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Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - Spiny_Norman - 05-23-2016

USC vs. Duke in the quarters.  Since 2002, they have combined for 8 NCs and 4 runner up finishes.  They are the two pedigree programs in women's college golf.  And one of them is going home after the quarterfinals.

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - BigEasyCard - 05-23-2016

(05-23-2016, 06:34 PM)Spiny_Norman link Wrote:I suggest following Lance Ringler on Twitter.  He is one of the college golf writers for Golfweek.  Once the coaches decide on the matchups for tomorrow, he will likely post them. 

https://twitter.com/GolfweekRingler

Thank you for the link.  Here are the quarterfinal team matchups posted there:

#1 UCLA vs. #8 Oregon
#4 Washington vs. #5 Virginia
#3 Southern California vs. #6 Duke
#2 Stanford vs. #7 South Carolina

Geaux Cardinal!

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - GK3 - 05-23-2016

We shouldn't knock the teams with players from outside the USA.  Aubert was born in France, a non-traveling member is from Germany I believe, we bring in a very good player next year from China.  In fact Stanford's class for the coming year may well be best in the country.  It includes several players with major wins while still in high school.  Lots of good golf to look forward to in the coming years.

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - fullmetal - 05-23-2016

(05-23-2016, 07:22 PM)GK3 link Wrote:We shouldn't knock the teams with players from outside the USA.  Aubert was born in France, a non-traveling member is from Germany I believe, we bring in a very good player next year from China.  In fact Stanford's class for the coming year may well be best in the country.  It includes several players with major wins while still in high school.  Lots of good golf to look forward to in the coming years.

It's not a knock against the players, but I think it's interesting when programs begin to buy into the philosophy that success can't be found with domestic players. The cream of the international crop is possibly just that much better than the domestically available recruits a program can reasonably go after...

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - BigEasyCard - 05-23-2016

(05-23-2016, 07:22 PM)GK3 link Wrote:We shouldn't knock the teams with players from outside the USA.  Aubert was born in France, a non-traveling member is from Germany I believe, we bring in a very good player next year from China.  In fact Stanford's class for the coming year may well be best in the country.  It includes several players with major wins while still in high school.  Lots of good golf to look forward to in the coming years.

Agreed, subject to internationals meeting admissions requirements and maintaining academic eligibility.

Geaux Cardinal!

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - 2006alum - 05-23-2016

(05-23-2016, 07:18 PM)BigEasyCard link Wrote:[quote author=Spiny_Norman link=topic=15082.msg163293#msg163293 date=1464053681]
I suggest following Lance Ringler on Twitter.  He is one of the college golf writers for Golfweek.  Once the coaches decide on the matchups for tomorrow, he will likely post them. 

https://twitter.com/GolfweekRingler

Thank you for the link.  Here are the quarterfinal team matchups posted there:

#1 UCLA vs. #8 Oregon
#4 Washington vs. #5 Virginia
#3 Southern California vs. #6 Duke
#2 Stanford vs. #7 South Carolina

Geaux Cardinal!
[/quote]

UCLA must be pretty happy. Duke, USC and we are all sitting on the opposite half of the draw. They can't face a top ten team until the final.

And assuming this is right, here's our matchups for tomorrow:

Stanford(2)
All Square
S Carolina(7)

S Kersten (Stanfrd) VS K Dambaugh (S Car) A/S Not Started
C Danielson (Stanfrd) VS S Schmelzel (S Car) A/S Not Started
S Aubert (Stanfrd) VS A Olarra (S Car) A/S Not Started
M Stackhouse (Stanfrd) VS M Veysseyre (S Car) A/S Not Started
L Kim (Stanfrd) VS I Nilsson (S Car) A/S Not Started

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - GK3 - 05-23-2016

It was NOT my intent to knock the players from outside the USA, more responding to the sense I had that teams with foreign players are somehow to be frowned upon.  Frankly if they can get in, do the work and graduate I don't see an issue.  I do see an issue of those schools who may end up with lots of foreign players who never graduate.  That is another issue.
The level of golf being played by the top 25 teams is very good.  To be competitive you really need to count on 4 of 5 players shooting at par or better, with the 5th being able to play at the level a good part of the time.  You simply can't compete if you have more than one player post a 7 or 8 over par. 
Stanford loses two top players, but replaces them with outstanding young players.  I would not be surprised to see us have a Freshman win a tournament or two next year. 

Lastly, I think the we need to give the Anne Walker a big hand, even if she did go that school across the bay.  Getting your team ready to play its best when it counts most is a skill not many coaches have. 

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - Spiny_Norman - 05-23-2016

Coach Walker taking an interesting strategy.  She sends the weakest player #5 Sierra Kersten vs. South Carolina's #1 player Katelyn Dambaugh.  Here are the matchups which begin at 7 am pacific.

#5 Kersten (Stanford) vs. #1 Dambaugh (South Carolina)
#3 Danielson (Stanford) vs. #2 Schmelzel (South Carolina)
#4 Aubert (Stanford) vs. #4 Olarra (South Carolina)
#2 Stackhouse (Stanford) vs. #3 Veysseyre (South Carolina)
#1 Kim (Stanford) vs. #5 Nilsson (South Carolina)

You can follow the action here tomorrow morning - http://golfstatresults.com/public/leaderboards/gsnav.cfm?pg=teamPlayer&&lb=&x=0.780293703352&tid=9986

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - 2006alum - 05-23-2016

(05-23-2016, 07:50 PM)Spiny_Norman link Wrote:Coach Walker taking an interesting strategy.  She sends the weakest player #5 Sierra Kersten vs. South Carolina's #1 player Katelyn Dambaugh.  Here are the matchups which begin at 7 am pacific.

#5 Kersten (Stanford) vs. #1 Dambaugh (South Carolina)
#3 Danielson (Stanford) vs. #2 Schmelzel (South Carolina)
#4 Aubert (Stanford) vs. #4 Olarra (South Carolina)
#2 Stackhouse (Stanford) vs. #3 Veysseyre (South Carolina)
#1 Kim (Stanford) vs. #5 Nilsson (South Carolina)

You can follow the action here tomorrow morning - http://golfstatresults.com/public/leaderboards/gsnav.cfm?pg=teamPlayer&&lb=&x=0.780293703352&tid=9986

Not knowing anything about match play strategy, this makes sense given that Kersten's had a pretty rough week (+17 over) and Dambaugh is tied for 11th. Although it's a bit bizarre because their fifth best is Nilsson, who's +24 over, would still be a very winnable match for Kersten.

Here's the matchups based on performance this week.

+17 Kersten (Stanford) vs. -1 Dambaugh (South Carolina)
-5 Danielson (Stanford) vs. +1 Schmelzel (South Carolina)
-1 Aubert (Stanford) vs. E Olarra (South Carolina)
+2 Stackhouse (Stanford) vs. +17 Veysseyre (South Carolina)
+2 Kim (Stanford) vs. +24 Nilsson (South Carolina)

Stackhouse and Kim would be big favorites, and so we'd then need to win one of Danielson and Aubert.

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - Spiny_Norman - 05-23-2016

I think each coach is thinking differently about how to use her most experienced players. 

South Carolina plays two frosh - Vessyeyre and Nilsson.  The coach is sending out two seniors and a soph in the first three groups perhaps with the hope that they can secure the win and take the pressure off the frosh.

Coach Walker is saving the most experienced players Stackhouse and Kim as anchors at the bottom of the matchups.  We'll find out soon enough how it plays out!

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - terry - 05-23-2016

Interesting moves by our coach. I'm not sure I like the idea of basically conceding one match, so that we need to win three of the other four. But Coach Walker has been so good that I'm just going to have faith that she knows what she's doing.

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - oldalum - 05-23-2016

How does the pairing process work?
If Walker in fact gamed it this way, it makes sense if you believe your advantage is in the middle of the lineup. If you think there is a decent chance you could go 0-2 by pairing #5 vs. #5 and #1 vs. #1, but you have the advantage in 2-4, then guaranteeing one win and trying to get 2 of 3 in the middle makes sense. And based on last year, one would expect us to go 3 for 3 in the middle: Aubert and Danielson should be very strong match players, and one would expect a win out of #2 Stackhouse.

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - ColoradoTree - 05-23-2016

I confess I'm not a golf fan, but in tennis, putting a weaker player at the #1 singles spot (and thus effectively conceding that match) and letting the rest of your players play one spot lower (marginally increasing their chances of victory) is known as "stacking" the lineup and is definitely frowned upon.  Usually, with the timing of lineups being introduced at the high school level, you can get away with it.  Tougher at the college level where everyone knows the pecking order within a team. 

Of course, that may not be a thing in golf to the same extent, or if it is, then both teams appear to have done it here, sending their #5 player against the other team's #1, meaning each team is conceding a win to the other. 

To echo oldalum, though, I'd love more information about how the pairing process works.  I wouldn't think that one team could game the system completely, so I wonder if both teams submit lineups 1-5 without knowing what the other team is doing.  A bit of prisoner's dilemma situation? 

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - Nan3cy - 05-23-2016

(05-23-2016, 06:44 PM)terry link Wrote:[quote author=Spiny_Norman link=topic=15082.msg163249#msg163249 date=1464042090]
The birdies are out there for teams that go get them.  Oklahoma St is -6 today. 

I guess the bogies were out there for the taking too. After being -6, Oklahoma St ended up +4.

It's a cruel game sometimes.
[/quote]

From my personal experience, it's a cruel game ALL the time...


method for establishing match play lineups - oldalum - 05-23-2016

From the rulebook:

"The Division I Men's and Women's Golf Committees will determine lineups for the match play portion of the championships using the same method employed at the President's Cup matches. The higher seeded team (as determined through the 72-hole stroke-play portion) "Team 1" will have the first choice of putting a player on the board for Match #1. The opposing team "Team 2" will then name its player for Match #1. Team 2 will then name its player for Match #2, and Team 1 will name its player for Match #2. The process will continue in an "S" curve until the players for all five matches are named. However, Team 1 may defer in the selection process and permit Team 2 to begin the overall selection process."

So Walker had the option of putting her player on the board for #1 first or deferring; anyone know which she chose?

I can see an argument for Walker deferring: if she knows she wants to end with Stackhouse/Kim, she should probably defer so that SC gets to determine those final two match ups with limited choices, and we don't really care who our last two are up against. So SC only gets to determine one consequential matchup, the #2 slot. I suspect that's what happened, and SC put up their #1 player first, and Walker used the opportunity to put our #5 (freshman, no experience in NCAA match play) to "waste" their #1.



Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - Spiny_Norman - 05-23-2016

https://twitter.com/GolfweekRingler/status/734940966927237124

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - winflop - 05-24-2016

(05-23-2016, 10:05 PM)terry link Wrote:Interesting moves by our coach. I'm not sure I like the idea of basically conceding one match, so that we need to win three of the other four. But Coach Walker has been so good that I'm just going to have faith that she knows what she's doing.

I think it's a great strategy.  I with DL3 had done the same in the '12 Ryder Cup on Sunday.  DL3 knew that the Euros were going to put their best players out first to try to get back in the match - he should have put his best players last and instead had Jim Furyk who had choked four Sunday leads that year as well as Steve Stricker who had played awfully the prior days.  Those two choked down the stretch and we lost.

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - Hulk01 - 05-24-2016

In this case, I like the idea of conceding because Kirsten is playing so badly she seemed a likely loss no matter where we stuck her.  That's leaves our 1, 2, 3, and 4 to play their 2, 3. 4. and 5. 

The other reason for doing it is that we have no clear 1,2,3, or 4 right now. Stackhouse has proven, regardless of how she is swinging, to have the guts to win at #1, Kim has the solidest game overall, and Danielson has been our star in this event so far.

And in match play, things can happen.  What has killed Kirsten is horrid holes: three doubles and a triple.  But while a horrid hole costs your two or three strokes in stroke play, it only counts once against you in match play.  As a very good example, I once tied our state champ in match play. I'd measure my odds of doing that in stroke play as roughly to my chances, four years later, of starting at corner back for Stanford.



Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - Stymie - 05-24-2016

In general, in golf the advantage in match play between players of reasonably close ranking is relatively minimal vis a vis tennis.  In the latter the chances of someone 250 in the world beating someone in the top 20 is minimal.  In match play golf the world top 250 will probably beat the world 2-3 times out of 10.  As a once 4-6 handicap golfer (definitely world 1,000,000+) I have beaten 2 players playing off +3 or better (world 1,000+ or so, both later round major championship players) in match play.  It is a cruel and highly unpredictable game.

Re: WGolf @ NCAA tourney - BigEasyCard - 05-24-2016

Leaderboard not showing results yet.  However, we have following from Twitter:

"Card up early in three matches, down in one."

Geaux Cardinal!