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Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - Printable Version

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Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - AthleticsDynasty - 10-02-2016

After the botched clock management of last week + getting smacked on friday Shaw MUST make adjustments or else he will lose this team.

First things first; if you're going to be a 3 yards and a cloud of dust team you have to be willing to go for it on 4th and short the majority of the time. Secondly its time for a week of full pads full contact practice. Third open competition on the OL

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - AthleticsDynasty - 10-02-2016

After the botched clock management of last week + getting smacked on friday Shaw MUST make adjustments or else he will lose this team.

First things first; if you're going to be a 3 yards and a cloud of dust team you have to be willing to go for it on 4th and short the majority of the time. Secondly its time for a week of full pads full contact practice. Third open competition on the OL

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - yvonne - 10-02-2016

This might not turn out to be a good team, but I think talk of the team abandoning the coach is a bit premature, particularly in light of the fact that the scant evidence we've seen so far is the complete opposite.

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - yvonne - 10-02-2016

This might not turn out to be a good team, but I think talk of the team abandoning the coach is a bit premature, particularly in light of the fact that the scant evidence we've seen so far is the complete opposite.

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - dabigv13 - 10-02-2016

(10-02-2016, 04:13 PM)AthleticsDynasty link Wrote:After the botched clock management of last week + getting smacked on friday Shaw MUST make adjustments or else he will lose this team.

First things first; if you're going to be a 3 yards and a cloud of dust team you have to be willing to go for it on 4th and short the majority of the time. Secondly its time for a week of full pads full contact practice. Third open competition on the OL

This is a ridiculous post. Lose this team, LOL.

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - dabigv13 - 10-02-2016

(10-02-2016, 04:13 PM)AthleticsDynasty link Wrote:After the botched clock management of last week + getting smacked on friday Shaw MUST make adjustments or else he will lose this team.

First things first; if you're going to be a 3 yards and a cloud of dust team you have to be willing to go for it on 4th and short the majority of the time. Secondly its time for a week of full pads full contact practice. Third open competition on the OL

This is a ridiculous post. Lose this team, LOL.

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - Hurlburt88 - 10-02-2016

I don't think Shaw loses this team--I think the opposite.  I believe they will band together this week and the physicality will take a step up.  We'll see . . . this is my expectation! 

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - Hurlburt88 - 10-02-2016

I don't think Shaw loses this team--I think the opposite.  I believe they will band together this week and the physicality will take a step up.  We'll see . . . this is my expectation! 

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - thunder_chik - 10-02-2016

(10-02-2016, 06:02 PM)hurlburt88 link Wrote:I don't think Shaw loses this team--I think the opposite.  I believe they will band together this week and the physicality will take a step up.  We'll see . . . this is my expectation!
Best case scenario:  This loss, like last season's loss to NW, becomes a catalyst for the team to coalesce and focus on becoming better.  Don't wallow in regrets--suck it up, shake it off, and get a move on!!
Every one of our remaining games is an opportunity to notch a  W.  To hell with style points!  Let's roll, Go Stanford!

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - thunder_chik - 10-02-2016

(10-02-2016, 06:02 PM)hurlburt88 link Wrote:I don't think Shaw loses this team--I think the opposite.  I believe they will band together this week and the physicality will take a step up.  We'll see . . . this is my expectation!
Best case scenario:  This loss, like last season's loss to NW, becomes a catalyst for the team to coalesce and focus on becoming better.  Don't wallow in regrets--suck it up, shake it off, and get a move on!!
Every one of our remaining games is an opportunity to notch a  W.  To hell with style points!  Let's roll, Go Stanford!

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - fullmetal - 10-03-2016

(10-02-2016, 08:55 AM)hurlburt88 link Wrote:I am not sure about the individuals, but clearly we would benefit from improved o-line execution.  That said I want to repeat thoughts already expressed about sprint-outs and plays like Spider-3 y-banana.  And finally is Greg Roman still available as a consultant?

Right.  And apparently we don't install hot routes as quick first reads in case of overwhelming pressure.  Or we don't playaction to the TE out of the heavy formation.  I feel like a broken record.  Misdirection and versatility used to be hallmarks of Stanford's offense.  Running a reverse out of a wildcat after pounding CMac into a 9-man box out of the shotgun is not misdirection or offensive creativity at all.  It's desperation.

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - fullmetal - 10-03-2016

(10-02-2016, 08:55 AM)hurlburt88 link Wrote:I am not sure about the individuals, but clearly we would benefit from improved o-line execution.  That said I want to repeat thoughts already expressed about sprint-outs and plays like Spider-3 y-banana.  And finally is Greg Roman still available as a consultant?

Right.  And apparently we don't install hot routes as quick first reads in case of overwhelming pressure.  Or we don't playaction to the TE out of the heavy formation.  I feel like a broken record.  Misdirection and versatility used to be hallmarks of Stanford's offense.  Running a reverse out of a wildcat after pounding CMac into a 9-man box out of the shotgun is not misdirection or offensive creativity at all.  It's desperation.

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - OutsiderFan - 10-03-2016

I wonder if the coaching staff underestimated UW and overestimated Stanford's abilities on both the offensive and defensive lines.  Because if you feel the other team has an advantage in the trenches, you absolutely do not play such a conventional and uncreative scheme as Stanford employed Friday night.

Usually, if you think the DL you are facing is superior, you will do a lot of misdirection, move the pocket, run draws out of passing sets, etc.  If you think the CBs are going to struggle, and question if you can get to the QB with four pass rushers, you blitz to get the ball out of the QB's hands quickly.

I wonder if the coaches were surprised by how physically inferior Stanford was, particularly on the OL, early, but thought they might get their mojo back in the second quarter or something.  There is a fine line between sticking with what you believe in and being patient, and not adjusting fast enough. 

At the end of the day, games like that are learning opportunities for coaches and players.  As Dabo Swinney said after Clemson's win over Louisville, "we have to put players in position to be successful, but at the end of the day, players have to make plays to win."  I don't think Stanford's coaches put the players in the best positions to be successful, so it's really tough to blame the players, other than maybe Dalton Schultz, who had his second terrible game in a row when in position to make plays.




Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - OutsiderFan - 10-03-2016

I wonder if the coaching staff underestimated UW and overestimated Stanford's abilities on both the offensive and defensive lines.  Because if you feel the other team has an advantage in the trenches, you absolutely do not play such a conventional and uncreative scheme as Stanford employed Friday night.

Usually, if you think the DL you are facing is superior, you will do a lot of misdirection, move the pocket, run draws out of passing sets, etc.  If you think the CBs are going to struggle, and question if you can get to the QB with four pass rushers, you blitz to get the ball out of the QB's hands quickly.

I wonder if the coaches were surprised by how physically inferior Stanford was, particularly on the OL, early, but thought they might get their mojo back in the second quarter or something.  There is a fine line between sticking with what you believe in and being patient, and not adjusting fast enough. 

At the end of the day, games like that are learning opportunities for coaches and players.  As Dabo Swinney said after Clemson's win over Louisville, "we have to put players in position to be successful, but at the end of the day, players have to make plays to win."  I don't think Stanford's coaches put the players in the best positions to be successful, so it's really tough to blame the players, other than maybe Dalton Schultz, who had his second terrible game in a row when in position to make plays.




Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - stupac2 - 10-03-2016

Given the evidence we had this year, wasn't everyone surprised by how well UW played in comparison to us? I have to think even Petersen didn't see that coming. What little evidence we had (basically just the UA game) said that UW's lines were both problematic and that we ought to be able to handle them. It seems like two things happened:

1) UW did not play well against UA but did against us.
2) We did not play well against UW.

Which explains the dramatic swing. You can get away with playing badly against an inferior foe, but playing badly against a good team is a recipe for disaster, as we saw.

I do wonder why we move the pocket so little with Burns. It's not like he's immobile, and it's not like that's some crazy scheme (we did it plenty with Luck), but my faulty memory is that we did that less and less with Hogan as time went on. If that's true then maybe the staff think the disadvantages (DBs only need to cover half the field, QB needs to be accurate on the run) outweigh the advantages (negates pass rush). You'd think we could afford to do it a few times a game though.

But it's not like we don't do other semi-creative things. We run the read option, we try to do a sweep or reverse once or twice a game, we run the wildcat (though I'm not sure we're doing it well this year). In 2014 when this was a long topic of discussion I was of the opinion that playcalling doesn't really matter too much, if your guys can't make plays then it hardly matters which ones they aren't making. Now shifting the entire scheme could matter, IIRC people smarter than I am said our offense picked up last year after we started doing more zone blocking, but figuring out what to do there is pretty darn complicated and I doubt any of us really know what's up.

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - stupac2 - 10-03-2016

Given the evidence we had this year, wasn't everyone surprised by how well UW played in comparison to us? I have to think even Petersen didn't see that coming. What little evidence we had (basically just the UA game) said that UW's lines were both problematic and that we ought to be able to handle them. It seems like two things happened:

1) UW did not play well against UA but did against us.
2) We did not play well against UW.

Which explains the dramatic swing. You can get away with playing badly against an inferior foe, but playing badly against a good team is a recipe for disaster, as we saw.

I do wonder why we move the pocket so little with Burns. It's not like he's immobile, and it's not like that's some crazy scheme (we did it plenty with Luck), but my faulty memory is that we did that less and less with Hogan as time went on. If that's true then maybe the staff think the disadvantages (DBs only need to cover half the field, QB needs to be accurate on the run) outweigh the advantages (negates pass rush). You'd think we could afford to do it a few times a game though.

But it's not like we don't do other semi-creative things. We run the read option, we try to do a sweep or reverse once or twice a game, we run the wildcat (though I'm not sure we're doing it well this year). In 2014 when this was a long topic of discussion I was of the opinion that playcalling doesn't really matter too much, if your guys can't make plays then it hardly matters which ones they aren't making. Now shifting the entire scheme could matter, IIRC people smarter than I am said our offense picked up last year after we started doing more zone blocking, but figuring out what to do there is pretty darn complicated and I doubt any of us really know what's up.

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - Renaissance Man - 10-03-2016

While I agree that the manner in which we lost was surprising and disheartening, most of the people on this board predicted at least 2 losses this season, given the difficulty of the schedule.  Of all of the games on the schedule, UW was the one that concerned me the most--short week following Under Stanford Control (again). and UCLA (on the road) in a tough road stadium, a top-notch defense and a talented, well-coached offense.  If I was going to choose the most likely spot on the schedule for a loss, this was the week.  That was before there were so many key injuries.  Coming off of a road game at night, Stanford basically had Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday to game plan, put new players in unfamiliar positions, recover from a very physical game, and practice. UW had at least one extra day to prepare.  The sky is not falling, and I expect things to get better, although I do wish that Washington State had not rediscovered their offense just in time to play us.  On the other hand, we are the team with two extra days to prepare for this Saturday. 

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - Renaissance Man - 10-03-2016

While I agree that the manner in which we lost was surprising and disheartening, most of the people on this board predicted at least 2 losses this season, given the difficulty of the schedule.  Of all of the games on the schedule, UW was the one that concerned me the most--short week following Under Stanford Control (again). and UCLA (on the road) in a tough road stadium, a top-notch defense and a talented, well-coached offense.  If I was going to choose the most likely spot on the schedule for a loss, this was the week.  That was before there were so many key injuries.  Coming off of a road game at night, Stanford basically had Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday to game plan, put new players in unfamiliar positions, recover from a very physical game, and practice. UW had at least one extra day to prepare.  The sky is not falling, and I expect things to get better, although I do wish that Washington State had not rediscovered their offense just in time to play us.  On the other hand, we are the team with two extra days to prepare for this Saturday. 

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - martyup - 10-03-2016

Intelectual brutality?  This week we need  to be less intellectual and more brutal.  >:(

Re: Out coached? Out prepared? Out played? - martyup - 10-03-2016

Intelectual brutality?  This week we need  to be less intellectual and more brutal.  >:(