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How many wake up calls does this team need? - Printable Version

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Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-29-2012

(10-29-2012, 08:43 AM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:Ah, yes. Irrefutable evidence: scrimmage numbers. Of course, take Nunes' best two games and he's a future NFL QB.

But you're right, the most likely scenario is that Shaw is purposefully sabotaging his own team and career prospects because of some beef between him and a twenty-year-old, based on some stuff in practice and a nice profile or two. Careful evidentiary work--you've cracked the case!

EDIT: Of course it's possible that there is some sort of scenario in which Shaw and Nottingham are feuding for some stupid reason, or there's some other personal reason or whatever. However, besides speculation, there's about zero evidence for this position. Given that there's no evidence of Shaw acting in such a petty manner in the past, this doesn't seem terribly likely. But some people believe in fairy godmothers, I guess...

LOL. There's zero evidence that Nunes is the best QB on the team, b/c Shaw hasn't given the backup PT -- not even a series, really. Did you see the two scrimmages? Have you seen Nottingham's release compared to Nunes'? I'll concede that it's possible that Nunes is the best on-field QB we have. But it's squarely on the coach's shoulders to confirm that, given how poorly Nunes has played without improving or gaining confidence (did you see Nunes' face after last Saturday's game, by any chance?).

Given what I've seen of the two QBs, I hope to God there's something else to the story, b/c if Shaw has chosen Nunes in favor of what he feels is "risk avoidance" over talent, then I'm really worried.

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-29-2012

(10-29-2012, 08:43 AM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:Ah, yes. Irrefutable evidence: scrimmage numbers. Of course, take Nunes' best two games and he's a future NFL QB.

But you're right, the most likely scenario is that Shaw is purposefully sabotaging his own team and career prospects because of some beef between him and a twenty-year-old, based on some stuff in practice and a nice profile or two. Careful evidentiary work--you've cracked the case!

EDIT: Of course it's possible that there is some sort of scenario in which Shaw and Nottingham are feuding for some stupid reason, or there's some other personal reason or whatever. However, besides speculation, there's about zero evidence for this position. Given that there's no evidence of Shaw acting in such a petty manner in the past, this doesn't seem terribly likely. But some people believe in fairy godmothers, I guess...

LOL. There's zero evidence that Nunes is the best QB on the team, b/c Shaw hasn't given the backup PT -- not even a series, really. Did you see the two scrimmages? Have you seen Nottingham's release compared to Nunes'? I'll concede that it's possible that Nunes is the best on-field QB we have. But it's squarely on the coach's shoulders to confirm that, given how poorly Nunes has played without improving or gaining confidence (did you see Nunes' face after last Saturday's game, by any chance?).

Given what I've seen of the two QBs, I hope to God there's something else to the story, b/c if Shaw has chosen Nunes in favor of what he feels is "risk avoidance" over talent, then I'm really worried.

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-29-2012

(10-29-2012, 09:53 AM)Yvonne link Wrote:I've wondered whether Nottingham is in the doghouse for some reason that hasn't been disclosed to the public.

Seems only reasonable to wonder, given how this has played out; how Shaw has treated the backup so strangely, first saying how close the race was between Nunes and Nottingham, then not even naming the backup; I sometimes forget Nottingham's even on the team, the way Shaw talks about his QB unit.

All the praise Shaw doled out to Nunes for managing the game better -- what about the delays of game? what about not checking down? what about denying his receivers YAC? what about not hitting Shaw's completion % base? Don't most if not all of these fall under game management? To this fan it doesn't all add up. To others it might. Fine, each to their own.

But I'll keep rooting for whoever's out there. Not Nunes' fault, I can see that he takes this very seriously and is trying his level best.

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-29-2012

(10-29-2012, 09:53 AM)Yvonne link Wrote:I've wondered whether Nottingham is in the doghouse for some reason that hasn't been disclosed to the public.

Seems only reasonable to wonder, given how this has played out; how Shaw has treated the backup so strangely, first saying how close the race was between Nunes and Nottingham, then not even naming the backup; I sometimes forget Nottingham's even on the team, the way Shaw talks about his QB unit.

All the praise Shaw doled out to Nunes for managing the game better -- what about the delays of game? what about not checking down? what about denying his receivers YAC? what about not hitting Shaw's completion % base? Don't most if not all of these fall under game management? To this fan it doesn't all add up. To others it might. Fine, each to their own.

But I'll keep rooting for whoever's out there. Not Nunes' fault, I can see that he takes this very seriously and is trying his level best.

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-29-2012

(10-29-2012, 10:29 AM)garvin link Wrote:Everybody here has blamed the delay penalties on Nunes. I'm inclined to blame the coaching staff. Hogan got a delay penalty in the 59er game; there was that fourth down play where our defense wasn't even lined up when the 59ers snapped the ball, because everybody was staring over at the bench; and against WSU, Nunes several times didn't turn away from the sideline until the play clock was down around 10 seconds or so -- obvious enough that even Coy Wire up in the broadcast booth noticed it.

And even if the bench is signaling the play promptly and the problem is that Nunes is having trouble reading it, I think at this point in the season, that's on the coaches, too. If your system is too complicated for the guy you want to play at quarterback, then you need to simplify the system.

Yep, good points, have to agree. But a fair number of times, too, Nunes is standing under center, looking out over the D, and the clock keeps ticking down. Sometimes he's gotten off, other times not. Yet other times, there's clearly a communication problem between the coaches and offensive unit, no question, which falls on the coaches.

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-29-2012

(10-29-2012, 10:29 AM)garvin link Wrote:Everybody here has blamed the delay penalties on Nunes. I'm inclined to blame the coaching staff. Hogan got a delay penalty in the 59er game; there was that fourth down play where our defense wasn't even lined up when the 59ers snapped the ball, because everybody was staring over at the bench; and against WSU, Nunes several times didn't turn away from the sideline until the play clock was down around 10 seconds or so -- obvious enough that even Coy Wire up in the broadcast booth noticed it.

And even if the bench is signaling the play promptly and the problem is that Nunes is having trouble reading it, I think at this point in the season, that's on the coaches, too. If your system is too complicated for the guy you want to play at quarterback, then you need to simplify the system.

Yep, good points, have to agree. But a fair number of times, too, Nunes is standing under center, looking out over the D, and the clock keeps ticking down. Sometimes he's gotten off, other times not. Yet other times, there's clearly a communication problem between the coaches and offensive unit, no question, which falls on the coaches.

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - teejers1 - 10-30-2012

1.  Lucke2BeHere's early rant admonishes those complaining about Nunes to stay home and watch SC on TV.  That is precisely the longer-term problem.  This offensive output - reminiscent of the WORST days under Teevens/Harris - will keep people away.  It's just so freaking ugly to watch, especially when (as now), the output is WAY below the talent.  In a word, the offense is underperforming.

2.  There is no good answer as to why a backup QB has not been given a serious look this season.  [Hell, our intramural QB from back in the day could pass much better/more accurately than our starting QB (of course, he was a damn good HS QB from Colorado, but not anywhere near the talent of the man at QB then, John Elway).].  Yes, it's true none of us has been watching practice day-in and day-out, but that is almost a non-sequitur.  There are 3 other guys on the depth chart.  Given the game day performance of the #1 guy, somebody else should have been given a look by now.  We must have the one coach in America who refuses to do that.  (And btw, citing Les Miles as an example of anything is not good - at least from this vantage point).

3.  Agree with garvin that a lot of the delay of game penalties we've seen to date are attributable to the sideline.  However, I thought the speed of relaying the calls into the offense was MUCH better against WSU (maybe because it was the same running play 60% of the time?), and the one delay penalty was squarely on Nunes.  He dicked around at the LOS and lost awareness of the play clock.

4.  If this offense doesn't improve significantly - you know, somewhere around 400 yards/game - then none of us has to worry about Stanford getting to 9-3.  7-5 is the more likely outcome, and as WSU showed, even 6-6 is in play.


3. 

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - teejers1 - 10-30-2012

1.  Lucke2BeHere's early rant admonishes those complaining about Nunes to stay home and watch SC on TV.  That is precisely the longer-term problem.  This offensive output - reminiscent of the WORST days under Teevens/Harris - will keep people away.  It's just so freaking ugly to watch, especially when (as now), the output is WAY below the talent.  In a word, the offense is underperforming.

2.  There is no good answer as to why a backup QB has not been given a serious look this season.  [Hell, our intramural QB from back in the day could pass much better/more accurately than our starting QB (of course, he was a damn good HS QB from Colorado, but not anywhere near the talent of the man at QB then, John Elway).].  Yes, it's true none of us has been watching practice day-in and day-out, but that is almost a non-sequitur.  There are 3 other guys on the depth chart.  Given the game day performance of the #1 guy, somebody else should have been given a look by now.  We must have the one coach in America who refuses to do that.  (And btw, citing Les Miles as an example of anything is not good - at least from this vantage point).

3.  Agree with garvin that a lot of the delay of game penalties we've seen to date are attributable to the sideline.  However, I thought the speed of relaying the calls into the offense was MUCH better against WSU (maybe because it was the same running play 60% of the time?), and the one delay penalty was squarely on Nunes.  He dicked around at the LOS and lost awareness of the play clock.

4.  If this offense doesn't improve significantly - you know, somewhere around 400 yards/game - then none of us has to worry about Stanford getting to 9-3.  7-5 is the more likely outcome, and as WSU showed, even 6-6 is in play.


3. 

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-30-2012

(10-30-2012, 11:07 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:1.  Lucke2BeHere's early rant admonishes those complaining about Nunes to stay home and watch SC on TV.  That is precisely the longer-term problem.  This offensive output - reminiscent of the WORST days under Teevens/Harris - will keep people away.  It's just so freaking ugly to watch, especially when (as now), the output is WAY below the talent.  In a word, the offense is underperforming.

2.  There is no good answer as to why a backup QB has not been given a serious look this season.  [Hell, our intramural QB from back in the day could pass much better/more accurately than our starting QB (of course, he was a damn good HS QB from Colorado, but not anywhere near the talent of the man at QB then, John Elway).].  Yes, it's true none of us has been watching practice day-in and day-out, but that is almost a non-sequitur.  There are 3 other guys on the depth chart.  Given the game day performance of the #1 guy, somebody else should have been given a look by now.  We must have the one coach in America who refuses to do that.  (And btw, citing Les Miles as an example of anything is not good - at least from this vantage point).

3.  Agree with garvin that a lot of the delay of game penalties we've seen to date are attributable to the sideline.  However, I thought the speed of relaying the calls into the offense was MUCH better against WSU (maybe because it was the same running play 60% of the time?), and the one delay penalty was squarely on Nunes.  He dicked around at the LOS and lost awareness of the play clock.

4.  If this offense doesn't improve significantly - you know, somewhere around 400 yards/game - then none of us has to worry about Stanford getting to 9-3.  7-5 is the more likely outcome, and as WSU showed, even 6-6 is in play.

I sure would like to know the backstory to Nottingham's disappearance. I've heard plenty of rumors, but I won't believe or reiterate anything unless/until there is more substance and clarity, if either ever comes. But, without wishing ill of anyone involved, I do hope that Shaw's hands have been somehow tied this season, forcing him to play the cards dealt him in the seemingly strange way he has thus far. It wouldn't absolve or explain away everything, but it would give me some hope for Shaw going forward.

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - AlbanyCardinal - 10-30-2012

(10-30-2012, 11:07 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:1.  Lucke2BeHere's early rant admonishes those complaining about Nunes to stay home and watch SC on TV.  That is precisely the longer-term problem.  This offensive output - reminiscent of the WORST days under Teevens/Harris - will keep people away.  It's just so freaking ugly to watch, especially when (as now), the output is WAY below the talent.  In a word, the offense is underperforming.

2.  There is no good answer as to why a backup QB has not been given a serious look this season.  [Hell, our intramural QB from back in the day could pass much better/more accurately than our starting QB (of course, he was a damn good HS QB from Colorado, but not anywhere near the talent of the man at QB then, John Elway).].  Yes, it's true none of us has been watching practice day-in and day-out, but that is almost a non-sequitur.  There are 3 other guys on the depth chart.  Given the game day performance of the #1 guy, somebody else should have been given a look by now.  We must have the one coach in America who refuses to do that.  (And btw, citing Les Miles as an example of anything is not good - at least from this vantage point).

3.  Agree with garvin that a lot of the delay of game penalties we've seen to date are attributable to the sideline.  However, I thought the speed of relaying the calls into the offense was MUCH better against WSU (maybe because it was the same running play 60% of the time?), and the one delay penalty was squarely on Nunes.  He dicked around at the LOS and lost awareness of the play clock.

4.  If this offense doesn't improve significantly - you know, somewhere around 400 yards/game - then none of us has to worry about Stanford getting to 9-3.  7-5 is the more likely outcome, and as WSU showed, even 6-6 is in play.

I sure would like to know the backstory to Nottingham's disappearance. I've heard plenty of rumors, but I won't believe or reiterate anything unless/until there is more substance and clarity, if either ever comes. But, without wishing ill of anyone involved, I do hope that Shaw's hands have been somehow tied this season, forcing him to play the cards dealt him in the seemingly strange way he has thus far. It wouldn't absolve or explain away everything, but it would give me some hope for Shaw going forward.

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - LuckE2Bhere - 10-31-2012

(10-30-2012, 11:07 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:Lucke2BeHere's early rant admonishes those complaining about Nunes to stay home and watch SC on TV.  That is precisely the longer-term problem.  This offensive output - reminiscent of the WORST days under Teevens/Harris - will keep people away.  It's just so freaking ugly to watch, especially when (as now), the output is WAY below the talent.  In a word, the offense is underperforming.

I'd prefer to think that I answered a question with a pertinent answer, but if you want to call it a rant, feel free ;-)

In any case, for some reason, SEC football seems to get decent ratings, even when its best teams play better defense than offense, no?  I had a close friend when I was in school whose dad was the interim AD at Stanford, and he told me he'd occasionally hear "rants" from certain alums who essentially suggested that they'd "rather lose every game 47-48, but see our QB throw lots of TDs, than win every game 9-7".  To each his own, I guess...  ::)

Maybe I'm old school (in an understanding how they actually determine championships kind of way), but there is a lot more to football than just offense, and that's not the only part of the game that many fans enjoy watching.  I'd like to think you are seriously underestimating the sophistication of the broader (than just Elway-nostalgic Stanford alums) spectrum of football fans. 

Maynard completed 63% of passes (with a healthy 9 yards / attempt and 2:1 TD/INT ratio) in losing to freakin' Utah last week... is that really what you think will fill our stadium?!?




Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - LuckE2Bhere - 10-31-2012

(10-30-2012, 11:07 AM)teejers1 link Wrote:Lucke2BeHere's early rant admonishes those complaining about Nunes to stay home and watch SC on TV.  That is precisely the longer-term problem.  This offensive output - reminiscent of the WORST days under Teevens/Harris - will keep people away.  It's just so freaking ugly to watch, especially when (as now), the output is WAY below the talent.  In a word, the offense is underperforming.

I'd prefer to think that I answered a question with a pertinent answer, but if you want to call it a rant, feel free ;-)

In any case, for some reason, SEC football seems to get decent ratings, even when its best teams play better defense than offense, no?  I had a close friend when I was in school whose dad was the interim AD at Stanford, and he told me he'd occasionally hear "rants" from certain alums who essentially suggested that they'd "rather lose every game 47-48, but see our QB throw lots of TDs, than win every game 9-7".  To each his own, I guess...  ::)

Maybe I'm old school (in an understanding how they actually determine championships kind of way), but there is a lot more to football than just offense, and that's not the only part of the game that many fans enjoy watching.  I'd like to think you are seriously underestimating the sophistication of the broader (than just Elway-nostalgic Stanford alums) spectrum of football fans. 

Maynard completed 63% of passes (with a healthy 9 yards / attempt and 2:1 TD/INT ratio) in losing to freakin' Utah last week... is that really what you think will fill our stadium?!?




Re: It's not Nunes, it's Shaw... - LuckE2Bhere - 10-31-2012

(10-28-2012, 05:19 PM)LuckE2Bhere link Wrote:[quote author=AlbanyCardinal link=topic=6762.msg50723#msg50723 date=1351399532]
Find me a coach that would tolerate what we've seen thus far from the QB position.

Les Miles (LSU 2010) - team finished the season ranked #8 in the nation, with an 11-2 record, and played in the National Championship game the next year.  Heard of him/them?

Thanks to a great final game in the Cotton Bowl, in which he threw 3 TDs, Jordan Jefferson (who recently reintroduced himself to his local police department), finished the season completing 56% of his passes for 6.75 yards/attempt and 7 TDs (including the aforementioned 3) against 10 INTs.  Makes Nunes look like Peyton Manning!?! 

Ohh...  and while that apparent-idiot, Les Miles, started him in all 13 games that seaon, Jarrett Lee played in 12 of them (since all smart coaches do that when their starter struggles).  Lee threw all of 2 TDs and had a Y/A ratio of 6.44.

I'm not saying Shaw is right.  May he is just plain stubborn?  I don't know him personally, but neither do most of you, and I'm confident that he's seen our alternatives run this offense a few more times than any of us have.  Maybe he just doesn't want to win games, so he's intentionally keeping his best QB option off of the field?!?

Y'all... let's just accept the fact that we're playing Es-Ee-See football (great defense with an often-frustrating offense) this season!  While I'm still sorely disappointed by the Washington loss, I'll take were where are in the Pac-12 standings and national rankings right now -- Go Cardinal!
[/quote]

One thing I can add with a fair degree of confidence: Nunes will probably not spend this weekend in prison! 
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/arrest-lands-former-lsu-quarterback-231949785--ncaaf.html

Now back to the speculation...
Maybe Shaw isn't completely stubborn?
Maybe he did keep watching his players practice after the Cardinal-White scrimmage?
Maybe he does want to win these games too?
Maybe the simple absence of Nunes from the huddle will lead us to the BCS Championship to which we are inherently entitled!!!  :D





Re: It's not Nunes, it's Shaw... - LuckE2Bhere - 10-31-2012

(10-28-2012, 05:19 PM)LuckE2Bhere link Wrote:[quote author=AlbanyCardinal link=topic=6762.msg50723#msg50723 date=1351399532]
Find me a coach that would tolerate what we've seen thus far from the QB position.

Les Miles (LSU 2010) - team finished the season ranked #8 in the nation, with an 11-2 record, and played in the National Championship game the next year.  Heard of him/them?

Thanks to a great final game in the Cotton Bowl, in which he threw 3 TDs, Jordan Jefferson (who recently reintroduced himself to his local police department), finished the season completing 56% of his passes for 6.75 yards/attempt and 7 TDs (including the aforementioned 3) against 10 INTs.  Makes Nunes look like Peyton Manning!?! 

Ohh...  and while that apparent-idiot, Les Miles, started him in all 13 games that seaon, Jarrett Lee played in 12 of them (since all smart coaches do that when their starter struggles).  Lee threw all of 2 TDs and had a Y/A ratio of 6.44.

I'm not saying Shaw is right.  May he is just plain stubborn?  I don't know him personally, but neither do most of you, and I'm confident that he's seen our alternatives run this offense a few more times than any of us have.  Maybe he just doesn't want to win games, so he's intentionally keeping his best QB option off of the field?!?

Y'all... let's just accept the fact that we're playing Es-Ee-See football (great defense with an often-frustrating offense) this season!  While I'm still sorely disappointed by the Washington loss, I'll take were where are in the Pac-12 standings and national rankings right now -- Go Cardinal!
[/quote]

One thing I can add with a fair degree of confidence: Nunes will probably not spend this weekend in prison! 
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/arrest-lands-former-lsu-quarterback-231949785--ncaaf.html

Now back to the speculation...
Maybe Shaw isn't completely stubborn?
Maybe he did keep watching his players practice after the Cardinal-White scrimmage?
Maybe he does want to win these games too?
Maybe the simple absence of Nunes from the huddle will lead us to the BCS Championship to which we are inherently entitled!!!  :D





Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - teejers1 - 10-31-2012

Comparing Stanford (and its football experience) to SEC schools (and their football experience) . . . yep, that's the ticket! 

C'mon.  Do you really even want to go there?

And no, you don't need a 45 ppg offense (especially with a D like the one the Cardinal has).  But 250 yards of total offense is a sure way to doom the Stanford football program, even with a near-great D like the one Stanford has now. 



Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - teejers1 - 10-31-2012

Comparing Stanford (and its football experience) to SEC schools (and their football experience) . . . yep, that's the ticket! 

C'mon.  Do you really even want to go there?

And no, you don't need a 45 ppg offense (especially with a D like the one the Cardinal has).  But 250 yards of total offense is a sure way to doom the Stanford football program, even with a near-great D like the one Stanford has now. 



Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - LuckE2Bhere - 10-31-2012

I don't think I remotely attempted to compare us "to SEC schools".  I'm simply arguing that there's more than one way to win football games, and that fans will and do watch and attend the games of those whose strength (in any given year) may be on the defensive side of the ball.  Of course, I'd love to have Andrew Luck every year too (I named my dog after him, for crying out loud), but I'm trying to live in the real world.

I think someone recently pointed out that our team QB rating is on par with (or likely better than) that of Michigan's right now.  They're still selling more than 100,000 tickets to every home game.  Does that "school comparison" make you feel less uncomfortable?

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - LuckE2Bhere - 10-31-2012

I don't think I remotely attempted to compare us "to SEC schools".  I'm simply arguing that there's more than one way to win football games, and that fans will and do watch and attend the games of those whose strength (in any given year) may be on the defensive side of the ball.  Of course, I'd love to have Andrew Luck every year too (I named my dog after him, for crying out loud), but I'm trying to live in the real world.

I think someone recently pointed out that our team QB rating is on par with (or likely better than) that of Michigan's right now.  They're still selling more than 100,000 tickets to every home game.  Does that "school comparison" make you feel less uncomfortable?

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - yvonne - 10-31-2012

It'll take many years of winning to get a fan base as interested as Michigan's. That fan base is involved enough to show up even when the team loses, but it took many years of winning tradition to establish that base. It doesn't hurt that the school has a large number of undergraduates, either.

It's great to have a dynamic defense, but the offense has to be able to sustain drives and move the ball. When Toby was running most downs and turning third and long into a running down, we were interested, but we were able to sustain drives and his running was exciting. We need playmakers, and a quarterback can be the base of an exciting offense.

Re: How many wake up calls does this team need? - yvonne - 10-31-2012

It'll take many years of winning to get a fan base as interested as Michigan's. That fan base is involved enough to show up even when the team loses, but it took many years of winning tradition to establish that base. It doesn't hurt that the school has a large number of undergraduates, either.

It's great to have a dynamic defense, but the offense has to be able to sustain drives and move the ball. When Toby was running most downs and turning third and long into a running down, we were interested, but we were able to sustain drives and his running was exciting. We need playmakers, and a quarterback can be the base of an exciting offense.