WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48

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RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - Deejaatee - 11-08-2022

My thoughts on game one.

I enjoyed watching this game. For the first game of the year it was exciting with lots of great plays. And most importantly we got the chance to see everyone play. Everyone was able to show what's possible (even Fran with her mid-key jump shot).

Overall, the team showed that they are able to embrace the new offense reasonably well. It will be interesting to see how it works down the road when they have more time to perfect it. They also showed that there is still a lot of energy there for playing defense. That is where we lost the most from last year's team.

Individually, I liked what I saw from every player. Even the freshmen were able to show something of their skillsets and how they might be able to contribute this year.

Haley: Haley was Haley. She moves so smoothly on the court. She is able to get to her shot whenever she wants to. She is able to slide from PG to W to PF depending on what Tara asks of her. She is also still tries to make plays that aren't there for her teammates.

Cam: Cam had a nice game. A little scoring. A little rebounding A lot of blocks. Even a 3 pter. And she moves better up and down the court than any other big in the country. What I really enjoyed watching was how she tracked several drivers before blocking their shots without fouling them.

Hannah: Hannah still has the deadly 3 pt shot. She didn't take a lot, but she is always the threat from there. I like two things in her game. First, she has always been a technician when it comes to defense. She knows where she is supposed to be. It was nice to see that her conditioning is allowing her to get there easier now. And her continued growth inside the arc is going to be a great help as people camp out on the 3 pt line defending her.

Kiki: It's nice to see Kiki getting the start. She has so much potential, especially on the offensive side. Her post moves are easy on the eyes. And, while she didn't show it her, she apparently has added a mid-range jump shot. Where she still needs work is on the defensive side. She is quick but doesn't use her quickness yet to get good positioning on her opponents. This of course will come in time.

Emma: I am not sure yet on Emma. I get why Tara is starting her. She likes to start upper classmen, hustle players. And that is what Emma is. As one announcer said in the exhibition, she keeps her feet moving. Where she still is not there is in finishing around the hoop on offense. If she is going to take the Lacie Hull role (minus the PG part), she will have to find a shot.

Ashten: Ashten is always the coolest player on the court. Very little emotion (which may play against her). But each year she has improved what she brings to the table. She now has some inside moves. She is getting more into the mix fighting for rebounds. What's interesting in the game is that she focused on her other skills including looking to assist others rather than shoot. Cause we know she can shoot.

Fran: Fran did not play very much with her injury. But she did show one of the things she has been working on. A mid-key jump shot. While I think the other posts all have better post skills than she does, she has the intangible stuff. It will be fun to see how Tara uses her later in the year when she is healthy with the others in front of her.

Talana: She was my favorite player on the court. We have needed to true point guard for several years. While we have had great talent (Kiana, a tween scoring PG) and Lacie (a tall, active PG), we have not had a playmaking PG in years. Talana showed that she understands her role of moving the ball quickly, running the offense, and finding open (of available) shooters. She showed great skill in handling the ball, moving it up the court, and finding her people in scoring position. And, for those who are concerned about people playing off her, she showed that she was willing to both drive to the hoop, and shoot from distance. In thinking back to last year's Final Four game, what we were missing (besides so many shots) was someone who could get us into our offense. I think Talana is going to prove to be that person.

Indya: Indya may turn out to be the perfect pairing with Talana. She is quick. She is aggressive. She can shoot from all 3 levels. She can play defense with quick hands. And she is not afraid of contact. Even with just a few minutes of playing together, I can see that she and Talana work well together.

Elena: Every year I find one player that is not a starter that I root for. This year, I think it is going to be Elena. I love her energy on the court. And I like that she is such an excellent athlete. She moves well without the ball. She has good handles when driving with the ball. She can shoot the 3. She goes in and gets rebounds. And she is active on defense (more to come as she improves). It will be interesting to see how Tara uses her.

Brooke: Brooke reminds me of a taller Hannah, when Hannah first started. She has all the fundamentals down. She understands the game. And she can score from anywhere on the court. All 3 levels. It appears that Tara is going to continue using her as a Big, taking advantage of her height and bulk. I get it. It makes sense, but she will need to continue to learn the position. Again similar to Hannah. In high school, Hannah played the post, and had to learn how to be a guard in college. In high school, Brooke played the guard/wing position, and is having to learn the post. Did I say she can shoot.

Lauren B: Lauren is the future. And in very limited minutes due to her illness, she has shown that she has the skills of a post down. I love watching her work for positioning in the paint. What she needs now is teammates that understand how to get the ball to a real big. That is where I think Talana's skillset is going to come into play. What impressed me the most was watching Lauren run the floor and get rewarded with the pass and subsequent bucket. One thing that sets our bigs apart is their ability to run the floor. Having watched Lauren play in high school, I was not sure how quickly that would come. Can't wait until she gets healthier.

Jzaniya: Jzaniya is going to play down the road. First the coaches need to decide what position. Is she a PG or SG. One thing she did show was some great moves on the defensive side. That could be her ticket to the court. Her quickness and hands in covering quick guards. And she does have offensive skills when given the chance

Stavi and Lauren G: Little to see from them thus far.

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - TheWildJacko - 11-08-2022

1) No one knows how the story ends until it ends.

2) I agree the sample size is small and Lepolo's line against SDSU means little re: her performance against future opponents.

3) One of the reasons I am (I believe rightfully) excited about Lepolo's game is that her many of her assists were not run-of-the-mill pass-it-around-the-perimeter types of plays. They were difficult, extremely accurate, powerful (and sometimes fairly long) passes that hit our players in the flow of the offense and made it very hard to defend the subsequent moves to the basket. She didn't look lost out there at all and if I didn't know she was a freshman I wouldn't have believed it. She seems to know exactly what the offense is doing and where to send the ball, and that is a very good sign.

4) As others have pointed out, though her outside shot didn't fall today, she wasn't afraid to take it, and her drive to the basket for a score was very authoritative. She is not afraid to score—she just didn't need to yesterday.

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - WBB fan - 11-08-2022

(11-08-2022, 08:10 AM)Deejaatee Wrote: My thoughts on game one.

I enjoyed watching this game. For the first game of the year it was exciting with lots of great plays. And most importantly we got the chance to see everyone play. Everyone was able to show what's possible (even Fran with her mid-key jump shot).

Overall, the team showed that they are able to embrace the new offense reasonably well. It will be interesting to see how it works down the road when they have more time to perfect it. They also showed that there is still a lot of energy there for playing defense. That is where we lost the most from last year's team.

Individually, I liked what I saw from every player. Even the freshmen were able to show something of their skillsets and how they might be able to contribute this year.

Haley: Haley was Haley. She moves so smoothly on the court. She is able to get to her shot whenever she wants to. She is able to slide from PG to W to PF depending on what Tara asks of her. She is also still tries to make plays that aren't there for her teammates.

Cam: Cam had a nice game. A little scoring. A little rebounding A lot of blocks. Even a 3 pter. And she moves better up and down the court than any other big in the country. What I really enjoyed watching was how she tracked several drivers before blocking their shots without fouling them.

Hannah: Hannah still has the deadly 3 pt shot. She didn't take a lot, but she is always the threat from there. I like two things in her game. First, she has always been a technician when it comes to defense. She knows where she is supposed to be. It was nice to see that her conditioning is allowing her to get there easier now. And her continued growth inside the arc is going to be a great help as people camp out on the 3 pt line defending her.

Kiki: It's nice to see Kiki getting the start. She has so much potential, especially on the offensive side. Her post moves are easy on the eyes. And, while she didn't show it her, she apparently has added a mid-range jump shot. Where she still needs work is on the defensive side. She is quick but doesn't use her quickness yet to get good positioning on her opponents. This of course will come in time.

Emma: I am not sure yet on Emma. I get why Tara is starting her. She likes to start upper classmen, hustle players. And that is what Emma is. As one announcer said in the exhibition, she keeps her feet moving. Where she still is not there is in finishing around the hoop on offense. If she is going to take the Lacie Hull role (minus the PG part), she will have to find a shot.

Ashten: Ashten is always the coolest player on the court. Very little emotion (which may play against her). But each year she has improved what she brings to the table. She now has some inside moves. She is getting more into the mix fighting for rebounds. What's interesting in the game is that she focused on her other skills including looking to assist others rather than shoot. Cause we know she can shoot.

Fran: Fran did not play very much with her injury. But she did show one of the things she has been working on. A mid-key jump shot. While I think the other posts all have better post skills than she does, she has the intangible stuff. It will be fun to see how Tara uses her later in the year when she is healthy with the others in front of her.

Talana: She was my favorite player on the court. We have needed to true point guard for several years. While we have had great talent (Kiana, a tween scoring PG) and Lacie (a tall, active PG), we have not had a playmaking PG in years. Talana showed that she understands her role of moving the ball quickly, running the offense, and finding open (of available) shooters. She showed great skill in handling the ball, moving it up the court, and finding her people in scoring position. And, for those who are concerned about people playing off her, she showed that she was willing to both drive to the hoop, and shoot from distance. In thinking back to last year's Final Four game, what we were missing (besides so many shots) was someone who could get us into our offense. I think Talana is going to prove to be that person.

Indya: Indya may turn out to be the perfect pairing with Talana. She is quick. She is aggressive. She can shoot from all 3 levels. She can play defense with quick hands. And she is not afraid of contact. Even with just a few minutes of playing together, I can see that she and Talana work well together.

Elena: Every year I find one player that is not a starter that I root for. This year, I think it is going to be Elena. I love her energy on the court. And I like that she is such an excellent athlete. She moves well without the ball. She has good handles when driving with the ball. She can shoot the 3. She goes in and gets rebounds. And she is active on defense (more to come as she improves). It will be interesting to see how Tara uses her.

Brooke: Brooke reminds me of a taller Hannah, when Hannah first started. She has all the fundamentals down. She understands the game. And she can score from anywhere on the court. All 3 levels. It appears that Tara is going to continue using her as a Big, taking advantage of her height and bulk. I get it. It makes sense, but she will need to continue to learn the position. Again similar to Hannah. In high school, Hannah played the post, and had to learn how to be a guard in college. In high school, Brooke played the guard/wing position, and is having to learn the post. Did I say she can shoot.

Lauren B: Lauren is the future. And in very limited minutes due to her illness, she has shown that she has the skills of a post down. I love watching her work for positioning in the paint. What she needs now is teammates that understand how to get the ball to a real big. That is where I think Talana's skillset is going to come into play. What impressed me the most was watching Lauren run the floor and get rewarded with the pass and subsequent bucket. One thing that sets our bigs apart is their ability to run the floor. Having watched Lauren play in high school, I was not sure how quickly that would come. Can't wait until she gets healthier.

Jzaniya: Jzaniya is going to play down the road. First the coaches need to decide what position. Is she a PG or SG. One thing she did show was some great moves on the defensive side. That could be her ticket to the court. Her quickness and hands in covering quick guards. And she does have offensive skills when given the chance

Stavi and Lauren G: Little to see from them thus far.

I really enjoyed this rundown. Thanks! One thing I see a bit differently is re your comment about Lauren Betts. Maybe it's because she's been ill, but she seemed to me to lumber a bit running the court, not as mobile as I would have hoped. I anticipate that in time she's going to be really good, but in the meantime, she has a to work on.

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - chimera - 11-08-2022

This thread makes me a bit sad. We just saw a really fun game where our younger players did extremely well but the thread devolved into arguing over whether or not a freshman will or will not shoot the ball based on a tiny sample size of one game. I do not get the point of labeling a player a non-shooter at this point in her career. She shot and hit threes well in the open practice in the flow of the offense, so maybe we wait and see? But this is the internet, no wait and see.

Nor do I see the point of complaining about what Tara may or may not do with the point guards when we know two things - she values experience early in the season and she will make changes throughout the year. None of us can see the future. Coaches make changes. Players improve and grow or don't.

As for Lepolo being a non-shooter or not, does anyone remember that last year we were worried about basically the same things - who would play point guard and if we played Lacie Hull and Wilson together would their lack of offense be a problem. I think we are actually in much better shape at the point on offense this season. I'm sure Lepolo and Nivar and Harriel, if she plays point, will make mistakes give their lack of experience, but we now see we have great options besides Jones. That's a brobdingnagian win in my book, however much Lepolo shoots, and personally I think she will be just fine. She doesn't have to be a big scorer. She just has to be a credible threat to shoot or drive and be able to run the offense and break down a defense with drives and dishes or moving the ball/passing, which so far she has shown she can do. Will Tara play her a lot? I don't know. I can see that she is getting a lot of run at the point and that Tara is very pleased with her. That should tell us something.

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - cardfan1996 - 11-08-2022

“This thread makes me a bit sad.”

You shouldn’t be but we all have different POVs. In sports, I like when people don’t see the world as I do and push back. It’s just basketball and we all have our different opinions. It’s not a cheer squad and I think everyone here wants the team to live up to and surpass their #2 ranking while a player as talented as Haley is still here. I’d love to be wrong about Lepolo and Agnes. I got enthusiastic push back on my quick judgment on Agnes after the Vanguard game too. I didn’t take offense or get the sads. Though not too much push back after San Diego. I lean heavily into first impressions and very rarely does something unpredictable happen. I am open to it.

“Nor do I see the point of complaining about what Tara may or may not do with the point guards . . .”

Why not? It’s just a fan board and like other fan boards the fun is in the speculation. Tara is not infallible and like most humans, she has her patterns - most are good, some are bad.

“As for Lepolo being a non-shooter or not, does anyone remember that last year we were worried about basically the same things - who would play point guard and if we played Lacie Hull and Wilson together would their lack of offense be a problem.”

Am I the only one that watched Tara’s postgame interview after the UConn loss? But beyond that, Lacie was never a reluctant shooter; she was just spending so much time learning a new position that she wasn’t able to focus on her strengths - 3pt shooting and lockdown defense (I’d argue she was a good as her sister on defense before last year but fell off a lot with split focus (still better than everyone else on perimeter defense except Lexie)). Sahil Bloom would say she and Anna were operating outside of their “zone of genius.”

“She doesn't have to be a big scorer.”

Yes she does if other good coaches say, “Haley, Cam and Hannah will not beat me, so I will make sure that Lepolo and Agnes take every offensive shot.”

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - 81alum - 11-08-2022

(11-08-2022, 08:10 AM)Deejaatee Wrote: Overall, the team showed that they are able to embrace the new offense reasonably well. It will be interesting to see how it works down the road when they have more time to perfect it. They also showed that there is still a lot of energy there for playing defense. That is where we lost the most from last year's team.

I appreciated all of your post, but thought I would follow up about this. What do you think the new offense is? Are you referring just to new players or have you noticed something different about the scheme? I've been trying to figure it out myself.

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - stopandpop - 11-08-2022

(11-08-2022, 11:40 AM)81alum Wrote:
(11-08-2022, 08:10 AM)Deejaatee Wrote: Overall, the team showed that they are able to embrace the new offense reasonably well. It will be interesting to see how it works down the road when they have more time to perfect it. They also showed that there is still a lot of energy there for playing defense. That is where we lost the most from last year's team.
I appreciated all of your post, but thought I would follow up about this. What do you think the new offense is? Are you referring just to new players or have you noticed something different about the scheme? I've been trying to figure it out myself.

Very interesting posts and analysis. I'm not going to repeat what many of you have said about individual performances.

After watching the Vanguard exhibition and the SDSU games, I have a cautionary concern that may work itself out. So much is being asked of Haley, but it's obvious to this fan that she was much more comfortable (and lethal) playing the wing than at PG. Haley is unstoppable when she gets the ball and starts her drive at the high post or well within the 3pt. perimeter, but the further out she begins her offense, there are more defenders contesting her.

If Tara wants Haley to continue bringing the ball up, I'd like to see her pass to a teammate and move into that sweet spot (at wing) where she can move without the ball and get the pass where she can operate more effectively.

This may all work itself out as the non-conference season moves on, but just wanted to offer this thought.

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - chimera - 11-08-2022

(11-08-2022, 11:25 AM)cardfan1996 Wrote: “This thread makes me a bit sad.”

You shouldn’t be but we all have different POVs. In sports, I like when people don’t see the world as I do and push back. It’s just basketball and we all have our different opinions. It’s not a cheer squad and I think everyone here wants the team to live up to and surpass their #2 ranking while a player as talented as Haley is still here. I’d love to be wrong about Lepolo and Agnes. I got enthusiastic push back on my quick judgment on Agnes after the Vanguard game too. I didn’t take offense or get the sads. Though not too much push back after San Diego. I lean heavily into first impressions and very rarely does something unpredictable happen. I am open to it.

“Nor do I see the point of complaining about what Tara may or may not do with the point guards . . .”

Why not? It’s just a fan board and like other fan boards the fun is in the speculation. Tara is not infallible and like most humans, she has her patterns - most are good, some are bad.

“As for Lepolo being a non-shooter or not, does anyone remember that last year we were worried about basically the same things - who would play point guard and if we played Lacie Hull and Wilson together would their lack of offense be a problem.”

Am I the only one that watched Tara’s postgame interview after the UConn loss? But beyond that, Lacie was never a reluctant shooter; she was just spending so much time learning a new position that she wasn’t able to focus on her strengths - 3pt shooting and lockdown defense (I’d argue she was a good as her sister on defense before last year but fell off a lot with split focus (still better than everyone else on perimeter defense except Lexie)). Sahil Bloom would say she and Anna were operating outside of their “zone of genius.”

“She doesn't have to be a big scorer.”

Yes she does if other good coaches say, “Haley, Cam and Hannah will not beat me, so I will make sure that Lepolo and Agnes take every offensive shot.”

I don't have a problem with different opinions generally, but it bugs me when a player gets labeled in a negative way prematurely, so I tend to push back. You've been on Lepolo from the start - the inverted thing and now the no offense thing. If you don't like her as a player, that's your prerogative. It seems to me you are looking to find fault with her. If you think you can accurately judge how a freshman will develop based on one exhibition and one blow-out game, well I disagree strongly. I can recall a whole lot of freshman who looked really bad early in their freshman seasons who became excellent players, some fairly quickly. Will Lepolo be a decent scoring point guard? I don't know. I don't think there is any way to know one way or the other for fans, although if we saw practices we might have a better idea.

As for Emma-Nnopu, I am not sold on her at the 2 either. I am basing that on watching her for the past two seasons plus the Vanguard and SDSU games, but I am also allowing that it is very early and she may improve significantly. She has a new role this season. It is early. Some players need time to settle in, some do not. I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt early on, but of course YMMV.

Lacie Hull never averaged more than 5 points per game in her Stanford career and neither did Anna Wilson, despite both of them getting pretty big minutes and having plenty of opportunities to score more. I loved both of them for their defense, grit, and overall hustle, but offensive juggernauts they were not. So if we can start both of them together and make the F4 why exactly do we need to worry over what Lepolo might do on offense (especially when we really don't know what sort of offensive threat she may be now or may become)? Why do we need to worry about 5'7" Lepolo getting "inverted" when we did not have to worry about 5'8" Kiana Williams for the same reason?

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - mbdude - 11-08-2022

with the lineup that started yesterday Hannah was the only legit 3 pt threat, and SDS did not give her any room - they did sag off Emma some however. Spacing was a little better when Ashten was on the perimeter. I do think we need a 2nd viable 3 pt threat on the floor so Hannah can get open easier

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - 81alum - 11-08-2022

(11-08-2022, 11:25 AM)cardfan1996 Wrote: “She doesn't have to be a big scorer.”

Yes she does if other good coaches say, “Haley, Cam and Hannah will not beat me, so I will make sure that Lepolo and Agnes take every offensive shot.”

Shutting down those three will be difficult under any circumstances, since those three can score inside and outside and everywhere in between. Having a single player sag off the point guard to double up on those three will only work on one or at most two. I think what you would have to do would be to play a zone + 1 on Jump, choking the middle and daring the other guards to shoot from outside. But Haley and Cam could also come outside to shoot, too, making that strategy not as effective as it would have been in the era of McCall, for example.

However, I take your point. We will be much stronger against the likes of South Carolina if Lepolo and Emma-Nnopu each start to show more offense. But what about this lineup, which gives us 4 legitimate simultaneous scoring threats plus a spectacular ball distributor:

5. Iriafen
4. Brink
3. Jones
2. Jump
1. Lepolo

I take it you would prefer this instead:
5. Iriafen
4. Brink
3. Jones
2. Jump
1. Nivar

I could see that working too. At times like this, I am especially grateful for Tara!

It sounds like all of us fans are skeptical of this:
5. Iriafen
4. Brink
3. Jump
2 Emma-Nnopu
1 Jones

And how does this look, as a variant on the Jones-as-point-guard lineup
5. Iriafen
4. Brink
3. Jump
2. Nivar
1. Jones

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - stanford22 - 11-08-2022

I like this starting 5. Iriafen, Brink,Jones, Jump, Nivar. Also, let’s give Lepolo some time before we negatively label her. It’s very early, and I thinks she’s doing great!

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - TheWildJacko - 11-08-2022

(11-08-2022, 12:26 PM)mbdude Wrote: with the lineup that started yesterday Hannah was the only legit 3 pt threat, and SDS did not give her any room - they did sag off Emma some however. Spacing was a little better when Ashten was on the perimeter. I do think we need a 2nd viable 3 pt threat on the floor so Hannah can get open easier

I was all set to argue with you about how we did in fact have legit 3 pt threats out there but then I realized you were only referring to the starting lineup. With that, I mostly agree (although it was nice to see Cam hit that 3 nice and early).

It's interesting, though—I wonder if we really do need a 2nd 3-point ace on the floor right at the beginning? We already have Hannah, Jones is versatile and hard to defend in general, and Agnes will help throw the opposing guards off their game early. And then you have Cam and Kiki who are both nightmares to defend inside (and elsewhere). Maybe the strategy is to work it inside and see if Hannah can get going early, while also throwing their offense out of whack, and then when they're already off-balance, bring in Indya and/or Elena who can both slash and hit from outside. Or bring in Ashten for another inside/outside threat.

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - OCcardinal - 11-08-2022

SDSU had four top 25 votes in the pre-season Coach's Poll (1 less vote than USC got and 2 more than Gonzaga got). So I'm hopeful that it was our team's exceptional talent that made us look so dominating at times (and not their lack of talent). Anyway, there's a lot of discussion about defense/offense and our guards in the game. Here's what the Analytics say:

DRtg: points allowed by a player per 100 possessions [/b][/u]
EMMA-NNOPU,A 121.6 (13 min)
PAPADAKI,S 121.6 (5 min)
GREEN,L 121.6 (3 min)
JUMP,H 112.4 (21 min)
JONES,H 96.3 (23 min)
HARRIEL,J 91.8 (13 min)
LEPOLO,T 84.8 (21 min)
BOSGANA,E 57.1 (15 min)
NIVAR,I 47.1 (13 min)

[CORRECTION: Nivar actually had the best defensive game according to these analytics, not Emma-Nnopu. See my corrected interpretation of these stats in a post further down in this thread.]

So if defense is your priority these stats support Emma-Nnopu as a starter. [CORRECTION: Nivar would be the starter.] But it's also her second negative net points game in a row (though she wasn't alone):

Player..Pts Prod..Pts Allw..Net Pts..Fouls Drawn
JUMP, HANNAH 2..7.3..-5.3..1
EMMA-NNOPU, AGN 0..4.9..-4.9..3
PAPADAKI, STAVI 0..1.9..-1.9..2
GREEN, LAUREN 0..1.1..-1.1..0
HARRIEL, JZANIY 5.1..3.7..1.4..3
JONES, HALEY 9.8..6.9..3..6.2
LEPOLO, TALANA 10..5.5..4.5..3
BOSGANA, ELENA 7.5..2.7..4.8..4
NIVAR, INDYA 7.5..1.9..5.6..7.1

Interestingly, though Indya had the lowest defensive rating among our guards [CORRECTION: no, she actually had the best], she had the highest net points - and had a very high Fouls Drawn rating, in a range of what players like Brink, Jones and Iriafen would typically get. That suggests to me that her athleticism may be overwhelming to some defenders. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out going forward, but I'm certainly impressed with the explosiveness she's shown in the early going.
[Image: i-tstrFfN-M.gif]

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - cardfan1996 - 11-08-2022

(11-08-2022, 12:33 PM)81alum Wrote:
(11-08-2022, 11:25 AM)cardfan1996 Wrote: “She doesn't have to be a big scorer.”

Yes she does if other good coaches say, “Haley, Cam and Hannah will not beat me, so I will make sure that Lepolo and Agnes take every offensive shot.”
Shutting down those three will be difficult under any circumstances, since those three can score inside and outside and everywhere in between. Having a single player sag off the point guard to double up on those three will only work on one or at most two. I think what you would have to do would be to play a zone + 1 on Jump, choking the middle and daring the other guards to shoot from outside. But Haley and Cam could also come outside to shoot, too, making that strategy not as effective as it would have been in the era of McCall, for example.

However, I take your point. We will be much stronger against the likes of South Carolina if Lepolo and Emma-Nnopu each start to show more offense. But what about this lineup, which gives us 4 legitimate simultaneous scoring threats plus a spectacular ball distributor:

5. Iriafan
4. Brink
3. Jones
2. Jump
1. Lepolo

I take it you would prefer this instead:
5. Iriafan
4. Brink
3. Jones
2. Jump
1. Nivar

I could see that working too. At times like this, I am especially grateful for Tara!

It sounds like all of us fans are skeptical of this:
5. Iriafan
4. Brink
3. Jump
2 Emma-Nnopu
1 Jones

And how does this look, as a variant on the Jones-as-point-guard lineup
5. Iriafan
4. Brink
3. Jump
2. Nivar
1. Jones

Can’t seem to navigate the quote tweet function. Had a better reply but couldn’t save it.
In summary,
*Normally you can only stop 2 if your defense is really good but

1) Hannah is often faceguarded which holds her defender away from the primary action but you don’t need to throw double teams her way. She ain’t moving like Stef Curry just yet though I hope she can mimic him a little as the season progresses.

2) Neither Haley nor Cam are 3-level scorers but what they do, they do exceptionally well and at an elite level. If Cam (who still struggles to make free throws) wants to hoist up outside shots 15 feet and out, as an opposing coach, I’d consider that is a “win.” If Haley wants to hoist them up outside of 18 feet, that is a win. I’ll stop here.

Haley, Cam, Ashten, Hannah and Nivar. Nivar and Hannah will each have to improve their perimeter D but no one is scoring on the inside.

Off the bench: Kiki, Elena, Fran, Brooke, Jzaniya

The rest: Benergy!!

Spacing on offense would be my biggest priority so I’m going to surround Cam and Haley with the best shooters who are quick and can play at least a little defense (the latter part of this statement is why Brooke is not starting in my fantasy lineup)

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - jonnyss - 11-08-2022

(11-08-2022, 01:28 PM)OCcardinal Wrote: SDSU had four top 25 votes in the pre-season Coach's Poll (1 less vote than USC got and 2 more than Gonzaga got). So I'm hopeful that it was our team's exceptional talent that made us look so dominating at times (and not their lack of talent). Anyway, there's a lot of discussion about defense/offense and our guards in the game. Here's what the Analytics say:

DRtg: points allowed by a player per 100 possessions
EMMA-NNOPU,A 121.6 (13 min)
PAPADAKI,S 121.6 (5 min)
GREEN,L 121.6 (3 min)
JUMP,H 112.4 (21 min)
JONES,H 96.3 (23 min)
HARRIEL,J 91.8 (13 min)
LEPOLO,T 84.8 (21 min)
BOSGANA,E 57.1 (15 min)
NIVAR,I 47.1 (13 min)

So if defense is your priority these stats support Emma-Nnopu as a starter. But it's also her second negative net points game in a row (though she wasn't alone):

can you help me understand this rating? i would think that, for a defender, the lowest points allowed per 100 possessions should be the best. agnes has the highest and you are saying that supports her starting. i must be missing something. thanks.

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - M T - 11-08-2022

Huh? “Points allowed”. Aren’t lower numbers better, so Emma-Nnopu is the least valuable?

The second set of numbers needs explanation. For instance, why does it say Jump produced 2 points and gave up 7.3? I am having a problem conceiving of any objective measure coming up with those numbers.

(11-08-2022, 01:28 PM)OCcardinal Wrote: Here's what the Analytics say:

DRtg: points allowed by a player per 100 possessions
EMMA-NNOPU,A 121.6 (13 min)
PAPADAKI,S 121.6 (5 min)
GREEN,L 121.6 (3 min)
JUMP,H 112.4 (21 min)
JONES,H 96.3 (23 min)
HARRIEL,J 91.8 (13 min)
LEPOLO,T 84.8 (21 min)
BOSGANA,E 57.1 (15 min)
NIVAR,I 47.1 (13 min)

So if defense is your priority these stats support Emma-Nnopu as a starter. But it's also her second negative net points game in a row (though she wasn't alone):

Player..Pts Prod..Pts Allw..Net Pts..Fouls Drawn
JUMP, HANNAH 2..7.3..-5.3..1
EMMA-NNOPU, AGN 0..4.9..-4.9..3
PAPADAKI, STAVI 0..1.9..-1.9..2
GREEN, LAUREN 0..1.1..-1.1..0
HARRIEL, JZANIY 5.1..3.7..1.4..3
JONES, HALEY 9.8..6.9..3..6.2
LEPOLO, TALANA 10..5.5..4.5..3
BOSGANA, ELENA 7.5..2.7..4.8..4
NIVAR, INDYA 7.5..1.9..

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - Deejaatee - 11-08-2022

As I read the various posts and think about my ideal lineup, I would go with the following:

5. Kiki - Ashten
4. Cam - Brooke
3. Haley - Elena
2. Hannah - Emma
1. Talana - Indya

I like Indya and think she is great coming in as an offensive spark, but she is almost too fast on offense. We need someone who can control their own progress, and therefore the team. And I think based on the small sample set that Talana is the better handler and passer. Not flashier, just steadier.

I also think deciding where Fran plays once she is back will be interesting. Is she the next version of the Sr. Statesman big like. Alissa J from last year. Or does she work her way back in to the mix between 4&5.

And then there is Lauren B. She will find a place somewhere, most likely moving into territory held by Ashten.

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - martyup - 11-08-2022

Her first name is not Emma. It's Agnes.
Her first name is not Emma. It's Agnes.
Her first name is not Emma. It's Agnes.
Her first name is not Emma. It's Agnes.

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - chimera - 11-08-2022

(11-08-2022, 01:50 PM)jonnyss Wrote:
(11-08-2022, 01:28 PM)OCcardinal Wrote: SDSU had four top 25 votes in the pre-season Coach's Poll (1 less vote than USC got and 2 more than Gonzaga got). So I'm hopeful that it was our team's exceptional talent that made us look so dominating at times (and not their lack of talent). Anyway, there's a lot of discussion about defense/offense and our guards in the game. Here's what the Analytics say:

DRtg: points allowed by a player per 100 possessions
EMMA-NNOPU,A 121.6 (13 min)
PAPADAKI,S 121.6 (5 min)
GREEN,L 121.6 (3 min)
JUMP,H 112.4 (21 min)
JONES,H 96.3 (23 min)
HARRIEL,J 91.8 (13 min)
LEPOLO,T 84.8 (21 min)
BOSGANA,E 57.1 (15 min)
NIVAR,I 47.1 (13 min)

So if defense is your priority these stats support Emma-Nnopu as a starter. But it's also her second negative net points game in a row (though she wasn't alone):

can you help me understand this rating? i would think that, for a defender, the lowest points allowed per 100 possessions should be the best. agnes has the highest and you are saying that supports her starting. i must be missing something. thanks.

Same question for me as well. Also, that stat can't mean too much given the next two after Emma-Nnopu are Papadaki and Green, who did not play much and played very late in the game when seemed like SDSU was scoring more, not less. It would surprise me that Nivar was rated a poor defender. Sure did not look that way.

RE: WBB: Stanford 86 -- San Diego State 48 - Deejaatee - 11-08-2022

(11-08-2022, 03:07 PM)martyup Wrote: Her first name is not Emma. It's Agnes.
Her first name is not Emma. It's Agnes.
Her first name is not Emma. It's Agnes.
Her first name is not Emma. It's Agnes.

You are right. And I know this. I stand corrected. Where I wrote Emma, imagine it saying Agnes. Thanks,