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WBB: Stanford 82 -- Santa Clara 69 - Printable Version

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RE: WBB: Stanford 82 -- Santa Clara 69 - jonnyss - 12-02-2022

(12-02-2022, 02:15 PM)WBB fan Wrote:  Fascinating list, thanks for digging out all the stats. But I think you missed two key people -- Sonja Henning (freshman year 1987-88) and Nicole Powell (freshman year 2000-01). Both ultimately All Americans. I don't have their stats, though I suspect that both would compare favorably with the best people on your list. Henning took over the PG role from Azzi when she was a freshman and Azzi was a soph. After that, Azzi was mostly a shooting guard. Powell was not initially a PG, but Tara made her one when she didn't have a good alternative.

I'm with you re Lepolo. I think she's going to develop very well, and further, and it won't be long before we quit questioning her in the role.

thanks!

sonja henning freshman year 1987-88. started 32/32 games. 10.8 points per game. 85 assists/33 turnovers. .443 fg %, 0/1-point shots; .759 free throw %. 4.3 rebounds/game.

RE: WBB: Stanford 82 -- Santa Clara 69 - acerep - 12-02-2022

I've posted my report on the Santa Clara game as well as the three games in Hawaii. It's on the Fast Break Club site, www.stanfordfbc.org under Richter Reports.

RE: WBB: Stanford 82 -- Santa Clara 69 - WBB fan - 12-02-2022

(12-02-2022, 05:25 PM)jonnyss Wrote:  
(12-02-2022, 02:15 PM)WBB fan Wrote:  Fascinating list, thanks for digging out all the stats. But I think you missed two key people -- Sonja Henning (freshman year 1987-88) and Nicole Powell (freshman year 2000-01). Both ultimately All Americans. I don't have their stats, though I suspect that both would compare favorably with the best people on your list. Henning took over the PG role from Azzi when she was a freshman and Azzi was a soph. After that, Azzi was mostly a shooting guard. Powell was not initially a PG, but Tara made her one when she didn't have a good alternative.

I'm with you re Lepolo. I think she's going to develop very well, and further, and it won't be long before we quit questioning her in the role.

thanks!

sonja henning freshman year 1987-88. started 32/32 games. 10.8 points per game. 85 assists/33 turnovers. .443 fg %, 0/1-point shots; .759 free throw %. 4.3 rebounds/game.

I'd say that based on these stats, she's the best freshman PG on the list. Two years later, Stanford won the NATTY with her at the point. I've been watching the team since the 1989-90 season, and IMO, she's the best PG Stanford has ever had.

RE: WBB: Stanford 82 -- Santa Clara 69 - OCcardinal - 12-04-2022

(12-01-2022, 02:03 PM)81alum Wrote:  
(12-01-2022, 01:32 PM)OCcardinal Wrote:  However, despite her limited minutes Brink still leads the team in efficiency:

Stanford EFF Leaders Per Game
This Season (so far)
(1) Cameron Brink 15.9
(2) Haley Jones 15.4
(3) Kiki Iriafen 11.2

Brink is like a booster rocket whose fuel is quickly spent, but still gets you into orbit.  
I like your simile, and think it accurate.  And I agree that when she is on the floor Brink is almost always the best player out there.   I refuse to believe, however, that she can't be coached into playing more minutes--something she clearly wants also.

During Chiney's senior year she averaged 34 minutes per game.  I am greedy, and would love to see Brink do likewise.  Chiney also had fouling issues as a freshman, but gradually grew out of them over the course of her college career.  I hope we can see similar growth for Brink.
That's not quite what I was saying.  I certainly agree with you that Brink is "almost always the best player when she is on the floor." My contention is that she is so good that she is also almost always Stanford's MVP for each game (as seen in the Efficiency stat, which measures a player's cumulative contributions to each game). Last season there was a sportswriter who said she couldn't vote for Brink as Pac 12 player of the year because of her foul trouble.  But others recognized her contributions and the writers went ahead and voted her 2022 Pac 12 Player of the year. (Similarly, the Division I head coaches voted her to the 2022 WCBA All-America team.) It would be incredible if Cam turned into Chiney at some point. I'm just saying I'm not frustrated with her play currently. 19-24 minutes is what I expect (whether it's the refs limiting her minutes or Tara).  And with the overall talent we have that should be enough for us to win any game this season. If she ends up playing more than her average by the time we get to the tournament then great. But I will fully enjoy her contributions to the team either way.

RE: WBB: Stanford 82 -- Santa Clara 69 - 81alum - 12-04-2022

(12-04-2022, 10:46 AM)OCcardinal Wrote:  That's not quite what I was saying.  I certainly agree with you that Brink is "almost always the best player when she is on the floor." My contention is that she is so good that she is also almost always Stanford's MVP for each game (as seen in the Efficiency stat, which measures a player's cumulative contributions to each game)
You are probably right about that and her elite talent deserves praise for making our team as successful as we are, despite her limited time.  And of course our other talent benefits by her playing fewer minutes.

But I don't agree that 20 minutes of Brink will be enough to win almost any game.  30 minutes from Brink would have been enough to defeat South Carolina, for example, but 24 was not.  30-35 minutes consistently from Brink (a la Chiney) would be enough to coast to a national championship with this team.  20-25 minutes from Brink will result in close games against elite teams that could go either way--more like the South Carolina game.  Her talent is elite and as good as everyone else is, she is the most unique player out there and the one we can least afford to have sitting on the bench during key games.

RE: WBB: Stanford 82 -- Santa Clara 69 - WBB fan - 12-04-2022

There's a good discussion going on here about any number of players, but it's long since diverged from the nominal topic of this thread (Standord vs Santa Clara). How about moving on with this discussion to the 2022-23 WBB thread?

RE: WBB: Stanford 82 -- Santa Clara 69 - M T - 12-04-2022

(12-04-2022, 10:46 AM)OCcardinal Wrote:  the Efficiency stat, which measures a player's cumulative contributions to each game
I beg to differ.  At best, it combines a few aspects of their contributions into a single number.   It does not measure a player's failure to block out, or to defend, or alter shots, or occupy their best defender the entire game, or to defend their best offensive player all game, or to draw fouls, or so many other aspects of the game.   If an opponent team comes in shooting 60% on 2FGA and 40% on 3FGA and is run ragged and held to 35% and 20%, whose contribution to that is measured by this linear combination of other stats?

Despite the claim at Wikipedia, it's pretty hard to find EFF at the NBA.COM.  The link at Wikipedia to the NBA.COM's efficiency leaderboard sends you to archive.org because that old link doesn't exist any more.  It isn't in  Stats > Home. It isn't in the Stats > Players > Traditional Stats (or Advanced, Misc, Scoring, Usage, Opponent, Defense, or Estimate Advanced).   It isn't in their Stats 101 Glossary.  It isn't in the "Cume Stats".    As far as I could find, it was one column in one page at NBA.COM.

RE: WBB: Stanford 82 -- Santa Clara 69 - TonyLima - 12-04-2022

(12-02-2022, 05:25 PM)jonnyss Wrote:  
(12-02-2022, 02:15 PM)WBB fan Wrote:  Fascinating list, thanks for digging out all the stats. But I think you missed two key people -- Sonja Henning (freshman year 1987-88) and Nicole Powell (freshman year 2000-01). Both ultimately All Americans. I don't have their stats, though I suspect that both would compare favorably with the best people on your list. Henning took over the PG role from Azzi when she was a freshman and Azzi was a soph. After that, Azzi was mostly a shooting guard. Powell was not initially a PG, but Tara made her one when she didn't have a good alternative.

I'm with you re Lepolo. I think she's going to develop very well, and further, and it won't be long before we quit questioning her in the role.

thanks!

sonja henning freshman year 1987-88. started 32/32 games. 10.8 points per game. 85 assists/33 turnovers. .443 fg %, 0/1-point shots; .759 free throw %. 4.3 rebounds/game.

Thank you! But I gotta add that the WBB game has changed a lot since 1988. Many more terrific players and teams. Another reason to marvel at Tara’s success.