Outside Topic NBA Discussion - Printable Version
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leftcoast - Leftcoast - 05-01-2023
Today’s Draymond Green show is well worth the listen, even if you don’t like the guy, just for his behind the curtain description of the post game six loss locker room and Curry's response.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-draymond-green-show/id1595716948?i=1000611265261
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 05-01-2023
Here's more on the Curry speech.
https://theathletic.com/4475672/2023/04/30/stephen-curry-50-point-speech-warriors-kings/
One of the more interesting tidbits is mention of "dissension" creeping into the team, with the finger being pointed at Jonathan Kuminga being upset about lack of playing time, and possibly Jordan Poole, about I don't know what.
It sounds like Curry got wind of it and rather than call out Kuminga and Poole directly, or even speak to each privately, he addressed the entire team, making clear how committed he was and how he demanded the same from everyone who was going to go with him to Sacramento to play Game 7. The 30 for 30 is gonna be epic.
Sixers-Celtics Game 1 and Suns Nuggets Game 2 tonight.
I'm going with both home teams.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 05-01-2023
(05-01-2023, 10:44 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Here's more on the Curry speech.
https://theathletic.com/4475672/2023/04/30/stephen-curry-50-point-speech-warriors-kings/
One of the more interesting tidbits is mention of "dissension" creeping into the team, with the finger being pointed at Jonathan Kuminga being upset about lack of playing time, and possibly Jordan Poole, about I don't know what.
It sounds like Curry got wind of it and rather than call out Kuminga and Poole directly, or even speak to each privately, he addressed the entire team, making clear how committed he was and how he demanded the same from everyone who was going to go with him to Sacramento to play Game 7. The 30 for 30 is gonna be epic.
Sixers-Celtics Game 1 and Suns Nuggets Game 2 tonight.
I'm going with both home teams.
Here's an idea...if you're a 6'8", all-world athlete and can leap out of the building, maybe you shouldn't be 11th on the team in rebounds per minute or 16th in F/T percentage. Or if you're the highly paid, 6'4" heir apparent to Curry, maybe you shouldn't be third on the team in turnovers per minute (behind only Quinones and Rollins), and maybe you should have as many rebounds as Curry and DDV...both of whom rebound at twice the rate you do? And while we're on the topic, GP2 and DDV have twice as many steals per minute as you do, and they have a better defensive rating than you do -- which is tied for last on the team -- GP2 and DDV are both paid a fraction of what you make. Maybe if you play a little better, you'll see the court more. BTW, JP...your offensive rating is second worst on the team. Just sayin'
RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 05-01-2023
Earlier Lex said regular season records mean nothing in a Warriors/Lakers playoff. Maybe, but it doesn't mean we can't learn from them.
On defense a healthy Anthony Davis protecting the rim and using his length to deflect drive-and-dish passes will be troublesome in a way Sac's Sabonis was not. He's a Warrior killer when healthy. Lebron James' familiarity with the Warriors' offense lets him anticipate passes and create turnovers-tough, tough opponent for the Dubs. Plus they can shutdown any Warrior wing not named Curry. Weirdly, even Steph gets cold when playing at whatever they now call the Staples center.
Kerr is going to need to pull out some match-up magic and coach the heck out of this series. The Lakers SHOULD have the edge (it's a tough match-up for the Warriors and I'd have preferred to play the Grizzlies) but it's close.
This is a different Warriors club. I heard Tim Kawakami remark that the early Warrior runs to the finals were built on long two-way players that didn't make you choose between O and D. They no longer have that. For the most part their good defenders are so-so on offense and their good offensive players are so-so on defense. The Sacramento series showed between game adjustments are critical. Coaching the Warriors is no longer as easy as it was in the early title runs when almost every player was world class on offense and defense.
Enjoy the ride however long it lasts. The Sacramento series was fantastic for basketball fans and I'm hoping for the same in the Lakers series.
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 05-01-2023
(05-01-2023, 10:44 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Here's more on the Curry speech.
https://theathletic.com/4475672/2023/04/30/stephen-curry-50-point-speech-warriors-kings/
One of the more interesting tidbits is mention of "dissension" creeping into the team, with the finger being pointed at Jonathan Kuminga being upset about lack of playing time, and possibly Jordan Poole, about I don't know what.
It sounds like Curry got wind of it and rather than call out Kuminga and Poole directly, or even speak to each privately, he addressed the entire team, making clear how committed he was and how he demanded the same from everyone who was going to go with him to Sacramento to play Game 7. The 30 for 30 is gonna be epic.
Sixers-Celtics Game 1 and Suns Nuggets Game 2 tonight.
I'm going with both home teams.
You truly don’t know what Poole’s issue is? Seriously?
As for Curry I think he and Posey are a lot alike. Guys that simply command universal respect. B6 their play and their manner. Don’t usually give big speeches, etc. But when they do…
Been blessed to watch them both. What a joy.
(05-01-2023, 12:39 PM)Leftcoast Wrote: Earlier Lex said regular season records mean nothing in a Warriors/Lakers playoff. Maybe, but it doesn't mean we can't learn from them.
On defense a healthy Anthony Davis protecting the rim and using his length to deflect drive-and-dish passes will be troublesome in a way Sac's Sabonis was not. He's a Warrior killer when healthy. Lebron James' familiarity with the Warriors' offense lets him anticipate passes and create turnovers-tough, tough opponent for the Dubs. Plus they can shutdown any Warrior wing not named Curry. Weirdly, even Steph gets cold when playing at whatever they now call the Staples center.
Kerr is going to need to pull out some match-up magic and coach the heck out of this series. The Lakers SHOULD have the edge (it's a tough match-up for the Warriors and I'd have preferred to play the Grizzlies) but it's close.
This is a different Warriors club. I heard Tim Kawakami remark that the early Warrior runs to the finals were built on long two-way players that didn't make you choose between O and D. They no longer have that. For the most part their good defenders are so-so on offense and their good offensive players are so-so on defense. The Sacramento series showed between game adjustments are critical. Coaching the Warriors is no longer as easy as it was in the early title runs when almost every player was world class on offense and defense.
Enjoy the ride however long it lasts. The Sacramento series was fantastic for basketball fans and I'm hoping for the same in the Lakers series.
It should be a good series. And it will be very different. The Lakers won’t run like Sacramento. But they are going to be much tougher inside and I think the Davis matchup is going to be tough. I expect Kerr will play both Looney and Green together a lot. They will need two bigs. Kuminga may get a little bit of a shot in the series.
To me, the key for the Warriors will be Wiggins. They need him to play like he did against the Celtics. If he does that, they’ll win the series. He’s more than capable of it.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 05-02-2023
Lex, how about telling me what you believe Poole is beefing about.
Can someone explain the Celtics? I can’t figure out how they keep on losing games they should never lose, and I really don’t understand how they can look so great and not be pulling away.
They did this last year too. Who can forget Game 6 of Finals? Jumped out to 12-2 lead and allowed W’s to go on what was it, a 21-0 blitz?
Jaylen Brown looked like he would score 50, then disappeared. Then Jayson Tatum looked like he’d score 50, then he disappeared. The defense on Harden was just head scratching. Why not double him and force other guys not named Maxey and Harden to beat you?
Suns in trouble for sure. Even at full strength they looked weak. Now that Chris Paul is out with his annual leg muscle pull, hard to see that series going more than 5. Nuggets will get to play winner of Lakers-Warriors who will be exhausted and beat up, and host in Denver. Nuggets looking good for Finals.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 05-02-2023
Last time the Warriors played the Lakers, Anthony Lamb was the +/- leader at +17 and Iguodala was next at +11. Klay was -27 and Looney was -26. Curry was -12. Draymond was +6. Kuminga was -15 in 13 minutes. Game before that, everyone was negative except Patrick Baldwin and Moses Moody, who were +7. Klay was -10, Draymond -7, Kuminga got the start and was -4.
Last game, Lakers outrebounded the Warriors by 10, Warriors actually had three more blocks, Lakers only had 7 turnovers to Warriors 12. Lakers shot 44%, 33% from 3 pt range. W's shot 44% and 35%, respectively. Similar amount of assists. Wiggins didn't play in the last game, Curry didn't play in the two prior games.
the only time the Warriors had both Curry and Wiggins, they beat the Lakers soundly at home, 123-109. But that was opening night before the Lakers added players...and before the Warriors added GP2.
This is going to be a tough matchup.
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 05-02-2023
(05-02-2023, 04:53 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Lex, how about telling me what you believe Poole is beefing about.
Can someone explain the Celtics? I can’t figure out how they keep on losing games they should never lose, and I really don’t understand how they can look so great and not be pulling away.
They did this last year too. Who can forget Game 6 of Finals? Jumped out to 12-2 lead and allowed W’s to go on what was it, a 21-0 blitz?
Jaylen Brown looked like he would score 50, then disappeared. Then Jayson Tatum looked like he’d score 50, then he disappeared. The defense on Harden was just head scratching. Why not double him and force other guys not named Maxey and Harden to beat you?
Suns in trouble for sure. Even at full strength they looked weak. Now that Chris Paul is out with his annual leg muscle pull, hard to see that series going more than 5. Nuggets will get to play winner of Lakers-Warriors who will be exhausted and beat up, and host in Denver. Nuggets looking good for Finals.
Well, let me think. He gets cold cocked by a teammate before the season. The teammate is not punished. I’m fairly certain that leaves a bad taste in one’s mouth. Although admittedly, I have not had it happen personally.
Warriors handled that situation very poorly. Green should have been suspended without pay for a meaningful period. He was not.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 05-02-2023
(05-02-2023, 07:55 AM)lex24 Wrote:(05-02-2023, 04:53 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Lex, how about telling me what you believe Poole is beefing about.
Can someone explain the Celtics? I can’t figure out how they keep on losing games they should never lose, and I really don’t understand how they can look so great and not be pulling away.
They did this last year too. Who can forget Game 6 of Finals? Jumped out to 12-2 lead and allowed W’s to go on what was it, a 21-0 blitz?
Jaylen Brown looked like he would score 50, then disappeared. Then Jayson Tatum looked like he’d score 50, then he disappeared. The defense on Harden was just head scratching. Why not double him and force other guys not named Maxey and Harden to beat you?
Suns in trouble for sure. Even at full strength they looked weak. Now that Chris Paul is out with his annual leg muscle pull, hard to see that series going more than 5. Nuggets will get to play winner of Lakers-Warriors who will be exhausted and beat up, and host in Denver. Nuggets looking good for Finals.
Well, let me think. He gets cold cocked by a teammate before the season. The teammate is not punished. I’m fairly certain that leaves a bad taste in one’s mouth. Although admittedly, I have not had it happen personally.
Warriors handled that situation very poorly. Green should have been suspended without pay for a meaningful period. He was not.
OK, so how does that translate to the here and now? What is Poole asking for that he isn't getting now, when the team is trying to win a championship? He got the giant contract extension. He gets opportunities to play a lot of minutes. The team plays the way it plays.
It's obvious Poole has been a malcontent on the floor this year. If you want to tell me he's not really upset about what he's acting upset about, I can buy that. But again, what does he tangibly want to happen? What does Steph not want to hear him complaining about that he isn't getting?
RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 05-02-2023
Well, this season hasn't worked out well for Poole - the punch, media coverage and public "humiliation", team downplays/sides with Draymond, a poor season by most measurables, falling out of the starting line-up repeatedly during the regular season, plus getting pulled from the floor during playoff crunch time. That's a lot to take if you were expecting to fill the Steph Curry role and be the next Warrior superstar. A pay raise in September isn't going to balance all those negatives. And Poole probably has the maturity and perspective of many other 23 year old NBA stars (not a lot).
Truth be told, Kerr and Curry don't want to be bothered with Poole's "feelings" when they are hunting a championship and staving the end of Golden State's dynasty. He got benched when he's wasn't performing and it's been the right call. Way too many of his crazy drives and slips led to 4 on 5 Sacramento fast breaks and easy transition buckets. Poole needs to accept the message from his coach and team leader. otherwise he might be the modern Chris Weber and need a new home.
Video of Poole/Green post game 7 confrontation embedded in story below
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/jordan-poole-shoves-draymond-green-when-he-tries-to-shake-his-hand-after-warriors-win-game-7-over-kings-video/ar-AA1azxv7?li=BBnb7Kz
(Frustration over personal stats after a big win won't make you popular with your teammates.)
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 05-02-2023
(05-02-2023, 09:50 AM)Leftcoast Wrote: Video of Poole/Green post game 7 confrontation embedded in story below
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/jordan-poole-shoves-draymond-green-when-he-tries-to-shake-his-hand-after-warriors-win-game-7-over-kings-video/ar-AA1azxv7?li=BBnb7Kz
(Frustration over personal stats after a big win won't make you popular with your teammates.)
The problem is that video is NOT after Game 7. The Warriors were wearing white unis in Game 7. It very well could have been Game 6 that Poole refused to shake Dray's hand, and that very well could be to what Curry was referring in his speech, because the pic makes clear it happened right in front of him.
I'm not as down on Poole as others. By all accounts he works hard, and has had a knack for not letting big moments be bigger than him. There is no doubt he must play better and he probably knows it too.
Hopefully he took extra time watching his performance from the Kings series and talked with coaches about how he can improve going forward. He needs to edit his game and let it come to him more. Someone should tell him it's OK if he doesn't put up numbers commensurate with his contract. Just play a defined role, take certain shots, move the ball to open guys, and give a solid effort on defense.
RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 05-02-2023
Good point, OF.
The first reports with the video came out on SATURDAY and cite Game 6 so the report I forwarded is just plain sloppy. I have more sympathy for someone who was frustrated in Game 6. We all were frustrated by Game 6. Still, he needs to clean this up - it did not go down well with his teammates including teammate 30.
Here's one of the pre-game 7 articles (SF Gate this time)
https://www.sfgate.com/warriors/article/warriors-fans-picking-apart-video-poole-green-17998797.php
RE: NBA Discussion - gocard14 - 05-02-2023
No doubt Poole has had a disappointing year, but all accounts are he is a grinder. I expect better from him next year if not in this playoffs.
Kuminga also has gotten a lot better this year. But he needs to improve more to be a playoff rotation fixture. His shooting and rebounding in particular need to get better. For teams like the lakers, you can’t let them pack the paint, AD is too good at altering shots. It is HARD to get away with two non shooters against teams like that, especially if you aren’t elite as a passer like Dray. And that means if you are a non shooter, you can only fit into one spot on the rotation, which is usually going to be filled by Dray or Looney.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 05-02-2023
More Poole grist, this time from Tim Kawakami. He says a lot of stuff I was thinking about in terms of Poole finding a role to play and playing it, only he uses warriors players from the past as comps. Specifically, Shaun Livingston and Leandro Barbosa. It's a bit weird given the large role Poole had in last year's championship run, but tough to argue about given the way Poole played the Kings series.
https://theathletic.com/4477608/2023/05/02/jordan-poole-warriors-lakers-prediction/
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 05-02-2023
(05-02-2023, 01:37 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: More Poole grist, this time from Tim Kawakami. He says a lot of stuff I was thinking about in terms of Poole finding a role to play and playing it, only he uses warriors players from the past as comps. Specifically, Shaun Livingston and Leandro Barbosa. It's a bit weird given the large role Poole had in last year's championship run, but tough to argue about given the way Poole played the Kings series.
https://theathletic.com/4477608/2023/05/02/jordan-poole-warriors-lakers-prediction/
Bad comps. Both Livingston and Barbosa were established role players. Not young guys just given a big contract. Barbosa did have Poole like speed.
I heard Kerr talking to Tolbert about Poole about a month ago. Said they worked a lot with him on shot selection, and using his speed off ball. In game seven the best thing he did is start to drive dished to Curry, fill to the corner, get the return pass and hit a wide open three. Be nice if he did more of that.
Best role I think for him right now is instant offense off the bench. A classic sixth man roll. Part of that means, however, slowing down a bit. He’s incredibly fast, but plays out of control a lot. Harness that let the game come to him and he can be a force offensively. He needs to be because he’s terrible defensively and that’s not gonna change any time during these playoffs.
RE: NBA Discussion - French Rage - 05-02-2023
We should critique Poole here more often!
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 05-02-2023
(05-02-2023, 08:18 PM)French Rage Wrote: We should critique Poole here more often!
Lol
RE: NBA Discussion - cardcrimson - 05-02-2023
What the %&T%*$Y% was Poole thinking? 10 seconds left and down by three and he fires up a 28 footer that wasn't close.
Refs not helping the W's either. The Lakers had 23 more free throws than the Warriors. 29 to 6!
RE: NBA Discussion - triangle2 - 05-02-2023
Can you imagine how much better this team would be with the 2016-18 Livingston replacing Poole?
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 05-03-2023
Feeling a bit vindicated for not being as down on Poole as others were. He really stepped up his game as his track record suggested he could, and even had 0 turnovers with 6 assists in addition to great shooting.
Told my buddy right before the game that I haven’t seen anyone make any confident predictions about Warriors-Lakers. It’s all if this happens, it will be W’s. If that happens, it will be Lakers. So I said to me it comes down to if !Klay Thompson shoots well the W’s win. If he doesn’t the Lakers win. I should have added if Draymond scores double figures (because he will get a ton of opportunities) W’s will win.
If Klay shoots 9-25 and 4-19 as he has the last 2 games the Warriors will lose the series.
It’s shocking when team with 14 more shot attempts that sinks 21 3s to the opponent’s 6 loses.
But it’s also rare to lose when outscoring the opponent by 20 at the Free Throw line. I call bullshit on the Lakers committing only 3 fouls per quarter and the W’s 6 per quarter. If fouls are close to even, W’s win, but Thompson simply must shoot at least 40% FG for Warriors to win given his high volume of shots.
Can’t believe the Knicks struggled to beat Heat without Butler.