows up in last few minutes. Course, I thought that would be the case in game 4……
One potential factor: Warriors are much older team. Games 3-5 had two days rest in between each game. Which I thought was a big help to the Warriors. Now they only get one day off. That could make a little bit of a difference. Particularly given minutes Curry has played.
RE: NBA Discussion - cardcrimson - 04-28-2023
Biggest surprise of the NBA postseason so far? The advertisements for American Idol. Seriously, who knew that show was still on the air?
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 04-28-2023
(04-28-2023, 05:36 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: Biggest surprise of the NBA postseason so far? The advertisements for American Idol. Seriously, who knew that show was still on the air?
According to Google 8.1 million last week. I kind of think we ain’t their demographic…..
RE: NBA Discussion - cardcrimson - 04-28-2023
W's look old, slow, tired and confused tonight. Really, really bad turnovers. Getting blocked. Etc.
McKenwood - McKenwood - 04-28-2023
(04-28-2023, 07:23 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: W's look old, slow, tired and confused tonight. Really, really bad turnovers. Getting blocked.Right on. Moody showed up but really no one else. Free Kuminga! This iso ball stuff needs to stop.
Etc.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 04-28-2023
That might be the worst performance the Warriors have had in this dynasty. Even losing by 50 or whatever to Memphis in Game 5 last year wasn’t as bad because of the context.
Just perplexing how unfocused the effort and terrible the shot selection was and how brain dead the veterans were. They had 33 assists in Game 5, just 20 in Game 6.
Gotta say I’d like to see Grizzlies and Kings more than I want to see Warriors and Lakers. That would be one seriously fun series.
RE: McKenwood - lex24 - 04-28-2023
(04-28-2023, 07:44 PM)McKenwood Wrote:(04-28-2023, 07:23 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: W's look old, slow, tired and confused tonight. Really, really bad turnovers. Getting blocked.Right on. Moody showed up but really no one else. Free Kuminga! This iso ball stuff needs to stop.
Etc.
What iso stuff? No team passes and cuts more than the Warriors. As for Kuminga, he hasn’t earned Kerr’s trust.
They got whomped. Sac played better, shot better, defended better. Forget it and move on. Warriors have the experience advantage. Kings the advantage of being younger. Should be a fun game 7.
RE: NBA Discussion - French Rage - 04-28-2023
They assumed because they won game 5 they would automatically win game 6. They didn't show up. Now they have to win game 7.
RE: NBA Discussion - old spanish trail - 04-28-2023
Yep, they looked disinterested and, unfortunately, old. Curry iffy, Klay good early then faded, Greene 4 pts maybe, Wiggins 0-9 into the third qtr., Poole fairly useless, Dante's worst game, Looney pretty good.
RE: NBA Discussion - CompSci87 - 04-28-2023
Not exactly ISO, but trying to drive to the basket like in game 5 even though apparently Sacramento had made an adjustment and weren't giving up points in the paint so easily anymore.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 04-29-2023
Hard to pin the W’s limp effort on being old when the young Grizzlies got curb stomped by the old Lakers. I think the Warriors were genuinely terrified of Game 7 in Memphis last year and played with commensurate focused urgency. They don’t feel quite the same way about a bus ride to Sacramento and they didn’t have focus or urgency in Game 6. The early turnovers and fouling were the same problems that plagued this team all season. Then a weak bench contribution; outscored 52-21.
I was perplexed why GP2 played so little and why they didn’t immediately get him in the game when Kings went small.
It’s funny seeing W’s fans clamoring for Kuminga to play more when the coaches obviously don’t think he is up to the challenge. It’s not to like he’s all of a sudden gonna be the difference between winning and losing.
Moody probably does need to get more minutes, but if Wiggins and Thompson are so poor, it hardly matters who is on the floor.
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 04-29-2023
Sometimes you just get beat. Sac was the best road team in NBA. Also the highest scoring team in quite a while. They were terrific offensively and played their best defensive game of the series. And, they were better with Sabonis off the floor. Went small, five out spread the floor and attacked, Be interesting to see if Brown goes to that lineup - with Lyles replacing Sabonis more- even if Sabonis not in foul trouble.
As for Warriors, it’s about turnovers and rebounding. They generally turn it over a fair amount. But it’s the careless ones that get them. They had several.
Also, Poole was horrible. He’s usually bad defensively, so he has to contribute heavily on offense. He was out of control most of the game. When he plays like that, he’s a liability.
Game. 7. If I’m Kerr I’m going back to Draymond and Looney being on the floor together more. They can’t let Sac get as many second shots. Sac had 18 offensive boards. 13 more shots. W’s have to defend better. I also have a fairly short leash with Poole. DD at least gives defense and high end energy.
I’m picking Warriors experience over Kings youth.
(04-28-2023, 11:19 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: Not exactly ISO, but trying to drive to the basket like in game 5 even though apparently Sacramento had made an adjustment and weren't giving up points in the paint so easily anymore.
You still have to attack. Problem early was they failed to finish. I remember at least 4 times when someone drove and instead of trying to finish, dropped a pass to Looney. He does so many things well. Scoring is not one of them.
RE: NBA Discussion - McKenwood - 04-29-2023
(04-28-2023, 11:19 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: Not exactly ISO, but trying to drive to the basket like in game 5 even though apparently Sacramento had made an adjustment and weren't giving up points in the paint so easily anymore.
Iso or hero ball whatever you want to call it the Warriors were playing it. If your ballhandler is getting blitzed as he crosses halfcourt you need to make the passes necessary for a dunk. This would have been a good game to unleash Kuminga who is one of the few Warriors who can attack the rim and make the other team pay. Warriors only had 20 assists, half of them by Draymond.
Kerr also needs to sit guys that are not producing. Cesspoole and Klay (-28!) were not getting it done. Moody should have played more.
The contrast with the Lakers is stark. A first year head coach integrates a bunch of new players midseason (Hachimura, Russell, Vanderbilt) and turns around the season. By contrast Myers/Kerr are unwilling to get the players they need because they are not sure Kerr can integrate them into the Warriors system. Kuminga and Moody should be much bigger players in the rotation at this point but Kerr pushed for Payton to rejoin the team so he wouldn't have to play them. Kerr is great with veteran players but cannot get the younger players to produce.
RE: NBA Discussion - gailtate - 04-29-2023
I pick youth over experience at Golden1 Center. Kings don't play like a "young" team or an inexperienced one. Dubs have been there before, of course, but with fresher legs. Kerr will be at his wiliest but this won't be enough.
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 04-29-2023
(04-29-2023, 08:20 AM)McKenwood Wrote:(04-28-2023, 11:19 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: Not exactly ISO, but trying to drive to the basket like in game 5 even though apparently Sacramento had made an adjustment and weren't giving up points in the paint so easily anymore.
Iso or hero ball whatever you want to call it the Warriors were playing it. If your ballhandler is getting blitzed as he crosses halfcourt you need to make the passes necessary for a dunk. This would have been a good game to unleash Kuminga who is one of the few Warriors who can attack the rim and make the other team pay. Warriors only had 20 assists, half of them by Draymond.
Kerr also needs to sit guys that are not producing. Cesspoole and Klay (-28!) were not getting it done. Moody should have played more.
The contrast with the Lakers is stark. A first year head coach integrates a bunch of new players midseason (Hachimura, Russell, Vanderbilt) and turns around the season. By contrast Myers/Kerr are unwilling to get the players they need because they are not sure Kerr can integrate them into the Warriors system. Kuminga and Moody should be much bigger players in the rotation at this point but Kerr pushed for Payton to rejoin the team so he wouldn't have to play them. Kerr is great with veteran players but cannot get the younger players to produce.
Yes, Kerr does not know what he’s doing. He only has 9 rings as a player and coach. He plays the veterans cause they make fewer mistakes. And they are his best players. They have a core that’s won 4 Championships. That time is coming to an end.
They will, in all likelihood, start transitioning next year. But he’s going to ride Curry, Green, Klay and Looney as long as he can. As he should. They are, need I remind you, the defending Champs. And frankly, they had no business winning it last year.
Kuminga may be a good player someday. He is not right now. An occasional spectacular dunk notwithstanding.
As for Wiseman, to whom you offhandedly refer with the Payton comment, you are kidding, right? He was a liability everytime he was on the floor. Again, someday he may be a good player. But he was a project. And when you are playing for championships as opposed to rebuilding, you don’t have the luxury of playing a project. Myers made a mistake drafting him. He doesn’t make many.
They got Payton back cause they wanted to improve their defense. Something they needed to do. Kuminga isn’t going to address that need. He gets lost defensively.
RE: NBA Discussion - McKenwood - 04-29-2023
(04-29-2023, 08:55 AM)lex24 Wrote:(04-29-2023, 08:20 AM)McKenwood Wrote:(04-28-2023, 11:19 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: Not exactly ISO, but trying to drive to the basket like in game 5 even though apparently Sacramento had made an adjustment and weren't giving up points in the paint so easily anymore.
Iso or hero ball whatever you want to call it the Warriors were playing it. If your ballhandler is getting blitzed as he crosses halfcourt you need to make the passes necessary for a dunk. This would have been a good game to unleash Kuminga who is one of the few Warriors who can attack the rim and make the other team pay. Warriors only had 20 assists, half of them by Draymond.
Kerr also needs to sit guys that are not producing. Cesspoole and Klay (-28!) were not getting it done. Moody should have played more.
The contrast with the Lakers is stark. A first year head coach integrates a bunch of new players midseason (Hachimura, Russell, Vanderbilt) and turns around the season. By contrast Myers/Kerr are unwilling to get the players they need because they are not sure Kerr can integrate them into the Warriors system. Kuminga and Moody should be much bigger players in the rotation at this point but Kerr pushed for Payton to rejoin the team so he wouldn't have to play them. Kerr is great with veteran players but cannot get the younger players to produce.
Yes, Kerr does not know what he’s doing. He only has 9 rings as a player and coach. He plays the veterans cause they make fewer mistakes. And they are his best players. They have a core that’s won 4 Championships. That time is coming to an end.
They will, in all likelihood, start transitioning next year. But he’s going to ride Curry, Green, Klay and Looney as long as he can. As he should. They are, need I remind you, the defending Champs. And frankly, they had no business winning it last year.
Kuminga may be a good player someday. He is not right now. An occasional spectacular dunk notwithstanding.
As for Wiseman, to whom you offhandedly refer with the Payton comment, you are kidding, right? He was a liability everytime he was on the floor. Again, someday he may be a good player. But he was a project. And when you are playing for championships as opposed to rebuilding, you don’t have the luxury of playing a project. Myers made a mistake drafting him. He doesn’t make many.
They got Payton back cause they wanted to improve their defense. Something they needed to do. Kuminga isn’t going to address that need. He gets lost defensively.
I stand by my comments. The Warriors are an older bunch that needs a strong second group to thrive as a team. Kerr wasn't able to develop that group with regression of Poole being at the forefront. Kuminga has the defensive skills to be a high-level defender. Kerr didn't acomplish that this season. Based solely on recent perfomance Moody and DiVencenzo should be getting much more in the way of minutes with Poole and Thompson sitting.
Instead of Payton they could have gotten Jared Vanderbilt (more favorable contract) or Saddiq Bey (part of the Wiseman merry go round) both contributors on playoff teams.
Kerr has not been adaptable when things don't go right. Contrast with Mike Brown in game 6 who used Lyles instead of Len and even sat Sabonis for extended stretches. Ironically Kerr's best coaching came when he didn't have Draymond or Payton in game 5 and he was forced to use Moody, Kuminga and the other bench players who match up better with Sacramento than Poole or Klay.
Of course Kerr has a great track record. And he is entitled to a lot of leeway. But I've seen this movie before (Shaw, Bochy) where the failure to adapt or continue with ways that worked five years ago leads you right off a cliff. If the W's decide to move on from Draymond and Kaly they probably need a new coach in order to develop the next generation.
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 04-29-2023
(04-29-2023, 09:36 AM)McKenwood Wrote:(04-29-2023, 08:55 AM)lex24 Wrote:(04-29-2023, 08:20 AM)McKenwood Wrote:(04-28-2023, 11:19 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: Not exactly ISO, but trying to drive to the basket like in game 5 even though apparently Sacramento had made an adjustment and weren't giving up points in the paint so easily anymore.
Iso or hero ball whatever you want to call it the Warriors were playing it. If your ballhandler is getting blitzed as he crosses halfcourt you need to make the passes necessary for a dunk. This would have been a good game to unleash Kuminga who is one of the few Warriors who can attack the rim and make the other team pay. Warriors only had 20 assists, half of them by Draymond.
Kerr also needs to sit guys that are not producing. Cesspoole and Klay (-28!) were not getting it done. Moody should have played more.
The contrast with the Lakers is stark. A first year head coach integrates a bunch of new players midseason (Hachimura, Russell, Vanderbilt) and turns around the season. By contrast Myers/Kerr are unwilling to get the players they need because they are not sure Kerr can integrate them into the Warriors system. Kuminga and Moody should be much bigger players in the rotation at this point but Kerr pushed for Payton to rejoin the team so he wouldn't have to play them. Kerr is great with veteran players but cannot get the younger players to produce.
Yes, Kerr does not know what he’s doing. He only has 9 rings as a player and coach. He plays the veterans cause they make fewer mistakes. And they are his best players. They have a core that’s won 4 Championships. That time is coming to an end.
They will, in all likelihood, start transitioning next year. But he’s going to ride Curry, Green, Klay and Looney as long as he can. As he should. They are, need I remind you, the defending Champs. And frankly, they had no business winning it last year.
Kuminga may be a good player someday. He is not right now. An occasional spectacular dunk notwithstanding.
As for Wiseman, to whom you offhandedly refer with the Payton comment, you are kidding, right? He was a liability everytime he was on the floor. Again, someday he may be a good player. But he was a project. And when you are playing for championships as opposed to rebuilding, you don’t have the luxury of playing a project. Myers made a mistake drafting him. He doesn’t make many.
They got Payton back cause they wanted to improve their defense. Something they needed to do. Kuminga isn’t going to address that need. He gets lost defensively.
I stand by my comments. The Warriors are an older bunch that needs a strong second group to thrive as a team. Kerr wasn't able to develop that group with regression of Poole being at the forefront. Kuminga has the defensive skills to be a high-level defender. Kerr didn't acomplish that this season. Based solely on recent perfomance Moody and DiVencenzo should be getting much more in the way of minutes with Poole and Thompson sitting.
Instead of Payton they could have gotten Jared Vanderbilt (more favorable contract) or Saddiq Bey (part of the Wiseman merry go round) both contributors on playoff teams.
Kerr has not been adaptable when things don't go right. Contrast with Mike Brown in game 6 who used Lyles instead of Len and even sat Sabonis for extended stretches. Ironically Kerr's best coaching came when he didn't have Draymond or Payton in game 5 and he was forced to use Moody, Kuminga and the other bench players who match up better with Sacramento than Poole or Klay.
Of course Kerr has a great track record. And he is entitled to a lot of leeway. But I've seen this movie before (Shaw, Bochy) where the failure to adapt or continue with ways that worked five years ago leads you right off a cliff. If the W's decide to move on from Draymond and Kaly they probably need a new coach in order to develop the next generation.
Thompson sitting? He’s their second best scoring option. And while no longer a shut down defender, he’s not a defensive liability. He’s a key cog on 4 championships. He’s averaging over 20 a game in this series.
As for picking up Vanderbilt or Bey, unless you are privy to negotiations, you have no idea what they tried to or what, given salary constraints, they could have done.
The analogy to Shaw is misplaced. The Warriors have not gone 15-67 the last few years. Five years ago? They won it last year.
The Warriors will pivot when they have to. Probably next year given contact issues with Klay and Draymond.
As for a “strong second group” - generally it’s an 8-9 man rotation come playoffs. Curry, Dray, Klay, Looney, Wiggins, Poole, DD, Payton. If you go 9, Moody. Who’s given them some decent minutes. Offensively at least. He’s not going deeper than that in this series unless he has to (foul trouble, injuries ). Nor should he.
As for game 5 Kuminga did not play. Moody got 4 minutes. Klay had 26. To be fair, you must have meant game 3. Yes, no Draymond. So, Kuminga gets some minutes. But do you actually think Kerr is going to sit Green for Kuminga?
Few final comments. First, there was some development for Kuminga year. But he’s 20 and raw. I suspect you will see him on the floor more next year. Benches get shorter in the playoffs.
As for Brown - he’s done a great job. But he’s in a completely different position. He’s got a young team that’s never been here before. Kerr has a core of veterans. This is probably their last hurrah. I didn’t and don’t expect them to get deep in the playoffs. But if I’m Kerr, I’m riding with these guys. If they crash and burn, so be it. They’ve proved their mettle. And they’ve earned the chance to finish this run. One way or the other.
Finally, on development of young players, that is an open question. Poole drives ne nuts. But he certainly improved dramatically from when he was a rookie - shuttling between Warriors and SC. Kuminga and Moody were in ‘21 draft. 7 and 14. Takes time. And the 14th pick is by no means a sure thing. I think both Kuminga and Moody improved from their rookie years. Moving forward, as the team transitions, we will get a better picture of how Kerr and Co do developing young players.
And who knows, maybe Kuminga plays game 7 and makes a positive contribution. If so, I’ll tip my hat….
RE: NBA Discussion - McKenwood - 04-29-2023
(04-29-2023, 10:06 AM)lex24 Wrote:(04-29-2023, 09:36 AM)McKenwood Wrote:(04-29-2023, 08:55 AM)lex24 Wrote:(04-29-2023, 08:20 AM)McKenwood Wrote:(04-28-2023, 11:19 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: Not exactly ISO, but trying to drive to the basket like in game 5 even though apparently Sacramento had made an adjustment and weren't giving up points in the paint so easily anymore.
Iso or hero ball whatever you want to call it the Warriors were playing it. If your ballhandler is getting blitzed as he crosses halfcourt you need to make the passes necessary for a dunk. This would have been a good game to unleash Kuminga who is one of the few Warriors who can attack the rim and make the other team pay. Warriors only had 20 assists, half of them by Draymond.
Kerr also needs to sit guys that are not producing. Cesspoole and Klay (-28!) were not getting it done. Moody should have played more.
The contrast with the Lakers is stark. A first year head coach integrates a bunch of new players midseason (Hachimura, Russell, Vanderbilt) and turns around the season. By contrast Myers/Kerr are unwilling to get the players they need because they are not sure Kerr can integrate them into the Warriors system. Kuminga and Moody should be much bigger players in the rotation at this point but Kerr pushed for Payton to rejoin the team so he wouldn't have to play them. Kerr is great with veteran players but cannot get the younger players to produce.
Yes, Kerr does not know what he’s doing. He only has 9 rings as a player and coach. He plays the veterans cause they make fewer mistakes. And they are his best players. They have a core that’s won 4 Championships. That time is coming to an end.
They will, in all likelihood, start transitioning next year. But he’s going to ride Curry, Green, Klay and Looney as long as he can. As he should. They are, need I remind you, the defending Champs. And frankly, they had no business winning it last year.
Kuminga may be a good player someday. He is not right now. An occasional spectacular dunk notwithstanding.
As for Wiseman, to whom you offhandedly refer with the Payton comment, you are kidding, right? He was a liability everytime he was on the floor. Again, someday he may be a good player. But he was a project. And when you are playing for championships as opposed to rebuilding, you don’t have the luxury of playing a project. Myers made a mistake drafting him. He doesn’t make many.
They got Payton back cause they wanted to improve their defense. Something they needed to do. Kuminga isn’t going to address that need. He gets lost defensively.
I stand by my comments. The Warriors are an older bunch that needs a strong second group to thrive as a team. Kerr wasn't able to develop that group with regression of Poole being at the forefront. Kuminga has the defensive skills to be a high-level defender. Kerr didn't acomplish that this season. Based solely on recent perfomance Moody and DiVencenzo should be getting much more in the way of minutes with Poole and Thompson sitting.
Instead of Payton they could have gotten Jared Vanderbilt (more favorable contract) or Saddiq Bey (part of the Wiseman merry go round) both contributors on playoff teams.
Kerr has not been adaptable when things don't go right. Contrast with Mike Brown in game 6 who used Lyles instead of Len and even sat Sabonis for extended stretches. Ironically Kerr's best coaching came when he didn't have Draymond or Payton in game 5 and he was forced to use Moody, Kuminga and the other bench players who match up better with Sacramento than Poole or Klay.
Of course Kerr has a great track record. And he is entitled to a lot of leeway. But I've seen this movie before (Shaw, Bochy) where the failure to adapt or continue with ways that worked five years ago leads you right off a cliff. If the W's decide to move on from Draymond and Kaly they probably need a new coach in order to develop the next generation.
Thompson sitting? He’s their second best scoring option. And while no longer a shut down defender, he’s not a defensive liability. He’s a key cog on 4 championships. He’s averaging over 20 a game in this series.
As for picking up Vanderbilt or Bey, unless you are privy to negotiations, you have no idea what they tried to or what, given salary constraints, they could have done.
The analogy to Shaw is misplaced. The Warriors have not gone 15-67 the last few years. Five years ago? They won it last year.
The Warriors will pivot when they have to. Probably next year given contact issues with Klay and Draymond.
As for a “strong second group” - generally it’s an 8-9 man rotation come playoffs. Curry, Dray, Klay, Looney, Wiggins, Poole, DD, Payton. If you go 9, Moody. Who’s given them some decent minutes. Offensively at least. He’s not going deeper than that in this series unless he has to (foul trouble, injuries ). Nor should he.
As for game 5 Kuminga did not play. Moody got 4 minutes. Klay had 26. To be fair, you must have meant game 3. Yes, no Draymond. So, Kuminga gets some minutes. But do you actually think Kerr is going to sit Green for Kuminga?
Few final comments. First, there was some development for Kuminga year. But he’s 20 and raw. I suspect you will see him on the floor more next year. Benches get shorter in the playoffs.
As for Brown - he’s done a great job. But he’s in a completely different position. He’s got a young team that’s never been here before. Kerr has a core of veterans. This is probably their last hurrah. I didn’t and don’t expect them to get deep in the playoffs. But if I’m Kerr, I’m riding with these guys. If they crash and burn, so be it. They’ve proved their mettle. And they’ve earned the chance to finish this run. One way or the other.
Finally, on development of young players, that is an open question. Poole drives ne nuts. But he certainly improved dramatically from when he was a rookie - shuttling between Warriors and SC. Kuminga and Moody were in ‘21 draft. 7 and 14. Takes time. And the 14th pick is by no means a sure thing. I think both Kuminga and Moody improved from their rookie years. Moving forward, as the team transitions, we will get a better picture of how Kerr and Co do developing young players.
And who knows, maybe Kuminga plays game 7 and makes a positive contribution. If so, I’ll tip my hat….
Good catch Lex. I meant Game 3 when Kerr was short personnel he did an excellent job of integrating his bench players including Moody and Kuminga.
Thompson is still a high level player but it takes a lot out of him to play both ways. Last night was a good example where his effectiveness diminished as the game went on.
I realize this is Game 7 and the temptation is to ride or die with the players that have brought you to this point but I can see a need to substitute more liberally in order to have a shot in Q4 with your veterans. 43 hour turnaround. Probably a (big) advantage for the Kings.
And sure the Warriors won the title last year but what about the seasons since they lost the title in 2019 (where Kerr got outcoached by another first year coach Nick Nourse)?
RE: NBA Discussion - g1313 - 04-29-2023
(04-29-2023, 12:53 PM)McKenwood Wrote:
And sure the Warriors won the title last year but what about the seasons since they lost the title in 2019 (where Kerr got outcoached by another first year coach Nick Nourse)?
You mean the series where KD missed the first floor games and then suffered a season ending injury in game 5? And Klay missed game 3 and got hurt in game 6? We're blaming Kerr for that?
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 04-29-2023
(04-29-2023, 12:53 PM)McKenwood Wrote:(04-29-2023, 10:06 AM)lex24 Wrote:(04-29-2023, 09:36 AM)McKenwood Wrote:(04-29-2023, 08:55 AM)lex24 Wrote:(04-29-2023, 08:20 AM)McKenwood Wrote: Iso or hero ball whatever you want to call it the Warriors were playing it. If your ballhandler is getting blitzed as he crosses halfcourt you need to make the passes necessary for a dunk. This would have been a good game to unleash Kuminga who is one of the few Warriors who can attack the rim and make the other team pay. Warriors only had 20 assists, half of them by Draymond.
Kerr also needs to sit guys that are not producing. Cesspoole and Klay (-28!) were not getting it done. Moody should have played more.
The contrast with the Lakers is stark. A first year head coach integrates a bunch of new players midseason (Hachimura, Russell, Vanderbilt) and turns around the season. By contrast Myers/Kerr are unwilling to get the players they need because they are not sure Kerr can integrate them into the Warriors system. Kuminga and Moody should be much bigger players in the rotation at this point but Kerr pushed for Payton to rejoin the team so he wouldn't have to play them. Kerr is great with veteran players but cannot get the younger players to produce.
Yes, Kerr does not know what he’s doing. He only has 9 rings as a player and coach. He plays the veterans cause they make fewer mistakes. And they are his best players. They have a core that’s won 4 Championships. That time is coming to an end.
They will, in all likelihood, start transitioning next year. But he’s going to ride Curry, Green, Klay and Looney as long as he can. As he should. They are, need I remind you, the defending Champs. And frankly, they had no business winning it last year.
Kuminga may be a good player someday. He is not right now. An occasional spectacular dunk notwithstanding.
As for Wiseman, to whom you offhandedly refer with the Payton comment, you are kidding, right? He was a liability everytime he was on the floor. Again, someday he may be a good player. But he was a project. And when you are playing for championships as opposed to rebuilding, you don’t have the luxury of playing a project. Myers made a mistake drafting him. He doesn’t make many.
They got Payton back cause they wanted to improve their defense. Something they needed to do. Kuminga isn’t going to address that need. He gets lost defensively.
I stand by my comments. The Warriors are an older bunch that needs a strong second group to thrive as a team. Kerr wasn't able to develop that group with regression of Poole being at the forefront. Kuminga has the defensive skills to be a high-level defender. Kerr didn't acomplish that this season. Based solely on recent perfomance Moody and DiVencenzo should be getting much more in the way of minutes with Poole and Thompson sitting.
Instead of Payton they could have gotten Jared Vanderbilt (more favorable contract) or Saddiq Bey (part of the Wiseman merry go round) both contributors on playoff teams.
Kerr has not been adaptable when things don't go right. Contrast with Mike Brown in game 6 who used Lyles instead of Len and even sat Sabonis for extended stretches. Ironically Kerr's best coaching came when he didn't have Draymond or Payton in game 5 and he was forced to use Moody, Kuminga and the other bench players who match up better with Sacramento than Poole or Klay.
Of course Kerr has a great track record. And he is entitled to a lot of leeway. But I've seen this movie before (Shaw, Bochy) where the failure to adapt or continue with ways that worked five years ago leads you right off a cliff. If the W's decide to move on from Draymond and Kaly they probably need a new coach in order to develop the next generation.
Thompson sitting? He’s their second best scoring option. And while no longer a shut down defender, he’s not a defensive liability. He’s a key cog on 4 championships. He’s averaging over 20 a game in this series.
As for picking up Vanderbilt or Bey, unless you are privy to negotiations, you have no idea what they tried to or what, given salary constraints, they could have done.
The analogy to Shaw is misplaced. The Warriors have not gone 15-67 the last few years. Five years ago? They won it last year.
The Warriors will pivot when they have to. Probably next year given contact issues with Klay and Draymond.
As for a “strong second group” - generally it’s an 8-9 man rotation come playoffs. Curry, Dray, Klay, Looney, Wiggins, Poole, DD, Payton. If you go 9, Moody. Who’s given them some decent minutes. Offensively at least. He’s not going deeper than that in this series unless he has to (foul trouble, injuries ). Nor should he.
As for game 5 Kuminga did not play. Moody got 4 minutes. Klay had 26. To be fair, you must have meant game 3. Yes, no Draymond. So, Kuminga gets some minutes. But do you actually think Kerr is going to sit Green for Kuminga?
Few final comments. First, there was some development for Kuminga year. But he’s 20 and raw. I suspect you will see him on the floor more next year. Benches get shorter in the playoffs.
As for Brown - he’s done a great job. But he’s in a completely different position. He’s got a young team that’s never been here before. Kerr has a core of veterans. This is probably their last hurrah. I didn’t and don’t expect them to get deep in the playoffs. But if I’m Kerr, I’m riding with these guys. If they crash and burn, so be it. They’ve proved their mettle. And they’ve earned the chance to finish this run. One way or the other.
Finally, on development of young players, that is an open question. Poole drives ne nuts. But he certainly improved dramatically from when he was a rookie - shuttling between Warriors and SC. Kuminga and Moody were in ‘21 draft. 7 and 14. Takes time. And the 14th pick is by no means a sure thing. I think both Kuminga and Moody improved from their rookie years. Moving forward, as the team transitions, we will get a better picture of how Kerr and Co do developing young players.
And who knows, maybe Kuminga plays game 7 and makes a positive contribution. If so, I’ll tip my hat….
Good catch Lex. I meant Game 3 when Kerr was short personnel he did an excellent job of integrating his bench players including Moody and Kuminga.
Thompson is still a high level player but it takes a lot out of him to play both ways. Last night was a good example where his effectiveness diminished as the game went on.
I realize this is Game 7 and the temptation is to ride or die with the players that have brought you to this point but I can see a need to substitute more liberally in order to have a shot in Q4 with your veterans. 43 hour turnaround. Probably a (big) advantage for the Kings.
And sure the Warriors won the title last year but what about the seasons since they lost the title in 2019 (where Kerr got outcoached by another first year coach Nick Nourse)?
He’s won 4. How many can say that? Answer - 5. Jackson (11) Auerbach (9) John Kundla (5) Riley (5). Popovich (5). Kerr next with 4. No one else more than 2.