A Few Thoughts on the First Game

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Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - Farm93 - 09-05-2016

(09-03-2016, 03:20 PM)CompSci87 link Wrote:[quote author=stupac2 link=topic=15566.msg169769#msg169769 date=1472939438]
Yeah I have no idea why anyone thinks that should've been flagged, maybe it should've been offsetting PIs, but when the receiver stiff-arms the defender before the defender touches him, you really want it to only be DPI? People were just salty.

The color guy on the TV broadcast was totally certain that it was defensive PI for "tackling" the receiver before the ball arrived. He kept harping on that throughout the rest of the game right to the end. "K-State should have had 4 more points", etc. Perhaps he influenced some folks to see it his way.
[/quote]

FS1's Team was far from broadcasting excellence for their first game of the season.Â They often were too busy talking about things to realize flags were thrown and/or downs were replayed.Â So I am not too worried about what they think was the right call.

FWIW - The 4 more point argument is flawed.Â Why?Â There were only 6 seconds left in the half.Â Even if PI was called.Â KSU would have had to opt to run a play and risk the clock falling to zero.Â Also, they would have actually needed to gain those yards.Â My guess is even with PI they would have kicked the ball as six seconds might not be enough.Â To put it a different way...the LACK of a flag may have prevented K-State from going to the locker room with nothing.

Also watching it live, in the stands.Â It looked wrong.Â I thought the K-State receiver fell and Holder fell on top of him.Â That's not quite what happened, but it didn't seem like it was a simple DB takedown.Â And if I didn't listen to the FS1 commentary the TV replays would have reinforced my initial thought that it was not a DC takedown.Â Offensive PI, Illegal hands to the face or no call were all options.Â Defensive PI was too, but a team doesn't just get 7 points for that foul.Â And I doubt they get a TD or even go for a TD with only 6 seconds left.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - OutsiderFan - 09-05-2016

My thoughts after digesting and re-watching, and seeing other games...

- Way, way too much obsession getting CMac the ball.Â If the QB just has to "run the offense and not try to do anything spectacular," why can't Stanford just run the offense and not tilt it so heavily toward McCaffrey?Â I get that he's the best player, but it just gets easier and easier to defend when more and more of it goes through one guy.Â

- It is criminal how underused the WRs are.Â Just 5 WR catches in the whole game, and not many more targets.Â Want to see more than 19 pass attempts in a game, and the WRs/TEs to get more targets than CMac.Â What talented WR in his right mind will want to play for Stanford when they get so few opportunities?

- I get wanting to control the clock, but you totally piss away any talent advantage you might have - and Stanford did have over KSU - when you only run 49 plays.Â KSU ran 73 plays.Â Why the need to run the play clock down to almost zero before every snap?

- Jordan Watkins looks like he is going to be a real force.

- Kalambayi looks really good.

- Solomon Thomas might be the greatest "pursuit" DL in the country.

- Meeks is a stud.

- Hoffpauir should be playing SS exclusively; great tackler, but doesn't have the change of direction quickness to be covering receivers down field.Â Play Meeks or Alexander at Nickel.

- Fanaika should start over Bright at LG. He had multiple pancakes.

- Nick Wilson is a very good blocker.Â Wonder what he would be like as a blocking back in short yardage.

- Mike Tyler and Joey Alfieri were decidedly unimpressive.

- Palma, Davis, Okereke, Barton, and Branch all played at ILB.Â Never saw Perez on the field.

- When do we find out what is up with Annan and Phillips?

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - Durty Nelly - 09-05-2016

I thought the all out pursuit of McCaffrey on running plays would have led to Burns keeping the ballÂ and running himself much like Hogan did in multiple games last year.Â Are they saving this for the next game?

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - Mick - 09-05-2016

(09-05-2016, 07:32 AM)Durty Nelly link Wrote:I thought the all out pursuit of McCaffrey on running plays would have led to Burns keeping the ballÂ and running himself much like Hogan did in multiple games last year.Â Are they saving this for the next game?

I think we're saving a LOT for the next game, and the four games after that.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - stupac2 - 09-05-2016

(09-05-2016, 07:26 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:- I get wanting to control the clock, but you totally piss away any talent advantage you might have - and Stanford did have over KSU - when you only run 49 plays.Â KSU ran 73 plays.Â Why the need to run the play clock down to almost zero before every snap?

I'm glad you looked that up because it seemed crazy to me that we had fewer total yards than KSU despite what appeared to be a brobdingnagian edge in YPP, looking up now it's nearly an entire yard! (5.55 vs 4.59) You're right, we dominated this game and by running so few plays it wasn't quite as obvious as it should've been. I think part of that was fluky, with Burns suddenly getting horribly inaccurate for parts of the second half, if instead of going (by memory here) 2/6 he was even going 50% we probably run a dozen more plays, but it's still a pretty bad discrepancy.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - ChicagoCard - 09-05-2016

(09-05-2016, 06:55 AM)Durty Nelly link Wrote:[quote author=ChicagoVisitor link=topic=15566.msg170032#msg170032 date=1473081445]
Hank's GoMightyCard article included Youtube highlights of both of McCaffrey's rushing touchdowns, and I noticed those plays involved big holes at least partly the result of Fanaika's blocking, not as ogre but left guard. Maybe he and Bright will continue to rotate, like Caspers and Austin in '14.

Fanaika was lined up as the TE outside of Tucker on the second.Â He he had a great block and went on to engage a second defender.Â Wonder how his pass protection form is.
[/quote]

Ah, gotcha. Thanks.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - TriangleTree - 09-05-2016

(09-05-2016, 07:26 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:- Way, way too much obsession getting CMac the ball.Â If the QB just has to "run the offense and not try to do anything spectacular," why can't Stanford just run the offense and not tilt it so heavily toward McCaffrey?Â I get that he's the best player, but it just gets easier and easier to defend when more and more of it goes through one guy.Â

That was my feeling as well. It reminded me of Montgomery's senior year where seemingly everything went through him (with limited success). Hopefully the QB performance leads to increased confidence and a broader spread of the wealth.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - martyup - 09-05-2016

(09-05-2016, 07:32 AM)Durty Nelly link Wrote:I thought the all out pursuit of McCaffrey on running plays would have led to Burns keeping the ballÂ and running himself much like Hogan did in multiple games last year.Â Are they saving this for the next game?

I think that was the plan on the fumble.Â It looked like Burns was pulling it out when the ball got free.Â Maybe Shawgren decided not to try that again in the game without some further practice reps.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - washingtonismoney - 09-06-2016

(09-05-2016, 10:27 AM)martyup link Wrote:I think that was the plan on the fumble.Â It looked like Burns was pulling it out when the ball got free.Â Maybe Shawgren decided not to try that again in the game without some further practice reps.

Upon re-watching it, really too bad they couldn't pull off the play. Burns at least gets three yards (to set up 3rd and 3 or so) and possibly the first. He had a lane.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - CTcard - 09-06-2016

(09-05-2016, 06:17 AM)ChicagoVisitor link Wrote:Hank's GoMightyCard article included Youtube highlights of both of McCaffrey's rushing touchdowns, and I noticed those plays involved big holes at least partly the result of Fanaika's blocking, not as ogre but left guard. Maybe he and Bright will continue to rotate, like Caspers and Austin in '14.

Fanaika and Bright didn't rotate. Fanaika substituted for Bright when Chryst substituted for Burns.

Don't know if that is a package, but I thought both the run blocking and the offense's overall execution looked crisper in that series than any other time during the game, though it was such a small sample size it is impossible to know if that means anything. [posted the same in another thread]

(09-05-2016, 07:32 AM)Durty Nelly link Wrote:I thought the all out pursuit of McCaffrey on running plays would have led to Burns keeping the ballÂ and running himself much like Hogan did in multiple games last year.Â Are they saving this for the next game?

Doubt they are saving it, but if I remember everything, that fumble was the only time Burns read keep on the (nominal) read-option. I don't know how to tell if Burns simply didn't feel comfortable keeping (not giving the ball to McCaffrey is a notable decision in itself) or if the play wasn't really a read but was simply told to give it up - but it looked to me like there were substantial yards there for Burns if he had read "keep" on several plays.

They also didn't have Burns throw to the space abandoned by the charging safeties much - once in the second half I think. Again, hard to tell exactly what decision was being made but it seems clear Shaw didn't want to lose the game by interception.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - OutsiderFan - 09-07-2016

When I watch games with Frosh and True Frosh QBs slinging the ball all over the field, the notion that Shaw is afraid to have his first-time starting redshirt Junior QB throw the ball is utterly silly, if true.Â

I do recall last year that in the Southern Cal game, we saw a much more aggressive passing attack than was on display against Northwestern and UCF, so hopefully the same holds true for this year as well.Â

As an aside, has the Pac-12 made some sort of commitment to always have Stanford and Southern Cal play each other in their conference opener?Â It seems like this is the case considering the fact this is the third season in a row this has been the case.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - rudruff - 09-07-2016

I think the early Stanford/SC game is the conference's way of dealing with the late game against Noter Dame that occurs each year with one of the schools.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - CTcard - 09-07-2016

(09-07-2016, 06:26 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:I do recall last year that in the Southern ×ÉÉ game, we saw a much more aggressive passing attack than was on display against Northwestern and UCF, so hopefully the same holds true for this year as well.Â

Whether that is true depends on just what you mean.

Over the first four games or so last year (U$C was #3), Stanford was dialing up McCaffrey's role and dialing back the passing game. The pass game for the latter part of the season mostly had two modes: play action for big plays and third down conversions.

It was about the time of game #3 that BC started a series of posts titled "Correlation is not Causation" where he showed that for several games in a row, Stanford's percentage run went up and yards per play went up at the same time.

I wouldn't characterize an "occasional play-action/third down conversion" passing attack as aggressive, but since the play action passes are mostly downfield strikes I guess there is room for interpretation. Of course, a more successful passing game looks more aggressive regardless.

This year we started out not passing much, so things won't evolve in the same direction. My first impression is that moving to more passing might be beneficial for this year's team, as the pass blocking looked better than run blocking and both Burns and Chryst throw well. Admittedly that is not based upon much.

Quote:When I watch games with Frosh and True Frosh QBs slinging the ball all over the field, the notion that Shaw is afraid to have his first-time starting redshirt Junior QB throw the ball is utterly silly, if true.

Whether silly or not, it's clearly true.
Of course all those frosh are also throwing plenty of interceptions and making poor in-play decisions as well.

Actually, my impression is that Shaw would like to pass a lot more than we usually do, but that is coupled to a strong desire to avoid killer mistakes. With a new QB that tends to balance against throwing.

By the way, what true frosh are playing QB this year?

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - JohnR34231 - 09-07-2016

(09-05-2016, 07:26 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:My thoughts after digesting and re-watching, and seeing other games...

- Way, way too much obsession getting CMac the ball.Â If the QB just has to "run the offense and not try to do anything spectacular," why can't Stanford just run the offense and not tilt it so heavily toward McCaffrey?Â I get that he's the best player, but it just gets easier and easier to defend when more and more of it goes through one guy.Â

- It is criminal how underused the WRs are.Â Just 5 WR catches in the whole game, and not many more targets.Â Want to see more than 19 pass attempts in a game, and the WRs/TEs to get more targets than CMac.Â What talented WR in his right mind will want to play for Stanford when they get so few opportunities?

For better or worse, I think Shaw's idea of "run the offense" this year is getting the ball to CMac. When we get Love back, I think we will see him get some touches, and as Burns/Chryst gets more experience they will get to do more, but the lion's share will still go to McCaffrey. I will say with all the hype Trent Irwin gets I'm a little surprised we don't try to throw to him more.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - BostonCard - 09-07-2016

(09-07-2016, 07:51 AM)CTcard link Wrote:By the way, what true frosh are playing QB this year?

Not sure if they are true frosh or redshirt frosh, but the most prominent ones were:
Alabama Jalen Hurts
Texas Shane Buechele
Florida State Deondre Francois
Georgia Jacob Eason

BC

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - CTcard - 09-07-2016

(09-07-2016, 07:53 AM)JPRI link Wrote:[quote author=OutsiderFan link=topic=15566.msg170039#msg170039 date=1473085582]
- Way, way too much obsession getting CMac the ball.

For better or worse, I think Shaw's idea of "run the offense" this year is getting the ball to CMac.
[/quote]

Just to keep track, McCaffrey had
22 carries,
7 receptions,
29 plays from scrimmage,
59% of offensive plays.

Highs from last year were
33 carries (vs Oregon)
5 receptions (vs Northwestern, Washington, Oregon)
38 plays from scrimmage (Oregon)
58% of offensive plays vs cal

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - Stymie - 09-07-2016

(09-07-2016, 07:53 AM)JPRI link Wrote:I will say with all the hype Trent Irwin gets I'm a little surprised we don't try to throw to him more.

Maybe Irwin is smarter and better than our QB(s).Â Even if you run great routes, if the QB's aren't in sync you'll be standing open and watching the the rest of the play unfold, mostly on the other side of the field.Â Joe Montana didn't have a great arm, but he knew how to use Jerry Rice's skills and discipline and it took him to the HOF.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - North Woods - 09-07-2016

(09-06-2016, 08:11 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:[quote author=martyup link=topic=15566.msg170068#msg170068 date=1473096428]

I think that was the plan on the fumble.Â It looked like Burns was pulling it out when the ball got free.Â Maybe Shawgren decided not to try that again in the game without some further practice reps.

Upon re-watching it, really too bad they couldn't pull off the play. Burns at least gets three yards (to set up 3rd and 3 or so) and possibly the first. He had a lane.
[/quote]

Confirmed that Burns was trying to keep the ball: The defender is my read, Burns said If he goes toward Christian, I take it. But he made a great play and came at both of us. I tried to pull it (back) too late. It was on me.

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - CTcard - 09-07-2016

(09-07-2016, 08:02 AM)Boston Card link Wrote:Not sure if they are true frosh or redshirt frosh, but the most prominent ones were:
Alabama Jalen Hurts - true frosh, started January 2016
Texas Shane Buechele - true frosh, started January 2016
Florida State Deondre Francois - RS Frosh
Georgia Jacob Eason - true frosh, started January 2016

BC

Thanks

Re: A Few Thoughts on the First Game - stupac2 - 09-07-2016

(09-07-2016, 07:53 AM)JPRI link Wrote:I will say with all the hype Trent Irwin gets I'm a little surprised we don't try to throw to him more.

Well, there's Irwin, McCaffrey, Rector, Owusu, the TEs, plenty of players to try to get targets. Irwin only had one reception though I know he was targeted at least once more.