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RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - 82lsju - 11-19-2023

here's what the "sold out" crowd looked like...

[Image: 402537514_10160685112251943_741305577248...e=655EA97D]

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - Bampa - 11-19-2023

(11-18-2023, 10:31 PM)thatboy Wrote:  Obviously today was disappointing, but it seems premature to be drawing conclusions about TT. He has a good track record. He came into a tough situation. The number of wins this season is exactly what was expected at the beginning of the seasons, if I recall correctly. I don't understand how people can be giving up so quickly. For some perspective, the last time we got a new coach after a major decline in football, Harbaugh didn't have a winning record until his third year.

 +1

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - gailtate - 11-19-2023

Re TT,  he's proving that chicken salad can't be made from feathers, beaks and feet. (The portal eviscerated this program to an extent that can't be overstated.) He's recruited well (so far). This game was a big setback, however, especially in penalties. Which troubles me the most. In his first couple of years, Harbaugh went 3-9 and 4-8. Let's see how things play out through 2024. But you can't do squat without real studs. Right now, they're in short supply.

BTW, kal hasn't won three straight BGs in Palo Alto since 1951.

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - Austroturf - 11-19-2023

(11-19-2023, 09:08 AM)gailtate Wrote:  Re TT,  he's proving that chicken salad can't be made from feathers, beaks and feet. (The portal eviscerated this program to an extent that can't be overstated.) He's recruited well (so far). This game was a big setback, however, especially in penalties. Which troubles me the most. In his first couple of years, Harbaugh went 3-9 and 4-8. Let's see how things play out through 2024. But you can't do squat without real studs. Right now, they're in short supply.

BTW, kal hasn't won three straight BGs in Palo Alto since 1951.

Just for the record, Harbaugh went 4-8 (2007) and 5-7 (2008).  Not a sizable difference, but slightly better.  That said, this year's team could easily have been 4-8 with a bit of luck.  That loss to Sac State was unnecessary, and a more accurate Karty might have gotten us a win against Arizona before they transitioned to Fifita and became a totally different team.  Of course, the win against Colorado was also the result of an epic Buff meltdown.  Anyway, 4-8 was definitely possible (technically, it still is possible, but I am not delusional about our chances against the Domers).

Cctop - cctop - 11-19-2023

82lsju dateline='[url=tel:1700408453' Wrote:  1700408453[/url]']
here's what the "sold out" crowd looked like...

Taking into account that our stadium always looks a bit empty because of people watching from the concourse, and the drizzle drove more people into the concourse while others stayed home:

I’d estimate about 30,000 actual attendance at the game.

Not bad, but definitely some Theranos-ing of the numbers going on to call it a sell-out.

RE: Cctop - CompSci87 - 11-19-2023

(11-19-2023, 10:59 AM)cctop Wrote:  
82lsju dateline='[url=tel:1700408453' Wrote:  1700408453[/url]']
here's what the "sold out" crowd looked like...

Taking into account that our stadium always looks a bit empty because of people watching from the concourse, and the drizzle drove more people into the concourse while others stayed home:

I’d estimate about 30,000 actual attendance at the game.

Not bad, but definitely some Theranos-ing of the numbers going on to call it a sell-out.

As always the numbers are tickets sold. No-shows like me, who didn't feel like watching us lose to Cal in the rain, still count in the numbers.

RE: Cctop - chrisk - 11-19-2023

(11-19-2023, 11:26 AM)CompSci87 Wrote:  
(11-19-2023, 10:59 AM)cctop Wrote:  
82lsju dateline='[url=tel:1700408453' Wrote:  1700408453[/url]']
here's what the "sold out" crowd looked like...

Taking into account that our stadium always looks a bit empty because of people watching from the concourse, and the drizzle drove more people into the concourse while others stayed home:

I’d estimate about 30,000 actual attendance at the game.

Not bad, but definitely some Theranos-ing of the numbers going on to call it a sell-out.

As always the numbers are tickets sold. No-shows like me, who didn't feel like watching us lose to Cal in the rain, still count in the numbers.

Those seats are sold mostly to season-ticket holders, who held on them rather than sell to Cal fans. A lot of seats in our section were occupied by Cal fans. Seats on StubHub were selling for more than $100, so it wasn’t exactly a fire sale. I was surprised by the size of the student section. Also, how many tickets did Stanford Medicine “buy” as part of their sponsorship of the game?

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - lex24 - 11-19-2023

gailtate dateline='[url=tel:1700410120' Wrote:  1700410120[/url]']
Re TT,  he's proving that chicken salad can't be made from feathers, beaks and feet. (The portal eviscerated this program to an extent that can't be overstated.) He's recruited well (so far). This game was a big setback, however, especially in penalties. Which troubles me the most. In his first couple of years, Harbaugh went 3-9 and 4-8. Let's see how things play out through 2024. But you can't do squat without real studs. Right now, they're in short supply.

BTW, kal hasn't won three straight BGs in Palo Alto since 1951.

The portal. You watch these games you see underclassmen think good he’s gonna be back (at least for some of them) but in the end, will he?

It’s a humongous difference from what happened when Harbaugh turned  things around. Making it a whole lot tougher. 


I hate it.

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - yvonne - 11-19-2023

One thing you can always count on at the CardBoard: "Get rid of the coach!"

I've seen my share of coaching changes and here are my thoughts:
So, I think it's a bit early to judge Taylor one way or the other. However, the extreme number of penalties is not a good sign.

All that being said, Stanford faces — and will continue to face — challenges like never before. NIL reduces and maybe even negates the 40-year commitment. Why would a player worry about a contact network down the road when he can get paid now? The portal means that no matter whom you recruit, there's a chance he'll be gone in two years. Add to that the fact that home games are across the country and only two traditional rivalries remain. That compounds the difficulty of finding and keeping good players. These factors together mean a coach might not have the players to put in his system and turn the team around. All these factors make attracting a good coach even more difficult.

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - Vandelay - 11-19-2023

My eyesight ain't so good anymore.  At first glance I was thinking "oh, wow.  That's a lot of Stanford fans wearing red!"  Then I put on my glasses and realized those were empty seats.

(11-19-2023, 08:40 AM)82lsju Wrote:  here's what the "sold out" crowd looked like...


RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - Giants - 11-19-2023

lex24 dateline='[url=tel:1700423968' Wrote:  1700423968[/url]']
gailtate dateline='[url=tel:1700410120' Wrote:  1700410120[/url]']
Re TT,  he's proving that chicken salad can't be made from feathers, beaks and feet. (The portal eviscerated this program to an extent that can't be overstated.) He's recruited well (so far). This game was a big setback, however, especially in penalties. Which troubles me the most. In his first couple of years, Harbaugh went 3-9 and 4-8. Let's see how things play out through 2024. But you can't do squat without real studs. Right now, they're in short supply.

BTW, kal hasn't won three straight BGs in Palo Alto since 1951.

The portal. You watch these games you see underclassmen think good he’s gonna be back (at least for some of them) but in the end, will he?

It’s a humongous difference from what happened when Harbaugh turned  things around. Making it a whole lot tougher. 


I hate it.

I was watching Louisville/Miami yesterday.  During the game, the announcers commented on three players from Stanford/Cal who had transferred to Louisville.

Cal - Plummer graduated from from Purdue, was a grad transfer to Cal and later a grad transfer to Louisville, Lopez, a grad transfer.

Stanford - Herron, a grad transfer. 

Personally, I have no problem with unfettered transfers.  For too long, all the power was in the hands of the coaches, now the players have a say.  Over time, I suspect the entire transfer process will settle into a routine that will have us wondering what all the anxiety was about…..

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - TonyLima - 11-19-2023

G
(11-18-2023, 10:31 PM)thatboy Wrote:  Obviously today was disappointing, but it seems premature to be drawing conclusions about TT. He has a good track record. He came into a tough situation. The number of wins this season is exactly what was expected at the beginning of the seasons, if I recall correctly. I don't understand how people can be giving up so quickly. For some perspective, the last time we got a new coach after a major decline in football, Harbaugh didn't have a winning record until his third year.

+100

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - cardcrimson - 11-20-2023

(11-19-2023, 09:08 AM)gailtate Wrote:  Re TT,  he's proving that chicken salad can't be made from feathers, beaks and feet. (The portal eviscerated this program to an extent that can't be overstated.) He's recruited well (so far). This game was a big setback, however, especially in penalties. Which troubles me the most. In his first couple of years, Harbaugh went 3-9 and 4-8. Let's see how things play out through 2024. But you can't do squat without real studs. Right now, they're in short supply.

BTW, kal hasn't won three straight BGs in Palo Alto since 1951.

Feathers? TT didn't even have that. This team was plucked even before he took over. . . .

Wasn't the over/under for the season 2.5 at the outset?

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - SkiBum80 - 11-20-2023

It’s not necessarily only a 2 opinion take on Coach TT and staff. That you’ll either support and accolade him through any failures, or that you’re bringing tar & feathers.
I’m of the opinion that he was a good hire and that he worked some occasional magic this season and that I’m hopeful for him & the team next season
I’m also if the opinion that he dropped the ball in the most visible & arguably most important game of this season
The excuses that we just don’t have the players rings a little hollow
It’s the same players that sparked a courageous come back over Colorado
Are we saying Cal is oh so much better & in a different league than Colorado?
It’s the same players that went toe to toe w Washington one of top 4(?) in country?
I realize no coach can bring the team to top readiness every game
But this was the game to bring it, and it wasn’t brought

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - Goose - 11-20-2023

(11-20-2023, 07:48 AM)SkiBum80 Wrote:  I realize no coach can bring the team to top readiness every game
But this was the game to bring it, and it wasn’t brought
IMO no coach can create  "readiness" (however that is defined) on command. Is readiness jumping around and starting a fight in the tunnel before the game starts? Is it being so "up" you commit personal fouls? Or is it playing as hard as you can as well as you can as long as you can? IMO the first two, although the players "look ready" means the players are out of control. For sure the coaches don't want that. The last one is the "readiness" target. A lot of that is psychological and depends on the players themselves. This has been a difficult season for them. They are undoubtedly mentally tired and are fully aware they have limitations, both personally and collectively. You can only get so much out of them as a coach. IMO all you can ask is to get their "best", and I think we got that.

Cal isn't very good, but they are better than we are. Despite the fact some see improvement in our run defense, Ott had 36 carries for 166 yards. He averaged 4.6 yards per carry. Cal could have run right at us all night if they wanted to and still won handily. Even given that, the team didn't quit. They still played with effort. It wasn't like Utah in 2021 where the DL was immediately pushed back 5 yards at every snap. I think that is all you can ask. Yes, our offense can't run. They haven't been able to do so all year. To my eyes E.J. Smith was trying harder for YAC than I have seen all year. He didn't get many, but he was trying. It wasn't lack of effort that lost us the game IMO.

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - needle - 11-20-2023

My personal dictum is that you cannot judge a coach by a single season. But facts are facts. Stanford hired a head coach whose identity in football has been that of play designer and play caller, and in 2023–especially in November—the Stanford offense is among the very worst in the country and historically bad compared to past Stanford seasons.

For the season, Stanford is No. 119 out of 133 in points per play, a metric that gets a boost when you have a world-class kicker like Karty.

Stanford has scored four touchdowns in November. This is historically low for Stanford, and this has occurred against opposition—Kal and WSU—that have middling defenses.

The solution for most teams would simply be to fire the offensive coordinator, but obviously in Stanford’s case that would mean TT demoting himself. I wish that would happen, but it is very unlikely.

So, that is the concern. Subjectively, I think that Stanford has been blessed with having a relatively healthy QB and top receiver in November, and overall the offense has been hurt most by the loss of Yurosek. I am most open to the argument that having Yurosek out hurt the offense deeply but in ways that were at first obscured by the emergence of Ayomanor.
Still, at this point I can only look at this offense with dismay. There is one game left. Stanford scoring even one TD against Notre Dame would surprise me at this point. It is just that bad, believe it or not.

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - lex24 - 11-20-2023

needle dateline='[url=tel:1700496878' Wrote:  1700496878[/url]']
My personal dictum is that you cannot judge a coach by a single season. But facts are facts. Stanford hired a head coach whose identity in football has been that of play designer and play caller, and in 2023–especially in November—the Stanford offense is among the very worst in the country and historically bad compared to past Stanford seasons.

For the season, Stanford is No. 119 out of 133 in points per play, a metric that gets a boost when you have a world-class kicker like Karty.

Stanford has scored four touchdowns in November. This is historically low for Stanford, and this has occurred against opposition—Kal and WSU—that have middling defenses.

The solution for most teams would simply be to fire the offensive coordinator, but obviously in Stanford’s case that would mean TT demoting himself. I wish that would happen, but it is very unlikely.

So, that is the concern. Subjectively, I think that Stanford has been blessed with having a relatively healthy QB and top receiver in November, and overall the offense has been hurt most by the loss of Yurosek. I am most open to the argument that having Yurosek out hurt the offense deeply but in ways that were at first obscured by the emergence of Ayomanor.
Still, at this point I can only look at this offense with dismay. There is one game left. Stanford scoring even one TD against Notre Dame would surprise me at this point. It is just that bad, believe it or not.

I don’t care how well you design plays. Or for that matter how great a play caller that you are. If you have an offensive line that can’t block, you’re not gonna succeed. Is that simplistic? Sure. It’s also true.

It’s not scheme. It’s not calls. It’s a lack of physical ability, athleticism and talent at the key position group on the field. Focus all you want on skill position players. If you can’t block, forget it. Daniels was running for his life on damn near every pass. Add 4 first half holding penalties. All of which were easy calls cause a lineman got smoked and just reached out and grabbed. They couldn’t run at all. Got stuffed. Constantly. And Cal does not have a good defense.

What do you expect an offense to be able to achieve under those circumstances? And this was not anything different from what we’ve seen all year. Solidify your offensive line. Once you do that, if they still stink on offense, then yeah, you can blame the scheme and/or the play caller.
SkiBum80 dateline='[url=tel:1700491719' Wrote:  1700491719[/url]']
It’s not necessarily only a 2 opinion take on Coach TT and staff. That you’ll either support and accolade him through any failures, or that you’re bringing tar & feathers.
I’m of the opinion that he was a good hire and that he worked some occasional magic this season and that I’m hopeful for him & the team next season
I’m also if the opinion that he dropped the ball in the most visible & arguably most important game of this season
The excuses that we just don’t have the players rings a little hollow
It’s the same players that sparked a courageous come back over Colorado
Are we saying Cal is oh so much better & in a different league than Colorado?
It’s the same players that went toe to toe w Washington one of top 4(?) in country?
I realize no coach can bring the team to top readiness every game
But this was the game to bring it, and it wasn’t brought

I’m sorry but Stanford “just does not have the players”.  The effort they gave all year was admirable. But they are horrifically undermanned. Their offensive line is as bad as I’ve seen at Stanford.  Overmatched week in week  out.  RB?  Who stands out.  They have a couple nice WR’s.  And I give Daniels a lot of credit. He survived the season running for his life and looked pretty darn good at times. Hats off to him. He got the hell beat out of him. is he a top flight quarterback? Probably not. But pretty hard to tell under the circumstances he had to play. 

Defensively? Not physical. Slow. They gave up more yards passing than any team in the country. Not because of “scheme”. Because they simply don’t have the horses.

It’s always easy to stick it on the couch. But no one wins without talent.

Taylor has his work cut out for him. At least as tough a job as Harbaugh had. Unfortunately, the portal makes it that much tougher. Let’s hope they don’t lose Ayomanor, for example.

Taylor’s will havevtomrecruit like mad. Keep your fingers crossed. Because they need a massive talent infusion.

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - needle - 11-20-2023

There’s no question the O-line is subpar when it comes to run blocking. The stats show the team is bad at pass blocking, but not historically bad. We saw a historically bad performance last year, yet those guys all transferred and ended up starting at really good programs. Their problem wasn’t so much a lack of talent. It can be hard to evaluate an o-line’s talent level, but I do not believe it is as bad as some ppl here seem to think, at least with respect to pass blocking.

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - Goose - 11-20-2023

(11-20-2023, 09:18 AM)lex24 Wrote:  I don’t care how well you design plays. Or for that matter how great a play caller that you are. If you have an offensive line that can’t block, you’re not gonna succeed. Is that simplistic? Sure. It’s also true.

It’s not scheme. It’s not calls. It’s a lack of physical  ability, athleticism and talent at the key position group on the field. Focus all you want on skill position players. If you can’t block, forget it. Daniels was running for his life on damn near every pass. Add 4 first half holding penalties. All of which were easy calls cause a lineman got smoked and just reached out and grabbed. They couldn’t run at all. Got stuffed.  Constantly.  And Cal does not have a good defense. 

What do you expect an offense to be able to achieve under those circumstances? And this was not anything different from what we’ve seen all year. Solidify your offensive line. Once you do that, if they  still stink on offense, then yeah, you can blame the scheme and/or the play caller.
+1000. If you can't block, you will not have a good offense. End of story.
Quote:
I’m sorry but Stanford “just does not have the players”.  The effort they gave all year was admirable. But they are horrifically undermanned. Their offensive line is as bad as I’ve seen at Stanford.  Overmatched week in week  out.  RB?  Who stands out.  They have a couple nice WR’s.  And I give Daniels a lot of credit. He survived the season running for his life and looked pretty darn good at times. Hats off to him. He got the hell beat out of him. is he a top flight quarterback? Probably not. But pretty hard to tell under the circumstances he had to play.
Totally agree, except IMO Daniels has real accuracy and touch problems on short passes. There are several important examples where he threw the ball into the ground or over the head of the intended recipient. These often occurred when he was not under pressure. When he is under pressure, he adds throwing the ball behind/too far ahead of the intended receiver and therefore into coverage. He seems much better on the longer throws although (probably due to necessity) he throws lots of 50/50 balls (K.J. Costello II). Agree it is hard to evaluate how he might play if not constantly fearing protection failure, but not being able to reliably hit a swing pass isn't going to work going forward.
Quote:Defensively? Not physical. Slow. They gave up more yards passing than any team in the country. Not because of “scheme”.  Because they simply don’t have the horses.

It’s always easy to stick it on the couch. But no one wins without talent.

Taylor has his work cut out for him. At least as tough a  job as Harbaugh had. Unfortunately, the portal makes it that much tougher. Let’s  hope they don’t lose Ayomanor, for example.

Taylor’s will havevtomrecruit like mad. Keep your fingers crossed. Because they need a massive talent infusion.
True! Only if and when we "have the horses" can we fall back to criticizing how the coach uses them :-). Lets hope we have that opportunity.

RE: FB -- Big Game Thread - needle - 11-20-2023

I feel like you guys are taking something that has a kernel of truth and extrapolating way too far.

The defense against Kal started four players rated as four-star prospects coming out of HS: Sinclair, Tafiti, Aybar and Frausto-Ramos.

Not great, but also not too bad, if you ask me.

The offense against Kal started six players rated as four-star prospects coming out of HS: Pale, Rogers, McLaughlin, Smith, Roush and Bachmeier.

Pretty good, if you ask me. 

Here's a link to an objective analysis that puts TT in the middle of the pack when it comes to inheriting talent as a first-year coach.

https://twitter.com/CFB_Data/status/1726637480433324269/photo/1