Outside Topic NBA Discussion - Printable Version

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RE: NBA Discussion - gocard14 - 06-17-2023

(06-17-2023, 09:43 AM)lex24 Wrote:  I don’t envy Dunleavy.   They have massive cap issues. Draymond and Thompson contract issues.  Poole situation.  Kuminga situation.  

Draymond will probably opt out. But I don’t think his market value away from the Warriors is close to his value to the Warriors.  His defense, of course, plays anywhere.  Offensively, his value is heightened by his symbiosis with Curry.  That can’t be matched elsewhere.  So, maybe they can sign him for say three years at a slightly lower yearly hit.  

Thompson is, in some ways, a bigger issue. Although easier at this point.   Cause they have a year. He wants a max contract. I don’t see anyone giving it to him.  Before the injuries he was an elite perimeter defender.  Not surprisingly, he no longer is.  He’s still a great shooter. And good scorer.  But what made him an elite player was his defense.  Without it, he’s primarily a catch and shoot guy, albeit one of the greatest in history.  I just don’t see a team going 5 and $270.  Not even close.  

There are major emotional ties to deal with for both. Plus Curry, I’m sure, wants them to stay.

Then there are Poole and Kuminga.  The former was one of Myers few mistakes.  That contract is a “ponderous chain.”  He’s a scorer with no defensive skills.  He makes no one better.  If they can trade him, they should.  You can find a 2 that can score.

Kuminga? Question is if his attitude was bad enough that they want to cut ties.  It may have been.  Sulking through the playoffs on a team that has a Championship or bust mentality is a nice way to get traded.

Dunleavy is walking into an almost impossible situation.  To navigate this and keep them contenders is a tall task.  I give him about a 20 percent chance.   

He more likely will be the fall guy.  And then Lacob can put his son in the GM role.

While I don’t disagree about your knocks on Poole and agree trading him might be the right move, two guards that can reliably get to the rim and score don’t grow on trees. The Poole archetype of player ranges on the high end from Trae young to Tyler Herro to Anfernee Simons to Jordan Poole is clearly worth 30/year on the market. If the warriors trade Poole, they will really struggle with generating offense with the second unit. They have no one else on their roster with a handle to beat their defender one on one on the perimeter and no real means of aquiring one.

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RE: NBA Discussion - old spanish trail - 06-17-2023

Totally agree, GCard

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RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 06-17-2023

(06-17-2023, 09:43 AM)lex24 Wrote:  I don’t envy Dunleavy.   They have massive cap issues. Draymond and Thompson contract issues.  Poole situation.  Kuminga situation.  

Draymond will probably opt out. But I don’t think his market value away from the Warriors is close to his value to the Warriors.  His defense, of course, plays anywhere.  Offensively, his value is heightened by his symbiosis with Curry.  That can’t be matched elsewhere.  So, maybe they can sign him for say three years at a slightly lower yearly hit.  

Everything I've been reading says Draymond opts out. Personally, I don't see him making anywhere near what he could make with the Warriors. The W's have a very finely tuned system and most players understand Draymond as the locus of that system, and Kerr coaches to that system. Wherever else Draymond goes, he wouldn't have those advantages.

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RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 06-18-2023

(06-17-2023, 04:40 PM)Mick Wrote:  

(06-17-2023, 09:43 AM)lex24 Wrote:  I don’t envy Dunleavy.   They have massive cap issues. Draymond and Thompson contract issues.  Poole situation.  Kuminga situation.  

Draymond will probably opt out. But I don’t think his market value away from the Warriors is close to his value to the Warriors.  His defense, of course, plays anywhere.  Offensively, his value is heightened by his symbiosis with Curry.  That can’t be matched elsewhere.  So, maybe they can sign him for say three years at a slightly lower yearly hit.  

Everything I've been reading says Draymond opts out. Personally, I don't see him making anywhere near what he could make with the Warriors. The W's have a very finely tuned system and most players understand Draymond as the locus of that system, and Kerr coaches to that system. Wherever else Draymond goes, he wouldn't have those advantages.

He may opt out and resign.

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RE: NBA Discussion - old spanish trail - 06-18-2023

Exactly, Lex. He will sign for 2 or 3 years at a somewhat reduced rate.

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RE: NBA Discussion - TrumpCard - 06-19-2023

He gone. Klay’s next. The Warriors don’t need to subject themselves to enormous luxury tax bills for 3 years to keep players who no longer offer the team a path to title contention. It’s not clear to me the team would be better off at all by keeping those guys around in their twilight.

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RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 06-20-2023

Opting out doesn’t mean Draymond is gone.  It means he wants a three year deal.  He’ll get it and, brace yourself, probably from the Warriors.

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RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 06-20-2023

(06-20-2023, 04:43 AM)Leftcoast Wrote:  Opting out doesn’t mean Draymond is gone.  It means he wants a three year deal.  He’ll get it and, brace yourself, probably from the Warriors.

Before W's stuff, count me in the camp that doesn't think Beal improves the Suns playoff strength from what they last had on the court.

The worst kept secret in the NBA is Draymond was going to opt out and do a new deal for less AAV and more years to line up with Curry's. The question is will Klay do the same?  

My predicted Warriors 23-24 Roster:

PG: Curry, GP2 (really not a PG, but not a SG either), Jerome (Guessing they sign him to min deal)
SG: Thompson, Poole, Moody, TBD
SF: Wiggins, PBJ
PF: Green, Kuminga
 C: Looney, TBD, TBD

One of the TBDs could be whoever is drafted on Thursday and I assume the W's will only carry 14 again. 

Dream FA: C Naz Reid

It's kind of shocking how terrible this year's FA class is.

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RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 06-20-2023

(06-20-2023, 04:43 AM)Leftcoast Wrote:  Opting out doesn’t mean Draymond is gone.  It means he wants a three year deal.  He’ll get it and, brace yourself, probably from the Warriors.

This might not actually be a bad idea. Draymond wasn't worth $27.6 million, nowhere close. And no other team can use Draymond in the same way the Warriors do. Think about it. Would you want a 33 year old technical foul machine who punches a young teammate and averages less than 10 ppg? I wouldn't. I think the market for Green is a lot more limited than he thinks. Maybe the Warriors can get both him and Klay back for a reasonable price.

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RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 06-22-2023

Who put Chris Paul for Jordan Poole in their NBA trade machine? Wow. 

The player happiest about this has to be Moses Moody. Paul will now play the role Kyle Lowry did for the Heat and be Curry's backup. Moody will be the clear heir to Poole's minutes.

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RE: NBA Discussion - g1313 - 06-22-2023

Oh my God 39 year old Chris Paul to the warriors for Jordan Poole (plus far future picks)

Dunleavy is getting trashed for this but they needed to shed Poole's brobdingnagian salary with the new CBA. Only other option would be to play him another season and see if he could rebuild his value. Will be fascinating to see if cp3 has anything left in the tank.

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RE: NBA Discussion - old spanish trail - 06-22-2023

(06-22-2023, 01:09 PM)g1313 Wrote:  Oh my God 39 year old Chris Paul to the warriors for Jordan Poole (plus far future picks)

Dunleavy is getting trashed for this but they needed to shed Poole's of immense proportions salary with the new CBA. Only other option would be to play him another season and see if he could rebuild his value. Will be fascinating to see if cp3 has anything left in the tank.

Having read this quickly, I was wondering what draft picks the dubs had received. Whaaaat??? In addition to Poole, they gave the Wizards a 2nd (next year I think) and a protected 1st down the road. I wasn't crazy about Jerome this year, but he was getting better, and he's young. Paul is a respected player and team mate, but he's hurt half the year and slow a quarter of the year. Maybe he will be helpful in the playoffs.

Poole was also getting better, he could shoot lights out every third game and came to the rescue many times when Curry or Thompson were going down with injuries. Yes, his D needed work, but is the slow and aging Paul that much better? His contract is about same amount as Poole though two years shorter, I think. I don't get it. Hope Dunleavy isn't just going for Duke type guys. Paul didn't go to Duke, but he's a Duke type guy. We recruited him also if I remember correctly.

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RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 06-22-2023

I'm not super wild about the trade, but I understand it. The Warriors want to win now, and they suffered by not having a true backup point guard. Paul has played between 59 and 70 games each of the past three seasons, and has averaged between 31 and 33 minutes per game. He was on the all star team three of the last four seasons and is a 12 time all star. He led the league in assists per game as recently as season before last. And he's $110 million cheaper than Poole, a player who I saw as regressing, a malcontent, and who would be better as an egocentric starter on a second division ballclub. Rollins was never going to add anything. The Rollins and Poole salaries are close to Chris Paul's salary (not sure if the Wizards or Suns are paying off any of CP3's salary). Chris Paul's $30 mms. salary is not guaranteed for 2024-2025.

And frankly...Kuminga fits into the same category. He'll be gone in two weeks, my best guess. And I'm going to guess the Warriors are going to draft a college senior, 22-23 years old, best wing or center they can find.

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RE: NBA Discussion - g1313 - 06-22-2023

Poole has 4 more years at about 30 million per. Paul only has one more guaranteed year (also at 30M). Also the player going out is supposed to be Ryan Rollins who barely played, not Ty Jerome. 

For all of Poole's contributions, and his clearly justifiable grievance with the Draymond situation, I'm not sure he ever fit in with the warriors culture of team over individual.

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RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 06-22-2023

The Poole trade sucks from a pure player for player perspective. It is a calculated risk from a '23-'24 perspective. It is GREAT from a contract perspective.

When Poole was signed to his big extension, the punitive punishments that now exist for being over the luxury tax to the degree the Warriors were OK with being, didn't exist. It is clear Lacob is changing his behavior based on the new rules. He no longer sees competing for championships simply as a matter of spending more than everyone else. He sees winning in the future is going to require a different approach.

Chris Paul has two years left on his contract, but only this coming season is guaranteed. This means the Warriors can relieve themselves of over $70 million in contract obligations next year by letting Klay Thompson and Chris Paul walk. 

As for on the court this next season, I like having a defined and competent backup PG for Curry. Chris Paul has played 30+ MPG every year he's played in the NBA. As a backup PG, he will play more like 20 MPG, which should allow him to play the role Kyle Lowry did for the Heat this year.

If Moody continues his trajectory, Poole won't be missed with Paul on the roster. The big questions will be next off season. The Warriors will be in position to get under the tax even with a Draymond extension. Then what will they do?

But they still have a lot to do in the next couple months. And as John Holing points out, having Paul's contract to trade is super valuable for the Warriors if there are other possible deals out there that might allow them to get better.

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RE: NBA Discussion - old spanish trail - 06-22-2023

No, don't trade Kuminga too. He has a chance to be a big big big time player. The w's need more athleticism, not less. I think Kerr is the best coach in the league, but I don't think he and the organization have taken the right approach re coaching up and playing time/positions with JK

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RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 06-22-2023

Salary dump.

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RE: NBA Discussion - BobK - 06-22-2023

The Warriors draft local

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4709138/brandin-podziemski?appsrc=sc&consent_mode=ccpa

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RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 06-22-2023

(05-30-2023, 09:32 PM)Mick Wrote:  

(05-30-2023, 02:17 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  It appears like Lacob wants Myers to if not run be heavily involved in the NBA Draft, which is basically 3 weeks away and 8 days before his contract expires.

Is there that much to do? They have the 19th selection and they're not allowed to trade it because they owe their 2024 selection to Memphis. They don't have a second round pick. Just take the little Donte DiVincenzo clone from Santa Clara and call it a day... ;)

Podziemski To Remain In 2023 NBA Draft)

Called it...

Actually, it's not fair to call him a DD clone. He's 6'5", 204 lbs. A very good shooter, probably a better shooter than DiVincenzo and a very strong rebounder (8.8 rpg), but DD has the advantage everywhere else, particularly on defense. Podziemski is not as athletic as DiVincenzo.

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RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 06-23-2023

(06-22-2023, 07:41 PM)Mick Wrote:  

(05-30-2023, 09:32 PM)Mick Wrote:  

(05-30-2023, 02:17 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:  It appears like Lacob wants Myers to if not run be heavily involved in the NBA Draft, which is basically 3 weeks away and 8 days before his contract expires.

Is there that much to do? They have the 19th selection and they're not allowed to trade it because they owe their 2024 selection to Memphis. They don't have a second round pick. Just take the little Donte DiVincenzo clone from Santa Clara and call it a day... ;)

Podziemski To Remain In 2023 NBA Draft)

Called it...

Actually, it's not fair to call him a DD clone. He's 6'5", 204 lbs. A very good shooter, probably a better shooter than DiVincenzo and a very strong rebounder (8.8 rpg), but DD has the advantage everywhere else, particularly on defense. Podziemski is not as athletic as DiVincenzo.

And I co-signed, so have no comment on that pick :)

I do like the Trayce Jackson-Davis move, even though I liked PBJ too. TJD is an interior player who can block shots. Maybe a more skilled Robert Williams. Certainly made the guys on Larry Krueger's YouTube channel happy last night.

One question reporters need to ask Dunleavy now is this. The Suns, Lakers, Warriors, and Clippers are not going to be able to sign anyone this year as a FA beyond league minimum. What is the Warriors pitch going to be to beat out other teams also competing for league minimum free agents?

It will be interesting to see if more veterans are willing to take less to play for contenders because the new rules make it prohibitive for contending capped teams to be paying more than league minimum for veterans. There simply won't be that many contending teams willing to pay mid-level contracts. Many players will have to make hard choices between winning and ring chasing and getting paid.

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