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RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 04-18-2024
They've got some interesting decisions to make. The core is old, and outside of Curry, not in great shape. Both Wiggins and Klay were rumored to have come into the season in not-ready-for-the-NBA physical condition. Draymond's personality has not improved as his physical play has declined. The team was always sloppy, but athletic enough to overcome it years ago. Not today.
I like Moody and TJD. In particular, I like TJD's post-play-in-game responses to reporter questions, when he talked about needing to improve his defense and other areas. At 245 pounds, he has muscle, and is a good-to-great rim protector. Classy:
TJD already focused on how he can improve for Warriors next season - Yahoo Sports
On the other hand, you have Brandin Podziemski, a player that I really want to like, coming from my alma mater. But his overall attitude is...not great. He thinks he's a better player than he is, and he has a low ceiling. Nice find as a 19th pick -- and as a short guard of limited athletic ability, it's astounding to me that he led the team in total rebounds and was 2nd in rpg -- he has made the most of his gifts. He was supposed to be a shooter, but his eFG% (effective field goal percentage) was 11th on the team and he was 13th in free throws, 12th in ppg per 36 minutes. He dribbles into trouble A LOT.
He needs to get stronger, and more athletic if possible. He's only 21, it'd be interesting to see how well he would do if followed Curry's off-season regimen. But instead of improvement, when asked what he needs to improve upon in the off-season, his very first comments in this post-game "Well, naturally my role's going to increase..."
Podziemski expects Warriors role to increase next season - Yahoo Sports
RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 04-18-2024
It hurts to say it but I think Klay will be more valuable to other teams next year than he will be with the Warriors.
After surgery (and with added weight) he's slow and doesn't move well laterally. He often can't keep up with his defensive assignment. On some nights he can still fill the basket but it's not every night. If he's not shooting well he's a net liability. As one announcer said recently, "He needs to embrace the old Reggie Miller role and become a shooter off the bench that sometimes is inserted into the starting five."
That may come easier within a different team and his championship pedigree may also be more valuable to a team that hasn't climbed the mountain top. Maybe it's KLAY and not the Warrior's that needs to consider a sentimental discount. If he wants top dollar it will probably come elsewhere.
RE: NBA Discussion - oldalum - 04-18-2024
(04-18-2024, 01:34 PM)Leftcoast Wrote: If he's not shooting well he's a net liability.I see what you did there! :)
RE: NBA Discussion - Sam Leopold - 04-18-2024
While I don't really have a favorite NBA team, I was still hoping to see the Warriors put up more of a fight in the play-in, if only to worthily honor the memory of Dejan Milojević. He -- and Nataša -- deserved better.
RE: NBA Discussion - gocard14 - 04-19-2024
Sad truth is this team just isn't talented enough to be a realistic contender.
Sure if things had broken their way with Wiggins and Klay being less awful the first few months, less Draymond drama, etc , maybe we win 5 more games and get a sixth seed and Steph isn't quite as gassed in the playoffs, but to what end? This was still a first or second round exit team as their ceiling. Quick exercise: Go through the teams in order in the standings and find the first team that has a worse number 2 option then the Warriors. In my view you have to drop all the way to the Nets in the East, and Jazz in the West, so at least 22 teams have a better 2nd option then the Ws.
If you want to be even a fringe contender without a real #2, you need an MVP caliber #1 + great depth (see Jokic in 2022 for what an MVP with no depth gets you, namely a first round exit). We actually have pretty solid depth, but Steph is no longer a consistent top 5 player at this stage in his career.
I could see the offseason playing out in 3 main ways.
1. We get lucky and land a big fish.
We go big game hunting and actually find someone who can move the needle. Maybe Clippers get knocked out early and we can get Paul George. Maybe Lakers get swept and Lebron decides he and steph should team up rather than both be on mediocre teams. Maybe Donovan Mitchell wants to play with steph (indications are he is new york bound). Giannis is the dream, but just can't see it happening. Even if he wants out, other teams can offer a lot more then we can.
In this case we almost certainly trade some combination of Kuminga + picks + some of the youth movement, but at least have a shot to be in contention. Depending on salaries, it may require moving Wiggins and using CP3s non-guarenteed contract to line things up. Personally, I am intrigued by Kuminga but that's about it. I would happily trade him for any true star that fits our team (i.e. not Trae Young)
2. We whiff on the big fish and tinker around the edges.
This is sadly the most likely scenario. Maybe we make a run at a second tier star like Mikhail Bridges or Dejountay Murray, but probably not enough to really put us in contention. More likely we resign Klay, CP3 leaves, we bring in a few low priced free agents, and ride it out with the core while staying under the luxury tax to give some more future flexibility. This team is sadly going nowhere unless Kuminga becomes a star, Wiggins wakes up and decides he loves basketball, and the rookies take a big step forwards.
3. The band breaks up.
In this scenario, Klay signs elsewhere and that opens up the floodgates. We miss out on signing any real difference maker, and decide to instead tear down and rebuild from scratch around Kuminga and the rookies. We dump Draymond and Wiggins salaries (i believe we could move them, but won't get back much in return), and either let Steph ride it out as the tank commander or (with his blessing) trade him to a contender. If there was no emotion involved and the goal is to get back to title contention (assuming we miss out on the big fish), then trading Steph for a haul is the right move. In practice, Steph is the franchise (and keeps butts in high priced seats), so you let him decide.
My obvious preference is scenario 1, but think its unlikely. Stars usually want to join the team that is on the cusp of contention that they will push over the edge, and we are just too far away.
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 04-20-2024
I’m
(04-19-2024, 09:45 PM)gocard14 Wrote: Sad truth is this team just isn't talented enough to be a realistic contender.
Sure if things had broken their way with Wiggins and Klay being less awful the first few months, less Draymond drama, etc , maybe we win 5 more games and get a sixth seed and Steph isn't quite as gassed in the playoffs, but to what end? This was still a first or second round exit team as their ceiling. Quick exercise: Go through the teams in order in the standings and find the first team that has a worse number 2 option then the Warriors. In my view you have to drop all the way to the Nets in the East, and Jazz in the West, so at least 22 teams have a better 2nd option then the Ws.
If you want to be even a fringe contender without a real #2, you need an MVP caliber #1 + great depth (see Jokic in 2022 for what an MVP with no depth gets you, namely a first round exit). We actually have pretty solid depth, but Steph is no longer a consistent top 5 player at this stage in his career.
I could see the offseason playing out in 3 main ways.
1. We get lucky and land a big fish.
We go big game hunting and actually find someone who can move the needle. Maybe Clippers get knocked out early and we can get Paul George. Maybe Lakers get swept and Lebron decides he and steph should team up rather than both be on mediocre teams. Maybe Donovan Mitchell wants to play with steph (indications are he is new york bound). Giannis is the dream, but just can't see it happening. Even if he wants out, other teams can offer a lot more then we can.
In this case we almost certainly trade some combination of Kuminga + picks + some of the youth movement, but at least have a shot to be in contention. Depending on salaries, it may require moving Wiggins and using CP3s non-guarenteed contract to line things up. Personally, I am intrigued by Kuminga but that's about it. I would happily trade him for any true star that fits our team (i.e. not Trae Young)
2. We whiff on the big fish and tinker around the edges.
This is sadly the most likely scenario. Maybe we make a run at a second tier star like Mikhail Bridges or Dejountay Murray, but probably not enough to really put us in contention. More likely we resign Klay, CP3 leaves, we bring in a few low priced free agents, and ride it out with the core while staying under the luxury tax to give some more future flexibility. This team is sadly going nowhere unless Kuminga becomes a star, Wiggins wakes up and decides he loves basketball, and the rookies take a big step forwards.
3. The band breaks up.
In this scenario, Klay signs elsewhere and that opens up the floodgates. We miss out on signing any real difference maker, and decide to instead tear down and rebuild from scratch around Kuminga and the rookies. We dump Draymond and Wiggins salaries (i believe we could move them, but won't get back much in return), and either let Steph ride it out as the tank commander or (with his blessing) trade him to a contender. If there was no emotion involved and the goal is to get back to title contention (assuming we miss out on the big fish), then trading Steph for a haul is the right move. In practice, Steph is the franchise (and keeps butts in high priced seats), so you let him decide.
My obvious preference is scenario 1, but think its unlikely. Stars usually want to join the team that is on the cusp of contention that they will push over the edge, and we are just too far away.
2 is the worst option, as you suggest. Just pushes the inevitable down the road for another year. 3 is impossible. Fans would be coming out with pitchforks.
Agree 1 is unlikely.
They should let Klay go. He’s a 20 minute a game bench player. Catch and shoot option off the bench. Age and especially injuries have taken away his defense. He once was a strong defender. He now is a defensive liability. He never was great off the dribble. But now he really can’t beat defenders. He’s 10-60 in their last 4 elimination games. Not because he “chokes”. He’s had too many big games in important games to suggest that. Defense tightens in the playoffs. Especially in elimination games. Less room to get his shot off.
Klay has been a great Warrior. But it’s time.
Dunleavy has his work cut out.
RE: NBA Discussion - gocard14 - 04-20-2024
(04-20-2024, 09:26 AM)lex24 Wrote: I’m(04-19-2024, 09:45 PM)gocard14 Wrote: Sad truth is this team just isn't talented enough to be a realistic contender.
Sure if things had broken their way with Wiggins and Klay being less awful the first few months, less Draymond drama, etc , maybe we win 5 more games and get a sixth seed and Steph isn't quite as gassed in the playoffs, but to what end? This was still a first or second round exit team as their ceiling. Quick exercise: Go through the teams in order in the standings and find the first team that has a worse number 2 option then the Warriors. In my view you have to drop all the way to the Nets in the East, and Jazz in the West, so at least 22 teams have a better 2nd option then the Ws.
If you want to be even a fringe contender without a real #2, you need an MVP caliber #1 + great depth (see Jokic in 2022 for what an MVP with no depth gets you, namely a first round exit). We actually have pretty solid depth, but Steph is no longer a consistent top 5 player at this stage in his career.
I could see the offseason playing out in 3 main ways.
1. We get lucky and land a big fish.
We go big game hunting and actually find someone who can move the needle. Maybe Clippers get knocked out early and we can get Paul George. Maybe Lakers get swept and Lebron decides he and steph should team up rather than both be on mediocre teams. Maybe Donovan Mitchell wants to play with steph (indications are he is new york bound). Giannis is the dream, but just can't see it happening. Even if he wants out, other teams can offer a lot more then we can.
In this case we almost certainly trade some combination of Kuminga + picks + some of the youth movement, but at least have a shot to be in contention. Depending on salaries, it may require moving Wiggins and using CP3s non-guarenteed contract to line things up. Personally, I am intrigued by Kuminga but that's about it. I would happily trade him for any true star that fits our team (i.e. not Trae Young)
2. We whiff on the big fish and tinker around the edges.
This is sadly the most likely scenario. Maybe we make a run at a second tier star like Mikhail Bridges or Dejountay Murray, but probably not enough to really put us in contention. More likely we resign Klay, CP3 leaves, we bring in a few low priced free agents, and ride it out with the core while staying under the luxury tax to give some more future flexibility. This team is sadly going nowhere unless Kuminga becomes a star, Wiggins wakes up and decides he loves basketball, and the rookies take a big step forwards.
3. The band breaks up.
In this scenario, Klay signs elsewhere and that opens up the floodgates. We miss out on signing any real difference maker, and decide to instead tear down and rebuild from scratch around Kuminga and the rookies. We dump Draymond and Wiggins salaries (i believe we could move them, but won't get back much in return), and either let Steph ride it out as the tank commander or (with his blessing) trade him to a contender. If there was no emotion involved and the goal is to get back to title contention (assuming we miss out on the big fish), then trading Steph for a haul is the right move. In practice, Steph is the franchise (and keeps butts in high priced seats), so you let him decide.
My obvious preference is scenario 1, but think its unlikely. Stars usually want to join the team that is on the cusp of contention that they will push over the edge, and we are just too far away.
2 is the worst option, as you suggest. Just pushes the inevitable down the road for another year. 3 is impossible. Fans would be coming out with pitchforks.
Agree 1 is unlikely.
They should let Klay go. He’s a 20 minute a game bench player. Catch and shoot option off the bench. Age and especially injuries have taken away his defense. He once was a strong defender. He now is a defensive liability. He never was great off the dribble. But now he really can’t beat defenders. He’s 10-60 in their last 4 elimination games. Not because he “chokes”. He’s had too many big games in important games to suggest that. Defense tightens in the playoffs. Especially in elimination games. Less room to get his shot off.
Klay has been a great Warrior. But it’s time.
Dunleavy has his work cut out.
The problem with letting Klay go is with our cap situation we can't bring in someone to replace him. It saves Lacob money and may give us a bit more flexibility under the tax (full Mid level exception) but that's about it.
I agree with your assessment of Klay as a 15-20 min bench guy at this point, but losing him still makes us worse. I'm ok with bringing him back at a reasonable number so long as it doesn't clog up our cap after Steph's contract ends in 2 years. Maybe 2/30. I wouldn't break the bank to sign him if someone else offers him a much bigger deal.
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 04-20-2024
(04-20-2024, 10:20 AM)gocard14 Wrote:(04-20-2024, 09:26 AM)lex24 Wrote: I’m(04-19-2024, 09:45 PM)gocard14 Wrote: Sad truth is this team just isn't talented enough to be a realistic contender.
Sure if things had broken their way with Wiggins and Klay being less awful the first few months, less Draymond drama, etc , maybe we win 5 more games and get a sixth seed and Steph isn't quite as gassed in the playoffs, but to what end? This was still a first or second round exit team as their ceiling. Quick exercise: Go through the teams in order in the standings and find the first team that has a worse number 2 option then the Warriors. In my view you have to drop all the way to the Nets in the East, and Jazz in the West, so at least 22 teams have a better 2nd option then the Ws.
If you want to be even a fringe contender without a real #2, you need an MVP caliber #1 + great depth (see Jokic in 2022 for what an MVP with no depth gets you, namely a first round exit). We actually have pretty solid depth, but Steph is no longer a consistent top 5 player at this stage in his career.
I could see the offseason playing out in 3 main ways.
1. We get lucky and land a big fish.
We go big game hunting and actually find someone who can move the needle. Maybe Clippers get knocked out early and we can get Paul George. Maybe Lakers get swept and Lebron decides he and steph should team up rather than both be on mediocre teams. Maybe Donovan Mitchell wants to play with steph (indications are he is new york bound). Giannis is the dream, but just can't see it happening. Even if he wants out, other teams can offer a lot more then we can.
In this case we almost certainly trade some combination of Kuminga + picks + some of the youth movement, but at least have a shot to be in contention. Depending on salaries, it may require moving Wiggins and using CP3s non-guarenteed contract to line things up. Personally, I am intrigued by Kuminga but that's about it. I would happily trade him for any true star that fits our team (i.e. not Trae Young)
2. We whiff on the big fish and tinker around the edges.
This is sadly the most likely scenario. Maybe we make a run at a second tier star like Mikhail Bridges or Dejountay Murray, but probably not enough to really put us in contention. More likely we resign Klay, CP3 leaves, we bring in a few low priced free agents, and ride it out with the core while staying under the luxury tax to give some more future flexibility. This team is sadly going nowhere unless Kuminga becomes a star, Wiggins wakes up and decides he loves basketball, and the rookies take a big step forwards.
3. The band breaks up.
In this scenario, Klay signs elsewhere and that opens up the floodgates. We miss out on signing any real difference maker, and decide to instead tear down and rebuild from scratch around Kuminga and the rookies. We dump Draymond and Wiggins salaries (i believe we could move them, but won't get back much in return), and either let Steph ride it out as the tank commander or (with his blessing) trade him to a contender. If there was no emotion involved and the goal is to get back to title contention (assuming we miss out on the big fish), then trading Steph for a haul is the right move. In practice, Steph is the franchise (and keeps butts in high priced seats), so you let him decide.
My obvious preference is scenario 1, but think its unlikely. Stars usually want to join the team that is on the cusp of contention that they will push over the edge, and we are just too far away.
2 is the worst option, as you suggest. Just pushes the inevitable down the road for another year. 3 is impossible. Fans would be coming out with pitchforks.
Agree 1 is unlikely.
They should let Klay go. He’s a 20 minute a game bench player. Catch and shoot option off the bench. Age and especially injuries have taken away his defense. He once was a strong defender. He now is a defensive liability. He never was great off the dribble. But now he really can’t beat defenders. He’s 10-60 in their last 4 elimination games. Not because he “chokes”. He’s had too many big games in important games to suggest that. Defense tightens in the playoffs. Especially in elimination games. Less room to get his shot off.
Klay has been a great Warrior. But it’s time.
Dunleavy has his work cut out.
The problem with letting Klay go is with our cap situation we can't bring in someone to replace him. It saves Lacob money and may give us a bit more flexibility under the tax (full Mid level exception) but that's about it.
I agree with your assessment of Klay as a 15-20 min bench guy at this point, but losing him still makes us worse. I'm ok with bringing him back at a reasonable number so long as it doesn't clog up our cap after Steph's contract ends in 2 years. Maybe 2/30. I wouldn't break the bank to sign him if someone else offers him a much bigger deal.
I don’t purport to understand the NBA contract/cap/salary issues. It’s more complicated than the Rule Against Perpetuities.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 04-21-2024
I suspect the Warriors and Dunleavy will choose option 2. Agree with Lex, that's the least-satisfactory, most-likely-to-have-a-poor-result option. This isn't a team that is barely missing the top edge of the playoffs.
All of the Big Three and Wiggins and Looney have four characteristics in common:
1) They were on one or more championship teams.
2) They have reduced capabilities, either because of age, wear and tear or indifference (I'm looking at you, Wiggs).
3) They are ridiculously expensive.
4) They are all hallucinating into thinking that another championship is in the offing.
I don't see them blowing up the players listed above, much as they probably should. The corporate ticket purchasers are self-deceiving as much as the players, and if they want to sell out the Chase Center, they can only lose one of the aforementioned players.
I didn't include Chris Paul. I assume he's gone under any circumstances.
Here's an unpopular opinion: I think both Podz and Kuminga need to be traded. Podz has two really negative traits: a Rick Barry attitude with substantially less than Rick Barry's capabilities. The Big Three basically laugh at and about him now, but pretty soon he's going to cause some real friction on that team. He's at his most trade-able right this second, right now before the NBA draft. Podz was the #19 pick, he's generally thought of as a second-team all-rookie player, perhaps he can pull in a #5 - #10 draft pick.
Kuminga has some spectacular capabilities, but some real downside. He's an occasional defender, he gets lost too often, he stops playing hard, he's not instinctive in the offense. Also at his peak as a trade prospect. There will be GMs and coaches who will they all he needs is a little fine tuning. Nope.
Would love to trade Wiggins. He got the big contract, and promptly lost interest in playing.
I don't think they can trade Thompson. They wouldn't get any value for him. Thompson is a great shooter who can't do much else on offense and has limited defensive capabilities. Both Wiggins and Thompson came into the NBA season in less than ideal shape. And it ain't gettin' better, especially when Thompson will be completely relegated to the bench.
Keep Steph, keep Draymond unless someone's willing to give you something ridiculous for him. Get rid of Podz, Kuminga, Wiggins and Klay if he won't take 2 years, $23 mms. or something like that. Get whatever you can get for Chris Paul, replace him with Lester Quinones. Coach Kerr, you have to re-do your coaching...
RE: NBA Discussion - lex24 - 04-21-2024
(04-21-2024, 12:18 PM)Mick Wrote: I suspect the Warriors and Dunleavy will choose option 2. Agree with Lex, that's the least-satisfactory, most-likely-to-have-a-poor-result option. This isn't a team that is barely missing the top edge of the playoffs.
All of the Big Three and Wiggins and Looney have four characteristics in common:
1) They were on one or more championship teams.
2) They have reduced capabilities, either because of age, wear and tear or indifference (I'm looking at you, Wiggs).
3) They are ridiculously expensive.
4) They are all hallucinating into thinking that another championship is in the offing.
I don't see them blowing up the players listed above, much as they probably should. The corporate ticket purchasers are self-deceiving as much as the players, and if they want to sell out the Chase Center, they can only lose one of the aforementioned players.
I didn't include Chris Paul. I assume he's gone under any circumstances.
Here's an unpopular opinion: I think both Podz and Kuminga need to be traded. Podz has two really negative traits: a Rick Barry attitude with substantially less than Rick Barry's capabilities. The Big Three basically laugh at and about him now, but pretty soon he's going to cause some real friction on that team. He's at his most trade-able right this second, right now before the NBA draft. Podz was the #19 pick, he's generally thought of as a second-team all-rookie player, perhaps he can pull in a #5 - #10 draft pick.
Kuminga has some spectacular capabilities, but some real downside. He's an occasional defender, he gets lost too often, he stops playing hard, he's not instinctive in the offense. Also at his peak as a trade prospect. There will be GMs and coaches who will they all he needs is a little fine tuning. Nope.
Would love to trade Wiggins. He got the big contract, and promptly lost interest in playing.
I don't think they can trade Thompson. They wouldn't get any value for him. Thompson is a great shooter who can't do much else on offense and has limited defensive capabilities. Both Wiggins and Thompson came into the NBA season in less than ideal shape. And it ain't gettin' better, especially when Thompson will be completely relegated to the bench.
Keep Steph, keep Draymond unless someone's willing to give you something ridiculous for him. Get rid of Podz, Kuminga, Wiggins and Klay if he won't take 2 years, $23 mms. or something like that. Get whatever you can get for Chris Paul, replace him with Lester Quinones. Coach Kerr, you have to re-do your coaching...
Need you to explain the Podz/Barry. Been under impression that vets love him.
And if Wiggins, Paul, Kuminga, Thompson and Podz are all gone, a combo of Auerbach and Wooden couldn’t win. Unless they strike gold in FA or trades. Which is not likely.
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 04-22-2024
(04-21-2024, 06:13 PM)lex24 Wrote:(04-21-2024, 12:18 PM)Mick Wrote: I suspect the Warriors and Dunleavy will choose option 2. Agree with Lex, that's the least-satisfactory, most-likely-to-have-a-poor-result option. This isn't a team that is barely missing the top edge of the playoffs.
All of the Big Three and Wiggins and Looney have four characteristics in common:
1) They were on one or more championship teams.
2) They have reduced capabilities, either because of age, wear and tear or indifference (I'm looking at you, Wiggs).
3) They are ridiculously expensive.
4) They are all hallucinating into thinking that another championship is in the offing.
I don't see them blowing up the players listed above, much as they probably should. The corporate ticket purchasers are self-deceiving as much as the players, and if they want to sell out the Chase Center, they can only lose one of the aforementioned players.
I didn't include Chris Paul. I assume he's gone under any circumstances.
Here's an unpopular opinion: I think both Podz and Kuminga need to be traded. Podz has two really negative traits: a Rick Barry attitude with substantially less than Rick Barry's capabilities. The Big Three basically laugh at and about him now, but pretty soon he's going to cause some real friction on that team. He's at his most trade-able right this second, right now before the NBA draft. Podz was the #19 pick, he's generally thought of as a second-team all-rookie player, perhaps he can pull in a #5 - #10 draft pick.
Kuminga has some spectacular capabilities, but some real downside. He's an occasional defender, he gets lost too often, he stops playing hard, he's not instinctive in the offense. Also at his peak as a trade prospect. There will be GMs and coaches who will they all he needs is a little fine tuning. Nope.
Would love to trade Wiggins. He got the big contract, and promptly lost interest in playing.
I don't think they can trade Thompson. They wouldn't get any value for him. Thompson is a great shooter who can't do much else on offense and has limited defensive capabilities. Both Wiggins and Thompson came into the NBA season in less than ideal shape. And it ain't gettin' better, especially when Thompson will be completely relegated to the bench.
Keep Steph, keep Draymond unless someone's willing to give you something ridiculous for him. Get rid of Podz, Kuminga, Wiggins and Klay if he won't take 2 years, $23 mms. or something like that. Get whatever you can get for Chris Paul, replace him with Lester Quinones. Coach Kerr, you have to re-do your coaching...
Need you to explain the Podz/Barry. Been under impression that vets love him.
And if Wiggins, Paul, Kuminga, Thompson and Podz are all gone, a combo of Auerbach and Wooden couldn’t win. Unless they strike gold in FA or trades. Which is not likely.
In reverse order:
1) No matter what, that team isn't going to make the playoffs. They're just old. Secondly, they're not going to find value for all five of those people, they'll likely have to keep at least three of them. They will keep Podz. Chris Paul should be gone. I believe Klay will stay, the gap between what he's worth and what he thinks he's worth is larger than for any other player in the NBA.
That leaves Wiggins and Kuminga. If and only if they can get significant value...BTW, you left out one option, draft choices...then the W's should explore it. I'd rather move Wiggins than Kuminga. Kuminga, at least, has upside. Wiggins is doing the minimum he can. But I don't think they trade Kuminga unless they get a stratospheric return.
2) What the veterans like best about Podz is that he is a much smarter, much more complete player than the typical rookie, particularly the typical 20 year old rookie. And they like his "irrational confidence" was the term I think Curry used. And he's willing to do things that many, if not most NBA players will not do, like muscle in to get rebounds, take charges, and hit the floor getting the ball. Kuminga, Thompson, Wiggins...none of them are willing to do that. There's something to be said for that level of effort. It's the only way an undertalented player can make it in that legal, the basketball equivalent of Tyler Rogers...a submarine pitcher who can't break 85 mph on his pitches.
Kerr likes Podziemski's energy, fearlessness, hand/eye coordination, toughness, cockiness and competitiveness, all of which are great. Saric has mentioned it, Green has mentioned it, Chris Paul clearly likes having another tough short-ish guy around, and when he wants to, Podziemski can distribute the ball. At the same time, when Podziemski compares himself to Curry and Draymond, the vets clearly do a little eye-roll and verballyi pat him on the head. Podziemski has a lot going for him, including intangibles and the fact that he's a "glue" guy. What he doesn't have is athletic ability and talent elements. That's a dangerous mix if ego gets in the way.
All those things worked for Podziemski...this year. Unlike TJD (who listed the things he needed to work on, when asked by a reporter), the first words out of Podz's mouth were "Well, clearly my role will increase next year..." Like I said, a dangerous mix.
RE: NBA Discussion - TrumpCard - 04-22-2024
I think Curry, Wiggins, Kuminga, and Green can be starters on a playoff team, especially if AW and DG get attitude adjustments.
After that, it gets dicey. Payton, Podz, Thompson, Moody, Looney, TJD, and Saric all are passable backups, but nothing more than that.
So, in an ideal world, the Warriors would be able to trade CP plus some contracts and/or draft picks to get a starter quality wing.
I'm not expecting miracles, but I think the minimum is someone who can really defend.
I could see going with a smaller wing, like Isaac Ikoro, or a big wing who's sufficiently athletic to defend multiple positions, like Jonathan Isaac.
These two players would come with significant shortcomings/risks, but I tend to think a strong wing defender would put the Warriors over the top as far as getting into the playoffs.
RE: NBA Discussion - Leftcoast - 04-23-2024
I'll make the case for Podz.
First, Podziemski REBOUNDS. He was the second leading rebounder (after Draymond Green) on the team ... from a guard position. On a team full of non-rebounders due to size (Chris Paul, Steph) or simply lack of interest (looking at you Andrew Wiggins, Jonathan Kuminga) this kept him on the floor a lot of nights. A strong rebounding backcourt player is a must have on a small team and the only rebounding guard on the Warriors was Podziemski.
Secondly, all the things we don't like about Wiggins are found in Podz - He plays with passion, dives for balls, fights for rebounds, runs hard, and attacks with confidence (if not always success). When you watch him you know you are watching someone who loves the game and is making the most of his skills. He's the anti Wiggins.
What's not to love here on a team that's old and feeling its age? The Warriors needed a cheaper replacement for the spark plug that was Donte DiVencenzo in 2022-2023 and found it here.
(For a Stanford angle there used to be a player in the 80s known as the "human floorburn" for his propensity to dive hard after loose balls. Wasn't the greatest player on the team but he played with passion and energy. For the Warrions Podziemski has been a more skillful version of that player.)
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 04-23-2024
(04-23-2024, 11:10 AM)Leftcoast Wrote: I'll make the case for Podz.
First, Podziemski REBOUNDS. He was the second leading rebounder (after Draymond Green) on the team ... from a guard position. On a team full of non-rebounders due to size (Chris Paul, Steph) or simply lack of interest (looking at you Andrew Wiggins, Jonathan Kuminga) this kept him on the floor a lot of nights. A strong rebounding backcourt player is a must have on a small team and the only rebounding guard on the Warriors was Podziemski.
Secondly, all the things we don't like about Wiggins are found in Podz - He plays with passion, dives for balls, fights for rebounds, runs hard, and attacks with confidence (if not always success). He's the anti Wiggins.
What's not to like here on a team that's old and feeling its age? The Warriors needed a cheaper replacement for Donte DiVencenzo and found it here.
(For a Stanford angle there used to be a player in the 80s known as the "human floorburn" for his propensity to dive hard after loose balls. Wasn't the greatest player on the team but he played with passion and energy. For the Warrions Podziemski has been a more skillful version of that player.
Oh all right, let's keep him. I do agree with all of that, save for the team full of non-rebounders comment...the Warriors led the NBA in rebounds per game at 46.7. If you look at RPG based upon 36 minute averages, Podziemski is 7th on the team...meaning there's a lot of good rebounders, he's the great one, for his position at least. But Loon, TJD, Draymond, Saric and Gui all do better than Podz on an RPM basis, and Quinones, Wiggins, Moody, Kuminga, and Payton are right behind him (within two rebounds every 36 minutes).
RE: NBA Discussion - bl82 - 04-23-2024
While Podz is great on the boards, as a 21-year-old rookie he showed PG skills (3:1 A/TO ratio) and shooting guard skills (38.5 from three) and he also showed an ability to get to the basket (some excellent cuts and also with the dribble). The Dubs need passers who can shoot and also attack the basket at times. At 21 (20 until the end of Feb, making him only six weeks older than Maxime), at least see how he develops the next year or two.
RE: NBA Discussion - old spanish trail - 04-28-2024
I guess Anthony Edwards turned out better than James Wiseman.
TrumpCard - TrumpCard - 04-29-2024
The Warriors didn’t have a chance at Edwards since they picked second. Nevertheless, the Warriors could have selected LaMelo Ball. There’s been plenty of ink spilled on that decision. The Warriors also missed out on Halliburton and Maxey, but so did a bunch of other teams. I’m not sure that many teams would have taken Wiseman over LaMelo though…
RE: NBA Discussion - Mick - 04-29-2024
Wiseman was a tough choice. He finished 37th in VORP (Value Over Replacement Player).
Trayce Jackson-Davis and Brandin Podziemski finished 2nd and 4th in VORP this year after being the 57th and 19th selections. Podz had the highest rookie +/- by a mile (264 vs. Dereck Lively at 144) and TJD was 8th at +32. TJD would have been even higher if Kerr had played him those first two months, I suspect.
Dunleavy and the coaching staff did a great job with their two rookies. Hopefully his luck continues and the W's get one of the four lottery picks. They have a 3.4% chance, with a 0.7% chance for the top selection. The next 10 picks go in season record order, worst to best. If the W's don't get one of the top four selections, the pick reverts to Portland. The Warriors also have Milwaukee's 2nd round pick, #52 overall. Golden State's second round pick, #44 overall, belongs to Houston.
RE: TrumpCard - old spanish trail - 04-29-2024
(04-29-2024, 12:05 AM)TrumpCard Wrote: The Warriors didn’t have a chance at Edwards since they picked second. Nevertheless, the Warriors could have selected LaMelo Ball. There’s been plenty of ink spilled on that decision. The Warriors also missed out on Halliburton and Maxey, but so did a bunch of other teams. I’m not sure that many teams would have taken Wiseman over LaMelo though…
Right. I was just thinking of all the early conversation leading up to the draft. I think by decision day most thought Edwards was the best pick.
RE: NBA Discussion - gocard14 - 04-29-2024
Hard to know who other teams would have taken. Remember coming into the draft Lamelo had a broken jumper and was a non 3 point shooter. Him coming into his rookie year as an elite 3-point shooter was out of nowhere. He was basically the same prospect as Josh Giddey, who went 6th the next year (admittedly in a much stronger draft) and is looking like a solid player but highly limited due to his lack of shooting.
Ant is the real deal. Crazy to think his drive/desire were a major question during his pre-draft process. He has a bit of troll in him and poked fun at the process, which rubbed some the wrong way, but hard to question his will to win watching him play now. Also crazy to think the Warriors were that close to a pick that would have extended the dynasty.
As for this playoffs, I'm on team chaos. I want all the teams that have brobdingnagian questions to get swept or knocked out quickly so that they consider breaking things up to leave room for the Warriors. I already got one wish with the suns being swept. I hope to get another tonight with a quick Lakers exit. I'm also pulling for a rapid Pelicans, Clippers and Bucks exit.
My dream offseason is for Steph and Dray (and hopefully Klay) to team up with an old-head like Lebron or KD (again) and make a real run at showing the young up and comers who is boss. Maybe its my own middle age coming out in my fandom, but would love for a last hurrah for the late thirty somethings.
If I'm the Suns (who have no room to do anything this offseason except run it back or move KD or Booker), I would seriously consider a trade of KD for Kuminga, Wiggins, CP3 (partially guaranteed to match salary) and picks. You can also build a trade around Kuminga, Moody, GP2, and CP3 with picks.
The warriors clearly get better (though older and injury prone). Steph, Moody (or Wiggins), KD, Draymond, TJD is a great starting 5, with Klay and Podz off the bench isn't nothing. They would need to find a few reliable bench pieces to be a viable contender.
A lineup of CP3, Booker, Wiggins, Kuminga and Nurkic with Beale and Grayson Allen off the bench actually makes a lot of sense for the suns. Their main weakness was no wings and not having a point guard. This trade solves that, may actually make them better now, while also restocking their war chest with some picks for future moves.