Outside Topic NBA Discussion - Printable Version
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RE: NBA Playoffs - Leftcoast - 05-27-2022
Over paying for late prime year stars has marked the end of many NBA dynasties. I'm enheartened the Warriors have managed as well as they have this year with young legs backing up the older ones but I have no idea how they will pay all these guys. Trading one of the prime players is the logical choice but how the heck do you trade Klay during a possible banner run without destroying the entire chemistry that feeds this team?
Lacob and Myers have tough, tough decisions to make.
RE: NBA Playoffs - TrumpCard - 05-27-2022
(05-27-2022, 11:15 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I know it sounds berserk and sacrilegious, but...
The Warriors should trade Klay Thompson if they want the new core to have a championship chance, while the young guys are still on rookie deals.
They simply must get under the luxury tax threshold, not only to afford the roster, but to be in position to sign a big 20-something Free Agent to replace what Klay provided to a degree, maybe even Wiggins if he needs to go too.
If they don't trade a big contract they will be facing a $500M payroll when tax is factored in. That's just not going to happen.
I don't understand the intricacies of NBA salary cap management to know exactly what the options are, but it sure seems like a monumental challenge to figure it all out given all the variables that must be juggled.
I don't think that'll happen this summer because the team won't give up its shot at a title and because I don't expect the Warriors to get anything of value in return for Klay given his contract and injury history. Maybe part of the solution will be trading Klay next summer when he'll have only 1 year left on an expiring deal. A team under the tax threshhold might be willing to pay Klay for a year to get a first round pick to help with a re-build, sort of like what the Warriors were able to do with Igoudala's contract a couple of years ago. The key would be timing the eventual rebuild so that it doesn't line up with the year that the Warriors give up that first round pick.
I also could see the Warriors letting Looney and/or Payton walk this summer. (Porter is for sure too expensive.) Looney and Porter are very solid players who would help this team, but a championship level core can attract veteran role players who are willing to play for the league minimum.
RE: NBA Playoffs - DC 86 - 05-27-2022
(05-27-2022, 11:15 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I know it sounds berserk and sacrilegious, but...
The Warriors should trade Klay Thompson if they want the new core to have a championship chance, while the young guys are still on rookie deals.
They simply must get under the luxury tax threshold, not only to afford the roster, but to be in position to sign a big 20-something Free Agent to replace what Klay provided to a degree, maybe even Wiggins if he needs to go too.
If they don't trade a big contract they will be facing a $500M payroll when tax is factored in. That's just not going to happen.
I don't understand the intricacies of NBA salary cap management to know exactly what the options are, but it sure seems like a monumental challenge to figure it all out given all the variables that must be juggled.
The rules are complex but the NBA isn't like MLB where you can simply dump a high salaried player. In general salaries have to match up in order to comply with the league's trade rules. Of course you can trade for expiring contracts to play with the timeline, but simply trading a high salaried player for draft picks and/or underpaid young players (on their first contracts) isn't an easy plan to execute, as it is in baseball.
The options for trading Klay Thompson are basically to get an inferior player who is earning a similar salary but on a shorter contract, e.g. Russell Westbrook or John Wall. I don't see the point of doing something like that, assuming you're still in contending mode, as the Warriors are clearly are.
The Warriors don't really have room to maneuver, due to their commitments to Curry, Klay and Green. They are simply way too far above the cap. They can use their Bird rights to keep Wiggins or lose him when his contract expires, but there's no mechanism to really replace him with another player of his caliber in the open market. If they let him go they are still going to be over the cap and unable to sign a top free agent.
The Warriors have shown a willingness to go way over the cap, which I'm sure will continue. So ultimately they have to hope their core stays healthy and that they continue to draft well, because a wholesale reset in the short term isn't a viable option under the NBA's rules.
RE: NBA Playoffs - TrumpCard - 05-27-2022
(05-27-2022, 01:45 PM)DC 86 Wrote: The rules are complex but the NBA isn't like MLB where you can simply dump a high salaried player. In general salaries have to match up in order to comply with the league's trade rules. Of course you can trade for expiring contracts to play with the timeline, but simply trading a high salaried player for draft picks and/or underpaid young players (on their first contracts) isn't an easy plan to execute, as it is in baseball.
The options for trading Klay Thompson are basically to get an inferior player who is earning a similar salary but on a shorter contract, e.g. Russell Westbrook or John Wall. I don't see the point of doing something like that, assuming you're still in contending mode, as the Warriors are clearly are.
I see two options for trading Klay:
--First, like you said, trade Klay this summer for someone with 1 year left on his contract instead of 2 like Klay has. That in theory gives the Warriors a player to help them with their shot at a title next year, and then allows the Warriors the flexibility to re-sign Poole and Wiggins next summer when Klay otherwise would have eaten up that flexibility. Just tough to execute that without upsetting team chemistry, and equally tough to ensure that the team is getting a sufficiently high quality player in the deal. Though, if LeBron wants out of the mess in LA, I don't think the Warriors would turn down that opportunity, even if it cost Klay plus a couple of first round picks!
--Second, trade Klay next year, when he's the one with the expiring contract, to one of the few teams who can bring him on without returning equal salary. That would cost a first round pick (if the opportunity is even available, which may not be the case).
RE: NBA Playoffs - Sam Leopold - 05-27-2022
Well, the Eastern finals is going 7.
If you're the Warriors, who would you rather face?
leftcoast - Leftcoast - 05-27-2022
I’d rather play Miami. I’m not sure we have enough size and plus defenders to match up with Boston. On the other hand I think we have the offense to carve up the Heat. No one on the team will say it but they’ll all be Heat fans when they meet for their final game.
RE: NBA Playoffs - BostonCard - 05-27-2022
(05-26-2022, 07:09 PM)PAsportsfan Wrote: This is for BC.
Spotted Shaw in court side seats tonight.
Why is it for me?
BC
RE: leftcoast - old spanish trail - 05-27-2022
(05-27-2022, 08:58 PM)Leftcoast Wrote: I’d rather play Miami. I’m not sure we have enough size and plus defenders to match up with Boston. On the other hand I think we have the offense to carve up the Heat. No one on the team will say it but they’ll all be Heat fans when they meet for their final game.
Yep
RE: NBA Playoffs - OutsiderFan - 05-28-2022
ECF Game 6 is why I never bet on sports.
Boston was -420 on the Money Line, one of the biggest numbers I've ever seen. Miami was +320. Yet the line was "only" Boston -8, which I thought if the Money Line was so big, shouldn't the spread be at least -10?
Anyway, I just watched the highlights on YouTube this morning without knowing who won. I got the feeling Celtics were in trouble seeing all the Heat players making shots in the first half highlights. They looked like a team that didn't even belong in the playoffs, let alone a championship contender the last two games.
Even if the Celtics win Game 7, hard to believe they can beat the Warriors if they can't beat the Heat at home in a close out Game 6. I already believe the Heat don't matchup well against the Warriors, so I'm starting to believe the Warriors might actually capture their 4th NBA championship in 8 years.
Wish I could be at Chase Center on Thursday. It's gonna be electric.
RE: NBA Playoffs - gailtate - 05-28-2022
(05-28-2022, 05:23 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: ECF Game 6 is why I never bet on sports.
Boston was -420 on the Money Line, one of the biggest numbers I've ever seen. Miami was +320. Yet the line was "only" Boston -8, which I thought if the Money Line was so big, shouldn't the spread be at least -10?
Anyway, I just watched the highlights on YouTube this morning without knowing who won. I got the feeling Celtics were in trouble seeing all the Heat players making shots in the first half highlights. They looked like a team that didn't even belong in the playoffs, let alone a championship contender the last two games.
Even if the Celtics win Game 7, hard to believe they can beat the Warriors if they can't beat the Heat at home in a close out Game 6. I already believe the Heat don't matchup well against the Warriors, so I'm starting to believe the Warriors might actually capture their 4th NBA championship in 8 years.
Wish I could be at Chase Center on Thursday. It's gonna be electric.
Warriors are a helluva lot more than one guy. They have everything it takes to win it all.
RE: NBA Playoffs - BostonCard - 05-28-2022
According to this conversion a money line of -420/+320 converts to a spread just under 7.5 to 9, so a spread of 8 looks about right.
Caveat emptor, I don’t gamble either.
BC
RE: NBA Playoffs - BostonCard - 05-29-2022
Warriors get Boston, starting Thursday.
BC
lex24 - lex24 - 05-30-2022
(05-29-2022, 10:26 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Warriors get Boston, starting Thursday.
BC
Now, Charles, you want to talk about “insufferable fans…”.
Get a big kick out of Barkley. Still gets it’s supposed to be fun.
RE: NBA Playoffs - Mick - 05-30-2022
Celtics have 17 NBA championships, tied with the Lakers. Warriors have 7 championships.
Celtics and Warriors split their two games this season:
* W's won 111-107 in Boston, shot 16/46 from 3, 12 turnovers, 9 steals, 45 rebs, 27 assts. Moody started, Iguodala played 28 mins. Klay Thompson was out. Wiggins (27), Curry (30) and Iguodala (12) were the only players to score in double figures. Curry fouled out. Celtics had 45 rebs, 20 assists, shot 36.6% from 3 pt range, 5 steals and 16 turnovers. No one fouled out.
* W's were obliterated, 110-88 at the Chase Center six weeks ago. Draymond didn't start and had a poor game. Klay was 1/11 and the warriors were 11/48 from three point range. Curry only played 13 minutes because of the injury from Marcus Smart. In that game, looooots of playing time went to Kuminga, Toscano-Anderson, Damion Lee, and Quinndary Witherspoon. They had 38 rebounds, 19 assists, 8 steals and just 8 turnovers. Poole had 29, Klay had 18. No one else in double figures. 4th lowest score of the season by the W's. Starting that night, the Warriors lost 7 of 8.
Celtics gave up lowest points per game this season in the NBA, scoring the 12th most. Warriors scored the 15th most, giving up the 3rd fewest points. Get ready for a defensive series.
Last season, Steph dropped 47 and 38 points on the Celtics. This season, Marcus Smart, defensive PoY vs. Steph Curry. Great matchup. He injured Steph earlier this year by rolling into him.
Stephen Curry gets injured by Marcus Smart & Steve Kerr wasn't happy ? - YouTube
Celtics have a very strong defense when everyone is healthy. Warriors score a lot in the paint (avg. 50 ppg in the paint in the playoffs). Celtics are very switch heavy, should be interesting.
In terms of tough shotmaking from deep, Warriors were best in the NBA in the regular season, Celtics were 20th.
Jordan Poole, X Factor. Needs to be consistent and much better on defense. Be nice to have GP2 back, supposedly he, Otto Porter AND Iguodala may return during the series, perhaps during Game 1. Marcus Smart and Robert Williams have both missed playoff games with injuries.
Derrick White is the best off the bench for the Celtics.
Prior to this season, Celtics won five straight against the Warriors.
All Celtics starters played 41+ minutes last night. Curious to see what effects the extra days of rest will have for the Warriors.
Last time Warriors and Celtics met in the NBA finals was 1964 when Bill Russell's Celtics beat Wilt Chamberlain's Warriors in five games.
Warriors went 12-4 through the West Conference semifinals. Celtics went 12-6, with the Heat and Bucks taking both series to 7 games.
I think the only way the Celtics win is if they injure two or more Warriors starters. I expect a very physical series.
Warriors currently -155, Celtics currently +130. W's favored.
RE: NBA Playoffs - OutsiderFan - 05-31-2022
The X-factor in the NBA Finals is Gary Payton II, IMO.
I don't think there is any area you can say the Warriors have been exposed in these playoffs. But I do think the ECF exposed a weakness in the Celtics. That is Jaylen Brown's ball handling and propensity to turn the ball over. Actually, both Brown and Tatum were exposed in this regard by the Heat.
There are few better on ball defenders than GP2. If Victor Oladipo is going to give Brown fits, GP2 certainly will. And apparently, Andre Iguodala is practicing this week, along with Otto Porter Jr. All three are defensive-oriented bodies the W's can throw out there to extend their bench depth.
If these guys are available, the Warriors have more depth. The Celtics can make up for this by having rim protection with Robert Williams that the W's don't have. Frankly, my belief in the C's winning it all has been predicated on the difference Robert Williams provides. But I've seen enough from these teams in the playoffs to think Gary Payton II might be the real difference.
Should be a great NBA Finals!
RE: NBA Playoffs - Phogge - 05-31-2022
Since the Grizz were eliminated I just watch the Charles and Shaq show and then go back to Law and Order reruns. What a diff compared to the pre/post NFL shows.
Disappointed in the new Law and Order. Dick Wolf held out a long time shooting Super 35 but the new show looks like digital and the Dancy character is a stiff. Miss Merkerson too.
RE: NBA Playoffs - TrumpCard - 05-31-2022
I’ve read that the recovery time for a fractured elbow is at least 6 weeks. Anyone know if there’s some fancy treatment athletes can receive to speed up the recovery time? Otherwise, it seems like a pipe dream to predict that Payton will play much of this series.
RE: NBA Playoffs - OutsiderFan - 05-31-2022
(05-31-2022, 09:04 AM)TrumpCard Wrote: I’ve read that the recovery time for a fractured elbow is at least 6 weeks. Anyone know if there’s some fancy treatment athletes can receive to speed up the recovery time? Otherwise, it seems like a pipe dream to predict that Payton will play much of this series.
At the time of the injury, the Warriors said 4-6 weeks, and Payton II is practicing this week. Then there is this...
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1531698304857292805?cxt=HHwWioCywcbf18EqAAAA[/tweet]
RE: NBA Playoffs - OutsiderFan - 06-02-2022
OK, let's get those NBA Finals opinions in...
Who wins?
How many games?
Finals MVP?
Unsung hero?
I was going to pick the Celtics, but I don't like how many people are getting on the C's bandwagon. Moreover, their struggles with Miami and Robert Williams being hampered gives me doubts. And now that I know my unsung hero Gary Payton II is gonna play, I feel I can pick the W's to win because I have reason to believe they will.
Warriors
6
Thompson
GP2
Basically, if the W's are good enough to win the LOT, they won't need 7 games.
RE: NBA Playoffs - Leftcoast - 06-02-2022
I like your pick - Warriors in 6.
I'm predicting the series will swing on close games where the outcome hinges on which team performs in the playoff pressure cooker and the Warriors core has proven they have ice water in their veins during those critical moments. I like the experience and individual playmaking of the Warriors in those situations.
One quibble, if the Warriors win it will be Curry that gets the MVP with any decent performance. The emotion and media narrative gives Curry the edge in any close race. (And, if he doesn't have a decent performance the Warriors won't win!). Thompson will have his games but the Boston D will hold him down in others, I don't think he can be the defining player against Boston.