Class of 2017 - Printable Version
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Re: Class of 2017 - kuz - 01-24-2017
(01-24-2017, 10:13 AM)socalstanfan1 link Wrote:[quote author=AthleticsDynasty link=topic=11701.msg187288#msg187288 date=1485271677]
Also shouldn't you be far more concerned about Safeties? Seeing as how for 2019 we only have 2 maybe 3 right now? And unlike LB we don't have guys lined up for the 18 and 19 classes?
The difference here is that it is relatively common for defensive backs to come in slotted into one position, either S or CB, and move to the other. So Paulson Adebo may come in as a CB, but given size and strength, and possible team need, he could easily end up as a S with excellent cover skills. I suppose we could say the same about DE and OLB in the Stanford system. CBs Treyjohn Butler and Frank Buncom were, at various points in the recruiting process, considered Safeties. I assume that though it might not be ideal, they could move back in a pinch.
I think it makes more sense to break down the defense into three categories: DB, DE/OLB, and DT. Defensive Tackles are the one group of players that might struggle moving to another position (though, even here, it isn't unusual to see an athletic DT evolve into big DE in the 3-4 defense. But true Nose Tackles have a more difficult time playing other positions). Given the number of DB we have admitted in the past few classes, I think we are in good shape there with athletes who can fill different roles. But I do think we need to make sure to add depth to the DE/OLB spot.
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I think Butler is currently playing safety. Devon Carrington actually played both CB and S for us in the same season.
I disagree with you about DE/OLB vs. NT. We've only had one successful move in recent years between DE and OLB: Blake Lueders. Kaumatule was shuffled back and forth after moving over from TE, but nothing really came of that. On the other hand, we've had a couple of players move between DE and NT, namely Shittu and Phillips. Of course, in both cases this has been due to the lack of other options at NT.
We've also had Vaughters successfully move from ILB to OLB. Noor Davis moved from OLB to ILB, and I would love to see Alfieri also move from OLB to ILB, though that is probably wishful thinking.
Re: Class of 2017 - BostonCard - 01-24-2017
And both those cases it was a natural DE moving to NT. I don't think we've ever had the reverse (a natural NT moving to DE). That may, however, be because we simply don't get that many nose tackles, and I don't recall a situation where we've had excess noses and a dearth of ends necessitating the move outside.
BC
Re: Great Article on Dalyn Wade-Perry - Bruce Wang - 01-24-2017
While we're pining for commits to come, here's a great article on DWP who has already committed.
https://stanford.rivals.com/news/in-his-coach-s-words-pope-john-xxiii-high-s-dalyn-wade-perry
Re: Class of 2017 - socalstanfan1 - 01-24-2017
(01-24-2017, 11:39 AM)kuz link Wrote:[quote author=socalstanfan1 link=topic=11701.msg187300#msg187300 date=1485278016]
[quote author=AthleticsDynasty link=topic=11701.msg187288#msg187288 date=1485271677]
Also shouldn't you be far more concerned about Safeties? Seeing as how for 2019 we only have 2 maybe 3 right now? And unlike LB we don't have guys lined up for the 18 and 19 classes?
The difference here is that it is relatively common for defensive backs to come in slotted into one position, either S or CB, and move to the other. So Paulson Adebo may come in as a CB, but given size and strength, and possible team need, he could easily end up as a S with excellent cover skills. I suppose we could say the same about DE and OLB in the Stanford system. CBs Treyjohn Butler and Frank Buncom were, at various points in the recruiting process, considered Safeties. I assume that though it might not be ideal, they could move back in a pinch.
I think it makes more sense to break down the defense into three categories: DB, DE/OLB, and DT. Defensive Tackles are the one group of players that might struggle moving to another position (though, even here, it isn't unusual to see an athletic DT evolve into big DE in the 3-4 defense. But true Nose Tackles have a more difficult time playing other positions). Given the number of DB we have admitted in the past few classes, I think we are in good shape there with athletes who can fill different roles. But I do think we need to make sure to add depth to the DE/OLB spot.
[/quote]
I think Butler is currently playing safety. Devon Carrington actually played both CB and S for us in the same season.
I disagree with you about DE/OLB vs. NT. We've only had one successful move in recent years between DE and OLB: Blake Lueders. Kaumatule was shuffled back and forth after moving over from TE, but nothing really came of that. On the other hand, we've had a couple of players move between DE and NT, namely Shittu and Phillips. Of course, in both cases this has been due to the lack of other options at NT.
We've also had Vaughters successfully move from ILB to OLB. Noor Davis moved from OLB to ILB, and I would love to see Alfieri also move from OLB to ILB, though that is probably wishful thinking.
[/quote]
Following up on BC, I'm thinking of true, fire-hydrant type NT (DWP) types who can clog the center of the line. Those linemen have, IMO, less positional flexibility than others. I also think we can also add Trent Murphy as a player who transitioned from HS DE to OLB, and Kevin Anderson and Mike Tyler were also listed by Rivals as as DEs. Sean Barton has made the more rare transition from DB to LB (if we follow the listings on Rivals, though perhaps the coaches always envisioned him at LB; Jarek Lancaster made a similar transition) Point well taken about the movement between OLB & ILB.Â
Maybe the bigger point is we need to draft the best athletes we can with great positional flexibility, particularly when Stanford's pool of talent is more limited than that of the Football Factories. So looking at the size and athleticism of a player may be as important as looking at whether the recruiting services have him listed at a particular position.
Re: Class of 2017 - kuz - 01-25-2017
Since 3-4 OLBs are pass rushers, the players we recruit at that position have often been (possibly undersized) 4-3 DEs in high school. This includes guys like Gabe Reid, Loa Kaufusi, Lane Veach, Mike Tyler, Kevin Anderson, Trent Murphy, Chase Thomas. All but the last two were recruited as 3-4 OLBs for Stanford; Murphy and Thomas were recruited as 4-3 DEs as we ran a 4-3 back then.
On the other hand, I can't think of any player who was a 3-4 DE in high school but an OLB at college. 3-4 DEs don't need to be particularly fast; in the NFL, it's not unusual for them to be well north of 300 pounds, but they are usually tall and/or have long arms. A guy like Henry Anderson is your prototypical 3-4 DE.
Barton was recruited as an ILB, though you're right that he played SS (and RB) in high school. That's pretty unusual, because most high school safeties don't have the frame to bulk up to linebacker (though it's not unheard of, by any means).
Re: Class of 2017 - Bruce Wang - 01-25-2017
It was thought to be between us and Georgia for Leonard Warner. I just noticed that all the "experts" switched their prediction from Georgia to Florida State.
Re: Class of 2017 - stanfan - 01-25-2017
Has Warner been admitted?
Re: Class of 2017 - washingtonismoney - 01-25-2017
FWIW, the Pac-12 Networks' Yogi Roth thinks the '16 OL class is better than the '12: https://twitter.com/YogiRoth/status/824035234765225984
Hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison. Presumably you can fruitfully compare Little + Sarell to Peat + Murphy. But the '12 class had more numbers. Even if you (hypothetically) think Dalman equals or betters Shuler, '12 still had highly-rated guys like Davidson and Fanaika. And Caspers turned out well.
Re: Class of 2017 - kuz - 01-25-2017
(01-25-2017, 09:53 AM)stanfan link Wrote:Has Warner been admitted?No news yet.
Re: Class of 2017 - AthleticsDynasty - 01-25-2017
(01-25-2017, 09:55 AM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:FWIW, the Pac-12 Networks' Yogi Roth thinks the '16 OL class is better than the '12: https://twitter.com/YogiRoth/status/824035234765225984
Hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison. Presumably you can fruitfully compare Little + Sarell to Peat + Murphy. But the '12 class had more numbers. Even if you (hypothetically) think Dalman equals or betters Shuler, '12 still had highly-rated guys like Davidson and Fanaika. And Caspers turned out well.
You mean 17 OL class right? Although the 16 OL is damn good in its own right and has quantity
Re: Class of 2017 - washingtonismoney - 01-25-2017
(01-25-2017, 10:56 AM)AthleticsDynasty link Wrote:You mean 17 OL class right? Although the 16 OL is damn good in its own right and has quantity
Yeah -- my bad.
Re: Class of 2017 - BostonCard - 01-25-2017
(01-25-2017, 09:55 AM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:FWIW, the Pac-12 Networks' Yogi Roth thinks the '16 OL class is better than the '12: https://twitter.com/YogiRoth/status/824035234765225984
Hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison. Presumably you can fruitfully compare Little + Sarell to Peat + Murphy. But the '12 class had more numbers. Even if you (hypothetically) think Dalman equals or betters Shuler, '12 still had highly-rated guys like Davidson and Fanaika. And Caspers turned out well.
You forgot this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyhsCki3neg
He's only the first (and so far only) Stanford player to win the Outland trophy, something that Peat, Murphy, DeCastro never accomplished.
While it is easy to argue that Foster + Sarell > Peat + Murphy, when you add Garnett, Caspers, and Shuler to the mix, it is hard to argue against the class of 2012.
BC
Re: Class of 2017 - CTcard - 01-25-2017
(01-25-2017, 10:56 AM)AthleticsDynasty link Wrote:[quote author=washingtonismoney link=topic=11701.msg187372#msg187372 date=1485363309]
FWIW, the Pac-12 Networks' Yogi Roth thinks the '16 OL class is better than the '12: https://twitter.com/YogiRoth/status/824035234765225984
Hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison. Presumably you can fruitfully compare Little + Sarell to Peat + Murphy. But the '12 class had more numbers. Even if you (hypothetically) think Dalman equals or betters Shuler, '12 still had highly-rated guys like Davidson and Fanaika. And Caspers turned out well.
You mean 17 OL class right? Although the 16 OL is damn good in its own right and has quantity
[/quote]
Perhaps relevant is that the 2016-17 two year cycle may has as much depth as the 2011-12 cycle.
[I suppose one might look at the following years as well, but we can't really examine the 2018 class yet.]
(ratings by 247)
2011-12 OL
Kyle Murphy, 2012, OT, five stars, 2nd OT, 11 overall
Andrus Peat, 2012, OT, five stars, 4th OT, 30 overall
Brendon Austin, 2011, OT, four stars, 7th OT, 187 overall
Nick Davidson, 2012, OT, three stars, 46th OT, 423 overall
Joshua Garnett, 2012, OG, four stars, 2nd OG, 38 overall
Graham Shuler, 2012, OG, four stars, 14th OG, 268 overall
Kevin Reihner, 2011, OG, three stars, 22nd OG, 472 overall
Johnny Caspers, 2012, OG, three stars, 60th OG, no overall
[Note, Fanaika was really 2014.]
2016-2017 OL
Foster Sarell, 2017, OT, five stars, 2nd OT, 5 overall
Walker Little, 2017, OT, five stars, 3rd OT, 10 overall
Clark Yarborogh, 2016, OT, four stars, 18th OT, 188 overall
Devery Hamiliton, 2016, OT, four stars, 24th OT, 248 overall
Henry Hattis, 2016, OT, three stars, 45th OT, 491 overall
Nate Herbig, 2016, OG, three stars, 45th OG, 934 overall
Matthew Gutwald, 2016, OG, three stars, 69th OG, 1261 overall
Dylan Powell, 2016, OG, three stars, 87th OG, no overall
Drew Dalman, 2017, Center, three stars, 7th OC, 645 overall
Hope I didn't miss anyone.
Re: Class of 2017 - BostonCard - 01-26-2017
Another walk-on...
https://stanford.rivals.com/news/st-john-bosco-tight-end-kyle-mccombs-to-walk-on-at-stanford
BC
Re: Class of 2017 - JJJ - 01-26-2017
(01-26-2017, 11:37 AM)Boston Card link Wrote:Another walk-on...Thanks for sharing. This is an awesome story.
https://stanford.rivals.com/news/st-john-bosco-tight-end-kyle-mccombs-to-walk-on-at-stanford
BC
Re: Class of 2017 - Papa John - 01-26-2017
So we're waiting to hear from ATH Connor Wedington (highly likely), SE Ryan Johnson (highly unlikely) and LB Leonard Warner (highly unlikely). Is that accurate?
Re: Class of 2017 - washingtonismoney - 01-26-2017
(01-26-2017, 03:30 PM)Papa John link Wrote:So we're waiting to hear from ATH Connor Wedington (highly likely), SE Ryan Johnson (highly unlikely) and LB Leonard Warner (highly unlikely). Is that accurate?
I wouldn't characterize Johnson as "highly unlikely." Seems like a pretty solid shot.
Re: Class of 2017 - donkey687 - 01-26-2017
(01-26-2017, 03:39 PM)washingtonismoney link Wrote:[quote author=Papa John link=topic=11701.msg187442#msg187442 date=1485469851]
So we're waiting to hear from ATH Connor Wedington (highly likely), SE Ryan Johnson (highly unlikely) and LB Leonard Warner (highly unlikely). Is that accurate?
I wouldn't characterize Johnson as "highly unlikely." Seems like a pretty solid shot.
[/quote]
I agree Johnson is probably 50/50. Wedington is 90%+. Warner is less than 50% because admissions status is unknown. My guess is that we land two out of those three. Mike Eubanks tweeted today that CardClass 2017 is not done so he is feeling very confident about landing at least 1. I am very surprised that none of the chrystal balls on 247 are picking us for Johnson. If you read what he says, we are in the running and you would think that some of these recruiting experts would know by now that 90%+ of recruits who are offered, apply and get accepted come to Stanford.
Re: Class of 2017 - Papa John - 01-26-2017
Yeah, I was going off of 247sports' crystal ball. In the past week, 6 predictions have come in for Ryan Johnson, all to Auburn. Also in the past week, 17 predictions have come in for Leonard Warner, all to FSU. There could be a bit of herd mentality there, but I would think that at least one of the predictors would step forward for Stanford if they thought there was a reasonable chance for either RJ or LW.
Re: Class of 2017 - OutsiderFan - 01-26-2017
I have always been in favor of guys going where they feel most comfortable, but if Ryan Johnson is admitted to Stanford and chooses Auburn, it just doesn't make a lot of sense, and I would argue it isn't a smart decision. This is based on many reasons I won't get into.Â
Haven't seen any word about Warner being admitted to Stanford, so that ship seems to have sailed.