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RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 05-13-2023

I think Draymond comes back for the simple reason that he's due $27,586,225 million and there is not a single team that would pay anywhere close to that much for him. I think he plays out the year, and then either retires, or accepts a two-year deal of about $25 million. He really only can work well within Kerr's system.

Curry will be here until the end of the 2025/2026 season. He'll be 37 and he won't get past the second round of the playoffs unless and until the next generation matures and improves...quickly.

I really hope they can move Klay Thompson. He needs to go. Whatever he had is long gone. He's an old 33. Unfortunately, he's due $43 million next year, and I seriously doubt the Warriors can find anyone who will pay $43 mms. to a player worth about $4.3 mms. They might have to package him with Poole. Seriously.

I'm on the fence about Poole. When he wants to play, and plays within his skill set, he can be devastating. Unfortunately, his mind isn't right a high percentage of the time. I'd keep him, though...he's only 23. He really needs to grow up, as does Kuminga. Moody's already there.

If they trade Kuminga, hopefully it's for a center (e.g., Nick Richards, 25, of Charlotte) or an off ball shooter like Khris Middleton. Given Klay's shortcomings, I think they might need one.

Green and Lamb might return on very low $ deals, otherwise, they're gone.

DDV? Man, I like his game. I'd love to keep him. But I think he's worth more on the open market than the Warriors are willing to pay. Adios, muchacho.

Ready for a twist? I think Patrick Baldwin, health allowing, could be a really exceptional player.

RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 05-13-2023

(05-13-2023, 06:30 AM)BobK Wrote:  Probably should interview Lacob first
:)

Spell check is like AI. It can be great but also terrible.

RE: NBA Discussion - gocard14 - 05-14-2023

(05-13-2023, 09:07 AM)Mick Wrote:  I think Draymond comes back for the simple reason that he's due $27,586,225 million and there is not a single team that would pay anywhere close to that much for him. I think he plays out the year, and then either retires, or accepts a two-year deal of about $25 million. He really only can work well within Kerr's system.

Curry will be here until the end of the 2025/2026 season. He'll be 37 and he won't get past the second round of the playoffs unless and until the next generation matures and improves...quickly.

I really hope they can move Klay Thompson. He needs to go. Whatever he had is long gone. He's an old 33. Unfortunately, he's due $43 million next year, and I seriously doubt the Warriors can find anyone who will pay $43 mms. to a player worth about $4.3 mms. They might have to package him with Poole. Seriously.

I'm on the fence about Poole. When he wants to play, and plays within his skill set, he can be devastating. Unfortunately, his mind isn't right a high percentage of the time. I'd keep him, though...he's only 23. He really needs to grow up, as does Kuminga. Moody's already there.

If they trade Kuminga, hopefully it's for a center (e.g., Nick Richards, 25, of Charlotte) or an off ball shooter like Khris Middleton. Given Klay's shortcomings, I think they might need one.

Green and Lamb might return on very low $ deals, otherwise, they're gone.

DDV? Man, I like his game. I'd love to keep him. But I think he's worth more on the open market than the Warriors are willing to pay. Adios, muchacho.

Ready for a twist? I think Patrick Baldwin, health allowing, could be a really exceptional player.

Agree with most of this with a few exceptions. 

1. Klays value. I think recency bias from a really rough playoff run is affecting people on this.  22 ppg on 41% three point shooting with acceptable defense is worth over 20, probably closer to 30 mil/year on the market. Definitely not 43 though. If we move him we get worse and due to the contract are unlikely to get much if anything back in return. 

2. Kuminga. I wouldn’t move him unless we really found a great deal.  A decent center isn’t worth it, as especially come playoff time they would be hard pressed to find minutes at the 5 over looney and Dray unless they were a great shooter. Now if Dray is gone that obviously changes.  If we do move him it should be in a package for either a better shooting wing like OG or on ball creator if we also move Poole like trae young or anfernee simons.

RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 05-14-2023

(05-14-2023, 06:53 AM)gocard14 Wrote:  
(05-13-2023, 09:07 AM)Mick Wrote:  I think Draymond comes back for the simple reason that he's due $27,586,225 million and there is not a single team that would pay anywhere close to that much for him. I think he plays out the year, and then either retires, or accepts a two-year deal of about $25 million. He really only can work well within Kerr's system.

Curry will be here until the end of the 2025/2026 season. He'll be 37 and he won't get past the second round of the playoffs unless and until the next generation matures and improves...quickly.

I really hope they can move Klay Thompson. He needs to go. Whatever he had is long gone. He's an old 33. Unfortunately, he's due $43 million next year, and I seriously doubt the Warriors can find anyone who will pay $43 mms. to a player worth about $4.3 mms. They might have to package him with Poole. Seriously.

I'm on the fence about Poole. When he wants to play, and plays within his skill set, he can be devastating. Unfortunately, his mind isn't right a high percentage of the time. I'd keep him, though...he's only 23. He really needs to grow up, as does Kuminga. Moody's already there.

If they trade Kuminga, hopefully it's for a center (e.g., Nick Richards, 25, of Charlotte) or an off ball shooter like Khris Middleton. Given Klay's shortcomings, I think they might need one.

Green and Lamb might return on very low $ deals, otherwise, they're gone.

DDV? Man, I like his game. I'd love to keep him. But I think he's worth more on the open market than the Warriors are willing to pay. Adios, muchacho.

Ready for a twist? I think Patrick Baldwin, health allowing, could be a really exceptional player.

Agree with most of this with a few exceptions. 

1. Klays value. I think recency bias from a really rough playoff run is affecting people on this.  22 ppg on 41% three point shooting with acceptable defense is worth over 20, probably closer to 30 mil/year on the market. Definitely not 43 though. If we move him we get worse and due to the contract are unlikely to get much if anything back in return. 

2. Kuminga. I wouldn’t move him unless we really found a great deal.  A decent center isn’t worth it, as especially come playoff time they would be hard pressed to find minutes at the 5 over looney and Dray unless they were a great shooter. Now if Dray is gone that obviously changes.  If we do move him it should be in a package for either a better shooting wing like OG or on ball creator if we also move Poole like trae young or anfernee simons.

I was thinking keep Kuminga, package Poole and Thompson...?

RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 05-14-2023

With their salaries?  I don’t think the Warriors could get much in return.  After that playoff performance we are selling low.

Watch what happens with Bob Myers.  I don’t think he wants to be the guy who tears down the team.  If he stays expect incremental changes.  If he leaves it’s likely Lacob wants an aggressive restructuring.

RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 05-14-2023

I've been reading that they're talking about extending both Thompson and Green in exchange for lower annual compensation. That's one way to go about lowering the luxury tax, I suppose. Curry has two more years to run than Thompson and Green, both of whose contracts expire after next season (assuming Green wants to come back next year). If you extend both Green and Thompson by two years, and get into a more realistic range, then Thompson, Green and Curry can all go out together.

RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 05-14-2023

What if Klay Thompson simply psyched himself out of the series with the Lakers. Never have I heard a player make a bigger personal (really personal) deal about a playoff series than Klay did this WCSF series. His dad played for the team, he grew up a fan of the team, and his dad does radio of the team's games.  

What if Poole just had a loss of confidence as playoff rotations shrunk and he'll bounce back as he has proven capable of doing?  I mean Poole saw his minutes reduced in Kings series to play Looney more. And he had his minutes reduced to make room for GP2 starting and then even DDV and Moody who were more productive in spot roles. Poole has bounced back before, so will probably do so again.

I'm on record saying they should trade Klay because he's on an expiring contract and that makes it more realistic. But I don't think it is happening. I wouldn't be surprised to see Klay and Dray sign deals to line them up with Steph's contract. That would be three more seasons. 

Next year's roster will look something like this:

Curry, Thompson, Green, Wiggins, Looney, Poole, Moody, Kuminga, Payton II, Patrick Baldwin Jr. The question is Donte DiVincenzo. Can he make more than he is with Warriors now ($4.5M), or will he opt-in? I think there are restrictions on what the W's can pay him.  

If Thompson and Poole shot even 40% FG, the Warriors are playing the Nuggets in Western Conference Finals. And given 
Klay and Poole missed many open shots, it's not a "credit to the defense" thing to me as much as they failed to perform.

RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 05-15-2023

Just saw Bobby Marks video on W’s off season. He was even more confident than me that Green and Thompson will get contracts that line up with Curry. 

Klay cost himself probably over $100M with his no-show over last six games. If he played great these playoffs the W”s might have extended him for big bucks because they would have made another deep playoff run if not won championship. Marks could see a 2 yr $70M extension pay cut for Klay.

Marks thinks Green will get a small raise to 3 yrs for $90M. That seems high to me, but make book on Draymond playing for Warriors for three more years.

The big question is Poole. Any trade would not just be because he was awful in these playoffs. It’s because W’s will likely lose DDV and they need some veterans. Poole can command a couple in trade because he has such a large contract. Trading Poole would be a way around not being able to sign vet free agents due to being capped. 

Moody is ready for a larger role, but he isn’t a PG who can back Curry. If you can get a backup PG and a better version of JaMychal Green at Center for Poole, you might do it.

RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 05-15-2023

I suspect that the Thompson and Green contracts will be somewhat south of what you suggest, particularly given how the season ended. If those two had to go out on the open market, they couldn't command anywhere near those figures. They certainly don't deserve raises. Curry performed to form, Thompson definitely did not. And they have affordability issues. I think that's why Green repeatedly says he wants to retire as a Warrior...no other team will pay him $25mms.

RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 05-15-2023

RE: Poole and Thompson

In cases like their's trades happen when the salary obligations match.  It's possible the Warriors could take on some other team's equally large salary issue and hope for a better fit.  That's possible for Poole but I think it is unlikely with Thompson. 

It's easy to forget Klay shot 43% from the field and 41% from 3pt range for the 2022-2023 season.  That is valuable.  He also has built up respect in the organization and (importantly) with Curry that make him more valuable at Golden State then, say, Dallas.  He'll remain a Warrior but needs to be reasonable in his salary expectations.  Unrealistic rumors that he wants another max salary aren't surprising as a negotiation starting point.

Poole had a tough year but he is young and has played much better.  He is a still the Dubs bridge to the future if he and the team can figure out how to move off this past year with its baggage.  That's more likely over the off-season than in the middle of a play-off series.  I don't see any salary matches out there that need a trade and a new home - at least not ones I would want the Warriors to make.  (Westbrook?, Paul?, ugh)

As others have said, next season needs to see a Warrior commitment to playing their younger players - Kuminga, Baldwin, Moody, and Poole need A LOT of minutes.  Doing that with an owner who wants to win now while maximizing Curry's remaining years is a tight rope I wouldn't want to walk.  Good luck with that, Coach Kerr!  (And if anyone can do that it's you.)

RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 05-15-2023

I identified Pascal Siakam as a possible trade target, but that was with Klay Thompson prior to his dismal playoff performance. Tim Kawakami suggested Poole and Kuminga for Siakam and maybe OG Anunoby.

If the goal is to max out with the Big 3, W's should sell their souls to get Myles Turner from the Pacers. He's criminally underpaid for two more years before becoming a UFA. Turner can space the floor on offense as a 35%+ 3pt shooter, and protect the paint on defense with 2+ blocks per game.

RE: NBA Discussion - TrumpCard - 05-15-2023

Given the issues between Draymond and Poole, I think we’ll see one of them leave. If it’s Draymond, maybe he would go to the Lakers for Bamba and Beasley. The money works out and the Warriors would be able to renew their efforts to work on two timelines. With Bronny coming into the league in 2024 and LeBron likely leaving LA to join him, the Lakers are all or nothing next year. That trade would leave them the MLE to sign a wing.

RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 05-15-2023

(05-15-2023, 01:46 PM)TrumpCard Wrote:  Given the issues between Draymond and Poole, I think we’ll see one of them leave. If it’s Draymond, maybe he would go to the Lakers for Bamba and Beasley. The money works out and the Warriors would be able to renew their efforts to work on two timelines. With Bronny coming into the league in 2024 and LeBron likely leaving LA to join him, the Lakers are all or nothing next year. That trade would leave them the MLE to sign a wing.

How does Draymond fit with Lakers?  Offensively, tough to have a front court of Draymond, Davis and James. Not unless the 1-2 are fantastic shooters. Although admittedly, that would be one hell of a defensive 3-5. 

I just don’t think Draymond has anywhere near the same value outside GS.  His defense, of course, plays anywhere.  His offense doesn’t.  So much of what  Warriors do is based on screens and cuts with Draymond directing.  But a lot of his success on that front, imo, comes from his relationship with Curry.  They read each other so well.  

Also - the Warriors put up with “Draymond being Draymond”  cause he’s helped them win 4 and there is a positive side to his leadership “methods.”  Not so sure he gets that “courtesy “ elsewhere.

RE: NBA Discussion - TrumpCard - 05-15-2023

The fit on offense is no different from Jarred Vanderbilt. I actually thought maybe Davis would slide down to the 4 with Draymond or Vanderbilt playing the 5 most of the time.

RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 05-15-2023

(05-15-2023, 01:46 PM)TrumpCard Wrote:  Given the issues between Draymond and Poole, I think we’ll see one of them leave. If it’s Draymond, maybe he would go to the Lakers for Bamba and Beasley. The money works out and the Warriors would be able to renew their efforts to work on two timelines. With Bronny coming into the league in 2024 and LeBron likely leaving LA to join him, the Lakers are all or nothing next year. That trade would leave them the MLE to sign a wing.

I recall reading that the reason that Draymond punched Poole, at least in part, was because Poole was disrespecting Steve Kerr. If that's the case, then Poole should go. If

RE: NBA Discussion - TrumpCard - 05-15-2023

(05-15-2023, 04:34 PM)Mick Wrote:  
(05-15-2023, 01:46 PM)TrumpCard Wrote:  Given the issues between Draymond and Poole, I think we’ll see one of them leave. If it’s Draymond, maybe he would go to the Lakers for Bamba and Beasley. The money works out and the Warriors would be able to renew their efforts to work on two timelines. With Bronny coming into the league in 2024 and LeBron likely leaving LA to join him, the Lakers are all or nothing next year. That trade would leave them the MLE to sign a wing.

I recall reading that the reason that Draymond punched Poole, at least in part, was because Poole was disrespecting Steve Kerr. If that's the case, then Poole should go. If

Sure, except ain’t nobody gonna take Poole’s contract at 4 yrs/$128mm

RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 05-15-2023

(05-15-2023, 06:15 PM)TrumpCard Wrote:  
(05-15-2023, 04:34 PM)Mick Wrote:  
(05-15-2023, 01:46 PM)TrumpCard Wrote:  Given the issues between Draymond and Poole, I think we’ll see one of them leave. If it’s Draymond, maybe he would go to the Lakers for Bamba and Beasley. The money works out and the Warriors would be able to renew their efforts to work on two timelines. With Bronny coming into the league in 2024 and LeBron likely leaving LA to join him, the Lakers are all or nothing next year. That trade would leave them the MLE to sign a wing.

I recall reading that the reason that Draymond punched Poole, at least in part, was because Poole was disrespecting Steve Kerr. If that's the case, then Poole should go. If

Sure, except ain’t nobody gonna take Poole’s contract at 4 yrs/$128mm

I wonder about that. He finished #38 in ppg this past year, and he's only 23. On a points-per-minute basis, he's #21 in the NBA. That's rare, and definitely worth the contract. I would be more concerned about potential malcontent issues, but high-scoring prima donnas are as common as dirt in the NBA.

RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 05-16-2023

Should Nuggets fans be concerned? Jokic 34, 21, 14, but only win by 6 with terrible defense. It must dramatically improve if they are to make Finals.

RE: NBA Discussion - cardcrimson - 05-16-2023

Congrats to this year's big winner, the San Antonio Spurs. . . .

RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 05-17-2023

(05-16-2023, 08:42 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  Should Nuggets fans be concerned? Jokic 34, 21, 14, but only win by 6 with terrible defense. It must dramatically improve if they are to make Finals.

No. Denver is up 1-0. Game 2 will see adjustments and be entirely different. As will game 3 etc.