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OT: The deflategate report - Printable Version

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Re: OT: The deflategate report - teejers1 - 05-15-2015

The Patriots (including Brady) are lying, cheating dogs!  Great football team - HoF coach, HoF QB, and deserving Super Bowl winners. 

But that doesn't alter the fact that they cheat.  Maybe not in some grand manner - like PEDs - but for whatever reason, the Pats feel the need to play beyond the rules.  Spygate, deflated balls (which, btw, could have been going on a LOT longer than we know about), and who knows what else.

Mind-boggling from this angle.  Is the drive to win (regardless of the rules) that consuming?  Is there some insecurity that "we can't win unless we do _____"?  Again, hard to understand the psychology at work.

Re: OT: The deflategate report - Bruce Wang - 05-15-2015

The Pats are in a hole and they need to stop digging.

I'm surprised nobody in Patriots Nation has pointed out the most obvious sign of Ted Wells's evilness: his silent film villain mustache.

[Image: ted-wells-051315.jpg]


Re: OT: The deflategate report - Hurlburt88 - 05-16-2015

I wonder if in a few years when the smoke has cleared if someone with a Stanford angle might be able to get Gaffney's take on all this

punishment overturned. - Rally - 09-03-2015

Well, I guess the League could appeal.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2015/09/03/tom-brady-beats-nfl-in-deflategate-case/

Re: OT: The deflategate report - Leftcoast - 09-03-2015

They are saying they will appeal to preserve their CBA.

Can any of the Cardboard legal folks comment on why the courts would choose to intervene in a case like this?  It seems to me that the NFL should have the right under the negotiated CBA to suspend players as they see fit but I'm not a lawyer.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/09/03/deflategate-tom-brady-roger-goodell-judge-richard-overturned-berman-new-england/71504142/

As I understand it the judge didn't absolve Brady of wrongdoing but criticized the leagues enforcement and notification.  The below sentence suggests the judge tacitly accepts that Brady knew what was happening.

Quote:Berman’s ruling accepted the union’s argument that Brady had no notice that a “general awareness” of misconduct by others could lead to discipline. That was the basis of the original suspension levied by NFL senior vice president Troy Vincent. Goodell determined in his arbitration award that Brady had participated in “a scheme to tamper with footballs.”


Re: OT: The deflategate report - stupac2 - 09-03-2015

(09-03-2015, 10:55 AM)leftcoast link Wrote:They are saying they will appeal to preserve their CBA.

Can any of the Cardboard legal folks comment on why the courts would choose to intervene in a case like this?  It seems to me that the NFL should have the right under the negotiated CBA to suspend players as they see fit but I'm not a lawyer.

The entire point of a CBA is that it constrains what management can do. The judge found that the NFL did not act within these constraints.

Re: OT: The deflategate report - Roberton3 - 09-03-2015

(09-03-2015, 10:55 AM)leftcoast link Wrote:The below sentence suggests the judge tacitly accepts that Brady knew what was happening.

Quote:Berman’s ruling accepted the union’s argument that Brady had no notice that a “general awareness” of misconduct by others could lead to discipline. That was the basis of the original suspension levied by NFL senior vice president Troy Vincent. Goodell determined in his arbitration award that Brady had participated in “a scheme to tamper with footballs.”

I think you're misinterpreting that -- reading something into it that isn't there.  The judge ruled that the NFL couldn't suspend Brady based on "general awareness" of misconduct by others.  If he rules that, then it doesn't matter whether Brady knew what was happening or not.  The reason the opinion doesn't address whether Brady knew or not isn't that the judge accepts it, it's that it's legally irrelevant.

Re: OT: The deflategate report - fullmetal - 09-03-2015

Should have drafted Brady in the 10th rd of my fantasy league last night instead of Roethlisberger in the 5th rd :(  It was a 14-player league...

Re: OT: The deflategate report - SeattleTree - 09-03-2015

Another athlete who may have won in a court of law, but lost big time in the court of public opinion. 

Re: OT: The deflategate report - Mick - 09-03-2015

(09-03-2015, 11:59 AM)SeattleTree link Wrote:Another athlete who may have won in a court of law, but lost big time in the court of public opinion.


Speaking of which, Shoeless Joe Jackson (who, along with the rest of the Black Sox won in court, but were kicked out of baseball anyways) was denied reinstatement two days ago by MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred.

Re: OT: The deflategate report - FarmBoy - 09-03-2015

Quote:Another athlete who may have won in a court of law, but lost big time in the court of public opinion.

I live in Boston, so it's hard for me to tell. Has public opinion really gone against TB? I dislike the Pats, but even I have to admit that the NFL seems to severely overreached on this whole process. Their evidence is thin at best. I think the Pats were tampering and he was "generally aware", but the NFL screwed up the investigation and just don't have enough to take action.

But in the end, like Luck said, Brady probably does give a shi't what any fans think. The ones who buy his jersey are behind him more than ever. He has a beautiful, successful wife. Healthy kids. And 4 rings. Public opinion can't do anything to him.

Re: OT: The deflategate report - washingtonismoney - 09-03-2015

Public opinion in the circles I run in has been vehemently anti-Goodell.

Re: OT: The deflategate report - dabigv13 - 09-03-2015

I think public opinion in my circles is both anti Brady and anti Goodell.

Re: OT: The deflategate report - Roberton3 - 09-03-2015

My impression is that almost no one has changed their mind about Brady because of "deflategate".  The ones who didn't like him before like him even less now.  The ones who liked him before still like him just as much.  And the ones who didn't care about him before still don't care.

Goodell seems to have lost a lot of support, because his decisions look arbitrary and inconsistent.

Re: OT: The deflategate report - CTcard - 09-03-2015

(09-03-2015, 10:55 AM)leftcoast link Wrote:Can any of the Cardboard legal folks comment on why the courts would choose to intervene in a case like this?  It seems to me that the NFL should have the right under the negotiated CBA to suspend players as they see fit but I'm not a lawyer.

The article first linked here about Brady winning doesn't really contain much legal reasoning.

The actual judgement is available to read.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2330130/judge-dismisses-tom-bradys-four-game-suspension.pdf

My reading of the critical issues in the mind of the judge is that he cared most about which part of the CBA any possible violation would be subject.  The league claimed that Brady's offense fell under the clause of a "threat to the integrity of the game" and therefore subject to penalties that include suspension whereas Brady claimed that any possible violation came would come under the clause describing violations of rules on a players' uniform or equipment and thus would be subject only to fines.
At the least, the judge decided that the league didn't make it's case for the former.




Re: OT: The deflategate report - BostonCard - 09-03-2015

(09-03-2015, 12:17 PM)FarmBoy link Wrote:But in the end, like Luck said, Brady probably does give a shi't what any fans think. The ones who buy his jersey are behind him more than ever. He has a beautiful, successful wife. Healthy kids. And 4 rings. Public opinion can't do anything to him.

Maybe not for long (on the beautiful successful wife).

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/tom-brady-gisele-bundchen-marriage-trouble-report-article-1.2345561

(though consider the source).

BC

Re: OT: The deflategate report - fullmetal - 09-03-2015

These days, "troubled" is the default state of celebrity marriages unless otherwise proven.

Re: OT: The deflategate report - BostonCard - 09-03-2015

Thanks for the link CTCard.  I suppose the judgment is reasonable given the facts and the letter of the CBA.  I do think there is a bit of a difference between being generally aware of someone else cheating (say, witnessing someone injecting steroids in their butt), versus being generally aware that footballs are being deflated, presumably so you can throw them better.

Be that as it may, I hope this doesn't drag on further.  I'm not a fan of Brady, and I generally believe the Wells report.  However, the "integrity of the game" would take more of a hit by a long drawn out process than by simply fining Brady and going home.

As others have said, both Goddell and Brady have taken reputational hits.

BC

Re: OT: The deflategate report - SamAtoms1980 - 09-03-2015

(09-03-2015, 02:05 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:Be that as it may, I hope this doesn't drag on further.  I'm not a fan of Brady, and I generally believe the Wells report.  However, the "integrity of the game" would take more of a hit by a long drawn out process than by simply fining Brady and going home.

As others have said, both Goddell and Brady have taken reputational hits.

BC

Lord knows, I've spewed more than my fair share of vitriol the Patriots' way.  But I've got to come down and say that Goodell will take the bigger hit than Brady here.  There was simply too much smoke in this case for there to be no fire.  If Goodell had handled this at all competently, game 1 of Brady's season would be in Indianapolis, in front of a hostile, irate, infuriated mob.

Don't we all remember the OJ trial?  Who took the bigger hit to their reputation, the prosecution team, or OJ?

Re: OT: The deflategate report - FarmBoy - 09-03-2015

Quote:If Goodell had handled this at all competently, game 1 of Brady's season would be in Indianapolis, in front of a hostile, irate, infuriated mob.

I don't know about that. A 4 game suspension was probably never a realistic end game. There was really no precedent for suspending someone 1/4 of a season for what amounts to an equipment violation. 1-2 games seems about as much as the NFL could have gotten.

As an Andrew Luck fan (notice, not an Indy fan), I'm glad that Pats @ Indy is not his first game back. That would have made them more dangerous, IMO.