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RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 11-02-2023
Jordan Poole is a mystery. He was acknowledged to be the Warriors' hardest worker after his rookie season. They absolutely do not win the '22 LOB Trophy without him, and then after he got his big contract, he acted like he had arrived.
I remember watching interviews with him in his second year when he was looking to prove himself in Santa Cruz so he could get the call to the Warriors, and being so impressed by how level-headed and humble he seemed to be. In fact, he was my favorite W's player going into last season after such an instrumental Finals performance. But something happened to change him and it seems like it was the contract he got going into last season because what else could there be that changes someone so much?
It would be nice to see Poole mature and re-discover the 2nd and 3rd year version of himself, but who knows if that guy even exists anymore.
Are y'all ready for the In-Season Tournament to start on Friday in OKC? I didn't see all the interviews from the post Klay game winner against Sac press room, but saw a good bit of it and couldn't help to notice how nobody asked about what the W's were thinking about the tournament. I mean this isn't suppose to be just another road game, it's suppose to mean a bit more than that, and I didn't get the sense anyone appreciates this.
It will be fascinating to see how a team like OKC who has accomplished nothing approaches the game versus a W's Dynasty team looking for a 7th NBA Finals and 5th ring. I'm imagining it might be a similar dynamic to Bowl games, where one team is super motivated and the other team just isn't all that into it.
RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 11-02-2023
(11-02-2023, 06:29 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Are y'all ready for the In-Season Tournament to start on Friday in OKC?
The in season tournament is starting on FRIDAY? Someone remind me the logic behind this?.
The Warriors should send rookies/2nd team younger members as they would (and should) be livid if a front line, older player gets injured in a meaningless game. (Curry, Thompson, Green, GP3, Looney all are in the older, fragile, shouldn't be playing category). I bet a lot of contending teams are going to play like it's the end of the season and they are jockeying for a better lottery pick.
How could this possibly make for compelling television viewing?
RE: NBA Discussion - CompSci87 - 11-02-2023
The games aren't meaningless even if you feel the tournament championship is meaningless. Almost all of them are also regular season games, which count towards the regular season standings and thus towards playoff seeding.
Quote:All 67 games across both stages of the In-Season Tournament will count toward the regular-season standings except the Championship. Each team will continue to play 82 regular-season games in the 2023-24 season, including those games that are part of Group Play and the Knockout Rounds.
https://www.nba.com/news/in-season-tournament-101
RE: NBA Discussion - French Rage - 11-02-2023
Sans the championship game, it's essentially any college rivalry game where there's extra junk like a trophy but it still counts towards real standings.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 11-02-2023
Looks like the NBA has done a poor job explaining the In-Season Tournament.
All tournament games are regular season games counted in the tournament standings, played on hideously ugly courts to make sure everyone knows they are not just regular season games. The NBA says only the teams that play in the championship game will play an extra game beyond 82. I'll just take their word for it, rather than try figuring out how a team that makes it to the semis won't play more games than the teams eliminated in group play.
There are 3 groups of 5 teams playing a round robin in each conference. The winner of each group, plus the team with the best record that didn't win their group, advances to quarterfinals to be held at the higher seeded team's building.
The quarterfinal winners advance to T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas to play the semi-finals and final.
The Warriors are grouped with: Thunder, Kings, T-Wolves, and Spurs.
I don't know the tie-breaker for teams with the same 2nd place group records. Point differential in the tournament games would make sense, but so too would who has the best regular season record at that point.
https://www.nba.com/news/in-season-tournament-101
https://www.nba.com/in-season-tournament/2023/schedule
RE: NBA Discussion - CompSci87 - 11-02-2023
It's all fully explained in the NBA.com link both you and I posted.
RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 11-02-2023
(11-02-2023, 11:39 AM)CompSci87 Wrote: It's all fully explained in the NBA.com link both you and I posted.
Read the "In-Season Tournament 101" articles and it answer's a lot of questions. Just not why fans should care.
If most games count against your record then there is plenty to play for but end of season equity issues are going to sting for teams that progress. Playoff seedings often come down to single games and this will force some level of schedule inequity to value against the NBA's chance to sell TV rights.
Whatever. I don't see why teams or fans should care more about a tourney game than they do for a regular season game.
Maybe I'm wrong though and this thing grows. I'd love to hear an opposing view from anyone that is excited about this.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 11-02-2023
I'm usually not one to get interested in something novel like the In-Season Tournament. I'm usually more inspired by traditional culturally established events.
But, I also like intense competition. Anything that adds to the regular season intensity adds to my interest watching regular season games. It all depends on how badly the players show they want it.
Any time you can create a goal to reach and there is a reward for reaching it, there should be a special priority on achieving it that should result in what the NBA wants - more passion for winning in the regular season.
It will be fascinating to see how the punditry and fanscape judges the winner of the tournament. Will it be seen as a championship favorite? Will a team not considered a championship contender winning it result in people downplaying the importance of the tournament, or change perceptions about that team's contending potential?
Like, the Sacramento Kings aren't generally considered a championship contender, but they are a very good team that could win the tournament. They play the Warriors at home in it. I can see them winning that game and being good enough to win the first In Season Tournament all together. If they do, I'm guessing they will get more national attention for the rest of the season, and the NBA narrative will be all the California teams being championship contenders. Never have they all been so good at the same time, but Sacramento gets short shrift.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 11-04-2023
It's hard to tell if the IST made games on a first Friday of November more compelling for players and fans. Particularly in the West, the teams are so good from top to bottom, that all the games are important if you want to make the playoffs or play-in.
Of seven games, six were within 7 pts, five were within 5 pts, and three were within 2 pts, including Warriors 141, Thunder 139, as they improved to 4-0 on the road so far.
Just when the Warriors were #1 in the NBA in FG% D, they get absolutely torched, giving up an unfathomable 60% FG and 50% from 3, but still found a way to win because they got 6 more more O boards than Thunder, and Chris Paul even though 0-6 FG, had 13 assists and 0 turnovers!
Yes, Kuminga scored 19 in 22 minutes, but 2 rebounds?!?!?!? He and Wiggins - who did have 4 O boards - combined for 7 rebounds in 49 minutes. That is just simply inexcusable. Now granted, OKC shot a crazy FG%, so there weren't as many opportunities, but still. I'm really getting bothered by their lack of rebounding. If Curry can nab 8 in 31 minutes, Wiggins and Kuminga can get more than 7 in 49 combined.
Point differential is going to be the #1 tie breaker for the IST, and total points will be the 2nd tie-breaker, so there will be no garbage time or pulling punches in these games during the first few rounds of games.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 11-04-2023
(11-04-2023, 06:55 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: It's hard to tell if the IST made games on a first Friday of November more compelling for players and fans. Particularly in the West, the teams are so good from top to bottom, that all the games are important if you want to make the playoffs or play-in.
Of seven games, six were within 7 pts, five were within 5 pts, and three were within 2 pts, including Warriors 141, Thunder 139, as they improved to 4-0 on the road so far.
Just when the Warriors were #1 in the NBA in FG% D, they get absolutely torched, giving up an unfathomable 60% FG and 50% from 3, but still found a way to win because they got 6 more more O boards than Thunder, and Chris Paul even though 0-6 FG, had 13 assists and 0 turnovers!
Yes, Kuminga scored 19 in 22 minutes, but 2 rebounds?!?!?!? He and Wiggins - who did have 4 O boards - combined for 7 rebounds in 49 minutes. That is just simply inexcusable. Now granted, OKC shot a crazy FG%, so there weren't as many opportunities, but still. I'm really getting bothered by their lack of rebounding. If Curry can nab 8 in 31 minutes, Wiggins and Kuminga can get more than 7 in 49 combined.
Point differential is going to be the #1 tie breaker for the IST, and total points will be the 2nd tie-breaker, so there will be no garbage time or pulling punches in these games during the first few rounds of games.
The Warriors are 8th in the NBA in rebounding, but not because of the guards or the Big Four veterans (except Looney). Leader in rebounds per minute are Trayce Jackson-Davis and Jerome Robinson (14.4), then Looney (13.4), then Dario Saric (12.7), then guard Brandon Podziemski (12.5).
Then a big dropoff to guard Cory Joseph (9.0).
Then another big dropoff to Draymond and Steph (6.5 and 6.4), then another dropoff to Kuminga, Moody and Chris Paul, all between 5.1 and 5.5.
Then another dropoff to 6'2" GRP2 and 6'6" Klay Thompson (4.4 and 4.3), with 6'7" Andrew Wiggins by far at the back, with 3.7. In other words, he's getting rebounds at about 1/4th the rate of rookie TJD.
leftcoast - Leftcoast - 11-04-2023
TJ-D, man of those many rebounds, was sent to Santa Cruz before the OKC game. I hope it’s a short stay. The Warriors need to figure out how to work in the younger players if the vets are going to have gas left in the tank come play-offs. This move has me shaking my head.
RE: leftcoast - OutsiderFan - 11-05-2023
(11-04-2023, 09:55 PM)Leftcoast Wrote: TJ-D, man of those many rebounds, was sent to Santa Cruz before the OKC game. I hope it’s a short stay. The Warriors need to figure out how to work in the younger players if the vets are going to have gas left in the tank come play-offs. This move has me shaking my head.
It wasn't just you, but they are back...
https://www.nbcsportsbayarea.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/trayce-jackson-davis-draymond-green-brandin-podziemski/1668652/
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 11-06-2023
The Detroit Pistons are 2-5, T13th in the 15-team Eastern Conference. And James Wiseman has fallen out of their rotation, surpassed by Jalen Duren and Marvin Bagley. In last night's loss to the Suns, new head coach Monty Williams decided that Wiseman would be the only player who didn't get in the game.
Injuries, inexperience, COVID. Was mostly injured in high school, eligibility revoked in college, only played 60 games for Golden State.
Stephen Curry Believes Former Warriors' Rookie Will Carve Out A Role In The NBA
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 11-06-2023
BTW, Poole is a flailing turnover machine for Washington (last in the Eastern Conference) with a net negative +/- score, who nonetheless turns and mugs for the cameras when his shots don't fall -- he's shooting 30% from 3 point range. Baldwin has gotten into two games for 9 minutes and Rollins has played 8 minutes in four games for this last place team. Interestingly, Poole's turnover rate has increased every year. Did the Warriors dodge a brobdingnagian bullet, and should Dunleavy be NBA Executive of the Year for getting rid of these potential albatrosses, while keeping Kuminga, Moody, Davis-Jackson and Podziemski, all of whom seem to be working out?
And separately re: Warriors...I'm very happy that Chris Paul is leading what is probably the best second-string in the NBA...but shouldn't the starters be better, starting with perimeter defense? Other teams have stratospheric three-point percentage shooting against the W's. And yes, I realize that the Warriors currently hold the #4 power rating on www.nba.com. They're 9th in offensive rating and 12th in defensive rating.
Core concerns:
- The Warriors scored just 104 points on 102 possessions against the Cavs, and the problem wasn’t turnovers or 3-point shooting. Their 12-for-32 (38%) shooting in the paint was the second worst shooting performance for any team in the paint this season.
- The Warriors have seen the league’s biggest drop in ball movement, from 381 passes per 24 minutes of possession (first) last season to 352 (sixth) this season.
- Chris Paul ranks 138th in true shooting percentage among 139 players with at least 50 attempts. And yes, I know the team has fewer turnovers, fewer fouls, a better bench and they're 4-1 on the road.
- Their schedule has been ridiculous. After playing at Detroit today and at NBA champs Denver on Wednesday, the Warriors will have had 7 road games and nine games in 16 days.
Warriors vs. Detroit at 4 p.m. today.
RE: NBA Discussion - gocard14 - 11-07-2023
(11-06-2023, 10:46 AM)Mick Wrote: BTW, Poole is a flailing turnover machine for Washington (last in the Eastern Conference) with a net negative +/- score, who nonetheless turns and mugs for the cameras when his shots don't fall -- he's shooting 30% from 3 point range. Baldwin has gotten into two games for 9 minutes and Rollins has played 8 minutes in four games for this last place team. Interestingly, Poole's turnover rate has increased every year. Did the Warriors dodge a of immense proportions bullet, and should Dunleavy be NBA Executive of the Year for getting rid of these potential albatrosses, while keeping Kuminga, Moody, Davis-Jackson and Podziemski, all of whom seem to be working out?
And separately re: Warriors...I'm very happy that Chris Paul is leading what is probably the best second-string in the NBA...but shouldn't the starters be better, starting with perimeter defense? Other teams have stratospheric three-point percentage shooting against the W's. And yes, I realize that the Warriors currently hold the #4 power rating on www.nba.com. They're 9th in offensive rating and 12th in defensive rating.
Core concerns:
- The Warriors scored just 104 points on 102 possessions against the Cavs, and the problem wasn’t turnovers or 3-point shooting. Their 12-for-32 (38%) shooting in the paint was the second worst shooting performance for any team in the paint this season.
- The Warriors have seen the league’s biggest drop in ball movement, from 381 passes per 24 minutes of possession (first) last season to 352 (sixth) this season.
- Chris Paul ranks 138th in true shooting percentage among 139 players with at least 50 attempts. And yes, I know the team has fewer turnovers, fewer fouls, a better bench and they're 4-1 on the road.
- Their schedule has been ridiculous. After playing at Detroit today and at NBA champs Denver on Wednesday, the Warriors will have had 7 road games and nine games in 16 days.
Warriors vs. Detroit at 4 p.m. today.
Warriors definitely may have dodged a bullet by getting rid of the Poole contract, not to mention getting CP3 out of the deal. Not ruling out that he could get it together at some point, but he seems happy to be a chucker that plays losing basketball now that he has a ring and a payday.
Overall there is a lot to like about the W's so far. As you mentioned, they were dealt a brutal schedule to start the year, and espite that they are 6-2 with 5 road wins. It took them until game 44 to get to 5 road wins last year. The second unit with CP3 is leaps and bounds better then the second unit with Poole. The Warriors depth is insane. CP3, Moody, Kuminga, Saric, GP2 are 5 guys who can easily be in a playoff rotation, and Podziemski and TJD are looking great when they get minutes, which is rare due to the aforementioned depth. They also have a lot more lineup flexibility then last year, and Saric especially (combined with Draymond's improved 3 point shooting) helps them go 5-out to counteract their traditional weakness of going against elite rim protectors like against the Lakers last year.
Furthermore, they are doing all this while only playing steph 31-32 minutes a game, which is brobdingnagian for keeping him healthy and fresh for the playoffs. Barring major injuries, this looks like a very solid regular season team and should win 50+ games.
Now for the concerns: While the warriors are loaded with depth/talent, they lack elite top end talent after Steph Curry. In a series with Boston, Boston would have the second, third, fourth, and fifth best players. Boston is an extreme, but in the playoffs top end talent tends to beat depth, and we are short on elite talent outside of the chef. Wiggins was our second best player in the playoff run, and he looks awful to start the year. I don't know if it is lack of motivation, or if his absence was something health related that he still has effects from, but he just doesn't look like the same guy. Related to this, some bad shooting luck, and Dray being out, our starting 5 has been shoddy on D. If he can't recover, unless Kuminga takes a giant leap its hard to see this team winning 4 playoff series. I'm not worried about CP3's shot. He'll find it (and started to last night), and even when his shot is not falling he is still a winning player. Also not worried about the lower pass count, that probably just comes from how CP3 plays on the second unit.
RE: NBA Discussion - TrumpCard - 11-07-2023
We should be grading the Warriors on a curve, considering that ownership is forking over $188 million in luxury tax.
Getting rid of Poole's contract was a good move, but it cost Baldwin and a future first round pick. The team already has traded Wiseman and its 2024 pick as well. As gocard noted, the team does not have an elite player after Curry, who is somewhat old. Someday, probably not too long from now, Curry's play will decline. When that happens, the team ideally would be able to re-build through the draft. Trading first rounders will make that re-build more challenging.
Although the mid-term future looks iffy, the strategy some advocated, "build for now and still avoid any need to re-build" was always somewhat unrealistic. There always was going to have to be a downturn in the cycle. Recent events might just make that downturn last a little bit longer.
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 11-07-2023
A very simplistic view of the Warriors is that Chris Paul and Dario Saric make them better than the team that got bounced by the Lakers in second round.
The Warriors will go as far as Wiggins and Kuminga take them. Those are the guys who must step up and be difference makers.
In Detroit, they sort of stepped up in different ways without shooting well. Wiggins had 6 rebounds and Kuminga, though he only had 1 rebound (a continuing weakness that must improve), he got to the FT line 8 times and made 6. That's really the difference in the game on another poor shooting night for the W's, although Chris Paul had his first good shooting night too.
Denver on Wednesday night will be fascinating. Will the Warriors summon a special intensity and play their best, or will they play a meh game that doesn't look like they brought their best effort?
RE: NBA Discussion - OutsiderFan - 11-08-2023
Draymond out vs. Nuggets for personal reasons. TJD about to be schooled by Jokic. Hard to see W's beating them without their best defensive player.
Of course, Jamal Murray is out too.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 11-08-2023
(11-08-2023, 04:53 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Draymond out vs. Nuggets for personal reasons. TJD about to be schooled by Jokic. Hard to see W's beating them without their best defensive player.
Of course, Jamal Murray is out too.
Game's about to start. What's your prognostication? Old age 6-2 Warriors in Denver at altitude minus Draymond and possibly GP2, due to illness.
I think Warriors lose by 15. They'll be gassed.
RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 11-08-2023
(11-08-2023, 08:01 PM)Mick Wrote:(11-08-2023, 04:53 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Hard to see W's beating them without their best defensive player.I think Warriors lose by 15. They'll be gassed.
Actually this was a VERY close fought game with multiple ties and lead changes in the final 5 minutes. For one game Jokic was the better finisher in the final 5 minutes than Steph and Klay but really this game could have gone either way. A better first half by Wiggins or a key 2nd half stop by the absent Green and this might have been a Warriors win.
This team looked very, very different from the 2022-2023 Dubs! Despite the loss, I think the game will be encouraging for Warrior fans.