WBB: Postseason tournament - Printable Version

WBB: Postseason tournament - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - fullmetal - 03-20-2025

(03-20-2025, 10:55 PM)UltimateCard Wrote: Experience does matter. But this team also didn’t seem to have clutch players who would step up in crunch time.

Or...players who had the green light in crunch time. Again, a team comprised of individuals focused on playing blamelessly rather than playing with an acceptable level of risk to win...that's a team that will lose.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - UltimateCard - 03-20-2025

(03-20-2025, 10:21 PM)petersalas Wrote: I really don’t want Kate to become the type of coach to complain all game long, but if you look at the ones that do, they seem win more games. This was the worst officiated game
I’ve been to and it’s almost as if the refs had to make calls to keep Portland ok.

(03-20-2025, 10:08 PM)M T Wrote: Stanford got Chucked tonight.

Chuck Gonzalez, Saif Esho, Lorena Ahumada

The refs were terrible. I literally jumped out of my seat on the charge that was overturned. During a timeout, one ref gave the game ball to a kid sucking a lollipop to play with!
The Portland players were quite physical - our trainer had to wipe blood off three different Stanford players in successive timeouts in the latter part of the game.

(03-20-2025, 09:29 PM)old spanish trail Wrote:
(03-20-2025, 09:04 PM)mbdude Wrote: I sure hope we see a change of offense next year
Shearer, the portland guard, can't be guarded by Heal but paye hasn't changed that

Totally agree with this and at least 4 times Port cleared out the paint and sent Shearer in there where she was guarded (not) by Heal for a two foot jumper or layup.

Poor Tess was left out to dry. There was a breakdown in communications - on at least two of those possessions, the coaches were screaming and yelling down the court to reposition the players. When it happens more than once, and at such a critical point in the game (and IIRC, coming out of timeouts), that’s on the coaches.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - liveoak - 03-21-2025

A few comments about the game:

This was a game that we could and should have won - no matter about the inconsistent refereeing. We lost this game ourselves
Our offense did not play well in the second half and I have rarely seen a Stanford team look so robotic. It was as if they couldn't figure out what to do
Portland started the game in player to player (sorry no men in uniform here) and were getting shredded. When they went to zone, it slowed us down. In the second half, it looked like the top three defensive players along the 3-point line were very aggressive and pushed our offense further away from the line. This changed our player spacing and caused the offense to be cautious.
The Portland press was very effective is wasting much of our time on offense and creating a few turnovers. We had eight more turnovers than them
I think Kate was outcoached - she was unable to come up with a scheme to get the offense running properly in the second half.
IMO, our defense played hard after they adjusted to stop Portland's 3-point game
Tess Heal clearly had trouble defending Portland's #5. Some people are critical of the coaching staff for letting this go on. I don't know the other defensive choices, but if the opposing team runs screens to force Tess to cover #5 - that's going to happen - that's not the coaches fault.
Brooke didn't have a good game, but she was in foul trouble and on the bench for large parts of the game (25 of 40 minutes in regular time). She missed most of the third quarter and it showed.

All in all, not the best year. I'm sorry that the seniors lost their last game at home and I hope we will see a resurgence next year

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - 81alum - 03-21-2025

The presser:

https://gostanford.com/news/2025/03/20/stanford-womens-basketball-wbit-first-round-portland-postgame-press-conference-32025

Nothing particularly new here, although if anyone mistakenly thought it was a lack of effort or motivation, watching Bosgana will disabuse them.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - Jskass - 03-21-2025

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/44303007/women-march-madness-2025-ucla-bruins-lauren-betts-ncaa-tournament-women-basketball-star

there's a lot there. What could have been -- very complicated but also aspects saying the fit wasn't right (comment by Belibi about post type of play) -- but the assistant coach comment? So happy that Lauren made the right moves for herself/mental health even though at Stanford's loss.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - petersalas - 03-21-2025

Michele replied to my post saying the announcers on tv said the last call on Nunu was not correct and the basket should have counted. Portland moved around a lot and was very aggressive defensively, that they were moving into Stanford on everything. I bet all the offensive fouls were incorrectly called.

But this doesn’t define the second half, but does take Nunu out the game. I wondered why we didn’t see Harriel or Umeh at all. It was just a terrible second half and a disappointing season.

(03-20-2025, 10:20 PM)81alum Wrote: I believe this game was the least well attended game this year. They closed off the upper level completely and the bottom level was sparse. It was very quiet much of the time. It hardly seemed like a home advantage.

EDIT: Attendance was 1106. Absolutely horrific. I don't remember a game that bad since I began watching Stanford WBB.

Agara's charging foul at the end, which erased a basket and disqualified her, really was the turning point. I don't know if the call was correct or not, but for the second year in a row we end our season with our star offensive player fouling out with offensive fouls.

Our offense was very strong in the second quarter, but something changed in the second half. I can't quite figure out what it was. We scored more points in the 2nd quarter than in the entire second half put together. In the second half we seemed to have real problems penetrating, even though Portland was closely guarding the line. I don't know why.

Interesting stat: Portland started 4 grad students and a senior. We started 2 seniors and 3 sophomores. Furthermore, most of the Portland players had started for several years--they were mostly the same starters we played last year and the year before. Only 1 of our players had started any games before this year. I'm absolutely convinced that experience really, really matters. Not the only thing that matters, of course.

Ogden got a start, but she had a very weak game offensively. MAS had no points at a time we needed them, with the other bigs in foul trouble. Demetre continued her hot/cold issues and was 0/4 from three point range. This particular team always seemed to lose when Demetre was cold, and always seemed to win when she was hot. At least Agara looked like her old self.

I was disappointed that Harriel did not get a single minute in her last game at Maples.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - cctop - 03-21-2025

(03-21-2025, 05:40 AM)Jskass Wrote: https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/44303007/women-march-madness-2025-ucla-bruins-lauren-betts-ncaa-tournament-women-basketball-star

there's a lot there. What could have been -- very complicated but also aspects saying the fit wasn't right (comment by Belibi about post type of play) -- but the assistant coach comment? So happy that Lauren made the right moves for herself/mental health even though at Stanford's loss.

Thanks for the link. I almost skipped over it but I'm glad I didn't.

Everyone should read this story. It gives a great insight into Betts' POV and her struggles. I'm happy for her.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - Jskass - 03-21-2025

makes me feel even more comfortable cheering for them in Spokane next week (and hoping they get there)!

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - StanFanFam13 - 03-21-2025

(03-21-2025, 05:40 AM)Jskass Wrote: https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/44303007/women-march-madness-2025-ucla-bruins-lauren-betts-ncaa-tournament-women-basketball-star

there's a lot there. What could have been -- very complicated but also aspects saying the fit wasn't right (comment by Belibi about post type of play) -- but the assistant coach comment? So happy that Lauren made the right moves for herself/mental health even though at Stanford's loss.

Thanks for sharing. Like others, I am genuinely happy that Betts took the courageous step of asking for help when it came to her mental health—and I'm so glad she had the community and support structures that ensured she'd receive it. Before she is a player, she is a person. I want good things for her.

And I appreciate slightly expanded window into some of the events we've been speculating about for the past few years. Much of this confirms my assumptions (that the games she missed last season for UCLA were related to mental health, that she was not a natural fit for the system Stanford favored her freshman year, that here too she struggled with her mental health, and that at least some in the Stanford locker room—Jones in particular—actively supported the decision to transfer). Other pieces were new, most notably an unnamed member of the Stanford coaching staff referring to Betts as "big girl," even after allegedly being told she didn't like it. Also worth noting that reading online comments about her added to Betts' distress. While the internet is always going to be the internet, it's a good reminder to me to be mindful of my own posts. Here's what I hope is a fair (though perhaps not generous) take:

I'm pretty frustrated by the sentiment, as exemplified by Haley Jones' comment, that transferring was what Betts did to "choose herself." To me, the lesson—especially in light of some continued struggles at UCLA—is to ask for the help you need! At worst, this points to the broader risk of the transfer portal as a bandaid. I wonder what it would have looked like for Betts to open up to Tara and Kate the way she did to Cori Close and give them the chance to support her. There's a reasonable conversation to be had about how well Stanford overall prioritizes athlete mental health, but Mikayla Brewer's experience suggests to me that the women's basketball program specifically would have been supportive. It would be a shame if future players looked at her trajectory and either made unfair assumptions about Stanford or took it as a sign that all they need to change their fortunes is a change of scenery.

Perhaps a secondary lesson: to find the right place for you, make sure you are choosing for the right reasons. This article makes it sound as though Betts picked Stanford in part to "stick it to the haters," as it were. At bottom, if UCLA is the right place for Betts, so be it. Like I said, I wish her well as a person. And I'm not rooting against her as a player, but I can't say I'm cheering for her either.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - jonnyss - 03-21-2025

(03-21-2025, 01:43 PM)StanFanFam13 Wrote:
(03-21-2025, 05:40 AM)Jskass Wrote: https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/44303007/women-march-madness-2025-ucla-bruins-lauren-betts-ncaa-tournament-women-basketball-star

there's a lot there. What could have been -- very complicated but also aspects saying the fit wasn't right (comment by Belibi about post type of play) -- but the assistant coach comment? So happy that Lauren made the right moves for herself/mental health even though at Stanford's loss.
I wonder what it would have looked like for Betts to open up to Tara and Kate the way she did to Cori Close and give them the chance to support her. There's a reasonable conversation to be had about how well Stanford overall prioritizes athlete mental health, but Mikayla Brewer's experience suggests to me that the women's basketball program specifically would have been supportive.

thanks for posting. when i read mikaela brewer's story, i see her writing "my teammates did this (came to my support) for me." did she write somewhere that the staff was kind and sympathetic?

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - TheFarm07 - 03-21-2025

Based purely on anecdotal evidence, it feels like the wbb staff have not come off the greatest in recent years. If I recall correctly, going back to DiJonai's transfer farewell posting, didn't she thank her teammates, but not mention the staff?

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - fullmetal - 03-21-2025

The WBB social media accounts often do not include DiJonai in WNBA mentions :( This greatly pains me.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - old spanish trail - 03-21-2025

(03-21-2025, 09:39 AM)cctop Wrote:
(03-21-2025, 05:40 AM)Jskass Wrote: https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/44303007/women-march-madness-2025-ucla-bruins-lauren-betts-ncaa-tournament-women-basketball-star

there's a lot there. What could have been -- very complicated but also aspects saying the fit wasn't right (comment by Belibi about post type of play) -- but the assistant coach comment? So happy that Lauren made the right moves for herself/mental health even though at Stanford's loss.

Thanks for the link. I almost skipped over it but I'm glad I didn't.

Everyone should read this story. It gives a great insight into Betts' POV and her struggles. I'm happy for her.

Yes, thanks, and have to repeat I'm not biggly surprised. I love Tara, and believe Kate will do a terrific job, but Cory Close is indeed more "motherly" and was a better fit at that time in Betts' life. I don't think the "big girl" coach is still with us. And, as someone else mentioned, I will try to remember to be more sensitive to the fact that players might read comments made by rubes like us.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - PVTree - 03-21-2025

It's a shame what she's gone through and am glad that she's in a better place for herself.

However, I'm still not rooting for UCLA to go far.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - 81alum - 03-22-2025

(03-21-2025, 04:58 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: .

Yes, thanks, and have to repeat I'm not biggly surprised. I love Tara, and believe Kate will do a terrific job, but Cory Close is indeed more "motherly" and was a better fit at that time in Betts' life. I don't think the "big girl" coach is still with us. And, as someone else mentioned, I will try to remember to be more sensitive to the fact that players might read comments made by rubes like us.

Coaching styles can be quite different, and different players mature emotionally at different paces, meaning that "fit" is indeed important. I think of Tara like Bill Walsh--coaches who treated their players as mature adults, almost professionally--in a day before they were actually professionals. Cori Close does indeed seem motherly and would be a better fit for a more vulnerable player. Both styles of coaching can be disastrous if taken to the extreme, and both can work if the fit is right.

I have a hunch that the Cori Close style will not work so well in the era of paid college athletes. Being motherly with your employees is going to be a difficult combination to pull off.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - JohnR34231 - 03-22-2025

(03-21-2025, 03:40 PM)TheFarm07 Wrote: Based purely on anecdotal evidence, it feels like the wbb staff have not come off the greatest in recent years. If I recall correctly, going back to DiJonai's transfer farewell posting, didn't she thank her teammates, but not mention the staff?

Yeah, and from what I have read, it doesn't sound like Haley Jones was terribly happy with her Stanford experience either, despite all the success the team had with her there.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - chimera - 03-22-2025

(03-22-2025, 04:33 AM)81alum Wrote:
(03-21-2025, 04:58 PM)old spanish trail Wrote: .

Yes, thanks, and have to repeat I'm not biggly surprised. I love Tara, and believe Kate will do a terrific job, but Cory Close is indeed more "motherly" and was a better fit at that time in Betts' life. I don't think the "big girl" coach is still with us. And, as someone else mentioned, I will try to remember to be more sensitive to the fact that players might read comments made by rubes like us.
Coaching styles can be quite different, and different players mature emotionally at different paces, meaning that "fit" is indeed important. I think of Tara like Bill Walsh--coaches who treated their players as mature adults, almost professionally--in a day before they were actually professionals. Cori Close does indeed seem motherly and would be a better fit for a more vulnerable player. Both styles of coaching can be disastrous if taken to the extreme, and both can work if the fit is right.

I have a hunch that the Cori Close style will not work so well in the era of paid college athletes. Being motherly with your employees is going to be a difficult combination to pull off.

The current state of college sports with NIL and the portal always in the back of mind, cannot be good for young athletes with mental health issues. There is already plenty of pressure playing a sport. Add in pressure when someone pays you hundreds of thousands of dollars and you are also using your social media to sell yourself, and you have heaps of pressure on them. Wait until they become employees with big paychecks. Employees have to perform a job or be fired. I cannot imagine athletes as employees who are not subject to the same rules as any other employee - perform or get replaced. More pressure there.

I feel for Betts and what she went through at Stanford and at UCLA. But she is also a highly paid athlete now. Can we still treat them as young people who need guidance and sometimes a little coddling and also as the pro athletes they are? Which predominates in the minds of fans? Are you a kid playing a sport? Aw, be kind, treat them like they are kids. Are they adult pro athletes who need to perform or there will be consequences? You are overpaid, you are not as good as we want, we need to replace you. Right now it is sorta both, and that doesn't really work.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - TheFarm07 - 03-22-2025

(03-21-2025, 04:28 PM)fullmetal Wrote: The WBB social media accounts often do not include DiJonai in WNBA mentions :( This greatly pains me.

She's been so good in the W as well. Maybe not a superstar, but a great defender and key contributor. I'm glad that she's doing so well on the pro level.

RE: WBB: Postseason tournament - bl82 - 03-22-2025

(03-22-2025, 10:11 AM)TheFarm07 Wrote:
(03-21-2025, 04:28 PM)fullmetal Wrote: The WBB social media accounts often do not include DiJonai in WNBA mentions :( This greatly pains me.

She's been so good in the W as well. Maybe not a superstar, but a great defender and key contributor. I'm glad that she's doing so well on the pro level.

She’s also just the type of player we needed this year, with her defensive intensity, extreme competitiveness, athleticism, etc.

76lsjumb - 76lsjumb - 03-22-2025

(03-20-2025, 09:32 PM)triangle2 Wrote:
(03-20-2025, 09:18 PM)CompSci87 Wrote: The refs were horrible, but so was our offense. We should have been able to score enough to overcome the bad calls.

I had this flippant but sadly accurate thought go through my head. "We weren't good enough to make the NCAA tournament. Neither was Chuck."

Actually not that accurate. Chuck and his buddy (not sure about the woman ref) from our game reffed Kal’s loss this afternoon… and they were pretty much just as bad as Thursday night. Indeed, there was an OB call in the second half that was so blatantly wrong (followed a few seconds later by another that appeared almost as bad) that Charmin Smith got a warning for her protest. The first missed call was a prime example of why the Official Review being limited to the last two minutes, when a replay in the auditorium makes it absolutely clear that there was a missed OB call earlier in the game but nothing can be done to fix it, is problematic. I certainly don’t want refs going to the monitor all game long, but maybe coaches could be given 2 challenges to use anytime, with a wrong challenge costing a timeout.