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Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - jacketree - 01-04-2016

Hey CT,

I found those quotes on a Sports Nation site.  I was trying to find the band's post game tweets, but I think I remember the gist of them anyway.

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football-news/4689813-stanford-band-iowa-cow-rose-bowl

I think you've hit on one problem.  The script is clear - harmless fun - but it does not come across in a stadium with 90,000 people in it.  I also think many people are predisposed to hate LSJUMB based on their past antics, so there is nothing they could do to change that in one show.

You were in the band I believe, so I'll ask you (and others) why they don't do more scripts like the 'Lost State of East Carolina.'  That was pretty funny and who would be offended by that?  Even Friday they could have done something like a salute to Iowan music that is not the Music Man. (Everly Bros, Glenn Miller, Radio Moscow, and speaking of speed metal played too loud, Slipknot.)  That wouldn't generate a million threads on the internet, but it would have been entertaining.  I know they've been doing this stuff for 50+ years, but maybe it's time for a change.  I'm still not convinced the Rose Bowl is the right venue for one's inner Jim Gaffigan, particularly when you aren't as good as Jim Gaffigan.


Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - FarmBoy - 01-04-2016

I joined the band when I was a student in the late 90's in part (perhaps mostly) because they were one of the few student groups enthusiastic about Stanford sports. The student section at most sporting events was tiny or empty, but the band was there, playing and cheering loudly the whole time. Diss them for their musicianship, but realize that without their enthusiasm, the energy level and interest at many Stanford sporting events would be virtually nil. I was a terrible musician, but I was there, rain or shine, for many Stanford games when the students and alums were taking the day off. And running from dorm to dorm during dead week and gathering students to go dance on the quad never got old.

The band is a great institution on campus, even if they make a few missteps. And I'm not referring to any of the ND, BYU, spotted owl or other shows because it's fantastic when the stir the pot.

Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - Leftcoast - 01-04-2016

Another thumbs up.  As someone who attends a fair number of contests beyond football  and football bowls, the band is THE best supporter of Stanford sports and I'd be very, very concerned about how Stanford's sports culture would change if the "adults" decide to take over.

Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - pauloalto - 01-04-2016

Like Cornfed I also grew up in Iowa and to say Iowans have no sense of humor seems to be using a pretty broad brush. I've been reading the Iowa sports boards and my impression is that many Iowans are upset about the performance because:

1) They don't know that Stanford is known as "the farm", so when the voice-over says "We’re from the Farm!" they assume the speaker is meant to be an Iowan.

2) When the voice-over says "band looking for a band!", they heard "man looking for a man!".




Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - jacketree - 01-04-2016

Thanks Farm93, responses like that help me better understand the group's dynamic.

I grew up playing trumpet and marched through high school.  We had a large, competitive band where musicianship trumped everything.  I missed half of my sophomore (first) year because I was on crutches in the fall (lumberjack accident!) and even when I started to walk again, the director thought the limp really messed up my sound.  I marched my first quarter at Tech, which was an essentially student-run band with adult moderation.  Just about everything at Tech is graded, and a decent grade in even a one-unit course mattered, so I stuck it out through to the bitter end (annihilation at the hands of UGA on national TV) despite the complete lack of practice (my chops went to crap), and what I felt was a cliquish in-crowd that ran everything and stuck the out-crowd with the boring 3rd parts. And we couldn't drink during games.  Screw that. Fun trip to Knoxville and everything, but I can understand how a band without real musicians doesn't sound great. I should really lighten up on that criticism.

So here's a question:  are there enough musicians at Stanford (amateur or pro) to improve the sound?  Would better musicians play if the band wasn't always in such hot water?

I honestly don't know which pots really need stirring at a football halftime.  Kinda worked in that "That's alright, that's OK; you'll be working for us someday" vein when wins weren't so frequent.  Adding affluenza halftime shows to the mix as Stanford turns into a Death Star program isn't all that cute.  In an entirely free marketplace, where they would be met with bloody noses instead of boos, maybe the outcome is a little different.

If I am a band supporter I wouldn't be that worried about adult supervision taking over at this point.  I once thought the LSJUMB might go the way of UVA's band after they insulted the State of West Virginia one too many times, but clearly if LSJUMB can get away with their on-field complaint history (free speech baby!) and more to the point, the off-field rap sheet (shouldn't there have been jail time for some of that?) it's never going to happen. There must be some big time donors behind them; or at least enough to keep big time donors that dislike the band at bay.

I really don't think the only choices are Triumph the Insult Comic Dog or Goosestepping Nazi Band.  (Actually no band goosesteps - not possible to play at the same time.)

Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - CTcard - 01-04-2016

(01-04-2016, 12:28 PM)jacketree link Wrote:You were in the band I believe, so I'll ask you (and others) why they don't do more scripts like the 'Lost State of East Carolina.'  That was pretty funny and who would be offended by that? 

I don't really have any inside track on reading the minds of current band members - and of course I am old (was already history by the time of that East Carolina show). But I will do my best to answer.

At least in theme, I thought the "Lost State of East Carolina" show was rather funny. At this point I don't remember if the actual show was particularly funny. 

But, people were offended by that show. If I remember correctly, the good folks associated with ECU thought this was piling on concerning the lack of respect they receive from folks in North Carolina who give all their attention and resources to UNC and NC State - and Duke in a different sense. It can be tough to be a directional school - and in a directional state no less.
I do think their outrage was tempered by their jubilation over upsetting major-conference big-time opponent Stanford in the game itself.

---------------
I am also not sure that the East Carolina script was really qualitatively different from the Iowa show.

I can't say for sure the detailed thought process in coming up with the show, but my guess is it's pretty much something like:
1. What do we think of first when we hear [opponent]?
(which of course usually means most common stereotype)
2. How can we reference that in some way that might be kind of funny?
3. How can we connect it to us - in some way that might be kind of funny?

So, for East Carolina I think the first thing they thought up was, "Wait a minute, I have heard of North Carolina and South Carolina, what is (and where is) East Carolina?"

Iowa is less obscure, so the first thing isn't where or what is it, but  farms. Then "hey, we're at 'The Farm' too". Then, "isn't there some annoying commercial that's always on about a dating site for farmers?"
Not so hard to see how they got there.


Quote:
Even Friday they could have done something like a salute to Iowan music that is not the Music Man. (Everly Bros, Glenn Miller, Radio Moscow, and speaking of speed metal played too loud, Slipknot.)  That wouldn't generate a million threads on the internet, but it would have been entertaining.

Really ... are you so sure that would have been entertaining?

Who knows what reaction that show would have raised. It seems to me likely to have raised hackles of those claiming the LSJUMB was ridiculing the sacred figures of Iowa cultural history.

Quote: I know they've been doing this stuff for 50+ years, but maybe it's time for a change.  I'm still not convinced the Rose Bowl is the right venue for one's inner Jim Gaffigan, particularly when you aren't as good as Jim Gaffigan.

This is a common refrain. Maybe true. I certainly get annoyed at them sometimes, particularly when the band sounds particularly bad - and when I am completely confused about what the show is supposed to be.

Of course most bands have been doing the same stuff for about 100+ years and don't seem to have many calls for a change. True, they don't seem to annoy people so much, but also don't seem to entertain people very much either - really how many people make a point to watch halftime shows?

As a one time semi-serious musician, I am generically appalled by the idea of trying to play music while moving and outside in a group spread out over 6000 square yards trying to get 50,000+ people to hear you. No large marching band sounds very good - and being in one is generally terrible for your playing skills. I know I would never have joined one that took itself seriously.

Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - jacketree - 01-04-2016

Who doesn't like the Everly Brothers? I know. Someone.  (I'll give you Slipknot.)

You are entirely correct about moving and playing well at the same time.  Almost impossible.  But some bands sure pull it off.  The secret if you watch carefully is not to play and move at the same time.  You obfuscate with rifle teams, drumline cadences , etc. while you move to the next formation. I am blown away by Texas A&Ms band.  They move with precision while they play and sound good doing it. Way too militaristic for Stanford I know, but they are good.  I went to last year's Navy-Ohio State game in Baltimore.  Ohio State's band is also really, really good. Script Ohio is really worth watching. (That show is available on You Tube; they even did a salute to their hosts at USNA. No one at Ohio State died from embarrassment.)

Could they live without a script?  Sounds too hard impossible to get it just right even with major oversight. Find good music most enough people like and rock out.

Maybe Stanford should just get a giant dump truck-sized drum and wheel it around with four guys.  All would be forgiven.


Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - 2 for 2028 - 01-04-2016

(01-04-2016, 02:33 PM)jacketree link Wrote:Maybe Stanford should just get a giant dump truck-sized drum and wheel it around with four guys.  All would be forgiven.

Is this a dig at Purdue?

Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - 76lsjumb - 01-04-2016

As my nom de Board suggests, I was [long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away] also a LSJUMB member, and still have some alumni involvement, so this has been a very interesting thread to follow [and definitely less agitating than the 45 minute conversation with a number of incensed Iowans in the breakfast area of the Van Nuys Holiday Inn Express last Saturday (although the cinnamon rolls were very good)].

To succeed at Stanford, the Band has to achieve something that is not easy to do:  it has to integrate the right number of FarmBoys ["I was a terrible musician" who was very enthusiastic about Stanford sports] with the right number of CTCards ["As a one-time semi-serious musician"] so that it can simultaneously fulfill its aspirations of being the world's largest rock and roll band AND actually field enough people to do spell-outs that are longer than 2 or 3 letters.  And it has to do it with Stanford students.

The Band is part musical group and part fraternity/sorority.  When the balance is good, the Band is as well.  When the balance gets out of whack, not so much.  What concerns me the most -- trigger alert:  An OF is about to say "When I was in Band..." -- is what has been alluded to elsewhere:  The quality of the music/sound recently.  Fortunately, a number of steps are being taken in that regard that, I am hopeful, will improve the sound.  As for whether or not the Band continues to offend people, I think Robbie is spot on:  the halftime show could be a series of straight lines with no commentary whatsoever and people would still boo because, hey, it's the LSJUMB and getting booed is what they do!

Any attempt to emulate the good Big Ten marching bands would be a disaster.  See, e.g., the U.SC band.  The LSJUMB is Saturday Night Live; it's not The Ed Sullivan Show.


Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - PrinceLightfoot - 01-04-2016

(01-03-2016, 11:38 AM)Mick link Wrote:5)  They spent half a year's pay to come to Southern California...and I'll tell you, every time I've ever visited any Midwestern city other than Chicago, I've thought to myself "Thank goodness I don't live here."  I'm sure Des Moines and all the other Iowa towns and cities are perfectly fine, but I'd rather live in Alviso than any one of them.  So when they visit our fair state, especially those here for the first time, they are a bit taken aback at how darned terrific it is.

Iowa:
I live in Des Moines and have for almost 10 years. With no previous midwest exposure or ties, I can say that I love it out here (except for Winter). The people are 10x more approachable than Californians and definitely nicer. While recognizing rural roots, there is enough here to entertain and satisfy the demands of an urbanite like myself. Do not knock it unless you have truly tried it.

Before The Rose Bowl:
Most of my friends (who are Hawkeye fans/alumni) were not looking forward to playing Stanford. Those who follow college football knew that our offense was too balanced and that would be a problem. On the other hand, they felt they would gash us rushing the ball. Of course, there were a few who brought up Northwestern comparisons as a point of hope. The all uniformly thought we wouldn't be able to handle a power offense for more than a half because we just do not face that in the PAC12 and our front seven was a weakness. We would lead at halftime, but they would make it a game by the 4th quarter. Most predicted a close game save for a couple of homers who still thought we were the PAC10.

All were very excited to be going to the Rose bowl. One of my best friends had been talking about it for years telling me that if Iowa ever went to the Rose bowl, he was definitely going to make the trip. The level of excitement was great to see. I wore Stanford gear the last day I worked and which raised eyebrows of those who didn't know me.

The LSJUMB
I am a former band member, so my bias says this was a tame performance at least compared to what we did in the 90s, but the script made sense contextually and was definitely not offensive. Several texted to me that the show was stupid or were bewildered having seen the LSJUMB for the first time; they just weren't used to seeing a scatter band and couldn't hear the narration. The perception definitely was that the band was making fun of Iowa for being a farm state.

The band's level of musicianship will not become better because that means excluding those who cannot play making the band so small it just isn't heard or not large enough to create meanigful formations. I was a professional trumpet player, but playing next to several below average trumpz created enough dissonance that it didn't matter. When it comes to creating "good" music within an ensemble, it only takes one playing out of tune to ruin what sounds "good". Raising the level of skill of less talented musicians requires an investment I am almost sure most are not willing to provide. Money will not solve that issue. During my time, the better musicians also happen to be the biggest fans and were part of the pep bands for basketball games and other events; a world of difference in the quality of that group versus the football productions. Beyond all of this, I wouldn't want to change the flavor of the band with requirements. It would be counter to its irreverent and let's-just-have-fun purpose.

Today is my first day back at work in a couple of weeks and most who went to the game took today off. Those who are in haven't said anything yet and I am not the type to rub it in; cannot stand gloating or jeering. So, we may not talk about the Rose bowl until later this week. I will post their perceptions once I have enough of them.

Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - 76lsjumb - 01-04-2016

(01-04-2016, 03:33 PM)PrinceLightfoot link Wrote:The LSJUMB
I am a former band member, so my bias says this was a tame performance at least compared to what we did in the 90s, but the script made sense contextually and was definitely not offensive. Several texted to me that the show was stupid or were bewildered having seen the LSJUMB for the first time; they just weren't used to seeing a scatter band and couldn't hear the narration. The perception definitely was that the band was making fun of them for being a farm state.

The band's level of musicianship will not become better because that means excluding those who cannot play making the band so small it just isn't heard or not large enough to create meanigful formations. I was a professional trumpet player, but playing next to several below average trumpz created enough dissonance that it didn't matter. When it comes to creating "good" music within an ensemble, it only takes one playing out of tune to ruin what sounds "good". Raising the level of skill of less talented musicians requires an investment I am almost sure most are not willing to provide. Money will not solve that issue. During my time, the better musicians also happen to be the biggest fans and were part of the pep bands for basketball games and other events; a world of difference in the quality of that group versus the football productions.

You may prove to be correct about this, but at least you should know that, in fact, an effort is now seriously being pursued to make the level of investment [at both the individual and group [i.e., section] levels] that you [and I] believe is required to improve the sound quality to a noticeable extent.  Red Vest will always contain the better musicians, and the kitchen sink player(s) will never add to the sound quality of the band at football games, but that doesn't mean that the overall musical performance level of those in between can't be noticeably improved.  Of course, it will also help if we get some good new charts [or if Chicago and Doobie Brothers revivals become really popular... :-) ]

Why not supertitles on the big scoreboard screens? - oldalum - 01-04-2016

At home games I can understand only 1/3 of what the band announcers say; it would enhance everyone's enjoyment of the band (or dismay) if they knew what they were saying. Supertitles would require good timing but if the opera can do it, Stanford can too.

this Iowan didn't even see it - Rally - 01-04-2016

And he's still pissed.  Mildly.

http://www.theporkdiaries.com/openlettertostanford/

Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - yvonne - 01-04-2016

Amazing. The writer starts out admitting that he didn't watch the skit, but that he finds it offensive, and NOT ONE commenter has called him out on it.

Re: this Iowan didn't even see it - 76lsjumb - 01-04-2016

(01-04-2016, 04:14 PM)ferrari link Wrote:And he's still pissed.  Mildly.

http://www.theporkdiaries.com/openlettertostanford/

"The Pork Diaries"?  Really?  Boy, are we lucky that apparently no one in the Band had heard of this website BEFORE the game...

I liked that reference to the "kale revolution."  Why on earth would she mention that?  Surely, it couldn't be that she's making fun of Californians all eating organically grown kale...that would be a stereotype.

In the end, though, if she's right that the Band "raised the eyebrows of our great nation and farming communities everywhere," that is truly awesome.  With 40-whatever Bowl games, and assuming two bands per Bowl game, I'll bet there are roughly 79 half-time performances about which no one across our great nation even gave a thought, let alone remember at this point...

Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - jacketree - 01-04-2016

(01-04-2016, 02:38 PM)2 for 2028 link Wrote:[quote author=jacketree link=topic=14252.msg151083#msg151083 date=1451943219]
Maybe Stanford should just get a giant dump truck-sized drum and wheel it around with four guys.  All would be forgiven.

Is this a dig at Purdue?
[/quote]

That's who I had in my mind, but it was a dig at the whole giant drum concept in general rather than Purdue specifically.  I think a few bands have one (Mizzou, Florida, Texas; even Harvard has its own Big Bertha).  I always thought it would be funny for LSJUMB to roll out not a giant drum, but an actual  giant dump truck tire with some fabric stretched across it that read "World's Largest Dump Truck Tire Posing as a Giant Drum" or something like that. Works better when the opposite band has one of these:

[Image: purdue-largest-drum.jpg]

I mean you are sort of insulting them, but at that point objecting to the dig just looks really whiny.

Hasn't U.S. and C occasionally done some scatter stuff just to poke fun at LSJUMB?  Totally harmless and inoffensive and we'd boo them mercilessly. Although, I no longer trust my memory with much to be honest.

Sorry to hear it is so hard to get decent musicians these days.  Our high school of maybe 1,500 had a 300-person strong marching band, divided into two halves for daily practice.  All spots through tryouts. It was just a garden variety public high school, nothing magnetic about it.  For whatever reason we had a lot of musicians. Top trumpeter went to Julliard. #2 guy went to Eastman, #3 was really good too, but I think she became a EE, #4 went to Berklee SOM, somebody went to Yale for music, etc. Maybe times have changed. I don't go to high school games outside the WCAL, and I think only Riordan and St. Francis even have bands.

Anyway, maybe they can learn to tune the sinks and skateboards and it'll sound a little better.


Re: this Iowan didn't even see it - jacketree - 01-04-2016

(01-04-2016, 04:14 PM)ferrari link Wrote:And he's still pissed.  Mildly.

http://www.theporkdiaries.com/openlettertostanford/

It's a she (Alicia) and there is some unintentional comedy gold in those comments.


And suddenly I hanker for pulled pork tonight.  Maybe this is all a subliminal conspiracy to make me gain weight while making Iowa rich.


The other white meat.....mmmmmmmm.........

Re: this Iowan didn't even see it - CrazedZooChimp - 01-04-2016

(01-04-2016, 04:45 PM)jacketree link Wrote:[quote author=ferrari link=topic=14252.msg151119#msg151119 date=1451949241]
And he's still pissed.  Mildly.

http://www.theporkdiaries.com/openlettertostanford/

It's a she (Alicia) and there is some unintentional comedy gold in those comments.


And suddenly I hanker for pulled pork tonight.  Maybe this is all a subliminal conspiracy to make me gain weight while making Iowa rich.


The other white meat.....mmmmmmmm.........
[/quote]

I hope that someday I get to voice outrage at something I haven't seen or heard, just because it seems like a good thing to do.  Maybe someone should start a rumor that the Iowa band made jokes that insulted hard working computer programmers everywhere.

Of course, I also find it funny that they all seem to think everyone in band or at Stanford is from California.  I had multiple friends in the band who were from Iowa (actually, a seemingly disproportionate number based on the total percentage of Stanford from Iowa), and others whose families had farms.

Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - 76lsjumb - 01-04-2016

(01-04-2016, 04:38 PM)jacketree link Wrote:Sorry to hear it is so hard to get decent musicians these days.  Our high school of maybe 1,500 had a 300-person strong marching band, divided into two halves for daily practice.  All spots through tryouts. It was just a garden variety public high school, nothing magnetic about it.  For whatever reason we had a lot of musicians. Top trumpeter went to Julliard. #2 guy went to Eastman, #3 was really good too, but I think she became a EE, #4 went to Berklee SOM, somebody went to Yale for music, etc. Maybe times have changed. I don't go to high school games outside the WCAL, and I think only Riordan and St. Francis even have bands.

Anyway, maybe they can learn to tune the sinks and skateboards and it'll sound a little better.

It's not impossible to get decent musicians for the LSJUMB -- at least one I know of has gone on to win a Pulitzer Prize for music composition -- but, unlike University of Illinois and many other "traditional marching band" schools, you're  not likely to get vast numbers of LSJUMB members who aspire to Juilliard, Eastman, etc.  There just isn't enough time in the day to perfect those elite musical talents in wind ensemble, orchestra, etc., pass all your other courses, AND attend rehearsals/games for football shows.  Occasionally, you get folks who like to give concussions to mice -- [url]http://mmqb.si.com/2014/04/17/mouse-concussions-nfl-cte[url], but, for the most part, you need to find people who are willing to spend boatloads of time for one unit because they like sports [including not just football, but women's volleyball, men's and women's basketball, the occasional men's and women's soccer games, all-campus rallies, etc.] AND who are also pretty good musicians and/or willing to spend a fair amount of time taking lessons to become good musicians.

Also, you are correct that the Toejam Band [quite often] attempts to spoof the LSJUMB.  Almost always makes for an awkward performance, there is indeed a lot of booing, but no one, to my knowledge, has EVER taken the time to write an Open Letter to U.SC about it [after all, why do that when you can respond by doing a show about their famous "Girls Gone Wild" director alumnus? Of course, when the Toejams do that show, it sure looks like -- and sources have confirmed after speaking with them on various occasions -- they are having a lot of fun.

Speaking of famous alumni, I don't think I have seen any comments [although I may have missed them] in the context of this whole disrespecting Iowa discussion about the competing "famous  person" interviews done at the Rose Bowl.  Our representative:  Condi Rice.  Iowa's:  Tom Arnold.

'Nuff said.

Re: Iowa fans discover the Stanford Band - And are very angry and very confused - dabigv13 - 01-04-2016

My buddy used to play tuba in the SC band. The "countermarch" they do when playing against Stanford incorporates some zany scattering, and was his favorite show to do. Sounded pretty miserable otherwise, and their band director sounded like a real prick.