Outside Topic Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Printable Version
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RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Genuine Realist - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 08:03 AM)82lsju Wrote: so 761 benefited over ~25 years so about 30 people a year. One wonders
- how many other similar firms were/are out there
- how he recruited the coaches to participate
- if any coaches he tried to recruit were not interested and if there were any why they did not report him
I also wonder if there were similar schemes involving things like exceptional musical talent where none existed......
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/college-cheating-mastermind-says-he-helped-nearly-800-families-admissions-n982666?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma
(03-14-2019, 07:52 AM)oldalum Wrote:(03-13-2019, 09:56 PM)winflop Wrote: I may have read incorrectly but I believe he was paid $100K directly. Of course he's now going to have to give it back.I do not believe that is accurate. His lawyer said he was the only coach in the group who did not receive any money himself, and everything I've read said the $270,000 went directly to the sailing program.
Here's the document on just Vandemoer, it says the payments were to the Stanford Sailing Program
Quote:- In or about May 2018, after Stanford Applicant 1 deferred his application to Stanford for one year. Singer mailed a payment of $110,000 from one of the KWF charitable accounts to the Stanford sailing program in exchange for VANDEMOER's agreement to designate Stanford Applicant 1 as a sailing recruit in the following year's recruitment cycle.
- In or about the summer of 2018, after Stanford Applicant 1 decided to attend a different university, VANDEMOER agreed with Singer to use that same recruiting spot for the child of another one of Singer's clients ("Stanford Applicant 2"), in exchange for a $500,000 payment to the Stanford sailing program.
- Although Stanford Applicant 2 ultimately did not apply to Stanford, Singer mailed a payment of $160,000 from one of the KWF charitable accounts to the Stanford sailing program.
https://www.justice.gov/file/1142906/download
in the larger document that talks to all the people it says things like
Quote:- Singer also made private school tuition payments for VAVIC's children
- he [Singer] directed payments of $20,000 per month to HEINEL personally via checks
https://www.justice.gov/file/1142881/download
The thought that 'bad' applications were ferreted out by Admissions is a little optimistic. The first student apparently opted for a 'gap' year and never reapplied. The second one applied elsewhere. The dad spent $260,000 on payments for applications that were never actually presented.
Wow.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - winflop - 03-14-2019
(03-13-2019, 05:17 PM)BostonCard Wrote:(03-13-2019, 02:56 PM)Genuine Realist Wrote: By the way, I notice that neither my alma mater (Pomona) nor any of the other super elite small colleges (Swarthmore, Bowdoin. Reid, Carleton, Oberlin, etc.) were involved - to date. I don't imagine that's because of superior virtue, but because it's a lot harder to hide a suspect application in a student body that small.
I was going to ask whether Pomona gave preference to athletes, but a little Googling showed that Pomona was a Division III school and had a page titled "recruit me" with a link to a form where prospective student athletes could fill out a form that would be sent to the coach. Division III doesn't offer scholarships, but it seems like the coaches probably could put a good word in with admissions.
So I think your theory is probably right. The other thing is that for a lot of the schools you cite, their academic quality exceeds their name recognition. Given that a lot of this was much more about the parents' egos than it was an attempt to advance their children's educations, it would make sense that the target schools were those with a lot of name recognition.
BC
(03-13-2019, 04:08 PM)winflop Wrote: I actually don't think any school's admissions teams did anything wrong here. They all followed their own guidelines. We can argue that those guidelines give an advantage to people with money and that may be true but those are the rules they are given.
The fraud was perpetrated upon them by these parents and the company and its agents. Sadly, one of the parents is a b-school classmate of mine. I don't wish ill upon many people, but I hope he misses our next reunion because he's in jail.
I tend to agree with you here, though my wife raised the question as to why the admissions office didn't do at least a minimum of due diligence. You can pick a random person on the Stanford sailing team and do a google search on them and find their times from old regattas, and sailing is probably one of the most obscure sports. Something like tennis or soccer would have team pages and even local news articles. My response is that presumably that is the coach's job, and that the admissions department's due diligence is to focus on the academics.
Obviously, inherent in the assumption is the now incorrect assumption that the coaches were not corruptable. One would like to think that a coach would, above all else, try to maximize their probability of winning, and that with a limited number of scholarships (or a limited number of non-scholarship admissions "chits") they would use them on the players that they really need to recruit, not players who will never contribute. But I guess if the dollar amount is high enough, a coach might be willing to sacrifice the marginal player.
BC
I agree that more diligence should be done - but at what point in the admissions process? Can't do that level of diligence on 60,000+ applicants. But again, this is a shortcoming of the process as defined, not something that admissions folks deliberately did wrong to get these kids in.
If anything, the holes exposed here will force colleges across the country to be more diligent at later stages in the admissions process. And I hope that when they find fraud they will refer the matter to authorities for prosecution. There has to be a significant disincentive to do this.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - cardcrimson - 03-14-2019
(03-13-2019, 09:08 PM)Nan3cy Wrote: In the late 90s I started advising freshmen at Stanford. One of my early students was a boy from Singapore — English kid whose father was a businessman there — who was pretty convinced he had only gotten in because he was a rower. Then he got to Stanford and realized he really didn’t want to be on the crew, so he quit. I think he worried after that that he really couldn’t hack it, but he wound up doing fine. I think the allowances made at Stanford for athletes are moderate enough that most of them can do fine — I just worry about some of them trying to deal with the demands of their sport at the same time that they’re trying to deal with the academic demands.
". . . .like juggling with knives." Kelly Caitlin, the Stanford cyclist who committed suicide last week, referring to the demands of balancing personal goals and athletics.
https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a26782547/kelly-catlin-cause-of-death-olympic-cyclist/
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 82lsju - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 09:15 AM)Genuine Realist Wrote: The thought that 'bad' applications were ferreted out by Admissions is a little optimistic. The first student apparently opted for a 'gap' year and never reapplied. The second one applied elsewhere. The dad spent $260,000 on payments for applications that were never actually presented.
Wow.
more from the document, I don't think applicant 1 took a gap year but decided to go elsewhere and not apply given the timing of deciding to go elsewhere in summer 2018
Quote:- In or about May 2018, after Stanford Applicant 1 deferred his application to Stanford for one year. Singer mailed a payment of $110,000 from one of the KWF charitable accounts to the Stanford sailing program in exchange for VANDEMOER's agreement to designate Stanford Applicant 1 as a sailing recruit in the following year's recruitment cycle.
- In or about the summer of 2018, after Stanford Applicant 1 decided to attend a different university,
I also think Singer was using the money paid as a placeholder deposit for a future unknown applicant who's parents would pay to use the spot, so this parent was probably not out $270k for nothing (I'm assuming that money was used to get the kid into the place they attended)
Quote:VANDEMOER agreed with Singer that the payment would serve as a "deposit" for a future student's purported recruitment.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Goose - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 08:44 AM)76lsjumb Wrote: According to the article about the new class action lawsuit by those Stanford students:
"Erica Olson and Kalea Woods say they were denied a fair opportunity to gain legitimate admission to elite colleges, and that their Stanford degrees were devalued, by criminal racketeering charges leveled by federal prosecutors.
The students claim they were denied a fair opportunity to apply for admission at Yale and USC, respectively, according to their March 13 complaint."
So let me get this straight: They're alleging that the injury they suffered was their inability to get into USC, forcing them to go to Stanford? Really? Really?
How about a class action lawsuit against these two for devaluing MY Stanford degree... ?
This is an egregious abuse of the legal system. There are so many things clearly wrong with this suit that I doubt there is any chance it will see the courtroom (standing being only one of them). This kind of abuse of the system is one of the reasons I think that we unfortunately need to have a penalty for such actions found to be without any merit. I realize the current system is designed to ensure that anyone who has actually been harmed by improper actions has recourse through the courts. However, something is needed to deter actions like this one!
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 2006alum - 03-14-2019
I suspect the story here is an opportunistic and borderline-abusive plaintiff's lawyer: one of the students has already dropped out of the suit, and the other can't be reached for comment.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 82lsju - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 10:29 AM)2006alum Wrote: I suspect the story here is an opportunistic and borderline-abusive plaintiff's lawyer: one of the students has already dropped out of the suit, and the other can't be reached for comment.
the filing is here
https://www.scribd.com/document/401895247/College-Cheating-Class-Action-Lawsuit
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - terry - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 09:15 AM)Genuine Realist Wrote: The thought that 'bad' applications were ferreted out by Admissions is a little optimistic. The first student apparently opted for a 'gap' year and never reapplied. The second one applied elsewhere. The dad spent $260,000 on payments for applications that were never actually presented.
Stanford's statement said this:
"Neither student came to Stanford; one student was initially denied admission and intended to reapply but never did, and the second never completed an application."
So we know that one application reached the admissions office with phony athletic credentials and a dishonest coach's recommendation. That application was denied. Thus, in the only tainted case that came before the admissions office, the admissions system worked: the unqualified applicant was rejected. Evidently the fabricated sailing resume and the dishonest coach's endorsement were not enough to overcome the applicant's lack of qualifications.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 82lsju - 03-14-2019
so in the world of it gets stranger and stranger
- per the Daily article one of the Plaintiffs (Erica Olsen) to drop out of the suit
- Olsen is a Dollie, one of the other Dollies is Sabrina Medler, she appears to be the daughter of the attorney who filed the lawsuit (John Medler)
new plaintiffs
Quote:
The new plaintiffs listed in the amended complaint are:
- Lauren Fidelak, who attends Tulane University, and her mother Keri Fidelak;
- Tyler Bendis, a student at a community college in Orange County, California, and his mother Julia Bendis;
- Nicholas James Johnson, a student at Rutgers and his father James Johnson.
https://www.stanforddaily.com/2019/03/14/seven-plaintiffs-named-in-amended-complaint-to-college-cheating-scandal/
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Goose - 03-14-2019
Every year, lots of "qualified" applicants to Stanford are not admitted. I don't think anybody on this board really knows exactly what criteria are used in selecting students to be admitted. It is not an objectively "fair" process, as there are many factors that cannot be compared directly. The University also has its own weightings factors that vary from year to year. That is why many parents desire an extra "push" from some factor such as athletics, or community service involvement, or ... Phony credentials in these areas probably haven't been a big enough problem in the past to require vetting. Henceforth, they will require scrutiny. I have no idea how much difference being on the sailing team will make in any given year. In the future, the University will now have to verify such factors for anybody they want to accept.
Cheating on standardized tests is entirely another matter. The fact a "ringer" can take the SAT for you and not be detected is absurd. The fact that a person could do this for years and not get caught is even more problematic. Simple things like requiring proper photo id (like you need to get on an airplane) should make it difficult to get in the room if you are not who you are supposed to be. Random assignments of proctors to venues should make it very difficult for corrupt proctors to help anybody with the test. Requiring two randomly assigned proctors should make it virtually impossible. It is unfortunate that this type of concern is required. It is also probably true that no scheme is foolproof. It should be possible to develop a protocol that will make it very improbable that anybody could get away with this at all, let alone long-term as appears to have happened in this case. It shouldn't be possible to make a business of it!
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - washingtonismoney - 03-14-2019
An opinion piece on the exigencies of expelling students over the fraud: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-14/college-admissions-scandal-should-students-be-expelled
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - oldalum - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 09:15 AM)Genuine Realist Wrote: The dad spent $260,000 on payments for applications that were never actually presented.yes, but to be scrupulously accurate (more important these days than before, I think!), one dad paid $110,000 and a different dad paid $160,000.
(03-14-2019, 08:19 AM)2006alum Wrote: I don't have time for a long post now (hope to do one later today), but for now I will just say that both the underlying scandal, and now the frivolous lawsuits seeking to capitalize on it, are both indicative of what has gone wrong with our contemporary society and the complete lack of moral responsibility many citizens seem to have for how they comport themselves and what they expect from themselves and from others. The scandal, the bribes, the lawsuits, are all evince a kind of unquestioned entitlement that has run amok over any sense of personal responsibility.
Couldn't agree more with this. It's not funny, but in these times it seems laughter is the only comfort we can have. In that vein, I thought this NY Times opinion piece was good: NY Times
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - needle - 03-14-2019
Info on the tipster from the Wall Street Journal says he was being investigated for securities fraud.
I don't subscribe, but here is the link for those who do.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-yale-dad-who-set-off-the-college-admissions-scandal-11552588402?shareToken=std89c2282588348ebb7ecefa2f53495ab
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - 2006alum - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 09:19 AM)cardcrimson Wrote:(03-13-2019, 09:08 PM)Nan3cy Wrote: In the late 90s I started advising freshmen at Stanford. One of my early students was a boy from Singapore — English kid whose father was a businessman there — who was pretty convinced he had only gotten in because he was a rower. Then he got to Stanford and realized he really didn’t want to be on the crew, so he quit. I think he worried after that that he really couldn’t hack it, but he wound up doing fine. I think the allowances made at Stanford for athletes are moderate enough that most of them can do fine — I just worry about some of them trying to deal with the demands of their sport at the same time that they’re trying to deal with the academic demands.
". . . .like juggling with knives." Kelly Caitlin, the Stanford cyclist who committed suicide last week, referring to the demands of balancing personal goals and athletics.
https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a26782547/kelly-catlin-cause-of-death-olympic-cyclist/
Wow, I hadn't realized that she'd had a serious concussion and was suffering from headaches and intolerance to light. I wonder how much of a role that might have played in her altered mental state, because it sounds like the severity of her circumstances exacerbated substantially after that fall. What a sad, sad story.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Genuine Realist - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 11:55 AM)terry Wrote:(03-14-2019, 09:15 AM)Genuine Realist Wrote: The thought that 'bad' applications were ferreted out by Admissions is a little optimistic. The first student apparently opted for a 'gap' year and never reapplied. The second one applied elsewhere. The dad spent $260,000 on payments for applications that were never actually presented.
Stanford's statement said this:
"Neither student came to Stanford; one student was initially denied admission and intended to reapply but never did, and the second never completed an application."
So we know that one application reached the admissions office with phony athletic credentials and a dishonest coach's recommendation. That application was denied. Thus, in the only tainted case that came before the admissions office, the admissions system worked: the unqualified applicant was rejected. Evidently the fabricated sailing resume and the dishonest coach's endorsement were not enough to overcome the applicant's lack of qualifications.
Stanford's statement does not match the recitals (evidently from the indictment). Those are quoted above. Evidently, Student 1 decided to defer the process for a year, and during that year, chose a different school.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - Farm93 - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 01:59 PM)Genuine Realist Wrote:(03-14-2019, 11:55 AM)terry Wrote:(03-14-2019, 09:15 AM)Genuine Realist Wrote: The thought that 'bad' applications were ferreted out by Admissions is a little optimistic. The first student apparently opted for a 'gap' year and never reapplied. The second one applied elsewhere. The dad spent $260,000 on payments for applications that were never actually presented.
Stanford's statement said this:
"Neither student came to Stanford; one student was initially denied admission and intended to reapply but never did, and the second never completed an application."
So we know that one application reached the admissions office with phony athletic credentials and a dishonest coach's recommendation. That application was denied. Thus, in the only tainted case that came before the admissions office, the admissions system worked: the unqualified applicant was rejected. Evidently the fabricated sailing resume and the dishonest coach's endorsement were not enough to overcome the applicant's lack of qualifications.
Stanford's statement does not match the recitals (evidently from the indictment). Those are quoted above. Evidently, Student 1 decided to defer the process for a year, and during that year, chose a different school.
I am inclined to believe Stanford here. With several schools involved I really doubt the investigators troubled themselves with specifics that were not material to the indictments.
Simple way to think of this. If accepted applicants are allowed to take a gap year, why would one need to reapply? They wouldn't.
https://www.stanforddaily.com/2018/01/11/a-year-deferred-qa-with-current-gap-year-students/
https://www.quora.com/Does-Stanford-accept-gap-year-students-for-undergrad-admissions
Then back to reality. The coach/school got a fraction of the total funds. So as a parent I learn of this scheme. Then I agree to funnel in a mid-six figure number into the plan. We bribe a coach and create an image of my child as a sailing expert. We do all of that, get into Stanford and then...ah, never mind. We will apply again next year. That doesn't make sense.
Seems more likely that they did all of that but admissions turned them away. Trying hard to preserve the reputation of the illegal scheme the mastermind would claim they person opted out or decided to do something else. That person would say almost anything other than tell future clients that they may do all of this illegal stuff and your child still might not get in.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - oldalum - 03-14-2019
while USC's long history of cheating and other scandals (including but not limited to sports) is being recalled, I remembered a little-known one that occurred when I was in medical school at UCLA. The National Board Exam Part I was traditionally given at each of the medical schools in Southern California, and the Board had medical school administrators at each site administer and proctor them. But the year before I took it, a USC administrator sold copies of the exam to USC med students. They were later caught and the scores invalidated, but for my year the Board decided to send out their own people to proctor it themselves at one location, and they decided the most central location was at USC. So everyone else had to drive to and from USC in rush hour twice to take the 2-day exam. It was a total disaster, they were overwhelmed by the large number of students, and in order to get the exam going they had to completely drop all security measures. What is it about that place that attracts such people????!!!
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - terry - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 01:59 PM)Genuine Realist Wrote:(03-14-2019, 11:55 AM)terry Wrote:(03-14-2019, 09:15 AM)Genuine Realist Wrote: The thought that 'bad' applications were ferreted out by Admissions is a little optimistic. The first student apparently opted for a 'gap' year and never reapplied. The second one applied elsewhere. The dad spent $260,000 on payments for applications that were never actually presented.
Stanford's statement said this:
"Neither student came to Stanford; one student was initially denied admission and intended to reapply but never did, and the second never completed an application."
So we know that one application reached the admissions office with phony athletic credentials and a dishonest coach's recommendation. That application was denied. Thus, in the only tainted case that came before the admissions office, the admissions system worked: the unqualified applicant was rejected. Evidently the fabricated sailing resume and the dishonest coach's endorsement were not enough to overcome the applicant's lack of qualifications.
Stanford's statement does not match the recitals (evidently from the indictment). Those are quoted above. Evidently, Student 1 decided to defer the process for a year, and during that year, chose a different school.
I trust Stanford's statement that the student was denied admission. Stanford has first-hand knowledge of its admissions decisions.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - donkey687 - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 02:33 PM)Farm93 Wrote:(03-14-2019, 01:59 PM)Genuine Realist Wrote:(03-14-2019, 11:55 AM)terry Wrote:(03-14-2019, 09:15 AM)Genuine Realist Wrote: The thought that 'bad' applications were ferreted out by Admissions is a little optimistic. The first student apparently opted for a 'gap' year and never reapplied. The second one applied elsewhere. The dad spent $260,000 on payments for applications that were never actually presented.
Stanford's statement said this:
"Neither student came to Stanford; one student was initially denied admission and intended to reapply but never did, and the second never completed an application."
So we know that one application reached the admissions office with phony athletic credentials and a dishonest coach's recommendation. That application was denied. Thus, in the only tainted case that came before the admissions office, the admissions system worked: the unqualified applicant was rejected. Evidently the fabricated sailing resume and the dishonest coach's endorsement were not enough to overcome the applicant's lack of qualifications.
Stanford's statement does not match the recitals (evidently from the indictment). Those are quoted above. Evidently, Student 1 decided to defer the process for a year, and during that year, chose a different school.
I am inclined to believe Stanford here. With several schools involved I really doubt the investigators troubled themselves with specifics that were not material to the indictments.
Simple way to think of this. If accepted applicants are allowed to take a gap year, why would one need to reapply? They wouldn't.
https://www.stanforddaily.com/2018/01/11/a-year-deferred-qa-with-current-gap-year-students/
https://www.quora.com/Does-Stanford-accept-gap-year-students-for-undergrad-admissions
Then back to reality. The coach/school got a fraction of the total funds. So as a parent I learn of this scheme. Then I agree to funnel in a mid-six figure number into the plan. We bribe a coach and create an image of my child as a sailing expert. We do all of that, get into Stanford and then...ah, never mind. We will apply again next year. That doesn't make sense.
Seems more likely that they did all of that but admissions turned them away. Trying hard to preserve the reputation of the illegal scheme the mastermind would claim they person opted out or decided to do something else. That person would say almost anything other than tell future clients that they may do all of this illegal stuff and your child still might not get in.
The reality is that sailing doesn't have that much pull with 1-4 recruits entering each year. The team is made up of about 50% walk-ons that weren't really recruited and didn't get any admissions pull. Each of the last two recruiting classes for sailing have been excellent with a couple of the top sailing recruits in the country. As fraudulent as Coach V was in this scandal, I assume he was ranking the nationally ranked recruits ahead of the phony recruit with admissions so it doesn't surprise me that Coach V's recommendation of the phony recruit didn't sway the admissions process.
By the way, there has been little discussion of the current sailing team members here. They have a pretty stacked team especially on the Co-Ed side and they should be in the running for top 5 finishes at nationals this spring. The skippers on that team have an impressive sailing background prior to Stanford and they will forever be tarnished by the actions of their former coach and by outsiders who will feel they gained admittance to Stanford due to improper circumstances. It sucks for them. I will be rooting for them, and I hope that the Athletics Department doesn't punish those athletes for the actions of their former coach.
RE: Alleged large-scale test-cheating ring to get athletes into Stanford, other schools - stupac2 - 03-14-2019
(03-14-2019, 12:33 PM)Goose Wrote: Simple things like requiring proper photo id (like you need to get on an airplane) should make it difficult to get in the room if you are not who you are supposed to be.
IIRC they checked my ID when I took it way back in 2004, but two things to think about here:
1) That does no good if the proctor is on the take (which was the case here).
2) Poor kids are less likely to have ID and already disadvantaged enough by this system.