CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Printable Version
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Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 01:52 PM)AthleticsDynasty link Wrote:The perfect example is Myles Jack vs Jaylon Smith. Viewed as the top 2 LBers in the draft coming in to the year.I don't see this as a valid comparison. Pre-injury Smith was universally regarded as the best player at his position, listed as a top-5 selection in every mock draft and player ranking. Pre-injury Jack was highly regarded but also questioned as a player without a clear position, a great athlete but undersized LB, and he was all over the place in mock drafts and rankings, ranging from top-10 to second round. Obviously there is no way to know definitively, but I'm pretty sure that Smith dropped way more (and lost way, way more money) than Jack due to his draft tumble.
Jack gets injured in September and leaves the team
Smith plays and gets a major injury(thats more than a full year setback) in Votre Dame's bowl game
Yet Smith was drafted ahead of Jack
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 01:52 PM)AthleticsDynasty link Wrote:The perfect example is Myles Jack vs Jaylon Smith. Viewed as the top 2 LBers in the draft coming in to the year.I don't see this as a valid comparison. Pre-injury Smith was universally regarded as the best player at his position, listed as a top-5 selection in every mock draft and player ranking. Pre-injury Jack was highly regarded but also questioned as a player without a clear position, a great athlete but undersized LB, and he was all over the place in mock drafts and rankings, ranging from top-10 to second round. Obviously there is no way to know definitively, but I'm pretty sure that Smith dropped way more (and lost way, way more money) than Jack due to his draft tumble.
Jack gets injured in September and leaves the team
Smith plays and gets a major injury(thats more than a full year setback) in Votre Dame's bowl game
Yet Smith was drafted ahead of Jack
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-19-2016
I've been reading that Christian would be a late first round pick, and with a great combine he could slip into the Top 15. Okay, let's see that happen. CBS estimated McCaffrey at #17 to Oakland, bleacher report had him at #27, I saw him going to Philly mid-first-round, ESPN thinks Ravens at #24, Sports Illustrated has him going at #18.
So let's see what happens. His pre-announcement estimates from reputable organizations run #17 to #27. Seems appropriate, save his bowl game decision.
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-19-2016
I've been reading that Christian would be a late first round pick, and with a great combine he could slip into the Top 15. Okay, let's see that happen. CBS estimated McCaffrey at #17 to Oakland, bleacher report had him at #27, I saw him going to Philly mid-first-round, ESPN thinks Ravens at #24, Sports Illustrated has him going at #18.
So let's see what happens. His pre-announcement estimates from reputable organizations run #17 to #27. Seems appropriate, save his bowl game decision.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - JohnR34231 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:03 PM)Spiny_Norman link Wrote:What is McCaffrey saving himself for - private workouts? the NFL combine? Wouldn't his potential future employers in the NFL give equal if not greater weight to McCaffrey playing a real game as part of his job interview or audition?
I heard he was saving himself for marriage. :)
Seriously though, I'm sure he feels that the NFL has seen him in enough games that the upside of them seeing him in one more is not worth the downside of him possibly being injured.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - JohnR34231 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:03 PM)Spiny_Norman link Wrote:What is McCaffrey saving himself for - private workouts? the NFL combine? Wouldn't his potential future employers in the NFL give equal if not greater weight to McCaffrey playing a real game as part of his job interview or audition?
I heard he was saving himself for marriage. :)
Seriously though, I'm sure he feels that the NFL has seen him in enough games that the upside of them seeing him in one more is not worth the downside of him possibly being injured.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - AthleticsDynasty - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:01 PM)Hank 91 link Wrote:There are few things easier than criticizing another's decision. I don't see the point in comparing McCaffrey to those who came before, because there isn't really a comparison that makes sense. Also, which do you think would have the bigger impact, Andrew Luck skipping the Fiesta Bowl or McCaffrey skipping the Sun Bowl? The relative importance of the two games can't be compared, just as Luck's importance can't be compared to McCaffrey. I'd argue that Christian McCaffrey is the greatest player in the history of Stanford football, but I bet the offense is just fine without him against North Carolina.
He's not letting his teammates down. In fact, I bet the people in that locker room get this more than any of us do. Most of them already have a Rose Bowl ring thanks in part to his efforts. More important than that, most of them have no opportunity to play in the NFL. In a sense, he'll be playing for them when he gets to the league next year. I made this comparison in an email to friends this morning. I like the fact that fate put me in the same freshman dorm as Cory Booker, and I like when his name comes up in conversation and I can mention that he's a friend of mine. If he's elected President one day, I'll actually feel as if a part of me is in the White House. I bet it's the same with McCaffrey's teammates, but to an even greater degree. Five or ten years from now when they're watching him on TV, they won't talk about the 2016 Sun Bowl, they'll tell stories about the 2016 Rose Bowl. I guarantee it.
I am sorry but you're delusional if you think guys like Chris Harrell and Luke Kaumatule who have committed themselves to Stanford football for 5 years aren't extremely sour. Its almost assuredly their last organized football game of the rest of their lives and will likely weep before, during and after the game yet Christian deems the game not worth an extra month of individual draft prep?
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - AthleticsDynasty - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:01 PM)Hank 91 link Wrote:There are few things easier than criticizing another's decision. I don't see the point in comparing McCaffrey to those who came before, because there isn't really a comparison that makes sense. Also, which do you think would have the bigger impact, Andrew Luck skipping the Fiesta Bowl or McCaffrey skipping the Sun Bowl? The relative importance of the two games can't be compared, just as Luck's importance can't be compared to McCaffrey. I'd argue that Christian McCaffrey is the greatest player in the history of Stanford football, but I bet the offense is just fine without him against North Carolina.
He's not letting his teammates down. In fact, I bet the people in that locker room get this more than any of us do. Most of them already have a Rose Bowl ring thanks in part to his efforts. More important than that, most of them have no opportunity to play in the NFL. In a sense, he'll be playing for them when he gets to the league next year. I made this comparison in an email to friends this morning. I like the fact that fate put me in the same freshman dorm as Cory Booker, and I like when his name comes up in conversation and I can mention that he's a friend of mine. If he's elected President one day, I'll actually feel as if a part of me is in the White House. I bet it's the same with McCaffrey's teammates, but to an even greater degree. Five or ten years from now when they're watching him on TV, they won't talk about the 2016 Sun Bowl, they'll tell stories about the 2016 Rose Bowl. I guarantee it.
I am sorry but you're delusional if you think guys like Chris Harrell and Luke Kaumatule who have committed themselves to Stanford football for 5 years aren't extremely sour. Its almost assuredly their last organized football game of the rest of their lives and will likely weep before, during and after the game yet Christian deems the game not worth an extra month of individual draft prep?
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - AthleticsDynasty - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:02 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=AthleticsDynasty link=topic=16307.msg183040#msg183040 date=1482179774]And if he plays poorly against a porous NC defense it hurts his stock. And if he suffers an injury it dramatically hurts his stock. Considering the range of outcomes it is a rational decision.[/quote]
Yes running all over UNC(like everyone thinks he would have) would of improved his stock. Probably not much but it dominant performances always help.
A poor performance would change his stock anymore than a dominant one would.
As for injury I'm going to assume Christian won't be sitting on his couch for a month so I doubt there is any significant increase in injury risk.
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - AthleticsDynasty - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:02 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=AthleticsDynasty link=topic=16307.msg183040#msg183040 date=1482179774]And if he plays poorly against a porous NC defense it hurts his stock. And if he suffers an injury it dramatically hurts his stock. Considering the range of outcomes it is a rational decision.[/quote]
Yes running all over UNC(like everyone thinks he would have) would of improved his stock. Probably not much but it dominant performances always help.
A poor performance would change his stock anymore than a dominant one would.
As for injury I'm going to assume Christian won't be sitting on his couch for a month so I doubt there is any significant increase in injury risk.
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:25 PM)AthleticsDynasty link Wrote:As for injury I'm going to assume Christian won't be sitting on his couch for a month so I doubt there is any significant increase in injury risk.You don't see a significant increase in risk playing in a live football game as opposed to running sprints and lifting weights at a training camp? I am familiar with Jaylon Smith, Willis McGahee, Marcus Lattimore et al but can't think of any players who suffered devastating injuries during combine prep.
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - DC 86 - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:25 PM)AthleticsDynasty link Wrote:As for injury I'm going to assume Christian won't be sitting on his couch for a month so I doubt there is any significant increase in injury risk.You don't see a significant increase in risk playing in a live football game as opposed to running sprints and lifting weights at a training camp? I am familiar with Jaylon Smith, Willis McGahee, Marcus Lattimore et al but can't think of any players who suffered devastating injuries during combine prep.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Goose - 12-19-2016
I do not agree with lots of the folks who say that CMac is being selfish. For all we know, Shaw asked him to step away and give the other running backs the practice reps, given that he will not be around next year. Do we really think that playing in this game would hurt his draft preparation? Avoiding injury is important for sure, but CMac has shown the willingness to mix it up with the best of them. I don't think he is afraid. I think that both he and the team know he is logically gone, and it is time for Next Man Up. We have no way to know, but I think this interpretation fits the known facts as well as any.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - Goose - 12-19-2016
I do not agree with lots of the folks who say that CMac is being selfish. For all we know, Shaw asked him to step away and give the other running backs the practice reps, given that he will not be around next year. Do we really think that playing in this game would hurt his draft preparation? Avoiding injury is important for sure, but CMac has shown the willingness to mix it up with the best of them. I don't think he is afraid. I think that both he and the team know he is logically gone, and it is time for Next Man Up. We have no way to know, but I think this interpretation fits the known facts as well as any.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - 76lsjumb - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:01 PM)Hank 91 link Wrote:There are few things easier than criticizing another's decision. I don't see the point in comparing McCaffrey to those who came before, because there isn't really a comparison that makes sense. Also, which do you think would have the bigger impact, Andrew Luck skipping the Fiesta Bowl or McCaffrey skipping the Sun Bowl? The relative importance of the two games can't be compared, just as Luck's importance can't be compared to McCaffrey. I'd argue that Christian McCaffrey is the greatest player in the history of Stanford football, but I bet the offense is just fine without him against North Carolina.
He's not letting his teammates down. In fact, I bet the people in that locker room get this more than any of us do. Most of them already have a Rose Bowl ring thanks in part to his efforts. More important than that, most of them have no opportunity to play in the NFL. In a sense, he'll be playing for them when he gets to the league next year. I made this comparison in an email to friends this morning. I like the fact that fate put me in the same freshman dorm as Cory Booker, and I like when his name comes up in conversation and I can mention that he's a friend of mine. If he's elected President one day, I'll actually feel as if a part of me is in the White House. I bet it's the same with McCaffrey's teammates, but to an even greater degree. Five or ten years from now when they're watching him on TV, they won't talk about the 2016 Sun Bowl, they'll tell stories about the 2016 Rose Bowl. I guarantee it.
Then why did he say what he said in his statement less than two weeks ago? Otherwise put, how exactly does deciding not to play amount to working "as hard as [he] can to make [victory in the Sun Bowl] possible"?
Darrin Nelson is the greatest running back in the history of Stanford football. CMac probably could have been, but he made the choice not to be. That's a fine, rational, perfectly acceptable choice on his part. But, it's a choice that forfeited the opportunity to replace Darrin Nelson, at least in my view. I hope it works out for CMac.
Also, per this article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-dam-is-about-to-burst-on-college-players-like-christian-mccaffrey-opting-to-skip-bowl-games-174654560.html?hl=1&noRedirect=1
perhaps we won't have to worry as much any more about the allegation that "Stanford fans don't travel well" negatively affecting Bowl selections, if it's now going to be a concern whether Stanford PLAYERS don't travel well...
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - 76lsjumb - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:01 PM)Hank 91 link Wrote:There are few things easier than criticizing another's decision. I don't see the point in comparing McCaffrey to those who came before, because there isn't really a comparison that makes sense. Also, which do you think would have the bigger impact, Andrew Luck skipping the Fiesta Bowl or McCaffrey skipping the Sun Bowl? The relative importance of the two games can't be compared, just as Luck's importance can't be compared to McCaffrey. I'd argue that Christian McCaffrey is the greatest player in the history of Stanford football, but I bet the offense is just fine without him against North Carolina.
He's not letting his teammates down. In fact, I bet the people in that locker room get this more than any of us do. Most of them already have a Rose Bowl ring thanks in part to his efforts. More important than that, most of them have no opportunity to play in the NFL. In a sense, he'll be playing for them when he gets to the league next year. I made this comparison in an email to friends this morning. I like the fact that fate put me in the same freshman dorm as Cory Booker, and I like when his name comes up in conversation and I can mention that he's a friend of mine. If he's elected President one day, I'll actually feel as if a part of me is in the White House. I bet it's the same with McCaffrey's teammates, but to an even greater degree. Five or ten years from now when they're watching him on TV, they won't talk about the 2016 Sun Bowl, they'll tell stories about the 2016 Rose Bowl. I guarantee it.
Then why did he say what he said in his statement less than two weeks ago? Otherwise put, how exactly does deciding not to play amount to working "as hard as [he] can to make [victory in the Sun Bowl] possible"?
Darrin Nelson is the greatest running back in the history of Stanford football. CMac probably could have been, but he made the choice not to be. That's a fine, rational, perfectly acceptable choice on his part. But, it's a choice that forfeited the opportunity to replace Darrin Nelson, at least in my view. I hope it works out for CMac.
Also, per this article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-dam-is-about-to-burst-on-college-players-like-christian-mccaffrey-opting-to-skip-bowl-games-174654560.html?hl=1&noRedirect=1
perhaps we won't have to worry as much any more about the allegation that "Stanford fans don't travel well" negatively affecting Bowl selections, if it's now going to be a concern whether Stanford PLAYERS don't travel well...
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:34 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=AthleticsDynasty link=topic=16307.msg183060#msg183060 date=1482182735]You don't see a significant increase in risk playing in a live football game as opposed to running sprints and lifting weights at a training camp? I am familiar with Jaylon Smith, Willis McGahee, Marcus Lattimore et al but can't think of any players who suffered devastating injuries during combine prep.
As for injury I'm going to assume Christian won't be sitting on his couch for a month so I doubt there is any significant increase in injury risk.
[/quote]
Both Dan (pec) and Chris Gronkowski (hamstring) suffered injuries at regional combines. Shahid Paulhill had a head injury at the Lions' combine. Vick Ballard got a concussion. Julio Jones broke a foot. DC Jefferson, Rutgers had bench press injury.
Re: Will this cost Christian McCaffrey draft spots and money? - Mick - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 02:34 PM)DC 86 link Wrote:[quote author=AthleticsDynasty link=topic=16307.msg183060#msg183060 date=1482182735]You don't see a significant increase in risk playing in a live football game as opposed to running sprints and lifting weights at a training camp? I am familiar with Jaylon Smith, Willis McGahee, Marcus Lattimore et al but can't think of any players who suffered devastating injuries during combine prep.
As for injury I'm going to assume Christian won't be sitting on his couch for a month so I doubt there is any significant increase in injury risk.
[/quote]
Both Dan (pec) and Chris Gronkowski (hamstring) suffered injuries at regional combines. Shahid Paulhill had a head injury at the Lions' combine. Vick Ballard got a concussion. Julio Jones broke a foot. DC Jefferson, Rutgers had bench press injury.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - thunder_chik - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 12:54 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=thunder_chik link=topic=16303.msg182961#msg182961 date=1482158561]
Fournette announced earlier this month that he would forego his team's bowl game to "prepare" for the draft. A euphemism for "I don't want to get injured".
If we were in the Rose Bowl, I think CMac would play. But to risk damage in what is essentially an exhibition-type game vs an unranked opponent...I really don't fault his decision.
Nevertheless, I am disappointed. :'(
So as near I can tell "I don't want to get injured" gives moral authority for any senior who doesn't want to play in the bowl game. Right?
[/quote]
No, I don't agree and I'm certainly not prepared to render a moral or ethical judgment about his (or anyone else's) decision--yet. I would like more information about the formulation of his decision. I suspect his dad, from past experiences and comments, had a lot of input in convincing Christian to forego his senior year as well as this upcoming bowl game. If Fournette hadn't announced earlier, would CMac gone ahead with it? I do wonder what legal ramifications there might be when a player who is on scholarship decides not to complete the season with his team. Did CMac need to get the OK from Stanford Athletics and/or David Shaw? It will be interesting to see if this becomes a trend and how the schools (and fans) deal with it.
Re: CMAC not playing in Sun Bowl?!? - thunder_chik - 12-19-2016
(12-19-2016, 12:54 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=thunder_chik link=topic=16303.msg182961#msg182961 date=1482158561]
Fournette announced earlier this month that he would forego his team's bowl game to "prepare" for the draft. A euphemism for "I don't want to get injured".
If we were in the Rose Bowl, I think CMac would play. But to risk damage in what is essentially an exhibition-type game vs an unranked opponent...I really don't fault his decision.
Nevertheless, I am disappointed. :'(
So as near I can tell "I don't want to get injured" gives moral authority for any senior who doesn't want to play in the bowl game. Right?
[/quote]
No, I don't agree and I'm certainly not prepared to render a moral or ethical judgment about his (or anyone else's) decision--yet. I would like more information about the formulation of his decision. I suspect his dad, from past experiences and comments, had a lot of input in convincing Christian to forego his senior year as well as this upcoming bowl game. If Fournette hadn't announced earlier, would CMac gone ahead with it? I do wonder what legal ramifications there might be when a player who is on scholarship decides not to complete the season with his team. Did CMac need to get the OK from Stanford Athletics and/or David Shaw? It will be interesting to see if this becomes a trend and how the schools (and fans) deal with it.