NCAA Championship Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship!

NCAA Championship Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - Printable Version

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RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - BostonCard - 12-10-2019

There's a bit of a game theory being played. The kicker can kick the PK so that it is essentially unstoppable by the goaltender, but the better the placement/pace of the kick (and thus the more unstoppable the ball), the higher the risk of a miss. So within the parameter of the best kick you can make while maximizing the chance that the kick is on goal, then if the goaltender guesses correctly, it is probably stoppable. But for that to be the case, the goalie has to make the commitment early, which makes them vulnerable to a weak kick that just goes to the other side. But of course, at the far extreme of that, a weak kick (or a Panenka: origin here) can potentially be reacted to by the goalie if she doesn't guess.

The best bet is probably to kick it with as much pace and placement as the kicker feels they can reliably administer, and risk the keeper guessing correctly and being able to stop it (Meyer got a hand on one PK where she guessed right, but it was a solid kick that still got through). From the keeper, yeah, you probably have to guess.

There are some interesting articles if you google "Game Theory Penalty Kicks"

BC

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - oldalum - 12-10-2019

Some sobering news from Elliott Almond: Haley and Girma won't be participating in the USWNT camp this week due to injury.

They sure didn't play like they were injured.

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - cardcrimson - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 12:51 PM)oldalum Wrote: Some sobering news from Elliott Almond: Haley and Girma won't be participating in the USWNT camp this week due to injury.

They sure didn't play like they were injured.

Haley was tackled very hard from behind in the first half. She was a little slow to get up. No idea if that had anything to do with it, but the defender deserved a card for her tirade after she was called for a foul.

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - Farm93 - 12-10-2019

Haley was also less than 100% going into the cup.

Both continued after hard tackles during the final.

Not to mention this is a rather important week for Stanford students.

My guess is the USWNT staff saw more than enough of the Stanford players during the College Cup to have some understanding of their soccer skills against quality opponents.

RE: Griffins78 - 81alum - 12-10-2019

(12-10-2019, 11:51 AM)ColoradoTree Wrote:
(12-10-2019, 06:43 AM)81alum Wrote:
(12-09-2019, 11:22 PM)Griffins78 Wrote: Meyer went the right direction most of the time and almost blocked several PKs. The UNC goalie was beat badly almost every time.
There was the one where Meyer went to her left and went too far since the ball came in behind her--she got a hand on it but could not stop it. And there was the kick from the UNC goalie that went high and straight, Meyer could only have stopped it if she did not move right or left.

I wondered about those two and what it says about the strategy. If goalies always guess and move right or left, then why not kick the ball right down the middle? That is sort of what happened to Meyer twice.

That's the theory behind the Panenka (the name for the kick down the middle of the goal). It's cheeky, but it plays the odds. Of course, the downside is that they save it and you look pretty foolish (and if the ball doesn't go dead center, you still risk the goalie being able to kick the ball clear, or even get a hand on it if they didn't fully commit to a dive to the left or right). If you kick it hard enough to the left or right in a standard penalty, even if the goalie guesses the right way, it can still go through their fingers.

Sometimes it goes great and you look clever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAnsXBLLa4s

Sometimes it blows up in your face: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMfrnTLonIM

Of course, the goalies aren't just guessing, but reading your body language and (at the professional level) they have some knowledge of common penalty takers' tendencies, so you have your suspicions as a keeper before the kick, and the way they set up and approach might or might not change what you decide to do. The fact that Meyer was mostly right is a testament to her skills at reading the opposing players, and a knock on the kickers for perhaps telegraphing what they were going to do.

Thank you for that wonderful response! You've taught me a lot, and the videos were very helpful :)

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - muiron - 12-10-2019

One of the two most intense sporting events I have ever attended, in terms of the degree of my complete collapse after the victory. I think it edges Andrew Luck's 3 OT victory at USC in 2011 but close call. The difference is that I was so completely bonded with this wonderful team. A defeat would have been truly heartbreaking.

I love the whole team, esp Cat, Maddie, Sophia, Sam, Kiki, (and now Katie) but I want to highlight this VG comment.

In just every sport, in just about every season, defense wins championships. In soccer, center backs are the rocks. And Naomi is a great rock. Calm, collected, fast, smart, skilled...the perfect CB. Yes, I love Kiki and Katie came through big time, but Naomi was the "man of the match."

And second, by the player who I think was really the MOP, but plays a position that won't get it - Naomi Girma. Her PK hit SIDE NETTING about 5 feet off the ground - that's the definition of unsaveable. And she time and again cleaned up 1v1s, and through balls, and stepped forward to short stop UNC attacks from getting off the ground. Stanford gave up 1 goal in two games against two of the top 10 offenses in the country.

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - cardfan77 - 12-10-2019

Any clips/videos of the post match press conference?

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - BostonCard - 12-10-2019

No, but my search did lead me to this package of highlights...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiXdAaedBEw

Not many in game highlights (what can you do in a nil-nil game?), but still a nicely produced video. And yeah, UNC was a bit rough.

Just curious, what was with the blue and white ticker tape? Earthquakes colors? Could they really not substitute red?

BC

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - qwerty49 - 12-10-2019

I know nothing about soccer.

Can someone describe the strategy behind the PK "lineup" order? Is it as simple as "best kicker first, etc" -- in order to put early pressure on and reach a clinching point --- or is there more to it? Can you change the lineup in the midst of the shootout? Or is it like baseball where the lineup is set and known before the game to both sides?

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - Viking_Guy - 12-10-2019

That highlight package has a clear example of why I thought Girma was the most important player for Stanford on Sunday.

Watch beginning around 2:13. Doms, who had a rough couple of games at the cup, gets caught in possession and bulled out of the way by a Carolina midfielder. Turnover in the midfield, ready for a dangerous counter. The Tar Heel hits a quick through ball that is right into the path of a sprinting forward. Until Girma, even caught flat-footed by the bad turnover, sticks out a foot, knocks it out of the air, and has perfectly settles it to restart the offense. I remember watching that and thinking, "Soccer isn't that easy." But through her positioning, reactions, and skill, Naomi makes it look so much simpler than it is.

This isn't meant to say others weren't key to Stanford's success. But, in the line of great Cardinal center backs that I have seen, from Melinda Minstrell and Jess Fischer through Buehldozer Rachel Buehler to Alina Garciamendez to Alana Cook, I think Girma may end up the best. Actually, I wonder if Ratcliffe will pull a Tierna Davidson, and push her forward to defensive center midfield - she's so darned smooth going forward, it seems a shame she does it so rarely.

And again, we are SO lucky to have been able to watch this team this season. Hoping everyone stays healthy, Civana recovers fully (to slot in for Malatskey), and looking forward to watching some spring ball.

After the men get after it on Friday :).

VG

AFAIK, you have to designate an order prior to the first kick being taken' people were speculating that one of the coaches might have made a mistake in UNC's order, to put the freshman who missed in the sixth slot; she had only played about 90 minutes all season, and only about 10 in the postseason, apparently. But taking PKs is a definite skill.

It used to be that it could only be comprised of the players on the field at the time the whistle blew, but I've seen some things that make me doubt that (e.g. Clemson substituted in a keeper who I believe hadn't played during the came for the men's shootout.)

The other rule that I have only rarely seen come into play is that each player must take a shot before any player is allowed to repeat.

BTW, Girma's PK that I referenced is at 3:31 :).

VG

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - CompSci87 - 12-11-2019

(12-10-2019, 11:25 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Just curious, what was with the blue and white ticker tape? Earthquakes colors? Could they really not substitute red?

NCAA colors, I bet. I still shake my head about the WBB regional we hosted where the NCAA allowed the word STANFORD to be on the baseline, but made it blue instead of cardinal red.

p.s. After looking at the video, the tape actually looks like UNC colors. Much lighter blue than NCAA usually uses. Hmm.

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - BostonCard - 12-11-2019

FWIW, Earthquake's colors are black and blue.

BC

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - TheFarm07 - 12-11-2019

How does the team look going into next season?

Just briefly looking at the roster, it looks like we lose a couple people like Hiatt and Malatskey to graduation, but we return the bulk of the lineup such as Macario and Girma back.

Are we getting a good incoming freshman class to re-fill the ranks?

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - 81alum - 12-11-2019

(12-10-2019, 11:25 PM)BostonCard Wrote: No, but my search did lead me to this package of highlights...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiXdAaedBEw

Not many in game highlights (what can you do in a nil-nil game?), but still a nicely produced video. And yeah, UNC was a bit rough.

Just curious, what was with the blue and white ticker tape? Earthquakes colors? Could they really not substitute red?

BC

Yes, that was a nicely produced video. And yes, the confetti was UNC colors. I bet there was a Stanford box of confetti and they mixed it up!

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - martyup - 12-11-2019

As much as we enjoyed the "thrill of victory," that was the epitome of "agony of defeat" for the Tar Heels.

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - oldalum - 12-11-2019

(12-10-2019, 11:57 PM)Viking_Guy Wrote: AFAIK, you have to designate an order prior to the first kick being taken

It used to be that it could only be comprised of the players on the field at the time the whistle blew, but I've seen some things that make me doubt that (e.g. Clemson substituted in a keeper who I believe hadn't played during the came for the men's shootout.)

I've seen the GK substitution done once before. The NCAA rule is copied here:

(7.1.1.1) Only players who are listed on the official NCAA game roster form shall be eligible to participate in the tiebreaker. Each team shall designate either:
(a) 10 different kickers, one of whom may be the goalkeeper; or
(b) 10 different kickers and a goalkeeper who will not participate as a designated kicker in the tiebreaker procedure. The kicking order shall be at the discretion of the kicking team; however, after all the eligible kickers have kicked once, the order of the designated kickers may change.

This does not seem to require the order of kickers to be communicated to the officials, only the names of those eligible to kick. The Stanford players lined up at the half line in kicking order, at least for the 6 who actually kicked, so they knew their planned order. (next in line: Hiatt, Haley, Enge, Doms)

After blocking the first PK, Katie continued off to her right, doing her thing and needing to be sent back to her proper spot:

7.1.1.5 The nonparticipating goalkeeper shall stay on the field of play at one corner of the penalty area. All designated players except the kicker and the designated goalkeepers shall remain in the center circle.

The teams wisely separated themselves at the half line by staying off the college cup logo.

(12-11-2019, 07:13 AM)81alum Wrote: And yes, the confetti was UNC colors.

That's what I thought at the scene, but it seems to be the darker NCAA blue:

confetti pic

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - Spiny_Norman - 12-11-2019

(12-11-2019, 07:21 AM)martyup Wrote: As much as we enjoyed the "thrill of victory," that was the epitome of "agony of defeat" for the Tar Heels.

Agony of de feet.

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - Treefence - 12-11-2019

(12-11-2019, 03:04 AM)TheFarm07 Wrote: How does the team look going into next season?

Just briefly looking at the roster, it looks like we lose a couple people like Hiatt and Malatskey to graduation, but we return the bulk of the lineup such as Macario and Girma back.

Are we getting a good incoming freshman class to re-fill the ranks?

There's always a worry that some of our top players will go pro, who knows if it happens, but Macario and Girma are easily good enough to do so now if they wanted to. My guess is Civana Kuhlmann takes the spot Malatskey left, she probably would've had that spot had she not broken her leg before the year. In her recruiting class she was actually the 2nd overall recruit, ahead of Macario who was 3rd. As far as incoming frosh go, by far our top recruit is Astrid Wheeler. She's another one who has been playing for the USA youth teams, she's a midfielder though, so she might not start right away. We have 7 total recruits, including 2 goalies. Besides Wheeler, they are all in the 3/4 star range, so any of them have the talent to be great, but none of them are for sure bets. I'm interested to see who fills the role for Hiatt, I'll be honest I didn't think she was particularly great this year, she often seemed a step slow. Once Wesley took the left back spot over JoJo Harber, I thought Hiatt was our weakest link on the back line. But it's all relative, really, Stanford's back line was so dominant, I'm really just nitpicking.

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - cardcrimson - 12-11-2019

Rooting for Julia Leontini. Don't know her abilities, but love her work ethic. While walking our dog, I've seen her practicing alone in the predawn hours on multiple occasions. She's nice to dogs, too.

(12-11-2019, 10:41 AM)Treefence Wrote:
(12-11-2019, 03:04 AM)TheFarm07 Wrote: How does the team look going into next season?

Just briefly looking at the roster, it looks like we lose a couple people like Hiatt and Malatskey to graduation, but we return the bulk of the lineup such as Macario and Girma back.

Are we getting a good incoming freshman class to re-fill the ranks?

There's always a worry that some of our top players will go pro, who knows if it happens, but Macario and Girma are easily good enough to do so now if they wanted to. My guess is Civana Kuhlmann takes the spot Malatskey left, she probably would've had that spot had she not broken her leg before the year. In her recruiting class she was actually the 2nd overall recruit, ahead of Macario who was 3rd. As far as incoming frosh go, by far our top recruit is Astrid Wheeler. She's another one who has been playing for the USA youth teams, she's a midfielder though, so she might not start right away. We have 7 total recruits, including 2 goalies. Besides Wheeler, they are all in the 3/4 star range, so any of them have the talent to be great, but none of them are for sure bets. I'm interested to see who fills the role for Hiatt, I'll be honest I didn't think she was particularly great this year, she often seemed a step slow. Once Wesley took the left back spot over JoJo Harber, I thought Hiatt was our weakest link on the back line. But it's all relative, really, Stanford's back line was so dominant, I'm really just nitpicking.

RE: Women’s Soccer Wins National Championship! - Griffins78 - 12-11-2019

This is a video of the post game celebration and medal ceremony which was switched to ESPN3:

http://www.espn.com/watch?id=131300dd-6987-4a8a-ba58-7770d7716a2c