WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - Printable Version
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RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - WBB fan - 03-08-2024
All three other teams in the semis looked good, at least most of the time. And we were not the only team today that was challenged. Everyone was at some point, obviously OSU the most, in their double or game. I thought that UCLA in particular looked good, mostly in their guard play.
This was the first time I've seen Betts play in person since last year. I know she's been getting a lot good press, but tonight I wasn't hugely impressed. One thing she did very well was to pass the ball out when she didn't have a shot of her own. But she still puts the ball down for a dribble before shooting at times. Also not all that mobile. Got away with several no calls, seemed to me. Will be most interesting to see her and Cam/kiki play head to head if both teams make the final.
One thought re Betts. If she had stayed and gotten more playing time, would Kiki have developed so much? Or if Kiki did come on strong with Betts still around, would Betts not have gotten much more playing time than she did last year? Or does it come at the expense of Brooke? At any rate, her staying would have meant a quite different team, I think. And that's not saying anything about positive/negative team chemistry.
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - M T - 03-08-2024
(03-07-2024, 11:15 PM)81alum Wrote:Cam has shown she works hard to improve. I expect she is learning right now.(03-07-2024, 09:03 PM)BillBradley Wrote: In the post game interview with the Pac12 announcers, Cam talked about "honestly how disappointing it was to have to play through that much". Cal was definitely extra physical, oftentimes cheap. Easier said than done, but Cam has got to keep under control in games like this. She was upset a lot out there and it showed in both the fouls she picked up and her missed shots. Expect to see more of it - it's March.She also said that she was grateful no one was hurt. I think she meant no Stanford player was hurt. Because Onyiah was most definitely hurt.
Off the court, she needs to learn to acknowledge the trials and tribulations her opponents have to go through, whether it is sickness or injury. She also needs to learn that if/when she is asked about an honor, she should compliment those who might have gotten the award, and maybe acknowledge the difficulty the judges might have had. I hope she will learn that.
On the court, she seems to need to learn better to control her emotions. One foul seemed to be from her reacting to the harassment. Focus that energy on getting into a better situation early, not on taking down the opponent.
I like a lot about her, but she has some rough edges sometimes. I believe she will work them out.
In the post-game interview, Kiki seemed the most composed. She had a great offensive game,, but you will often see her standing in the middle watching her player put up unguarded shots. I will grant that perhaps that is what her coach wants (zone defense), but as a fan, it hurts me to see a defensive player not being on a shooter. Certainly it helps the rebounding totals if the opponent misses.
I think the team is doing a bit better against the swarm-of-bees defense but it still really affected us. Even when we didn't lose the ball and got a pass out to the perimeter, we rarely got a shot off.
I'm wondering about the short shots early in the game, esp. Cam. From every point on the court, and obvious on the FTs. Nervousness? I kinda hope so and that the nervousness won't show up later.
I think a win Friday should assure a #1 seed (even with a loss in the P12 finals). But it likely will be a tough game. I am not a fan of playing by different rules at the end of the season. It seems clear that the refs do that, but who authorizes it?
No one has yet mentioned the rather blatant flop by Agara at the end of the first half. (Tiffany Bird made the call in Stanford's favor.) Fans of Cal could reasonably argue that Cal lost the game in the last 32 seconds of the first half. Iriafen got Suarez in an arm lock but it was misinterpreted by a ref who called the foul on Suarez at Q2 0:32. Then 26 seconds later, Agara flopped resulting in a second foul on Suarez. Those two fouls surely impacted her play (9pts first half) and led to her fouling out.
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - 2006alum - 03-08-2024
Re: Cam missing more shots lately, I have a totally unsubstantiated theory: I wonder if the eye surgery she had after last season is wearing off? I've known others who have had similar issues, where initially after the surgery, they have great vision, but then the problems slowly creep back in.
The reason I'm asking is that it almost seems like Cam isn't seeing the precise position of the ball correctly - some of her TOs are where she's grabbing not *quite* where the ball is and it gets deflected, and her shots sometimes look like she's just slightly off about where the basket is. This would also explain why her FT % is slowing come back down to earth, as well as her outside shooting. And, anecdotally, I feel like I've seen her squinting more at the free throw line the way she used to last season and prior.
As for the rest of the team/game, I only saw the second half, where we played fabulously, but I thought we looked really good across all phases of the game - especially given how physically Cal was playing.
And yes, we do need our supporting cast to step up in most games, but tonight we got what we needed from the players who had the ball - Brink, Iriafen, Lepolo and Bosgana took 53 shots - the rest of the team took 10, and no other player attempted more than 2 shots. Particularly since many on this Board have all season been criticizing our guard supporting cast, I would think folks here would be happy that we seem to find and feed the hot hand from game to game. Precisely because we don't have reliable outside scoring from any one player, I'm glad we seem to be good at rotating until we find the hot hands (in this case, Bosgana and Lepolo), and then settling in with those players. It also makes it hard to scout for the opposing team when every game we seem to be featuring different players.
Conference semifinals should be two great games with teams that know each other really well. I agree that we should probably get a one seed if we make the finals, though some of this depends on what happens with Iowa, Ohio State, and Texas in their own tournaments. I tend to think either USC or UCLA will lock up a one seed if they win the tournament, so it's likely SCAR, Pac 12 winner, Big Ten winner, and ?
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - 81alum - 03-08-2024
(03-08-2024, 12:41 AM)M T Wrote: No one has yet mentioned the rather blatant flop by Agara at the end of the first half. (Tiffany Bird made the call in Stanford's favor.) Fans of Cal could reasonably argue that Cal lost the game in the last 32 seconds of the first half. Iriafen got Suarez in an arm lock but it was misinterpreted by a ref who called the foul on Suarez at Q2 0:32. Then 26 seconds later, Agara flopped resulting in a second foul on Suarez. Those two fouls surely impacted her play (9pts first half) and led to her fouling out.I saw that at the time and was amazed that she (we) got away with it. It seemed so clear that she threw her head back first. Question: what if a player throws their head back to initiate a deliberate flop but then the opposing player really does charge into them before the flop is completed? Not that that is necessarily what happened--just trying to understand what might be going through the mind of Tiffany Bird.
(03-08-2024, 12:41 AM)M T Wrote: In the post-game interview, Kiki seemed the most composed.You are right. Iriafen is one of the best of our players at doing these interviews. She is a very good communicator, but also has humility.
For that matter, what about the foul on Onyiah after Brink hit her in the nose with her head? I was sure that one was going to go on Brink and be her 4th. Was the foul called before the nose-smash, on Onyiah's bodying up on Brink? Otherwise that was adding insult to injury, literally.
(03-08-2024, 06:15 AM)2006alum Wrote: Re: Cam missing more shots lately, I have a totally unsubstantiated theory: I wonder if the eye surgery she had after last season is wearing off? I've known others who have had similar issues, where initially after the surgery, they have great vision, but then the problems slowly creep back in.Very interesting theory. The wear and tear of the season might be taking a toll too. As it has on Lepolo's knee. I've noticed with many players over the years that their three point shooting is better at the start of a season and worsens a little later in the season, and can't think of any other explanation.
Although...they may be able to practice their shot a lot more in the off season, too, while once they are in the middle of a season more time is devoted to film, defense, team play, etc.
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - BobK - 03-08-2024
https://www.stanfordfbc.org/
Last night results and summary
leftcoast - Leftcoast - 03-08-2024
Chalk is 8-0.
The quarterfinals will be the expected 1v4 and 2v3 match-ups. In fact, the favorite and higher seed has won EVERY game so far.
Let’s hope that record is at least 11-1 when the tournament concludes.
76lsjumb - 76lsjumb - 03-08-2024
(03-08-2024, 09:14 AM)Leftcoast Wrote: Chalk is 8-0.
The quarterfinals will be the expected 1v4 and 2v3 match-ups. In fact, the favorite and higher seed has won EVERY game so far.
Let’s hope that record is at least 11-1 when the tournament concludes.
I was a PoliSci major so I admit I may be missing something, but this math doesn’t add up for me…
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - amytmueller - 03-08-2024
Just watched the post game press conference. It was so refreshing to actually hear the reporter's questions, instead of guessing what they might have asked based on the answers! If anyone knows someone at Stanford who can make this happen next year, please pass this along to them.
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - WBB fan - 03-08-2024
(03-08-2024, 11:58 AM)amytmueller Wrote: Just watched the post game press conference. It was so refreshing to actually hear the reporter's questions, instead of guessing what they might have asked based on the answers! If anyone knows someone at Stanford who can make this happen next year, please pass this along to them.
Very frustrating not to hear the questions, but I found a solution. Put on the closed captions. They pick up the questions.
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - amytmueller - 03-08-2024
(03-08-2024, 12:33 PM)WBB fan Wrote:(03-08-2024, 11:58 AM)amytmueller Wrote: Just watched the post game press conference. It was so refreshing to actually hear the reporter's questions, instead of guessing what they might have asked based on the answers! If anyone knows someone at Stanford who can make this happen next year, please pass this along to them.
Very frustrating not to hear the questions, but I found a solution. Put on the closed captions. They pick up the questions.
Brilliant!
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - M T - 03-08-2024
(03-08-2024, 06:50 AM)81alum Wrote:I saw that foul as correctly called. (It was reviewed for an intentional foul by Brink, and none was called.)
For that matter, what about the foul on Onyiah after Brink hit her in the nose with her head? I was sure that one was going to go on Brink and be her 4th. Was the foul called before the nose-smash, on Onyiah's bodying up on Brink? Otherwise that was adding insult to injury, literally.
It appears that Onyiah grabbed Brink's left arm and pulled it. Brink (over?)reacted by her shoulders and head going back, resulting in the injury. Had the initial call been missed, I wonder if they would have (during live play) have called a foul on Brink. Perhaps so, even though there was no intent.
Speaking of fouls, Lepolo got called for a foul (and there was a similar one later), where she was traveling in a straight line and handed the ball off and stopped immediately. The defender chasing the person who got the ball runs into Lepolo. I understand how if Lepolo never had the ball, this could be called a moving screen. But Lepolo was in the same position she was when she handed the ball off. Had she not handed it off, this would be a blatant foul on the defender. Had she stepped sideways into the path of the player, this would be a foul on Lepolo. I don't understand what rule makes this a foul on Lepolo and not on the defender. (In the usual way of speaking of fouls, this can neither be a charging foul (she wasn't moving), a blocking foul (generally called on defenders). It certainly wasn't a blind block.) Anyone?
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - TonyLima - 03-08-2024
Interesting five seconds from Cal Stanford game
Interesting five seconds from Cal Stanford game
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - M T - 03-08-2024
(03-08-2024, 01:05 PM)TonyLima Wrote: Interesting five seconds from Cal Stanford gameThe second half must have been really disappointing to the Cal players & fans. I understand the frustration when things look bright and then turn dark.
Interesting five seconds from Cal Stanford game
It was great of Cam to raise her arms to show she was not doing anything. A little shove back by her might have earned both players a technical.
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - martyup - 03-08-2024
(03-07-2024, 06:36 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: On Cam’s first foul, Onyiah just lowered her shoulder and really bulldozed Cam.
If the roles were reversed, an offensive foul would have been called on Brink. We've seen that call all season in the Pac-12.
The stats show Cam with only one Brink. I swear I saw her block more than one shot last night. Am I wrong?
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - crackpot - 03-08-2024
(03-08-2024, 01:38 PM)martyup Wrote:(03-07-2024, 06:36 PM)qwerty49 Wrote: On Cam’s first foul, Onyiah just lowered her shoulder and really bulldozed Cam.
If the roles were reversed, an offensive foul would have been called on Brink. We've seen that call all season in the Pac-12.
The stats show Cam with only one Brink. I swear I saw her block more than one shot last night. Am I wrong?
A million times (always on Cam).
I thought the same thing about Brinks. Thought perhaps a Brink was credited as a steal (such as when she sorta grabbed the ball from the shooter and placed it with Brooke), but nah. Weird.
(03-08-2024, 12:41 AM)M T Wrote: I'm wondering about the short shots early in the game, esp. Cam. From every point on the court, and obvious on the FTs. Nervousness? I kinda hope so and that the nervousness won't show up later.
Prior to Cam's first FTA, she looked to be concerned about her wrist after landing on the ground. That FT was short, and the second one appeared to be short but bounced around and fell in. Her next FGA was short. I was wondering if it was hurting her and affecting her shot.
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - OCcardinal - 03-08-2024
(03-08-2024, 06:15 AM)2006alum Wrote: Re: Cam missing more shots lately, I have a totally unsubstantiated theory: I wonder if the eye surgery she had after last season is wearing off? I've known others who have had similar issues, where initially after the surgery, they have great vision, but then the problems slowly creep back in.I certainly hope that is not the case. But it is notable that in her last 5 games Brink has missed all 8 of her 3 point shots along with 10 free throws! (She missed only 11 free throws total in her previous 23 games this season.)
Baez87 - Baez87 - 03-08-2024
Mixing Metaphors: Football/Basketball
I’m concerned about the rough style of play that seems to characterizes a few of our opposing teams. Certainly, if one expects to win in competitive sports a team must play hard and aggressive, and not let up until the final buzzer. I’m not talking about simply playing hard.
Part of coaching is teaching skills and technique, the other part is to teach intensity and how to navigate through the rules of the game while avoiding injury to self and other.
Aggression in a game, however, lies between hard-nosed play and smash-mouth play. Judging from the level of play in the past few weeks of the PAC12, I’m concerned that some coaches might be encouraging too much of the latter.
Cori Close, in her attempts to get her players to stay upbeat and play their best, might be encouraging a level of play that could do more than lead to a win, it could also lead to injuries.
Personally I don’t think that any coach, including Close, is encouraging her players to injure anyone, I’m simply saying that an over-aggressive style of play may lead to injuries. And we have seen some pretty horrific injuries especially to Raegan Beers. We’ve also seen some that came close, as in last night’s game between UCLA and Utah where Utah’s phenomenal freshman, Ines Vieira, was thrashed about, bruised, and barely made it through the game!
Unfortunately, dangerous play can result from overemphasizing physicality over finesse by a coaching staff.
I’ve seen this demonstrated in a recent coaching session that went viral. In it, Close is seen talking to her team fully clothed in a UCLA football uniform flexing her muscles.
Her closing remarks were:
“Punch first! Punch often! Punch back! Or don’t get on the plane!”
Close addressed team in football attire
This is simply the wrong message for a basketball team, even if the words were clearly metaphorcal — and no one meant to harm anyone. Yet, we have seen at least one player severely injured and others helped off the court in recent games.
Why not adopt a much more sporting motto such as:
“Play hard, play fair, and no one gets hurt!”
RE: Baez87 - crackpot - 03-08-2024
(03-08-2024, 03:37 PM)Baez87 Wrote: Mixing Metaphors: Football/Basketball
I’m concerned about the rough style of play that seems to characterizes a few of our opposing teams. Certainly, if one expects to win in competitive sports a team must play hard and aggressive, and not let up until the final buzzer. I’m not talking about simply playing hard.
Part of coaching is teaching skills and technique, the other part is to teach intensity and how to navigate through the rules of the game while avoiding injury to self and other.
Aggression in a game, however, lies between hard-nosed play and smash-mouth play. Judging from the level of play in the past few weeks of the PAC12, I’m concerned that some coaches might be encouraging too much of the latter.
Cori Close, in her attempts to get her players to stay upbeat and play their best, might be encouraging a level of play that could do more than lead to a win, it could also lead to injuries.
Personally I don’t think that any coach, including Close, is encouraging her players to injure anyone, I’m simply saying that an over-aggressive style of play may lead to injuries. And we have seen some pretty horrific injuries especially to Raegan Beers. We’ve also seen some that came close, as in last night’s game between UCLA and Utah where Utah’s phenomenal freshman, Ines Vieira, was thrashed about, bruised, and barely made it through the game!
Unfortunately, dangerous play can result from overemphasizing physicality over finesse by a coaching staff.
I’ve seen this demonstrated in a recent coaching session that went viral. In it, Close is seen talking to her team fully clothed in a UCLA football uniform flexing her muscles.
Her closing remarks were:
“Punch first! Punch often! Punch back! Or don’t get on the plane!”
Close addressed team in football attire
This is simply the wrong message for a basketball team, even if the words were clearly metaphorcal — and no one meant to harm anyone. Yet, we have seen at least one player severely injured and others helped off the court in recent games.
Why not adopt a much more sporting motto such as:
“Play hard, play fair, and no one gets hurt!”
...because if she says that, UCLA might not win. If you can disable your defender for the rest of the game--or a few weeks, even--she sees nothing wrong with that. Close has always underachieved with the talent she has, so now she likely has adopted a new strategy.
I miss the fun times of the Nikki Caldwell-coached Bruins...
RE: Baez87 - TonyLima - 03-08-2024
(03-08-2024, 03:37 PM)Baez87 Wrote: Mixing Metaphors: Football/Basketball
I’m concerned about the rough style of play that seems to characterizes a few of our opposing teams. Certainly, if one expects to win in competitive sports a team must play hard and aggressive, and not let up until the final buzzer. I’m not talking about simply playing hard.
Part of coaching is teaching skills and technique, the other part is to teach intensity and how to navigate through the rules of the game while avoiding injury to self and other.
Aggression in a game, however, lies between hard-nosed play and smash-mouth play. Judging from the level of play in the past few weeks of the PAC12, I’m concerned that some coaches might be encouraging too much of the latter.
Cori Close, in her attempts to get her players to stay upbeat and play their best, might be encouraging a level of play that could do more than lead to a win, it could also lead to injuries.
Personally I don’t think that any coach, including Close, is encouraging her players to injure anyone, I’m simply saying that an over-aggressive style of play may lead to injuries. And we have seen some pretty horrific injuries especially to Raegan Beers. We’ve also seen some that came close, as in last night’s game between UCLA and Utah where Utah’s phenomenal freshman, Ines Vieira, was thrashed about, bruised, and barely made it through the game!
Unfortunately, dangerous play can result from overemphasizing physicality over finesse by a coaching staff.
I’ve seen this demonstrated in a recent coaching session that went viral. In it, Close is seen talking to her team fully clothed in a UCLA football uniform flexing her muscles.
Her closing remarks were:
“Punch first! Punch often! Punch back! Or don’t get on the plane!”
Close addressed team in football attire
This is simply the wrong message for a basketball team, even if the words were clearly metaphorcal — and no one meant to harm anyone. Yet, we have seen at least one player severely injured and others helped off the court in recent games.
Why not adopt a much more sporting motto such as:
“Play hard, play fair, and no one gets hurt!”
Depressing, but not surprising. Thanks ... I think.
RE: WBB: Pac 12 Tournament - crackpot - 03-08-2024
pre-game interview of Michele Brink from Oregon radio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2baRqLV_e8