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RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 07-01-2023
I’ll repeat, this looks like 2016 Giants to me. Except Curry. Who harkens back to the Bonds era. Warriors are going to play it out at least one more year. 2023-24 will determine what happens with Klay. If, as I suspect, the Warriors are no better than a mid to low level playoff team and are ousted early, they will let Klay go. It will be hard. Cause he is amongst the most popular Warriors ever. But they will need to start evolving. The Green signing doesn’t change that
RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 07-01-2023
(07-01-2023, 04:33 PM)Mick Wrote: First team: Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Green, Looney. If I'm not mistaken, this was the best fivesome in the NBA last year in terms of points scored vs. points given up.
Maybe, but it will also be one of the oldest with all the brittleness, injury history, and rest days that suggests. Steph and Klay in particular will need to be rested if we expect a play-off run. Good thing their back-up guards are young and healthy .... Oh, wait that's oft injured Chris Paul (39) and Garry Payton II (30). Nevermind.
The Warriors will need an amazing streak of good health plus good play from unexpected sources to challenge in the West. Could it happen? Sure. Is it likely to happen? As a fan I'll be pulling for this but ... doubtful. We've seen this story before.
Curry 35 years (ankle concerns, suspect defense)
Thompson 33 years. (ACL, Achilles, no longer able to guard top back court players, will turn 34 during season)
Wiggins 28
Green 33 years (still great but lost a step)
Looney. 27 years (but multiple hip and hamstring injuries have hampered him since his first NBA season)
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 07-02-2023
(07-01-2023, 11:53 PM)Leftcoast Wrote:(07-01-2023, 04:33 PM)Mick Wrote: First team: Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Green, Looney. If I'm not mistaken, this was the best fivesome in the NBA last year in terms of points scored vs. points given up.
Maybe, but it will also be one of the oldest with all the brittleness, injury history, and rest days that suggests. Steph and Klay in particular will need to be rested if we expect a play-off run. Good thing their back-up guards are young and healthy .... Oh, wait that's oft injured Chris Paul (39) and Garry Payton II (30). Nevermind.
The Warriors will need an amazing streak of good health plus good play from unexpected sources to challenge in the West. Could it happen? Sure. Is it likely to happen? As a fan I'll be pulling for this but ... doubtful. We've seen this story before.
Curry 35 years (ankle concerns, suspect defense)
Thompson 33 years. (ACL, Achilles, no longer able to guard top back court players, will turn 34 during season)
Wiggins 28
Green 33 years (still great but lost a step)
Looney. 27 years (but multiple hip and hamstring injuries have hampered him since his first NBA season)
These same arguments can be made for almost every contending team in the NBA. Let me show how easy this is with the Western contenders...
Nuggets - Michael Porter Jr and Jamal Murray have injury history
Lakers - LeBron is 38 (older than Chris Paul) and Anthony Davis will be 31 next playoff season and injury prone
Suns - Durant is 35 with injury history, Beal and Booker have injury history
Clippers - Kawhi Leonard and Paul George are constantly hurt, and Westbrook will be 35 this season
Pelicans - Zion Williamson remains more of an idea than reality due to his injury history
The Kings and Grizzlies are the only top contenders without chronically injured and/or old players, but Morant has an injury history. The Eastern contenders have similar age and/or injury realities, and even the younger healthier teams can be struck by injury at any time.
The key for the Warriors will be to spread minutes around more generously. Nobody should be playing more than 30 minutes per game and Chris Paul in particular should not average more than 20 minutes per game. He can come in for Curry after 8-10 minutes of 1st quarter, then play half the 2nd quarter, then something similar in second half. This would put Curry at roughly 30 mins per game and Paul at about roughly 18 minutes per game.
This will shave almost 5 MPG off Curry's career and '22-'23 average and a whopping 16 MPG off Paul's career average and 14 off his '22-'23 average. I think we can see why Curry and Paul like the arrangement.
Over a season, not including rest days or games missed due to injury - this would save Curry almost 400 minutes and Paul almost 1,300 minutes of wear. Paul will benefit greatly from a reduced workload leading the W's second unit, and so too will the W's as a team.
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 07-02-2023
(07-02-2023, 05:52 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote:(07-01-2023, 11:53 PM)Leftcoast Wrote:(07-01-2023, 04:33 PM)Mick Wrote: First team: Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Green, Looney. If I'm not mistaken, this was the best fivesome in the NBA last year in terms of points scored vs. points given up.
Maybe, but it will also be one of the oldest with all the brittleness, injury history, and rest days that suggests. Steph and Klay in particular will need to be rested if we expect a play-off run. Good thing their back-up guards are young and healthy .... Oh, wait that's oft injured Chris Paul (39) and Garry Payton II (30). Nevermind.
The Warriors will need an amazing streak of good health plus good play from unexpected sources to challenge in the West. Could it happen? Sure. Is it likely to happen? As a fan I'll be pulling for this but ... doubtful. We've seen this story before.
Curry 35 years (ankle concerns, suspect defense)
Thompson 33 years. (ACL, Achilles, no longer able to guard top back court players, will turn 34 during season)
Wiggins 28
Green 33 years (still great but lost a step)
Looney. 27 years (but multiple hip and hamstring injuries have hampered him since his first NBA season)
These same arguments can be made for almost every contending team in the NBA. Let me show how easy this is with the Western contenders...
Nuggets - Michael Porter Jr and Jamal Murray have injury history
Lakers - LeBron is 38 (older than Chris Paul) and Anthony Davis will be 31 next playoff season and injury prone
Suns - Durant is 35 with injury history, Beal and Booker have injury history
Clippers - Kawhi Leonard and Paul George are constantly hurt, and Westbrook will be 35 this season
Pelicans - Zion Williamson remains more of an idea than reality due to his injury history
The Kings and Grizzlies are the only top contenders without chronically injured and/or old players, but Morant has an injury history. The Eastern contenders have similar age and/or injury realities, and even the younger healthier teams can be struck by injury at any time.
The key for the Warriors will be to spread minutes around more generously. Nobody should be playing more than 30 minutes per game and Chris Paul in particular should not average more than 20 minutes per game. He can come in for Curry after 8-10 minutes of 1st quarter, then play half the 2nd quarter, then something similar in second half. This would put Curry at roughly 30 mins per game and Paul at about roughly 18 minutes per game.
This will shave almost 5 MPG off Curry's career and '22-'23 average and a whopping 16 MPG off Paul's career average and 14 off his '22-'23 average. I think we can see why Curry and Paul like the arrangement.
Over a season, not including rest days or games missed due to injury - this would save Curry almost 400 minutes and Paul almost 1,300 minutes of wear. Paul will benefit greatly from a reduced workload leading the W's second unit, and so too will the W's as a team.
Kerr has been spreading minutes around for years. Problem is the 4-5. Small. No depth. That could change a bit if they pick up Saric.
Still think they are a second division team. No rim protector. Even if they get Saric. Lakers exploited that. Denver would have swept the Warriors easier than they swept the Lakers. Jokic. Memphis is better if Morant is playing. Kings will be better next year with the playoff experience under their belt.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 07-02-2023
First team: Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Green, Looney.
Second team: Paul, Payton, Kuminga, Moody, Saric
Third team: Jerome, Quinones, Podziemski, Trayce-Jackson
RE: NBA Discussion - g1313 - 07-03-2023
(07-02-2023, 11:52 AM)Mick Wrote: First team: Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Green, Looney.
Second team: Paul, Payton, Kuminga, Moody, Saric
Third team: Jerome, Quinones, Podziemski, Trayce-Jackson
Picked up Cory Joseph, PG from Detroit to replace Jerome, pretty similar stats to Ty.
I think the dubs are doing about as well as you can given the circumstances (aging core). Denver looks dominant and the West seems to be getting better, but as long as we have Steph there is a little hope.
Unlucky that Steph didn't miss the year before or after the year he did, because instead of Wiseman it could have been Ja (present troubles aside) or Evan Mobley. Word is that Lacob was sold on Wiseman, but a big "what if..." would have been making a "lightyears ahead" move and trading back and taking Haliburton (or Tyrese Maxey or Desmond Bane)
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 07-03-2023
Wembanyama on ESPN at 8pm ET, followed by Warriors at 10pm ET.
It's the California Classic July 3 and July 5, before Summer League starts July 7.
W's rookie #1 pick Brandon Podziemski, when asked if he has any goals for Summer League, said he wants to have at least 2-3 Triple Doubles. Certainly love his confidence. Josh Giddey did it last year and Lonzo Ball a few years before. Don't think the odds are very high that this will happen once, let alone "2-3" times. I would have preferred to hear him say something about his defense.
Will be watching Podziemski, Tracy Jackson-Davis, Lester Quinones and Gui Santos the most.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 07-03-2023
For three quarters, I wasn't very impressed with Podziemski. Fourth quarter...much better. He was 4/9, 12 points, 1 of 3 on 3 pointers, 4 turnovers, six rebounds, six assists (second on team), 2/3 on free throws.
He passed and handled the ball better than I thought he would. Shot worse than I thought he would. Played mediocre defense, about what I expected. Trayce-Jackson had a hamstring issue. Quinones looked good, led team with 26 points.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 07-04-2023
Not a bad debut for Brandon Podziemski given he’s the youngest guy out there. Can tell he’s looking for the best scoring opportunity whether for himself or teammates. Also moved well and competed on defense. Led team in boards and assists. Maybe he will get a Summer League triple double…
I’m going to go out on a limb and say Lester Quinones will help the W’s this season. His pre-game presser made clear why he was most improved and All G League last year. Really intelligent, grounded, and mature guy who understands what he must do to be successful. The only player better than Quinones on the floor was NBA all rookie Keegan Murray for Sac who has no reason to play Summer League.
GUI Santos has become bigger and stronger. Definitely better than last year.
Jackson-Davis being held out until Vegas on Friday.
RE: NBA Discussion - McKenwood - 07-04-2023
(07-03-2023, 02:47 PM)g1313 Wrote:(07-02-2023, 11:52 AM)Mick Wrote: First team: Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Green, Looney.
Second team: Paul, Payton, Kuminga, Moody, Saric
Third team: Jerome, Quinones, Podziemski, Trayce-Jackson
Picked up Cory Joseph, PG from Detroit to replace Jerome, pretty similar stats to Ty.
I think the dubs are doing about as well as you can given the circumstances (aging core). Denver looks dominant and the West seems to be getting better, but as long as we have Steph there is a little hope.
Unlucky that Steph didn't miss the year before or after the year he did, because instead of Wiseman it could have been Ja (present troubles aside) or Evan Mobley. Word is that Lacob was sold on Wiseman, but a big "what if..." would have been making a "lightyears ahead" move and trading back and taking Haliburton (or Tyrese Maxey or Desmond Bane)
Warriors still need more size. Saric and Trayce-Jackson are insufficient. TJ is a rookie so cannot be counted on. Where is this generation's Javale McGee? By contrast Lakers pick-up Jaxson Hayes who would have been a good complentary player for the Warriors.
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 07-04-2023
(07-04-2023, 11:17 AM)McKenwood Wrote:(07-03-2023, 02:47 PM)g1313 Wrote:(07-02-2023, 11:52 AM)Mick Wrote: First team: Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Green, Looney.
Second team: Paul, Payton, Kuminga, Moody, Saric
Third team: Jerome, Quinones, Podziemski, Trayce-Jackson
Picked up Cory Joseph, PG from Detroit to replace Jerome, pretty similar stats to Ty.
I think the dubs are doing about as well as you can given the circumstances (aging core). Denver looks dominant and the West seems to be getting better, but as long as we have Steph there is a little hope.
Unlucky that Steph didn't miss the year before or after the year he did, because instead of Wiseman it could have been Ja (present troubles aside) or Evan Mobley. Word is that Lacob was sold on Wiseman, but a big "what if..." would have been making a "lightyears ahead" move and trading back and taking Haliburton (or Tyrese Maxey or Desmond Bane)
Warriors still need more size. Saric and Trayce-Jackson are insufficient. TJ is a rookie so cannot be counted on. Where is this generation's Javale McGee? By contrast Lakers pick-up Jaxson Hayes who would have been a good complentary player for the Warriors.
True. McGee, Bogut, ZaZa. Warriors have no one like that right now. Hurt them big time vs LA.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 07-04-2023
(07-04-2023, 12:01 PM)lex24 Wrote:(07-04-2023, 11:17 AM)McKenwood Wrote:(07-03-2023, 02:47 PM)g1313 Wrote:(07-02-2023, 11:52 AM)Mick Wrote: First team: Curry, Thompson, Wiggins, Green, Looney.
Second team: Paul, Payton, Kuminga, Moody, Saric
Third team: Jerome, Quinones, Podziemski, Trayce-Jackson
Picked up Cory Joseph, PG from Detroit to replace Jerome, pretty similar stats to Ty.
I think the dubs are doing about as well as you can given the circumstances (aging core). Denver looks dominant and the West seems to be getting better, but as long as we have Steph there is a little hope.
Unlucky that Steph didn't miss the year before or after the year he did, because instead of Wiseman it could have been Ja (present troubles aside) or Evan Mobley. Word is that Lacob was sold on Wiseman, but a big "what if..." would have been making a "lightyears ahead" move and trading back and taking Haliburton (or Tyrese Maxey or Desmond Bane)
Warriors still need more size. Saric and Trayce-Jackson are insufficient. TJ is a rookie so cannot be counted on. Where is this generation's Javale McGee? By contrast Lakers pick-up Jaxson Hayes who would have been a good complentary player for the Warriors.
True. McGee, Bogut, ZaZa. Warriors have no one like that right now. Hurt them big time vs LA.
Maybe they could pick up Dwight Howard, last seen playing in Taiwan.
Dwight Howard - Wikipedia
Or Tristan Thompson.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 07-05-2023
Bol Bol just cut by Magic. Perhaps Warriors could do a sign and trade to get him? He has a guaranteed $2.2M contract, so would cost dubs like $16M against cap. Worth it?
Or could he clear waivers allowing Dubs to sign him as UFA on min deal? He is young enough and still has enough upside to offer a min two year deal IMO. But sign and trade would probably increase the odds of landing him.
RE: NBA Discussion - McKenwood - 07-05-2023
(07-05-2023, 03:31 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Bol Bol just cut by Magic. Perhaps Warriors could do a sign and trade to get him? He has a guaranteed $2.2M contract, so would cost dubs like $16M against cap. Worth it?
Or could he clear waivers allowing Dubs to sign him as UFA on min deal? He is young enough and still has enough upside to offer a min two year deal IMO. But sign and trade would probably increase the odds of landing him.
Thinking the same thing. Warriors need several big men to develop using roster spots 13 & 14 plus their three two way contracts. Surprising number of teams are over the limit on contracts relative to roster spots so we may see more cuts of viable players once the Lillard and Harden trades go down.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 07-07-2023
The Warriors are a bit playing with fire when it comes to Lester Quinones. He hasn't signed the QO for a 2-way deal that the W's gave him. That means he is right now a UFA and can be signed by anyone. If he is offered anything over league minimum by another team, the W's will lose him like they did Ty Jerome to the Cavs.
If he signs the 2-way QO he becomes an RFA with the W's able to match any offer he gets. But if he does sign it, that decreases the odds another team would offer him a full contract because the W's would likely match it. If he continues playing great in Summer League, might the Warriors offer him a full contract for one of the last roster spots to make sure they don't lose him? Keep in mind, one reason the W's probably haven't signed him to a rookie minimum and gave him a 2-way QO is because even minimum is about $1M, it would cost them about $7M in taxes. Do they want to save $7M more than they want Quinones?
RE: NBA Discussion - McKenwood - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 07:22 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: The Warriors are a bit playing with fire when it comes to Lester Quinones. He hasn't signed the QO for a 2-way deal that the W's gave him. That means he is right now a UFA and can be signed by anyone. If he is offered anything over league minimum by another team, the W's will lose him like they did Ty Jerome to the Cavs.
If he signs the 2-way QO he becomes an RFA with the W's able to match any offer he gets. But if he does sign it, that decreases the odds another team would offer him a full contract because the W's would likely match it. If he continues playing great in Summer League, might the Warriors offer him a full contract for one of the last roster spots to make sure they don't lose him? Keep in mind, one reason the W's probably haven't signed him to a rookie minimum and gave him a 2-way QO is because even minimum is about $1M, it would cost them about $7M in taxes. Do they want to save $7M more than they want Quinones?
Good information about LQ. Hope they don't lose him but their priority is not another guard as they already have seven on their roster. They really need to get some size and they seem to be flailing in contrast to the Lakers and the Suns during free agency. Bamba just signed elsewhere and Saric seems to be waiting for an above minimum contract.
RE: NBA Discussion - TrumpCard - 07-07-2023
In thinking about the insanity of the Jordan Poole contract, consider that Dejounte Murray just signed for less (though with a player option for the last year). DM is an all-star, plays good D, shoots a higher percentage, gets more assists, and doubled Poole’s rebounding. The deal was so bad, the Warriors had to give up their 2022 and 2030 1st rounders to get out from under it.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 07-08-2023
Nice to get Saric, a 6-10 Forward who can stretch the floor, put it on the floor a bit, and pass well.
Will be interesting to see who the W's sign for the final roster spot. They seem to be perfectly fine not having a big Center.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 07-08-2023
(07-08-2023, 04:19 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Nice to get Saric, a 6-10 Forward who can stretch the floor, put it on the floor a bit, and pass well.
Will be interesting to see who the W's sign for the final roster spot. They seem to be perfectly fine not having a big Center.
Love Saric. Great passer, experience with CP3 (who lobbied hard for the Warriors to get him). The Warriors, to their credit, started calling him the minute they were allowed to do so. He's a former starter. Only 29.
As for centers, how about Dwight Howard, last played in Taiwan? He mentioned five teams he'd like to play for, one was the Warriors.
RE: NBA Discussion - gocard14 - 07-08-2023
(07-07-2023, 06:40 PM)TrumpCard Wrote: In thinking about the insanity of the Jordan Poole contract, consider that Dejounte Murray just signed for less (though with a player option for the last year). DM is an all-star, plays good D, shoots a higher percentage, gets more assists, and doubled Poole’s rebounding. The deal was so bad, the Warriors had to give up their 2022 and 2030 1st rounders to get out from under it.
A couple of things.
1. The JP contract was signed prior to the second apron, DM was not. The second apron may have a chilling effect on the players who were borderline max candidates. Maybe they were worth a max when the only consequence of overpaying a bit was some extra luxury tax. Now the consequences of going above the second apron are much more drastic.
2. After JPs 2021-2022, his contract was market rate. Similar to Tyler hero who is as close a comp as you can get. The mistake wasn’t the numbers, but the decision to extend a year in advance. The Ws could have let him be an RFA this year with the option to match all deals. This can really chill a market, as we saw with Austin Reaves this year since teams don’t want to tie up their cap space for a guy they won’t get. Hindsight is 20/20, but Ws could have probably resigned him for cheap after his rough 2022. The benefit of the early extension is to get him cheaper then the max he might have gotten as an RFA. IMO the savings they got were not sufficient to justify the risk of committing to him a year early.
It’ll be interesting to see what we do with our last roster spot (knowing we won’t sign 15).
The big market is slim pickings. A big body like Dwight Howard isn’t going to get minutes with dray, Saric, and looney ahead of them. TJD may also be ahead of anyone left we can sign; though that is an unknown. Still might be worth it as injury insurance, but unlikely to have an impact.
Between Steph, CP3, Cojo, and Podz, we don’t need a PG. So that leaves a wing. We could use another 4 that can shoot, but IMO We are still too short on players who can create a shot off the dribble. I wouldn’t be surprised if it went to LQ if we have any concerns about him getting sniped. I also wouldn’t mind Svi mykailiuk, who dabbled well as a primary scorer in charlotte last year. Our old friend Kelly Oubre is also unsigned. He was a poor fit at 15 mil, but would love him in a minimum. Doubt he slips through the cracks though, someone who still has an MLE will take him.