Outside Topic Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Printable Version
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RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - BostonCard - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 03:28 PM)M T Wrote: I wonder who blew the whistle and I wonder who has cooperated with the investigation. I don't know about these things, but that seemed like a very quick guilty plea from Vandemoer.
I think Ringer (the guy who instigated the whole fraud) turned state's evidence. That's why basically they have tape on everyone who was indicted.
BC
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - qwerty49 - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 04:13 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(03-12-2019, 03:28 PM)M T Wrote: I wonder who blew the whistle and I wonder who has cooperated with the investigation. I don't know about these things, but that seemed like a very quick guilty plea from Vandemoer.
I think Ringer (the guy who instigated the whole fraud) turned state's evidence. That's why basically they have tape on everyone who was indicted.
BC
Singer, not Ringer. It just seems a bit strange that the guy behind it all rats out his clients in an obvious effort to get a better deal. I get that the clients are accessories, but the guy behind it should take a big, big fall IMO.
This is already becoming a class warfare meme on social media. People might be getting weary of rich folks subverting the system to their advantage.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - cardcrimson - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 04:03 PM)oldalum Wrote: According to the Mercury-News story, the Henriquez daughter knowingly participated in cheating on the SAT exam (she sat next to the proctor who was giving her the answers). It seems to me that any student who knowingly participated in cheating on an admission exam, or in falsifying the application to a university, should probably be expelled on that basis. The tougher question is a student who was truly an innocent unknowing lamb in this process, if such a student exists.
Allegedly, the daughters of Aunt Becky posed for pics using rowing machines, and were touted as strong crew team prospects. Ironically, not a muscle on either one, as they both are youtube and instragram "influencers", with one in particular making a ton of money selling beauty products. Wonderful video posted by her commenting that she's going to talk with school administrators about balancing her social media and school requirements. She went on to say that she was pretty much only at USC for the football games and the parties, as she's not all that into school. University of Spoiled Children once again living up to its moniker.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 82lsju - 03-12-2019
Quote:In addition, we will ensure that Stanford will not benefit from the monies that were contributed to the Stanford sailing program as part of this fraudulent activity. We are working to determine the most appropriate way to redirect the funds to an entity unaffiliated with Stanford, consistent with the regulations governing such gifts and in cooperation with the government.
https://quadblog.stanford.edu/2019/03/12/the-sailing-case-and-our-resolve/
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Nan3cy - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 10:25 AM)terry Wrote: The allegation against Stanford's sailing coach, John Vandemoer, is that he accepted donations to the sailing program in exchange for designating certain applicants as sailing recruits for admissions purposes. It is alleged that the applicants weren't actually competitive sailors, but submitted fake profiles fabricating sailing credentials. The allegations describe two cases in which this happened. One of the applicants was admitted but did not enroll. Another student didn't end up applying. So none of the phony sailors actually enrolled. Nevertheless, the sailing program apparently kept donations in the amount of $270,000.
https://www.justice.gov/file/1142906/download
_______________
Edit: As Embo pointed out below, the allegations don't actually say that the first student was admitted. So I was wrong to assume that. It would seem that neither student was admitted.
Per Stanford's statement, neither was admitted.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - BostonCard - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 04:48 PM)qwerty49 Wrote:(03-12-2019, 04:13 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(03-12-2019, 03:28 PM)M T Wrote: I wonder who blew the whistle and I wonder who has cooperated with the investigation. I don't know about these things, but that seemed like a very quick guilty plea from Vandemoer.
I think Ringer (the guy who instigated the whole fraud) turned state's evidence. That's why basically they have tape on everyone who was indicted.
BC
Singer, not Ringer. It just seems a bit strange that the guy behind it all rats out his clients in an obvious effort to get a better deal. I get that the clients are accessories, but the guy behind it should take a big, big fall IMO.
This is already becoming a class warfare meme on social media. People might be getting weary of rich folks subverting the system to their advantage.
We will see how this all plays out. Cooperation should buy him a more lenient sentence than what he would have otherwise gotten, but that doesn't mean he should get a more lenient sentence than everyone else. I presume he will have a lot of counts to answer for. I'm curious what the lawyers here think.
BC
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - oldalum - 03-12-2019
I thought the usual course is to turn the small fry in order to get the big fish in jail. This Singer guy seems to have been the mastermind, he IS the big fish. Maybe there's an exception when the small fry are rich parents.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - cardcrimson - 03-12-2019
How much money does Stanford have in its endowment?
A fundamental question to me is why did the sailing coach risk so much personally to find ways to support his team? If I read the indictments properly, he didn't take a dime, the kickbacks all went to support Stanford Sailing.
Wrong, yes. Illegal, yes. Unethical, yes. With so much cash available to Stanford programs in general, I'm curious as to why he felt he needed to go to such extremes for the program.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - chrisk - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 06:19 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: How much money does Stanford have in its endowment?
A fundamental question to me is why did the sailing coach risk so much personally to find ways to support his team? If I read the indictments properly, he didn't take a dime, the kickbacks all went to support Stanford Sailing.
Wrong, yes. Illegal, yes. Unethical, yes. With so much cash available to Stanford programs in general, I'm curious as to why he felt he needed to go to such extremes for the program.
Now Stanford has to figure out how to legally disgorge the tainted money.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Mick - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 04:02 PM)stupac2 Wrote:(03-12-2019, 03:28 PM)M T Wrote: The stuff about people taking tests for others reminded me of something I hadn't thought of for ages. While I was in maybe 10th grade and had good test scores, I had another athlete (not from my school) throw out something like "I don't suppose you'd take my SATs for me?". I took that as an off-the-cuff what-if thought that had no thought behind it. I could believe that person may have wanted it and may have needed it, but it was a totally not-in-this-universe idea to me which was immediately dismissed. The whole conversation was done in under a minute. But I never reported it to any adult.
I had that happen as well, but it was pretty overt, closer to "what would it take for you to take it for me?" Like you I immediately said no. I wonder how often that happens...
I wonder as well. When I was in high school, the school drug dealer paid someone to take his SAT for him, and he squeaked into a CSU based on the test score. My theory is that academic skill seeks its own level. This guy now teaches at a not-so-great elementary school. I doubt he could do better.
(03-12-2019, 06:19 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: How much money does Stanford have in its endowment?
A fundamental question to me is why did the sailing coach risk so much personally to find ways to support his team? If I read the indictments properly, he didn't take a dime, the kickbacks all went to support Stanford Sailing.
Wrong, yes. Illegal, yes. Unethical, yes. With so much cash available to Stanford programs in general, I'm curious as to why he felt he needed to go to such extremes for the program.
Perhaps he was indirectly funding his job; e.g., if they don't raise a certain amount, the program would be at risk.
I realize that this wasn't the focus of the investigation, but one paragraph caught my eye:
“There is a front door which means you get in on your own,” Singer said. “The back door is through institutional advancement, which is 10 times as much money. And I’ve created this side door in.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/12/heres-how-the-major-college-cheating-scheme-actually-worked.html
Singer created the side door, and he (and the parents and coaches) will be punished for it. But isn't the back door illegitimate as well? Doesn't it give one pause that a mega-donor can get less-qualified applicants admitted? Or is it more or less acceptable compared with the "side door options" created by Singer?
I realize that this wasn't the focus of the investigation, but one paragraph caught my eye:
“There is a front door which means you get in on your own,” Singer said. “The back door is through institutional advancement, which is 10 times as much money. And I’ve created this side door in.”
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/12/heres-how-the-major-college-cheating-scheme-actually-worked.html
Singer created the side door, and he (and the parents and coaches) will be punished for it. But isn't the back door illegitimate as well? Doesn't it give one pause that a mega-donor can get less-qualified applicants admitted? Or is it more or less acceptable compared with the "side door options" created by Singer?
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - OutsiderFan - 03-12-2019
On the issue of who tipped off investigators, the conspiracy was gigantic. Spanned from coast to coast. You have to talk with a lot of people to find school and test administrators who will go along with such blatant fraud.
Along the way you probably have to talk with a lot of people who say no to the scheme when approached by someone about participating. I'll guess that one or more of those people who thought it was wrong went to the authorities and that's what started the investigation.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - needle - 03-12-2019
As far as how the case got started, one of the people I think with the DOJ said the first lead in the case came from a "target of an entirely separate investigation."
He says this at the 20:13 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccdvZ1617vQ
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - oldalum - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 06:54 PM)Mick Wrote: But isn't the back door illegitimate as well? Doesn't it give one pause that a mega-donor can get less-qualified applicants admitted? Or is it more or less acceptable compared with the "side door options" created by Singer?I think the side door is clearly less acceptable because it is fraudulent; it is monetizing an admissions slot and only some of that money is going to a specific program (in Stanford's case), the criminal middlemen are pocketing the rest. The megabuck backdoor at least is not fraudulent per se. I can see an argument for a backdoor at a particular university if the money is necessary for and goes directly to fund admission and education of students who could not otherwise be admitted and matriculate. So you admit one rich kid and get 10 more poor ones that you otherwise wouldn't have. I don't think that argument works for Stanford or Yale, though; wonder how they justify it--the benefits to the university as a whole and everyone in it? Does anyone know how they use the money?
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 82lsju - 03-12-2019
looking at the names in the indictment and the SAA alumni database looks like a few alums were involved, names in the database matching with the locations of the indictments include
- Elisabeth (Meyer) Kimmel - '86
- William McGLASHAN - MBA '90
- Robert Zangrillo - MBA '94
more info from the Daily
https://www.stanforddaily.com/2019/03/12/stanford-affiliates-bay-area-parents-charged-in-college-admissions-bribery-scandal/
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - PalmTree - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 06:19 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: How much money does Stanford have in its endowment?
A fundamental question to me is why did the sailing coach risk so much personally to find ways to support his team? If I read the indictments properly, he didn't take a dime, the kickbacks all went to support Stanford Sailing.
Wrong, yes. Illegal, yes. Unethical, yes. With so much cash available to Stanford programs in general, I'm curious as to why he felt he needed to go to such extremes for the program.
Because most of the endowment is earmarked for VERY specific purposes by donors - I don't have exact #s but I do know that general operational support, much less sailing program support are pretty far down giving priorities for the majority of donors, including those with deep pockets. In addition, the amount of available general funds (i.e. unrestricted funding support, e.g. income from tuition revenues, indirect cost recoveries, unrestricted endowments and gifts, etc). have been increasingly squeezed in recent years, due to decreases in federal funding for sponsored research, competitive tuition pricing from peer institutions, increased operating costs for compliance programs and infrastructure, recruitment and retention programs for faculty, maintaining competitive benefits programs, etc. - it all adds up pretty quickly.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - winflop - 03-12-2019
I will take no pleasure in the involvement of schools I don't particularly like. This whole thing just stinks to high heaven and I hope every adult involved gets the book thrown at them.
Obviously not happy to see Stanford as part of this, but it appears that its involvement was minimal in that it's only one person (sailing coach) and the students he was being bribed to try to get admitted never got in. So thankfully nobody was denied admission to Stanford because of this.
The schools where AD officials were involved could be in serious trouble with the NCAA. That starts to get into "lack of institutional control" when it's beyond one or two corrupt coaches.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - chrisk - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 09:31 PM)winflop Wrote: I will take no pleasure in the involvement of schools I don't particularly like. This whole thing just stinks to high heaven and I hope every adult involved gets the book thrown at them.
Obviously not happy to see Stanford as part of this, but it appears that its involvement was minimal in that it's only one person (sailing coach) and the students he was being bribed to try to get admitted never got in. So thankfully nobody was denied admission to Stanford because of this.
The schools where AD officials were involved could be in serious trouble with the NCAA. That starts to get into "lack of institutional control" when it's beyond one or two corrupt coaches.
Wouldn't you think Bernard would be aware of a gift of $500K and want to thank the donor personally?
(03-12-2019, 08:02 PM)82lsju Wrote: looking at the names in the indictment and the SAA alumni database looks like a few alums were involved, names in the database matching with the locations of the indictments include
- Elisabeth (Meyer) Kimmel - '86
- William McGLASHAN - MBA '90
- Robert Zangrillo - MBA '94
more info from the Daily
https://www.stanforddaily.com/2019/03/12/stanford-affiliates-bay-area-parents-charged-in-college-admissions-bribery-scandal/
McGlashan was charged with working to get his son in USC as a fake punter. He is a member of the GSB Advisory Council.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 76lsjumb - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 06:19 PM)cardcrimson Wrote: How much money does Stanford have in its endowment?
A fundamental question to me is why did the sailing coach risk so much personally to find ways to support his team? If I read the indictments properly, he didn't take a dime, the kickbacks all went to support Stanford Sailing.
Wrong, yes. Illegal, yes. Unethical, yes. With so much cash available to Stanford programs in general, I'm curious as to why he felt he needed to go to such extremes for the program.
What I can't fathom is why a perennial National Champion coach in a sport that gets at least a reasonable amount of attention such as water polo, and who presumably wouldn't have much trouble in getting recruits for as long as he wants and regularly winning [or, at a minimum, being in the hunt for] national championships for as long as he wants would get within 10,000 miles of something like this?
There must be something in the water at US.C...
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - oldalum - 03-12-2019
(03-12-2019, 10:02 PM)chrisk Wrote: Wouldn't you think Bernard would be aware of a gift of $500K and want to thank the donor personally?That 500K gift was never made. The reports say one payment of $110K and another of $160K were made from a charitable foundation in southern California. From Bernie's perspective, nothing to see there, just send a thank-you letter if anything.
Mercury news story
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - fullmetal - 03-13-2019
I can see why Vandemoer would need the money even for just his program's budget if not himself personally. Sailing is a non-revenue sport, and you can imagine sailing donor support is more limited than, say, football donor support. There must be some kind of strong funding pressure from the athletic department for him to do such a thing. Vandemoer seems appropriately remorseful in pleading guilty, and I have to believe that he was a high-character person when Stanford hired him. Now that he's been let go from Stanford, maybe he's had a chance to remember what's important.
That said, the way he went about raising those funds was entirely wrong.