Cristobal leaving Oregon - Printable Version
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RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - Papa John - 12-09-2021
Oregon now up to five 2022 decommits since Cristobal left:
5-star OT Banks from TX
4-star LB Dudley from AL
4-star QB Bailey from AL
3-star EDGE Winston from OR
3-star OT Williams from TX
Ducks are still holding on to the 2nd-ranked class in the Pac-12 and 15th-ranked nationally. USC just had a decommit so they have replaced ASU in last place. Trojans only have 4 commits, but that is going to change big time I suspect. BTW, Miami's 2022 recruiting class is ranked #8 nationally.
Stanford still has the top-ranked class in the conference and is up to 9th-ranked nationally as of 10 am on December 9, 2021. Don't expect it to hold, of course, but it sure is nice to have some good recruiting news.
Back to the topic of this thread: it's 6 days until the early signing period. It will be interesting to see if/how the Ducks recover.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - Goose - 12-09-2021
(12-09-2021, 10:38 AM)needle Wrote: Wilcox + a hotshot offensive coordinator (not sure who exactly, perhaps former LSU offensive coordinator Joe Brady) would scare me as a Stanford fan.I don't think this model has worked well for Wilcox at Kal. It may be because he can't attract an "elite" coordinator at Kal and would be able to do so at Oregon. It also may be because elite coordinators don't want to work for Wilcox. The synergy required to make any football staff work well together isn't easy to generate. Oregon has been able to attract just about whoever they want player-wise but hasn't been able to extract from those players what is expected by the fans. Wilcox's history with coordinators doesn't inspire confidence that he is well suited to build such a coaching staff. He is also primarily a defensive specialist. While defense may win championships, it isn't what the Oregon fans want to see. They want lots of flash and style running up and down the field like they remember from the Kelly years. TFLs don't move them.
Couldn't judge a Wilcox hire without knowing who the OC would be.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - Phogge - 12-09-2021
No Giants, USC wanted in order:
Howard Jones
John McKay
Bill Walsh
Knute Rockne
But:....... all dead.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - gailtate - 12-09-2021
(12-09-2021, 12:01 PM)Goose Wrote:(12-09-2021, 10:38 AM)needle Wrote: Wilcox + a hotshot offensive coordinator (not sure who exactly, perhaps former LSU offensive coordinator Joe Brady) would scare me as a Stanford fan.I don't think this model has worked well for Wilcox at Kal. It may be because he can't attract an "elite" coordinator at Kal and would be able to do so at Oregon. It also may be because elite coordinators don't want to work for Wilcox. The synergy required to make any football staff work well together isn't easy to generate. Oregon has been able to attract just about whoever they want player-wise but hasn't been able to extract from those players what is expected by the fans. Wilcox's history with coordinators doesn't inspire confidence that he is well suited to build such a coaching staff. He is also primarily a defensive specialist. While defense may win championships, it isn't what the Oregon fans want to see. They want lots of flash and style running up and down the field like they remember from the Kelly years. TFLs don't move them.
Couldn't judge a Wilcox hire without knowing who the OC would be.
Duck fans, at least the dozen or so I know personally, are interested in championships. The up-tempo offense was the vehicle, but it wasn't the destination. Oregon and Phil Knight will seek and find a championship-caliber coach in short order.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - Farm93 - 12-09-2021
(12-09-2021, 12:13 PM)Phogge Wrote: No Giants, USC wanted in order:Funny, kind of...
Howard Jones
John McKay
Bill Walsh
Knute Rockne
But:....... all dead.
USC wanted a lot of bigger names, but had to settle for Riley.
Riley "seems" to check some important boxes.
He has been to the CFP.
He is young.
He has successfully recruited in Texas and in southern California.
And he likely realized staying in Oklahoma as it transitions to the SEC would be a bad career move.
And yet, Riley has started to load up his staff with coaches from the State of Oklahoma and other schools in the greater Big12 footprint.
I just can't help but wonder if that will work. In the past he got some kids from southern California that were open to leaving CA to join his program full of bling and goodies designed to wow 17 year-old kids. However, I suspect the majority of recruits from the SoCal don't really want to go to Oklahoma and also don't want Oklahoma to come to them. He will need to convince those kids that USC infused with Oklahoma region coaches is the best move for them.
It was a smart move to get out of Oklahoma, but I suspect (hope) he is a bad cultural fit for the recruits he will need to convince to attend USC.
Oregon normally would have an easier task as they have the locker room and training room goodies recruits expect, but the timing of their search is brutally bad. This might be a bad year for them, but they can easily make it up in 2023 given their recruiting is not limited by geography or academic merit.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - Goose - 12-09-2021
(12-09-2021, 12:14 PM)gailtate Wrote:You are probably much closer to Duck fans than I. What I "know" is mostly from "Addicted to Quack". Their reaction to Wilcox is "MEH". As far as finding a "championship caliber" coach, if you mean PAC-12 championships, probably. If you mean national, I am going to argue with you. They haven't done it so far.(12-09-2021, 12:01 PM)Goose Wrote:(12-09-2021, 10:38 AM)needle Wrote: Wilcox + a hotshot offensive coordinator (not sure who exactly, perhaps former LSU offensive coordinator Joe Brady) would scare me as a Stanford fan.I don't think this model has worked well for Wilcox at Kal. It may be because he can't attract an "elite" coordinator at Kal and would be able to do so at Oregon. It also may be because elite coordinators don't want to work for Wilcox. The synergy required to make any football staff work well together isn't easy to generate. Oregon has been able to attract just about whoever they want player-wise but hasn't been able to extract from those players what is expected by the fans. Wilcox's history with coordinators doesn't inspire confidence that he is well suited to build such a coaching staff. He is also primarily a defensive specialist. While defense may win championships, it isn't what the Oregon fans want to see. They want lots of flash and style running up and down the field like they remember from the Kelly years. TFLs don't move them.
Couldn't judge a Wilcox hire without knowing who the OC would be.
Duck fans, at least the dozen or so I know personally, are interested in championships. The up-tempo offense was the vehicle, but it wasn't the destination. Oregon and Phil Knight will seek and find a championship-caliber coach in short order.
A potentially interesting quote from
https://duckswire.usatoday.com/lists/oregon-ducks-head-coach-candidate-power-rankings-1-0/
"If Chip Kelly is the guy that fans want but analysts don’t then Justin Wilcox is the guy that analysts like but fans don’t. Admittedly, he has had a tough record at Cal, but he was on a strong trajectory before the COVID-19 pandemic hit. He is a good defensive coach who grew up in Oregon and played as a defensive back for the Ducks.
If Wilcox were to come to Eugene, he would need a strong offensive coordinator, but I would be interested to see what he could do with the resources that Oregon allows him. Also, it is clear that he would treat Oregon as a destination job, rather than a stepping stone."
These guys seem to think he might be a good hire but the fans do not.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - OutsiderFan - 12-09-2021
For all the flash of Oregon, the school has just 34 NCAA championships in its entire history.
And 32 of those 34 are in Track & Field and Cross Country, other than that, one in MBB and one in Women's Golf.
This idea that Oregon is where you go to win championships is simply not supported by facts. Yes, the school is competitive in a lot of sports, but it simply doesn't win national championships as a rule.
Cal has more NCAA championships (39) than Oregon, FWIW.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - BobK - 12-09-2021
Phil Knight likes Lane Kniffin
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - gailtate - 12-09-2021
(12-09-2021, 01:18 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: For all the flash of Oregon, the school has just 34 NCAA championships in its entire history.
And 32 of those 34 are in Track & Field and Cross Country, other than that, one in MBB and one in Women's Golf.
This idea that Oregon is where you go to win championships is simply not supported by facts. Yes, the school is competitive in a lot of sports, but it simply doesn't win national championships as a rule.
Cal has more NCAA championships (39) than Oregon, FWIW.
And yet, for some reason, the chattering classes in college sports seem drawn to this notion of "Duck Dynasty", esp. when it comes to football. Which is really the only sport that the great unwashed out there give a fig about. I mean, they probably think The Directors Cup is something Francis Ford Coppola or Steven Spielberg drink coffee from. Ah, again, there is no justice.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - Beeg_Dawg - 12-09-2021
Reading this thread is like deja vu 2004. Only the coaching names and athletic director have changed.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - Farm93 - 12-09-2021
(12-09-2021, 02:25 PM)gailtate Wrote:Cal has a boat load of NCAA championships in water polo, and many of those from decades ago.(12-09-2021, 01:18 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: For all the flash of Oregon, the school has just 34 NCAA championships in its entire history.
And 32 of those 34 are in Track & Field and Cross Country, other than that, one in MBB and one in Women's Golf.
This idea that Oregon is where you go to win championships is simply not supported by facts. Yes, the school is competitive in a lot of sports, but it simply doesn't win national championships as a rule.
Cal has more NCAA championships (39) than Oregon, FWIW.
And yet, for some reason, the chattering classes in college sports seem drawn to this notion of "Duck Dynasty", esp. when it comes to football. Which is really the only sport that the great unwashed out there give a fig about. I mean, they probably think The Directors Cup is something Francis Ford Coppola or Steven Spielberg drink coffee from. Ah, again, there is no justice.
Track & field is much closer to football than water polo. More critically, Knight and his company founded on track & field equipment is much more important for football prosperity than anything happening in water polo.
I am pretty confident that everyone can agree Oregon is more likely to appear in more Pac-12 CGs and the CFPs in the next 5-10 years than Cal. And for a football recruit that is all that matters well that and perhaps NIL money.
I can imagine that football recruits might fancy winning the 4X100, or getting NIL money from Knight, or getting NIL opportunities from all of those sporting goods companies that linger around the University of Oregon each year for the national track and field championships. Does Cal really have any opportunities for NIL? Does Cal have any chance at even getting into the CFP conversation?
If Wilcox can be ~.500 at Cal, he can be a ~.700+ coach at Oregon. And once in that realm a program can win conference titles and possibly get into the CFP with a bit of luck.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - gailtate - 12-09-2021
(12-09-2021, 03:26 PM)Farm93 Wrote:(12-09-2021, 02:25 PM)gailtate Wrote:Cal has a boat load of NCAA championships in water polo, and many of those from decades ago.(12-09-2021, 01:18 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: For all the flash of Oregon, the school has just 34 NCAA championships in its entire history.
And 32 of those 34 are in Track & Field and Cross Country, other than that, one in MBB and one in Women's Golf.
This idea that Oregon is where you go to win championships is simply not supported by facts. Yes, the school is competitive in a lot of sports, but it simply doesn't win national championships as a rule.
Cal has more NCAA championships (39) than Oregon, FWIW.
And yet, for some reason, the chattering classes in college sports seem drawn to this notion of "Duck Dynasty", esp. when it comes to football. Which is really the only sport that the great unwashed out there give a fig about. I mean, they probably think The Directors Cup is something Francis Ford Coppola or Steven Spielberg drink coffee from. Ah, again, there is no justice.
Track & field is much closer to football than water polo. More critically, Knight and his company founded on track & field equipment is much more important for football prosperity than anything happening in water polo.
I am pretty confident that everyone can agree Oregon is more likely to appear in more Pac-12 CGs and the CFPs in the next 5-10 years than Cal. And for a football recruit that is all that matters well that and perhaps NIL money.
I can imagine that football recruits might fancy winning the 4X100, or getting NIL money from Knight, or getting NIL opportunities from all of those sporting goods companies that linger around the University of Oregon each year for the national track and field championships. Does Cal really have any opportunities for NIL? Does Cal have any chance at even getting into the CFP conversation?
If Wilcox can be ~.500 at Cal, he can be a ~.700+ coach at Oregon. And once in that realm a program can win conference titles and possibly get into the CFP with a bit of luck.
+1, for damn sure.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - Goose - 12-09-2021
(12-09-2021, 03:26 PM)Farm93 Wrote: If Wilcox can be ~.500 at Cal, he can be a ~.700+ coach at Oregon. And once in that realm a program can win conference titles and possibly get into the CFP with a bit of luck.Well, a .7 winning percentage is 8.4 wins per year. 8 Wins won't do it, but if one allows for the up and down it would yield a few conference championships. However, the glaring problem is that Wilcox is 15-25 in the conference at Kal. That is far short of .500 and even with a significant bump for being at Oregon he would lose more conference games than he wins. That won't get it done. He would gain by playing Kal instead of Oregon, but the reality is that losing 3 conference games per year isn't going to work. In fact, losing 2 generally doesn't work. I think one would have to argue for a much greater improvement to make this argument plausible.
All that said, it seems there is a bit of momentum building behind the Wilcox candidacy, although that may or may not signify anything as far aw Oregon's actual intentions.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - yvonne - 12-09-2021
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFTCommenter/status/1469065848019169287?s=20[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/johncanzanobft/status/1469050229928300547?s=20[/tweet]
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - yvonne - 12-09-2021
Could be a ploy for an extension at UCLA.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/JHWreporter/status/1469156972515655681?s=20[/tweet]
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - Beeg_Dawg - 12-10-2021
(12-09-2021, 11:14 PM)yvonne Wrote: Could be a ploy for an extension at UCLA.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/JHWreporter/status/1469156972515655681?s=20[/tweet]
When Kelly left Oregon, wasn't there some NCAA issue that caused him to jump? Similar to Pete Carroll leaving USC? If that is so, doesn't the NCAA violation follow him back to Oregon?
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - 82lsju - 12-10-2021
(12-10-2021, 08:46 AM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote:(12-09-2021, 11:14 PM)yvonne Wrote: Could be a ploy for an extension at UCLA.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/JHWreporter/status/1469156972515655681?s=20[/tweet]
When Kelly left Oregon, wasn't there some NCAA issue that caused him to jump? Similar to Pete Carroll leaving USC? If that is so, doesn't the NCAA violation follow him back to Oregon?
Quote:You no doubt have heard by now that the NCAA levied sanctions against the University of Oregon football program over recruiting violations between 2008 and 2011. You no doubt have heard this because the big story from the ruling locally was Eagles head coach Chip Kelly is prevented from returning to the Ducks or college football within 18 months of the penalty without first appealing to a Committee of Infractions – the so-called “show-cause penalty.”
...
The only way the show-cause penalty comes into play is if he quits the Eagles or is fired after one season. Seeing how much the organization wanted Kelly, they’ll definitely give him more than one year barring unforeseen and catastrophic circumstances. As for his running back to college, it could happen – as it did to Bobby Petrino with some years back – but Chip probably has too much pride for that. Even Steve Spurrier made it two seasons in the NFL.
https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/what-exactly-did-chip-kelly-do-warrant-ncaa-sanctions-not-much
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - DC 86 - 12-10-2021
(12-10-2021, 08:46 AM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote: When Kelly left Oregon, wasn't there some NCAA issue that caused him to jump? Similar to Pete Carroll leaving USC? If that is so, doesn't the NCAA violation follow him back to Oregon?
If there was a show cause preventing him from coaching college football he couldn't have been hired at UCLA. Those aren't specific to a university.
Pete Carroll left USC because he knew the sanctions would make it very hard to keep winning there, not because he was going to receive a show cause (the penalties had already come down and Todd McNair took the hit.)
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - Giants - 12-10-2021
(12-10-2021, 10:52 AM)DC 86 Wrote:(12-10-2021, 08:46 AM)Beeg_Dawg Wrote: When Kelly left Oregon, wasn't there some NCAA issue that caused him to jump? Similar to Pete Carroll leaving USC? If that is so, doesn't the NCAA violation follow him back to Oregon?
If there was a show cause preventing him from coaching college football he couldn't have been hired at UCLA. Those aren't specific to a university.
Pete Carroll left USC because he knew the sanctions would make it very hard to keep winning there, not because he was going to receive a show cause (the penalties had already come down and Todd McNair took the hit.)
A show-cause does not necessarily preclude a guy from coaching during the time it is effective, it only means that the coach must plead his case to the NCAA and they may or may not waive the penalty.
RE: Cristobal leaving Oregon - Papa John - 12-10-2021
Oregon now up to seven 2022 decommits since Cristobal left:
5-star OT Banks from TX
4-star LB Dudley from AL
4-star QB Bailey from AL
4-star CB Florence from San Diego
3-star EDGE Winston from OR
3-star OT Williams from TX
3-star S Hullaby from TX
Ducks are still, somehow, holding on to the 2nd-ranked class in the Pac-12--right above surging Arizona--but have fallen to 22nd-ranked nationally. Miami's 2022 recruiting class, with only 8 commits, is now ranked #10 in the ACC.
5 days until the early signing period.