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Controversial Mascot Names in the News - USPTO Takes a Stand - Printable Version

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My misteak - Mick - 07-01-2014

(06-30-2014, 10:45 PM)82 Card link Wrote:[quote author=Mick link=topic=10129.msg91748#msg91748 date=1404055665]
... Nick joined the Palo Alto Sheriff's department, where he became the guy who would be the first one breaking in a door at speakeasies in the Whiskey Gulch area....

Wouldn't that be outside the jurisdiction of a Palo Alto officer? I wonder if family lore may have actually been referring to what was at one time the city of Mayfield. Mayfield was the wet town that refused to go dry for Leland Stanford, prompting Stanford to set up Palo Alto. Mayfield was incorporated into Palo Alto in 1925.  A couple of links:

History of prohibition in Palo Alto:
http://www.paloaltohistory.com/liquor-in-palo-alto.php

Mayfield incorporated by Palo Alto:
http://www.paloaltohistory.com/the-beginning-of-mayfields-end.php
[/quote]


He was a Santa Clara County deputy sheriff who lived in Palo Alto.  He also worked in San Jose, and when a particularly tough criminal needed to be arrested, Nick would get the call.  Here's an example:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1983&dat=19400906&id=nGIiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=oasFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3064,379161

I met one of Nick's former fellow sheriff's deputies who told me a number of stories about breaking into speakeasies.  Very entertaining.

Re: Controversial Mascot Names in the News - USPTO Takes a Stand - terry - 07-04-2014

I deleted my post, because the post to which I was responding was deleted.

Thank you, Terry - Redrum - 07-05-2014

Sorry, Ferrari.....you've been terry-fied.  And in the nick of time, too.  Terry is famous for speaking truth to power, or at least truth to the dominant paradigm on the Bootleg's Current Affairs Board.  Unfortunately, it's too little balance for too long over there.  The only thing salvageable is that we keep the partisan political disease from spreading to here.  Ferrari's post was just a spark and mostly harmless in itself,  but that is how conflagration starts.  The CEB now looks mostly like Hiroshima in both tone and content.  The fuel for the holocaust over there is the wave of links to articles/post/sites that promote one partisan side.  That, in turn, sparks a series of comments by the same cast of characters agreeing and endorsing.  Not much enlightening discussion. Mostly an echo chamber.

I have a problem with that.  I think partisan or elective politics should be treated like ebola  or like an unexploded, booby-trapped bomb.  Messing about with it offers little to gain,  everything to risk for the kind of community we've built here.  I have no problem with disagreement, even strongly-expressed disagreement.  But the internet world of partisan politics offers unlimited other places to start or continue those kind of fights.  But that's not the Cardboard world historically or now, and linking partisan outside sources is an easy away to light the fuse.

By contrast,  In this single thread, the discussion has gone into several topics.  .  And it was reasonable and informative as members gave their perspectives.  I and (I think we) learned a lot.  But this thread was all or mostly all original material thought-through and crafted by the participants.  Also it was mostly personal.  It is very different thing to share backgrounds and the views that come out of those experiences.  Putting in the work to craft a post explaining the larger issues is one thing I can respect.  We have many members who are very good at that.  Posting links to partisan viewpoints (particularly without accompanying personal content explaining the context of why the viewpoint expressed in that link has meaning) is contrary to the main purpose of this board.

Anyway, I'm touchy on this particular subject.  I might be the only one.  But I don't care.  So many larger issues have been discussed here with reason, skill and humor.  Let's keep it that way.

And, as I stated earlier, Ferrari.  It's not personal at all.  You just happened to step on the tripwire.

Re: Thank you, Terry - Extra Point - 07-05-2014

(07-05-2014, 11:41 AM)Redrum link Wrote:The only thing salvageable is that we keep the partisan political disease from spreading to here.

The fuel for the holocaust over there is the wave of links to articles/post/sites that promote one partisan side.

Not much enlightening discussion. Mostly an echo chamber.

I think partisan or elective politics should be treated like ebola or like an unexploded, booby-trapped bomb. 

It's not personal at all.  You just happened to step on the tripwire.

I have to ask Redrum. How do you come up these metaphores?

H. Bruce was an annoying, egotistic little ***** - Redrum - 07-05-2014

And that is quite apart from his politics.  I took a optional 1-credit reading course on radical politics just to see what the fuss was about.  If there was a worse representative for an already controversial point of view,  H. Bruce was the title holder in the Stanford orbit.  We were exposed to him on campus quite a bit without trying, but attendance at some of Franklin's public lectures were part of the course. When the leader of the reading section got all dewy-eyed when describing him as some bright light for the academic world,  I was sitting in the back of the room wondering:  "Were you guys at the same event I was? "  Read maybe half the recommended reading list,  got the general idea and bagged on the course. Even then, even for academic credit,  life was too short to worship H. Bruce.

For what little it's worth - Redrum - 07-05-2014

I don't much like the respect system, particularly the negative.  It's a practice imported from the internet culture in general and other than some sort of quick approval or disapproval.  We got along without it for years. I don't see it's usefulness, obviously I'm in a minority.  It's a conceptual thing,  like bitcoin but not really redeemable anywhere.

So we've established I don't like: partisan politics posts, H. Bruce Franklin and the "respect system"  Why stop there?  Other things I don't like:  most American mass market beers, Cal football, yappy dogs, the guy who came up with the electronic lock scheme for the Ford Focus, anything USC with some very narrow exceptions,  relatives who love fireworks out at the grandmother's lake house but never actually contribute to providing them,  brown recluse spiders and, at the moment,  moles.  Not the Soviet spy moles, the furry kill you plants kind.  That will do for today.

Re: For what little it's worth - stupac2 - 07-05-2014

(07-05-2014, 05:16 PM)Redrum link Wrote:most American mass market beers

Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is available almost everywhere and very good.

Non-political advice - Mick - 07-06-2014

(07-05-2014, 05:16 PM)Redrum link Wrote:I don't much like ... moles.  Not the Soviet spy moles, the furry kill you plants kind. 


My mother in law, a very elegant lady, sold real estate at one time.  Her solution for ground rodents?  Pee on them.  Maybe not directly...but supposedly human urine scares them into departing.  Worked for me.  YMMV.

Funny, I didn't know a "war" had broken out - Redrum - 07-06-2014

...I thought it was just me having a tantrum. Crazy man standing by the side of the road shouting and gesticulating.  But if everybody thinks it was a "war"  it was a war against a disease, not anybody here.  Any other "war"?  Just tell me where to line up to surrender.  Well, except for the war on USC, Kal and Notre Dame.  No fake girlfriends...No surrender!

The relationship between the University of Utah and the Ute tribe - 61_Shasta - 07-07-2014

First, thanks for the kind words, Yvonne.  Probably not a brobdingnagian amount of Cardboarders are familiar with the history of the Ute name so, if I may, a little back story.  If you like, just skip to the last paragraph for a summary.

The name of the University of Utah athletic teams has been a delicate balancing act from day one that seems to have evolved into an interesting symbiotic relationship between the school and the Ute Indian Tribe.  One thing that complicates the relationship is that there are multiple bands under the tribe itself.  Some are very progressive and money oriented while others are more traditional and spiritually oriented.  The lack of unity inside the tribe itself presents its own set of problems but that's a whole another post that likely isn't particularly relevant to thecardboard.

Until 1972 the school used the name Redskins as it's official school name.  With the new found sensitivity toward Native Americans in the 60's there was growing pressure on the school to change its name to a more civil moniker.  At that point the University obtained permission from the tribe to use the name Utes.  However, in a very smart move, the tribe maintained the trademark on the name and granted the school a license to use the name at the tribe's discretion.  At first there wasn't a monetary consideration or if there was it was very small.  During the time that the university was known as the Redskins and for the first few years of the agreement with the tribe, the school used a couple of mascots, a male student (typically a Caucasian student in brown makeup) dressed in varying native dress and a cartoon mascot known as Hoyo.
[Image: hoyo2.jpg]
Not long after the agreement between the the school and the tribe some members of the tribe started to realize that they held a considerable amount of leverage over the school and made the observation that Hoyo was probably about as stereotyped and racist as a mascot could be and that they really wasn't too fond of him.  Ditto with the guy dressed up in leather and feathers.  The school quickly discontinued use of both to appease the tribe.  The name Utes took about a decade to really catch on as many diehard alumni stuck with the Redskins name.  As a capitulation to those alumni the school introduced the "Crimson Warrior" in the mid 80s.  The Crimson Warrior would (in a pretty blatant rip-off of FSU) ride in on a horse and plant a flaming spear into a bale of hay at midfield.  For the first year the school used a Native American as the Crimson Warrior but in the next two years they couldn't find a Native American student to fill the part so they went back to a Caucasian dressed as the warrior.  Once again the tribe voiced its opinion and the warrior was soon gone.  The school went for several years without a live mascot until 1996 when the school and the tribe agreed on Swoop, a caricature of a red-tail hawk, a bird indigenous to the area but, contrary to popular legend, not sacred to the tribe.  Swoop has been the mascot since then with mixed reviews among many of the fans.

Also in the 80s the school and the tribe negotiated out a monetary agreement that paid a more significant payout to the tribe for the use of the name as well as other symbols trademarked by the tribe including what was then known as the Drum and Feather.  While the D&F had been used very infrequently before that time, it quickly became the main symbol of the school's athletics department and teams with the exception of the gymnastics team which for whatever reason has always identified itself as the "Red Rocks" and uses a thumb and forefinger "U" as it's unofficial symbol.  As interest in Utah football and basketball grew in the 90s the payout to the tribe became rather significant and the relationship had evened out or even swung in the favor of the school.  The school was now in a position where it could threaten to change the name with the resulting loss of revenue to the tribe as licensing agreements expired.  As various memorandums of understanding between the tribe and the school  would expire the school would use that leverage to ward off any increase in the licensing fee between the school and the tribe.

The 2000s were a fairly balanced relationship with the only concession that comes to mind being that the school discontinued referring to the Drum & Feather citing it rather as the Circle & Feather  to create further distance from the drums used in several sacred ceremonies by the tribe.  I guess I'm old and curmudgeonly enough that I still refer to the D&F as the D&F.  As the football team continued to become more successful sales of Utah gear soared and put each side in an interesting position.  The tribe felt that they should get more money for the use of its trademarks and the school countered by publicly looking into changing the name and drying up the revenue stream to the tribe.  I have heard that in 2004 and 2008 the money paid by the school to the tribe from the licensing agreement was over 50% of the tribe's operating budget.  While there were several instances of gamesmanship, the relationship was fairly balanced until 2009 when the NCAA started investigating discontinuing all Native American symbols including the Utes.  That's where the school found it's most vocal proponent opposing the ban:  The Ute Indian Tribe itself.

The tribe actually stepped to the forefront of the argument against forcing the school to change its name citing the harmonious relationship between the school and itself and the school extended its benefits to tribal members attending the U.  For years the school issued vouchers to cover tuition for tribal members and then extended the program to cover fees, books, etc.  It actually had great benefit to the school allowing it to remain fairly silent  all the while taking on the role of the victim in the NCAA's argument.  The school very subtly made the case that the tribe was the one that wanted the school to continue using the name Utes, not so much the school itself.  After several weeks of wrangling the NCAA granted permission to the school citing the argument from the tribe that discontinuing the use of the name would be damaging to the tribe. 

Perhaps feeling that the school owed them one, the tribe again began to step up its demands for continued use of those trademarks belonging to it.  The school agreed to open an outreach center at tribal headquarters and attempting to quell the use of sacred symbols by fans such as headdresses, band with feathers, warchants, etc.  As a side note, some find it ironic that even after this agreement, Kyle Whittingham's mother continued to wear her headdress to games until last year.  As demands by the tribe increased the school brought the relationship to the brink by all but announcing that the 2011 Sun Bowl would be the last appearance of the D&F, to be completely replaced by the Block U which is a trademark of the school.  While nothing was ever made public, a new memorandum of understanding was issued and the D&F still adorns the uniforms of the school. 

All-in-all the relationship between the school and the tribe is all at the same time a harmonious yet tenuous one with both having exit strategies in place.  The school announced a few years back that the D&F would no longer be attached on any permanent structure such as the end zones of the stadium, the sidewalks in front of the new football and basketball facilities and other athletic structures.  The tribe, at the same time, has been publicly promoting programs it is putting in place to diversify its income.  While they have never cited the possibility of the revenue from the school drying up, the implication is strong.  With the controversy surrounding the Washington NFL team, who knows if this will once again filter its way down to the college football level?

Re: Controversial Mascot Names in the News - USPTO Takes a Stand - terry - 07-07-2014

Interesting. I did not know that Utah used to be the Redskins.