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Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-18-2018

(01-18-2018, 09:56 PM)BobK link Wrote:So you say Dugger walks a fair amount.  That’s good 😀

Last year he walked 27 times in 164 at bats across all levels of minor league ball.  Unfortunately, he struck out 54 times, including 42 strikeouts in 115 A-ball at bats in San Jose.

Is that really the best that the Giants can do?

Re: OT: Giants outfield - Phogge - 01-18-2018

Yeah, they ran out of patience with Willie Kirkland and Leon Wagner.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - qwerty49 - 01-19-2018

Aren't there any Alou grandsons left?

Re: OT: Giants outfield - OutsiderFan - 01-19-2018

At this point, I just want to see the Giants put a young guy out there, leave him alone, and see what he can do in about 70-80 games, without pulling him if he struggles for a week during that period. Give him all of April, May and June to make a go of it for himself and see what he does. If the team is in contention and CF needs an upgrade, see what's available.  If it's not, Duggar likely isn't going to be the reason the team isn't contending.  And if he is doing well, you are keeping him whether contending or not.

If Duggar is the guy, then tell him what the plan is. Take the pressure off him, and do everything possible to nurture him.  There's been more than a few guys who actually performed better at the MLB level than MiLB level. Maybe Duggar will be one. 

At least they aren't saying McCutchen will play CF if nobody else is signed. That was my big fear.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - lex24 - 01-19-2018

He is supposedly an excellent defensive CF with speed. If he is that, and can have a solid OBP I’m fine with it. They can use what little money they have for a fifth starter. Right now it’s probably:

Bum
Cueto
Samardjzia
Stratton
Blach/Suarez/Beede

So do they improve more with a serviceable 5th or a Hamilton (for whom you lose prospects) or Dyson pick up?  I don’t think Cain is realistic given the luxury tax and lost draft picks.



(01-18-2018, 10:37 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=BobK link=topic=18541.msg221763#msg221763 date=1516337809]
So you say Dugger walks a fair amount.  That’s good 😀

Last year he walked 27 times in 164 at bats across all levels of minor league ball.  Unfortunately, he struck out 54 times, including 42 strikeouts in 115 A-ball at bats in San Jose.

Is that really the best that the Giants can do?
[/quote]

Re: OT: Giants outfield - teejers1 - 01-19-2018

70-80 games sounds too high an experimental period.  The brain trust should definitely give the CF some rope and tell him the job is his.  But secretly, the number should cap at about 35-40 games (if a guy can't show you something in that period, well, find somebody else).

Re: OT: Giants outfield - OutsiderFan - 01-19-2018

(01-19-2018, 09:47 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:70-80 games sounds too high an experimental period.  The brain trust should definitely give the CF some rope and tell him the job is his.  But secretly, the number should cap at about 35-40 games (if a guy can't show you something in that period, well, find somebody else).

While I agree with 35-40 game in principle, many guys don't start hitting until it gets warmer. Plus, given he issue CF is for the Giants, and how difficult it will be for them to contend, it seems wise to give Duggar a long, extended look.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-19-2018

Okay, you talked me into it.  I am now a Duggar fan.

This guy hit .261 in AA, then went on to a good career with the Giants:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=thomps009rob



Re: OT: Giants outfield - lex24 - 01-19-2018

Frankly I think they are way more concerned about the defense in Center. Duggar is supposedly special defensively. So he’s not going to have to hit much to hold the job. As horrific as they were offensively in the OF in ‘17, they may have been worse defensively.  If Duggar is as advertised, a Pence Duggar McCutcheon OF could be fairly strong defensively.

The infield should be terrific defensively.

When the Giants win, they pitch and pick it  well. They aren’t built to out slug anyone.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - Hey - 01-19-2018

How about Austin Slater in CF for a year? If he hits like he did last year, I'd be good with it.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-20-2018

(01-19-2018, 11:38 PM)Big Brother link Wrote:How about Austin Slater in CF for a year? If he hits like he did last year, I'd be good with it.

He would be my pick.  I think he was really coming on before he got hurt.  FWLIW, he hits GREAT at AT&T.  His home hitting line was .372./.426/.465/.891 -- and that was without any home runs.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - wallendar - 01-20-2018

I’m with lex.  Defense and pitching are the cornerstones on which the team has been built.  If Duggar can produce a significantly above average Defensive WAR and hit .260, the Giants will have made the right move. 

Re: OT: Giants outfield - BobK - 01-20-2018

Slater will get plenty of ABs if he is the 4-5th OF.  But he isn’t a CFer

Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-20-2018

(01-20-2018, 12:56 PM)BobK link Wrote:Slater will get plenty of ABs if he is the 4-5th OF.  But he isn’t a CFer

No, Slater is the definition of an average MLB outfielder.  But Slater hit .321 last year in AAA, 60 points higher than Duggar.  Their comparative 2017 AAA lines were:

Duggar:  .261/.370/.413/.783
Slater:    .321/.377/.467/.845

Before Slater's core injury (he tried to come back too soon, played five games and then had an operation), he batted .290/.343/.430/.773 for the Giants.  For comparison's sake, Pence batted .260/.315/.385/.701.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - lex24 - 01-20-2018

Slater should be the 4th OF. But it doesn’t matter how much he hits better than Duggar. Slater is a corner OF. The Giants must have a plus defender in a Center.

(01-20-2018, 02:20 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=BobK link=topic=18541.msg221895#msg221895 date=1516478179]
Slater will get plenty of ABs if he is the 4-5th OF.  But he isn’t a CFer

No, Slater is the definition of an average MLB outfielder.  But Slater hit .321 last year in AAA, 60 points higher than Duggar.  Their comparative 2017 AAA lines were:

Duggar:  .261/.370/.413/.783
Slater:    .321/.377/.467/.845

Before Slater's core injury (he tried to come back too soon, played five games and then had an operation), he batted .290/.343/.430/.773 for the Giants.  For comparison's sake, Pence batted .260/.315/.385/.701.
[/quote]

Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-20-2018

(01-20-2018, 03:59 PM)lex24 link Wrote:Slater should be the 4th OF. But it doesn’t matter how much he hits better than Duggar. Slater is a corner OF. The Giants must have a plus defender in a Center.

[quote author=Mick link=topic=18541.msg221903#msg221903 date=1516483225]
[quote author=BobK link=topic=18541.msg221895#msg221895 date=1516478179]
Slater will get plenty of ABs if he is the 4-5th OF.  But he isn’t a CFer

No, Slater is the definition of an average MLB outfielder.  But Slater hit .321 last year in AAA, 60 points higher than Duggar.  Their comparative 2017 AAA lines were:

Duggar:  .261/.370/.413/.783
Slater:    .321/.377/.467/.845

Before Slater's core injury (he tried to come back too soon, played five games and then had an operation), he batted .290/.343/.430/.773 for the Giants.  For comparison's sake, Pence batted .260/.315/.385/.701.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I would suggest that you are correct if Duggar bats .260.  I would suggest that is not a correct assumption if Duggar bats .190.

Re: OT: Giants outfield - lex24 - 01-20-2018

If he hits .190 unless he’s Tris Speaker  ( or Billy North like in that he walks a ton) he will sit. And if no one else is around that means Gorkys. He can hit .215. They are not going to put a corner guy in Center. They got killed by balls that should have been caught dropping. It’s a big park. And when they have been successful it’s been the pitching and defense that led the way.

Now - let’s turn to the rotation. Personally I’m not sold.....

(01-20-2018, 04:26 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=lex24 link=topic=18541.msg221940#msg221940 date=1516489154]
Slater should be the 4th OF. But it doesn’t matter how much he hits better than Duggar. Slater is a corner OF. The Giants must have a plus defender in a Center.

[quote author=Mick link=topic=18541.msg221903#msg221903 date=1516483225]
[quote author=BobK link=topic=18541.msg221895#msg221895 date=1516478179]
Slater will get plenty of ABs if he is the 4-5th OF.  But he isn’t a CFer

No, Slater is the definition of an average MLB outfielder.  But Slater hit .321 last year in AAA, 60 points higher than Duggar.  Their comparative 2017 AAA lines were:

Duggar:  .261/.370/.413/.783
Slater:    .321/.377/.467/.845

Before Slater's core injury (he tried to come back too soon, played five games and then had an operation), he batted .290/.343/.430/.773 for the Giants.  For comparison's sake, Pence batted .260/.315/.385/.701.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I would suggest that you are correct if Duggar bats .260.  I would suggest that is not a correct assumption if Duggar bats .190.
[/quote]

Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-20-2018

Actually, Speaker's strength was hitting, not fielding.  He hit the most doubles in history, career .345 hitter.  123.6 offensive WAR, just 2.6 defensive WAR.  And Gorkys hit .255 last year and .259 the year before.  His range factor is 2.38 against the league's 2.06.  That's good defense.

As for the starters:

Madbum, great.  Will bounce back.
Cueto, great in 2016, not so great in 2017.  Needs to bounce back. 
Samardzija had a better ERA than Cueto (4.42 to 4.52)
Ty Blach went 8-12 in 24 starts.  Two wheel landing.  And takeoff.
Chris Stratton was 4-4 in ten starts.  Pretty good as a rule.

Incidentally, the pitching staff gave up 182 home runs.  YIKES.

(01-20-2018, 04:44 PM)lex24 link Wrote:If he hits .190 unless he’s Tris Speaker  ( or Billy North like in that he walks a ton) he will sit. And if no one else is around that means Gorkys. He can hit .215. They are not going to put a corner guy in Center. They got killed by balls that should have been caught dropping. It’s a big park. And when they have been successful it’s been the pitching and defense that led the way.

Now - let’s turn to the rotation. Personally I’m not sold.....

[quote author=Mick link=topic=18541.msg221949#msg221949 date=1516490761]
[quote author=lex24 link=topic=18541.msg221940#msg221940 date=1516489154]
Slater should be the 4th OF. But it doesn’t matter how much he hits better than Duggar. Slater is a corner OF. The Giants must have a plus defender in a Center.

[quote author=Mick link=topic=18541.msg221903#msg221903 date=1516483225]
[quote author=BobK link=topic=18541.msg221895#msg221895 date=1516478179]
Slater will get plenty of ABs if he is the 4-5th OF.  But he isn’t a CFer

No, Slater is the definition of an average MLB outfielder.  But Slater hit .321 last year in AAA, 60 points higher than Duggar.  Their comparative 2017 AAA lines were:

Duggar:  .261/.370/.413/.783
Slater:    .321/.377/.467/.845

Before Slater's core injury (he tried to come back too soon, played five games and then had an operation), he batted .290/.343/.430/.773 for the Giants.  For comparison's sake, Pence batted .260/.315/.385/.701.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I would suggest that you are correct if Duggar bats .260.  I would suggest that is not a correct assumption if Duggar bats .190.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Re: OT: Giants outfield - qwerty49 - 01-20-2018

Yeah, Gorkys will be the backup CF.  Which begs the question what do they do with their two AAAA guys, Parker and Williamson, who might both be out of options.


(01-20-2018, 04:44 PM)lex24 link Wrote:If he hits .190 unless he’s Tris Speaker  ( or Billy North like in that he walks a ton) he will sit. And if no one else is around that means Gorkys. He can hit .215. They are not going to put a corner guy in Center. They got killed by balls that should have been caught dropping. It’s a big park. And when they have been successful it’s been the pitching and defense that led the way.

Now - let’s turn to the rotation. Personally I’m not sold.....

[quote author=Mick link=topic=18541.msg221949#msg221949 date=1516490761]
[quote author=lex24 link=topic=18541.msg221940#msg221940 date=1516489154]
Slater should be the 4th OF. But it doesn’t matter how much he hits better than Duggar. Slater is a corner OF. The Giants must have a plus defender in a Center.

[quote author=Mick link=topic=18541.msg221903#msg221903 date=1516483225]
[quote author=BobK link=topic=18541.msg221895#msg221895 date=1516478179]
Slater will get plenty of ABs if he is the 4-5th OF.  But he isn’t a CFer

No, Slater is the definition of an average MLB outfielder.  But Slater hit .321 last year in AAA, 60 points higher than Duggar.  Their comparative 2017 AAA lines were:

Duggar:  .261/.370/.413/.783
Slater:    .321/.377/.467/.845

Before Slater's core injury (he tried to come back too soon, played five games and then had an operation), he batted .290/.343/.430/.773 for the Giants.  For comparison's sake, Pence batted .260/.315/.385/.701.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I would suggest that you are correct if Duggar bats .260.  I would suggest that is not a correct assumption if Duggar bats .190.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Re: OT: Giants outfield - Mick - 01-20-2018

Good question.  Hopefully, they'll get traded somewhere and don't turn into Rob Deer Dave KingmanAdam Duvall.

(01-20-2018, 06:41 PM)qwerty49 link Wrote:Yeah, Gorkys will be the backup CF.  Which begs the question what do they do with their two AAAA guys, Parker and Williamson, who might both be out of options.


[quote author=lex24 link=topic=18541.msg221951#msg221951 date=1516491842]
If he hits .190 unless he’s Tris Speaker  ( or Billy North like in that he walks a ton) he will sit. And if no one else is around that means Gorkys. He can hit .215. They are not going to put a corner guy in Center. They got killed by balls that should have been caught dropping. It’s a big park. And when they have been successful it’s been the pitching and defense that led the way.

Now - let’s turn to the rotation. Personally I’m not sold.....

[quote author=Mick link=topic=18541.msg221949#msg221949 date=1516490761]
[quote author=lex24 link=topic=18541.msg221940#msg221940 date=1516489154]
Slater should be the 4th OF. But it doesn’t matter how much he hits better than Duggar. Slater is a corner OF. The Giants must have a plus defender in a Center.

[quote author=Mick link=topic=18541.msg221903#msg221903 date=1516483225]
[quote author=BobK link=topic=18541.msg221895#msg221895 date=1516478179]
Slater will get plenty of ABs if he is the 4-5th OF.  But he isn’t a CFer

No, Slater is the definition of an average MLB outfielder.  But Slater hit .321 last year in AAA, 60 points higher than Duggar.  Their comparative 2017 AAA lines were:

Duggar:  .261/.370/.413/.783
Slater:    .321/.377/.467/.845

Before Slater's core injury (he tried to come back too soon, played five games and then had an operation), he batted .290/.343/.430/.773 for the Giants.  For comparison's sake, Pence batted .260/.315/.385/.701.
[/quote]
[/quote]

I would suggest that you are correct if Duggar bats .260.  I would suggest that is not a correct assumption if Duggar bats .190.
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]