WBB: Stanford 86 Maryland 67 - Printable Version
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RE: WBB: Stanford vs Maryland, 12noon Saturday - triangle2 - 11-29-2021
(11-27-2021, 04:46 PM)chimera Wrote: That was much, much better in all respects, though with the big caveat that MD under Frese has been and still is a terrible defensive team and are now missing three key players.
I was thinking something similar. Either Frese didn't watch film or Maryland didn't execute. It should be clear now that the way to successfully disrupt Stanford is to pick up Lacie at halfcourt and vigorously resist the entry pass into the elbow. Maryland instead let Stanford set up the offense and run it which was obviously a bad bad choice. Maybe they were so short of players that they just couldn't do it. But, teams that nominally press, and harass the point guard are trying to make it difficult for the offense to run and they are taking time off the clock that would otherwise be the entry into the elbow, the off-ball movement and screens etc. I presume we'll see a lot more defensive pressure from SC and Tennessee.
Watching Bosgana blow by her defender a couple of times seemed like a really positive early sign that she could be the slasher that we're missing. She'd take a lot of pressure off of Lacie if she ever cracks the rotation. Love the Sarunus Marciulionis "drive first" mentality.
RE: WBB: Stanford 86 Maryland 67 - BostonCard - 11-29-2021
I’d love to see Stanford at full strength (Brink and Prechtel not sick, Jones fully healed) against Maryland at full strength.
BC
RE: WBB: Stanford 86 Maryland 67 - qwerty49 - 11-29-2021
(11-29-2021, 10:39 PM)BostonCard Wrote: I’d love to see Stanford at full strength (Brink and Prechtel not sick, Jones fully healed) against Maryland at full strength.
BC
Maybe in March, but you know what they say — be careful what you wish for!
Baez87 - Baez87 - 11-30-2021
Before we sell our dominating win over Maryland short, it would serve us to consider the following.
1) The fatigue/morale factor — our women were playing their third game in three days after a very disappointing loss the day before, and they were recovering from another very disappointing loss two weeks before. Many teams could have folded or imploded at this point.
During our game, Maryland had a large contingent of fans screaming and rattling the metal stands behind their bench making it more like a home game for them. MD had an embarrassing loss to NC State on Thanksgiving to atone for, and they had an extra day to prepare and rest for Stanford. Plus their fans continued to be rabid, even after the loss.
2) Playing style — it is true that we rely on a focused and persistent defense, balanced by a deep and talented offense. Maryland, on the other hand, relies on two things, running on offense and being physical at both ends of the floor. Owusu, with her upper body size and strength, behaves like a fullback running through the line like a battering ram. She doesn’t seem to care that basketball is not a contact sport. She rammed Lexie hard in the chest and knocked her to the floor because she didn’t seem to like Lexie's tight, effective defense. A credit to Lexie’s toughness, she got up and continued to play (something that we fans either marvel at or take for granted).
At times, MD players engage in brutal techniques — elbows and arms to the head and elsewhere. Their strategy is to intimidate and injure at both ends of the court. They complain and show attitude, and often argue with their coach. The Stanford women, to their credit, did not shy away from their game plan, offensively or defensively, due to this intimidating. Many teams do!
It’s not fair to say that MD doesn’t play defense, their defense is a strategy of intimidation (it’s "get out of the way, or you are meat"). (I don’t recall seeing one moving screen called, and there was a lot of contact.)
This is not just my opinion. I spoke with the parents of one of our players yesterday in the Atlanta Airport (on the way home from the Bahamas). They told me that parents of other players from other teams who have faced MD, warned them that MD players try to hurt the opposition in order to win games and that their coach doesn’t seems to discourage it. They heard one of the MD assistant coach’s yell "pussy!" after one of our players was decked and was slow to get up.
3) Short-handed team — Stanford was clearly the deeper team. MD played with injured players on the bench (their best three point shooter was out, the kind of player, however, that we often neutralize with our superior defense). We were also on the short end (Haley was recovering from a knee problem, Cam from a food-related illness and a whack to the head so hard she had to take herself out of the game, and Ashten Prechtal had a food-related illness and didn’t play).
MD beat #6 Baylor 79-76 less than a week before our Bahamas' tournament with the same lineup that they used against us — Owusu, Reese, Collins, Bibby, and Sellers.
It’s true that we have a deeper team than Maryland, and that our team played lights-out offense on Saturday against MD. However, Tara is still in the process of evaluating our players and assessing team-chemistry among various lineups. It’s also true that depth pays off over a long season, and the various permutations that we can muster against our opposition bodes well for us in the future. Maryland cannot, at this point of the season, say the same for their team.
4) Winning margin — "we only won by 19 points…" or did we? At the end of the third quarter the score was Stanford 74, MD 46, a complete rout. (Last week MD led #6 Baylor after three quarters, 64-59.) Our third-quarter score over MD (75-46) was an unbelievable score for a #7 ranked team playing a #2, or for any game. Then, in the fourth quarter, we cleared the bench and let everyone play. MD did not sub out.
We accomplished our amazing third quarter score in spite of MD's dirty, intimidating play for which one technical was called (Owusu's head-down driving charge that flattened Lexie) and another that should have been called (Cam bringing down a high rebound only to be fore-armed in the head well after the rebound was secured). I actually thought the second tech was called, but it was either overlooked or missed by the officials.
So… Celebrate long and hard, fans! This win was no fluke. It was hard-earned. We have enormous potential with this team. Each game must be played and lessons need to be learned, but this is a talented, hard working, and well-connected team.
We need to celebrate fully what is happening now and what is materializing right before our eyes. There is no other choice but to move into the future, one game at a time. But as we move, we can appreciate the hard work and dedication that these young women bring to the game now. And hey! We get to watch, and marvel, and cheer our team as long as our voices last! What more can we, as fans, ask?
RE: Baez87 - biketoc - 11-30-2021
What a great write up! Thanks Baez87.
RE: WBB: Stanford 86 Maryland 67 - BobK - 11-30-2021
Love it Baez. Thank you
RE: Baez87 - teejers1 - 11-30-2021
(11-30-2021, 01:29 PM)Baez87 Wrote: Before we sell our dominating win over Maryland short, it would serve us to consider the following.
1) The fatigue/morale factor — our women were playing their third game in three days after a very disappointing loss the day before, and they were recovering from another very disappointing loss two weeks before. Many teams could have folded or imploded at this point.
During our game, Maryland had a large contingent of fans screaming and rattling the metal stands behind their bench making it more like a home game for them. MD had an embarrassing loss to NC State on Thanksgiving to atone for, and they had an extra day to prepare and rest for Stanford. Plus their fans continued to be rabid, even after the loss.
2) Playing style — it is true that we rely on a focused and persistent defense, balanced by a deep and talented offense. Maryland, on the other hand, relies on two things, running on offense and being physical at both ends of the floor. Owusu, with her upper body size and strength, behaves like a fullback running through the line like a battering ram. She doesn’t seem to care that basketball is not a contact sport. She rammed Lexie hard in the chest and knocked her to the floor because she didn’t seem to like Lexie's tight, effective defense. A credit to Lexie’s toughness, she got up and continued to play (something that we fans either marvel at or take for granted).
At times, MD players engage in brutal techniques — elbows and arms to the head and elsewhere. Their strategy is to intimidate and injure at both ends of the court. They complain and show attitude, and often argue with their coach. The Stanford women, to their credit, did not shy away from their game plan, offensively or defensively, due to this intimidating. Many teams do!
It’s not fair to say that MD doesn’t play defense, their defense is a strategy of intimidation (it’s "get out of the way, or you are meat"). (I don’t recall seeing one moving screen called, and there was a lot of contact.)
This is not just my opinion. I spoke with the parents of one of our players yesterday in the Atlanta Airport (on the way home from the Bahamas). They told me that parents of other players from other teams who have faced MD, warned them that MD players try to hurt the opposition in order to win games and that their coach doesn’t seems to discourage it. They heard one of the MD assistant coach’s yell "pussy!" after one of our players was decked and was slow to get up.
3) Short-handed team — Stanford was clearly the deeper team. MD played with injured players on the bench (their best three point shooter was out, the kind of player, however, that we often neutralize with our superior defense). We were also on the short end (Haley was recovering from a knee problem, Cam from a food-related illness and a whack to the head so hard she had to take herself out of the game, and Ashten Prechtal had a food-related illness and didn’t play).
MD beat #6 Baylor 79-76 less than a week before our Bahamas' tournament with the same lineup that they used against us — Owusu, Reese, Collins, Bibby, and Sellers.
It’s true that we have a deeper team than Maryland, and that our team played lights-out offense on Saturday against MD. However, Tara is still in the process of evaluating our players and assessing team-chemistry among various lineups. It’s also true that depth pays off over a long season, and the various permutations that we can muster against our opposition bodes well for us in the future. Maryland cannot, at this point of the season, say the same for their team.
4) Winning margin — "we only won by 19 points…" or did we? At the end of the third quarter the score was Stanford 74, MD 46, a complete rout. (Last week MD led #6 Baylor after three quarters, 64-59.) Our third-quarter score over MD (75-46) was an unbelievable score for a #7 ranked team playing a #2, or for any game. Then, in the fourth quarter, we cleared the bench and let everyone play. MD did not sub out.
We accomplished our amazing third quarter score in spite of MD's dirty, intimidating play for which one technical was called (Owusu's head-down driving charge that flattened Lexie) and another that should have been called (Cam bringing down a high rebound only to be fore-armed in the head well after the rebound was secured). I actually thought the second tech was called, but it was either overlooked or missed by the officials.
So… Celebrate long and hard, fans! This win was no fluke. It was hard-earned. We have enormous potential with this team. Each game must be played and lessons need to be learned, but this is a talented, hard working, and well-connected team.
We need to celebrate fully what is happening now and what is materializing right before our eyes. There is no other choice but to move into the future, one game at a time. But as we move, we can appreciate the hard work and dedication that these young women bring to the game now. And hey! We get to watch, and marvel, and cheer our team as long as our voices last! What more can we, as fans, ask?
1. I don't think anyone opined that Stanford's win was a fluke - only that MD, at full strength in March, will present a tougher challenge;
2. I'll defer to your first-hand observations, which are superior to what the rest of us see on TV/streaming - but would also caution you to be careful with assertions that the opposing team's strategy is to "injure" the opponent. Playing physical ball? Intimidating ball? Sure. Being reckless with fouls? . . . even that I might buy (especially if fatigue sets in). It can be a small jump from there to "intent to injure," but there is a difference.
3. Sounds to me like a particularly satisfying W for the Cardinal players and fans, given the opposing players' and fans' attitudes. So congrats to you for soaking that one in first-hand.
4. Despite my post-game comments - some of which may be critical of coaching - I actually expect this loaded team to win a ton of games. The issue - or potential issue - as we've already seen, is with opponents whose guard play pressures the ball full (or even 2/3 or 1/2 court). Can our offense still flow and get the preferred looks in those situations? We will find out as the season progresses.
And I'm looking forward to watching a lot of it in person.
RE: Baez87 - crackpot - 11-30-2021
(11-30-2021, 06:31 PM)teejers1 Wrote: 2. I'll defer to your first-hand observations, which are superior to what the rest of us see on TV/streaming - but would also caution you to be careful with assertions that the opposing team's strategy is to "injure" the opponent. Playing physical ball? Intimidating ball? Sure. Being reckless with fouls? . . . even that I might buy (especially if fatigue sets in). It can be a small jump from there to "intent to injure," but there is a difference.
Did you see the game? Did you see what Owusu did to Lexie? Hard to call that reckless or playing physical ball. An attack like that would be flagged as a personal foul in football.
Baez87 - Baez87 - 11-30-2021
My impression of the MD style of play was that it was geared to intimidation. Some people intimidate with bluster, some take it to right up to one's nose, other are willing to draw blood to make their point. I observed a few situations in which our Stanford players were unwilling to be intimidated, but weren’t retaliatory. In those situations, MD took it to the next step — they were willing to bloody our noses. It didn’t work. The referees controlled the game. Owusu and another player got four fouls each early on in the first half. Owusu is a very skilled player and didn’t get another foul for the rest of the game — she knew exactly what she was doing, and she backed off. The other player did not, she fouled again and had to sit on the bench for the rest of the game. Our players, on the other hand, are tough and well disciplined! I gained an added degree of respect for them that day.
As I said, the parents of one of our starters were warned by other parents with players in the Big 10 that their child was in danger of physical harm in playing MD; and they were rightfully concerned. It’s hard to respect coach Brenda Frese, because she could stop it!
RE: Baez87 - teejers1 - 11-30-2021
(11-30-2021, 07:44 PM)crackpot Wrote:(11-30-2021, 06:31 PM)teejers1 Wrote: 2. I'll defer to your first-hand observations, which are superior to what the rest of us see on TV/streaming - but would also caution you to be careful with assertions that the opposing team's strategy is to "injure" the opponent. Playing physical ball? Intimidating ball? Sure. Being reckless with fouls? . . . even that I might buy (especially if fatigue sets in). It can be a small jump from there to "intent to injure," but there is a difference.
Did you see the game? Did you see what Owusu did to Lexie? Hard to call that reckless or playing physical ball. An attack like that would be flagged as a personal foul in football.
Yes, I saw it.
You're going to see more of those kinds of plays this season. They happen.
People - even highly skilled players - can play out of control at times.
RE: Baez87 - martyup - 12-01-2021
(11-30-2021, 11:58 PM)teejers1 Wrote: People - even highly skilled players - can play out of control at times.
Yeah, like Battey on the Colorado mens team. Just ask Oscar DaSilva.
RE: Baez87 - teejers1 - 12-01-2021
(12-01-2021, 12:30 PM)martyup Wrote:(11-30-2021, 11:58 PM)teejers1 Wrote: People - even highly skilled players - can play out of control at times.
Yeah, like Battey on the Colorado mens team. Just ask Oscar DaSilva.
Or the two Cardinal players he knocked over in the game the other day (no whistle).
It happens.
RE: WBB: Stanford 86 Maryland 67 - M T - 12-04-2021
The replays of the Stanford WBB games are up at FloHoops.
I haven't noticed any problems with the playback as I did on what was up initially. (No, they didn't have the USF game from the beginning.)
Nov 25 Stanford vs Indiana
Nov 26 Stanford vs South Florida
Nov 27 Stanford vs Maryland