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Re: ND-Stanford - fullmetal - 10-01-2014

(10-01-2014, 10:47 AM)NDIrish link Wrote:Because i dont think golson gets sacked all that much, he is very good at extending plays and avoiding defenders.  So that takes away some of the advantage of stanfords D line being better than nds.  In general thats a good rule, but the term better doesn't define the difference in skill.  So even though a teams D line is better than another teams D line, that doesnt specify if they are just 10% better of 80% better. 

Overall, i think golson can naturalize alot of the difference and (even though i get slammed for this) i think NDs WRs are better, so with golson buying time, the receivers get open and make plans.

So that is how i can still say ND wins.

Did you farm out your football posts to non-native English speaking contract workers?  I mean, posting from a smartphone is one thing, but grammar and spell check...eesh.

Anyway, you're banking on the chance that Golson isn't going to get sacked and that our DBs can't cover.  I would disagree, but this is why the games are played.

Re: ND-Stanford - Hulk01 - 10-01-2014

It's not clear the basis for saying Smith will be the best LB on the field.  My scout favored Kalambayi before the Sc breakout. "Smith has a great feel for the game, but Kalambayi is a freak and carries more weight much better.  He's an Alabama linebacker playing in the Pac 12."

And he likes your guy Redfield much more than you do, although your guy is young and still developing. 

In balance, the talent may be a near-wash but Stanford has the one big playmaker.  But it's mostly going to be a punting, field position, and field goal game.  I give you three points on field goals just to start; your guy is automatic and ours is not. 


Re: ND-Stanford - Rfed013 - 10-01-2014


[/quote]

Did you farm out your football posts to non-native English speaking contract workers?  I mean, posting from a smartphone is one thing, but grammar and spell check...eesh.

Anyway, you're banking on the chance that Golson isn't going to get sacked and that our DBs can't cover.  I would disagree, but this is why the games are played.
[/quote]


I think this is what he was trying to get at; it's one thing to have good DB coverage or O-Line blocking on a designed play. But Golson's ability to move out of the pocket-if flushed or due to coverage-can keep plays alive. When that happens, DB coverage breaksdown because it turns to backyard football. The advantage is always the QB and the reciever.

Re: ND-Stanford - NDIrish - 10-01-2014

(10-01-2014, 11:18 AM)Hulk01 link Wrote:It's not clear the basis for saying Smith will be the best LB on the field.  My scout favored Kalambayi before the Sc breakout. "Smith has a great feel for the game, but Kalambayi is a freak and carries more weight much better.  He's an Alabama linebacker playing in the Pac 12."

And he likes your guy Redfield much more than you do, although your guy is young and still developing. 

In balance, the talent may be a near-wash but Stanford has the one big playmaker.  But it's mostly going to be a punting, field position, and field goal game.  I give you three points on field goals just to start; your guy is automatic and ours is not.

I like redfield a ton, but like you said, he is young and has a lot to learn, but he will be great

Re: ND-Stanford - Renaissance Man - 10-01-2014

Amazing to me that we have had this much linebacker discussion without Tarpley's name coming up one time...

Re: ND-Stanford - fullmetal - 10-01-2014

I think Golson and Miles are cut from the same cloth.  And we saw what happened to the purple cloth.

Re: ND-Stanford - Bruce Wang - 10-01-2014

(10-01-2014, 05:06 AM)NDIrish link Wrote:[quote author=Publius link=topic=10754.msg100032#msg100032 date=1412131828]
[quote author=NDIrish link=topic=10754.msg100021#msg100021 date=1412126471]
Can i ask, do you guys feel as if the requirements for the players to get in are on the same scale?  Not looking at the university as a whole, just for the players?  Cause my initial feelings are that they are, but please correct me if i am wrong.

Are you asking about the academic qualifications of the Stanford football team as compared to ND?  Ask the guy with fake dead girlfriend.
[/quote]

I feel like you can't judge the academic qualifications for the entire university based off of one kid being fooled... just because he was dumb about that, doesn't mean he can't get it done in the classroom, so sorry that doesn't help me...

and before you go to the kids cheating, that is more of a sign of laziness then being unintelligent.  I was looking more for info on scores, gpa requirements...
[/quote]

To give you sense of how hard it is to qualify academically as a football recruit, I pointed to Manti because he had committed to Stanford and then decommitted likely due to admissions issues.  Stanford does not have hard lines on scores or GPAs for any students.  Athletes or otherwise.  The only hard line that I know if is the requirement to take at least 2 AP classes senior year if the school offers such classes.  To put it in relative perspective to your school, I mentioned that there were only a handful of football players on your current roster that Stanford could even consider.

We take great pride in the quality of our football players in the classroom.  It amazes me that they can handle the classroom workload and a physically demanding and punishing full time job.  I saw first hand a consensus first team All-American take the hardest class in undergraduate economics while he was preparing for the draft combine.  This class is only required for honors track.  He's either smarter than me or has a better work ethic, because if I was a lock to get drafted in the first round for the NFL I would stay faaaar away from econometrics.

Re: ND-Stanford - Papa John - 10-01-2014

(10-01-2014, 01:27 PM)Publius link Wrote:I saw first hand a consensus first team All-American take the hardest class in undergraduate economics while he was preparing for the draft combine.  This class is only required for honors track.  He's either smarter than me or has a better work ethic, because if I was a lock to get drafted in the first round for the NFL I would stay faaaar away from econometrics.

I've never been a lock for the NFL draft, but I've still stayed as far away from econometrics as is humanly possible.

Re: ND-Stanford - NDIrish - 10-02-2014

(10-01-2014, 01:27 PM)Publius link Wrote:[quote author=NDIrish link=topic=10754.msg100067#msg100067 date=1412165217]
[quote author=Publius link=topic=10754.msg100032#msg100032 date=1412131828]
[quote author=NDIrish link=topic=10754.msg100021#msg100021 date=1412126471]
Can i ask, do you guys feel as if the requirements for the players to get in are on the same scale?  Not looking at the university as a whole, just for the players?  Cause my initial feelings are that they are, but please correct me if i am wrong.

Are you asking about the academic qualifications of the Stanford football team as compared to ND?  Ask the guy with fake dead girlfriend.
[/quote]

I feel like you can't judge the academic qualifications for the entire university based off of one kid being fooled... just because he was dumb about that, doesn't mean he can't get it done in the classroom, so sorry that doesn't help me...

and before you go to the kids cheating, that is more of a sign of laziness then being unintelligent.  I was looking more for info on scores, gpa requirements...
[/quote]

To give you sense of how hard it is to qualify academically as a football recruit, I pointed to Manti because he had committed to Stanford and then decommitted likely due to admissions issues.  Stanford does not have hard lines on scores or GPAs for any students.  Athletes or otherwise.  The only hard line that I know if is the requirement to take at least 2 AP classes senior year if the school offers such classes.  To put it in relative perspective to your school, I mentioned that there were only a handful of football players on your current roster that Stanford could even consider.

We take great pride in the quality of our football players in the classroom.  It amazes me that they can handle the classroom workload and a physically demanding and punishing full time job.  I saw first hand a consensus first team All-American take the hardest class in undergraduate economics while he was preparing for the draft combine.  This class is only required for honors track.  He's either smarter than me or has a better work ethic, because if I was a lock to get drafted in the first round for the NFL I would stay faaaar away from econometrics.
[/quote]


i get it stanford is tough and as alumni of the school, each of you guys will defend it and show your pride.  I applaud that and respect that.  But here is what i dont get.  There have been numerous comments about how many notre dame players couldnt get into stanford, teo, golson, and just the general blank of "most of the players".

BUT in another thread that many of you commented on (http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php/topic,10661.0.html?PHPSESSID=249eafde951d234005261a92d3ce37f4) you talk about how your glad you didn't end with winston OR how stanford would have turned him into a "stanford man".  If it is so hard for an athlete (speaking ONLY of them, not the general population), how are you guys really discussing about wishing or not wishing that stanford would have gotten Winston?

Now, i do not doubt that stanford has some kids that play football and are at least twice as smart as i am, or smarter than some of ND football players, but it really make me doubt that EVERY stanford football player is only that level, something that it seems like you guys like imply. 

All i am saying that, as a university, i am sure they have very strict requirements.  And i am sure that for the most parts these requirements are held for football players.  But you can't tell me that it is impossible that ND guys couldn't get into stanford (and i know winston has said that he maintains a gpa of 3.4 at FSU, but teo had a 3.3 at ND, 1540 SAT score, golson had a 3.8 in high school , etc...)





Re: ND-Stanford - FarmBoy - 10-02-2014

Well, it doesn't look like the suspended players will be back this week: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11625879/keivarae-russell-notre-dame-becoming-ridiculous

Quote:"AND THEY STILL SAID MY DECISION WONT COME UNTIL ALL 5 OF US (and some other minor hearings) ARE DONE. Decision MIGHT come next week, not even 100% it's tough to understand these people."


Re: ND-Stanford - FarmBoy - 10-02-2014

Quote:BUT in another thread that many of you commented on (http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php/topic,10661.0.html?PHPSESSID=249eafde951d234005261a92d3ce37f4) you talk about how your glad you didn't end with winston OR how stanford would have turned him into a "stanford man".  If it is so hard for an athlete (speaking ONLY of them, not the general population), how are you guys really discussing about wishing or not wishing that stanford would have gotten Winston?

Now, i do not doubt that stanford has some kids that play football and are at least twice as smart as i am, or smarter than some of ND football players, but it really make me doubt that EVERY stanford football player is only that level, something that it seems like you guys like imply. 

I'm not sure what your question is about. With all the news on Winston, it's natural for us to speculate on what would have been had he chosen Stanford over FSU. They are very different environments, and perhaps Stanford would have brought out the better angels of his nature. Or maybe not.

I have a hard time speculating on the intelligence of players who we do or don't get. I've heard of examples of a player being denied admission to Stanford but then being accepted at an Ivy League school. But who knows what the real story is. Only the players know for sure whether they were rejected over academics.

I doubt anyone is making any assumptions of how smart the Stanford players are vs. you personally, for what it's worth. And we know there are lots of players at other schools who could have made it through Stanford admissions but either weren't recruited or chose to go elsewhere. We're talking "on average" here. On average, Stanford players are going to be more academically inclined because you have to commit to a heavier course load. For example, a player needs to take 2 AP classes and be performing well in them to be considered. Lots of high school seniors with offers from ND or elsewhere are happy to take the easy route rather than meet that bar.

I'm sure that there are a number of players on NDs roster who would have made it through the admissions process. But on average, ND players won't have the academic resume of their Stanford counterparts.

Re: ND-Stanford - Bruce Wang - 10-02-2014

(10-02-2014, 05:37 AM)NDIrish link Wrote:BUT in another thread that many of you commented on (http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php/topic,10661.0.html?PHPSESSID=249eafde951d234005261a92d3ce37f4) you talk about how your glad you didn't end with winston OR how stanford would have turned him into a "stanford man".  If it is so hard for an athlete (speaking ONLY of them, not the general population), how are you guys really discussing about wishing or not wishing that stanford would have gotten Winston?

Now, i do not doubt that stanford has some kids that play football and are at least twice as smart as i am, or smarter than some of ND football players, but it really make me doubt that EVERY stanford football player is only that level, something that it seems like you guys like imply. 

All i am saying that, as a university, i am sure they have very strict requirements.  And i am sure that for the most parts these requirements are held for football players.  But you can't tell me that it is impossible that ND guys couldn't get into stanford (and i know winston has said that he maintains a gpa of 3.4 at FSU, but teo had a 3.3 at ND, 1540 SAT score, golson had a 3.8 in high school , etc...)

I didn't say it was impossible for the ND players to get into Stanford.  My guesstimate is maybe 10-15% of your roster could have gotten in.  My problem is that your fanbase thinks 90% of them could have.  ND is a good school so we do see you as the 2nd or 3rd toughest rival for recruits after our shared enemy and maybe UCLA.

With regards to Winston, I wished he came to Stanford because I believe he would not have acted the way he has at Stanford. As one of our friend's motto says quoting a former basketball player: "We have an unwritten rule around here not to do anything stupid."  However, our athletes have done stupid things, as have our students in general (myself included and trust me more than my fair share).  Winston's behavior, however, is beyond the pale and hard to imagine happening here.  In this case, we will never know. Those of us that are more risk averse, are probably glad that he didn't come here.

Re: ND-Stanford - CTcard - 10-02-2014

(10-02-2014, 05:37 AM)NDIrish link Wrote:BUT in another thread that many of you commented on (http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php/topic,10661.0.html?PHPSESSID=249eafde951d234005261a92d3ce37f4) you talk about how your glad you didn't end with winston OR how stanford would have turned him into a "stanford man".  If it is so hard for an athlete (speaking ONLY of them, not the general population), how are you guys really discussing about wishing or not wishing that stanford would have gotten Winston?

... But you can't tell me that it is impossible that ND guys couldn't get into stanford 

1a. Winston publically narrowed his choices to Stanford and FSU before choosing FSU (after the initial NLI date - causing some drama).
1b. Winston reported having a 4.0 GPA in high school and was a Watkins Award finalist. While self-reported GPAs are certainly not always entirely accurate (Reggie Bush), overall it appears no surprise that he was accepted at Stanford.
He's not a particularly good example of where Stanford football admissions standards are - he may be a good example of the fact that doing well academically is not the same thing as being a solid citizen.

2. Of course some N.-D. football players could get accepted at Stanford. Year on year N.-D. is among our top-3 recruiting competitors along with UCLA and S.-C. Stanford was involved with some of the guys on the current domers roster, but I don't follow this stuff closely enough to know who might have gotten far enough with Stanford to actually be admitted - in fact that is often a somewhat mysterious issue.

Re: ND-Stanford - NDIrish - 10-02-2014

(10-02-2014, 06:37 AM)Publius link Wrote:[quote author=NDIrish link=topic=10754.msg100219#msg100219 date=1412253424]
BUT in another thread that many of you commented on (http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php/topic,10661.0.html?PHPSESSID=249eafde951d234005261a92d3ce37f4) you talk about how your glad you didn't end with winston OR how stanford would have turned him into a "stanford man".  If it is so hard for an athlete (speaking ONLY of them, not the general population), how are you guys really discussing about wishing or not wishing that stanford would have gotten Winston?

Now, i do not doubt that stanford has some kids that play football and are at least twice as smart as i am, or smarter than some of ND football players, but it really make me doubt that EVERY stanford football player is only that level, something that it seems like you guys like imply. 

All i am saying that, as a university, i am sure they have very strict requirements.  And i am sure that for the most parts these requirements are held for football players.  But you can't tell me that it is impossible that ND guys couldn't get into stanford (and i know winston has said that he maintains a gpa of 3.4 at FSU, but teo had a 3.3 at ND, 1540 SAT score, golson had a 3.8 in high school , etc...)

I didn't say it was impossible for the ND players to get into Stanford.  My guesstimate is maybe 10-15% of your roster could have gotten in.  My problem is that your fanbase thinks 90% of them could have.  ND is a good school so we do see you as the 2nd or 3rd toughest rival for recruits after our shared enemy and maybe UCLA.

With regards to Winston, I wished he came to Stanford because I believe he would not have acted the way he has at Stanford. As one of our friend's motto says quoting a former basketball player: "We have an unwritten rule around here not to do anything stupid."  However, our athletes have done stupid things, as have our students in general (myself included and trust me more than my fair share).  Winston's behavior, however, is beyond the pale and hard to imagine happening here.  In this case, we will never know. Those of us that are more risk averse, are probably glad that he didn't come here.
[/quote]

You think he gets in trouble again before the season is over?  hoping in a couple weeks lol

Re: ND-Stanford - NDIrish - 10-02-2014

(10-02-2014, 06:52 AM)CTcard link Wrote:[quote author=NDIrish link=topic=10754.msg100219#msg100219 date=1412253424]

BUT in another thread that many of you commented on (http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php/topic,10661.0.html?PHPSESSID=249eafde951d234005261a92d3ce37f4) you talk about how your glad you didn't end with winston OR how stanford would have turned him into a "stanford man".  If it is so hard for an athlete (speaking ONLY of them, not the general population), how are you guys really discussing about wishing or not wishing that stanford would have gotten Winston?

... But you can't tell me that it is impossible that ND guys couldn't get into stanford 

1a. Winston publically narrowed his choices to Stanford and FSU before choosing FSU (after the initial NLI date - causing some drama).
1b. Winston reported having a 4.0 GPA in high school and was a Watkins Award finalist. While self-reported GPAs are certainly not always entirely accurate (Reggie Bush), overall it appears no surprise that he was accepted at Stanford.
He's not a particularly good example of where Stanford football admissions standards are - he may be a good example of the fact that doing well academically is not the same thing as being a solid citizen.

2. Of course some N.-D. football players could get accepted at Stanford. Year on year N.-D. is among our top-3 recruiting competitors along with UCLA and S.-C. Stanford was involved with some of the guys on the current domers roster, but I don't follow this stuff closely enough to know who might have gotten far enough with Stanford to actually be admitted - in fact that is often a somewhat mysterious issue.
[/quote]

It is hard and becomes obvious when some kids are pushed through high school.  Recently had this discussion with someone concerning athletes and academics.  I was surprised researching Winston where is grades were at, which obviously is not a sign of intelligence.  But i had recently read an article published by a teacher at fsu (http://deadspin.com/jameis-winston-isnt-the-only-problem-here-an-fsu-teac-1467707410) very eye opening, but it starts in high school when kids are pushed through (which high grades surprising) and the same goes on in college and all of a sudden they are 22 and can't read.  Now i don't know if winston deserves his grades or not, i struggle with the idea that someone who makes his choices and speaks the way he does, that he is going to have the discipline to actually earn a 4.0 in high school and 3.4 in college, but maybe im wrong. 

But i would like peoples thoughts on that article...

Re: ND-Stanford - Bruce Wang - 10-02-2014

(10-02-2014, 07:29 AM)NDIrish link Wrote:You think he gets in trouble again before the season is over?  hoping in a couple weeks lol

I only hope he gets in trouble again if it's something like CrabGate i.e. nobody gets hurt and it's funny.

Re: ND-Stanford - NDIrish - 10-02-2014

(10-02-2014, 06:25 AM)FarmBoy link Wrote:Well, it doesn't look like the suspended players will be back this week: http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11625879/keivarae-russell-notre-dame-becoming-ridiculous

Quote:"AND THEY STILL SAID MY DECISION WONT COME UNTIL ALL 5 OF US (and some other minor hearings) ARE DONE. Decision MIGHT come next week, not even 100% it's tough to understand these people."


nope doesnt look like it, if these kids are innocent, its too bad they have missed this much

Re: ND-Stanford - NDIrish - 10-02-2014

(10-02-2014, 07:35 AM)Publius link Wrote:[quote author=NDIrish link=topic=10754.msg100242#msg100242 date=1412260142]

You think he gets in trouble again before the season is over?  hoping in a couple weeks lol

I only hope he gets in trouble again if it's something like CrabGate i.e. nobody gets hurt and it's funny.
[/quote]

yeah, and i dont like rooting against kids specifically, but if he had another craving for crab legs and no money it would sure help us! 

Re: ND-Stanford - NDIrish - 10-02-2014

(10-02-2014, 06:26 AM)garvin link Wrote:I think we've established that we're proud of the academic performance of our team. I also think there is no possible rebuttal to NDIrish's contention that some the University of Dead Fake Girlfriends players could get into Stanford, particularly since, over the years, some have. (David Marrero, who committed to the University of Dead Fake Girlfriends and then switched to Stanford at the last moment, comes to mind. So does Konrad Reuland, who transferred to Stanford from the University of Dead Fake Girlfriends.) How about if we all just leave it at that? This horse is not only dead, it's beginning to stink.

Fair enough.

Re: ND-Stanford - NDIrish - 10-02-2014

(10-02-2014, 06:37 AM)Publius link Wrote:[quote author=NDIrish link=topic=10754.msg100219#msg100219 date=1412253424]
BUT in another thread that many of you commented on (http://thecardboard.org/board/index.php/topic,10661.0.html?PHPSESSID=249eafde951d234005261a92d3ce37f4) you talk about how your glad you didn't end with winston OR how stanford would have turned him into a "stanford man".  If it is so hard for an athlete (speaking ONLY of them, not the general population), how are you guys really discussing about wishing or not wishing that stanford would have gotten Winston?

Now, i do not doubt that stanford has some kids that play football and are at least twice as smart as i am, or smarter than some of ND football players, but it really make me doubt that EVERY stanford football player is only that level, something that it seems like you guys like imply. 

All i am saying that, as a university, i am sure they have very strict requirements.  And i am sure that for the most parts these requirements are held for football players.  But you can't tell me that it is impossible that ND guys couldn't get into stanford (and i know winston has said that he maintains a gpa of 3.4 at FSU, but teo had a 3.3 at ND, 1540 SAT score, golson had a 3.8 in high school , etc...)

I didn't say it was impossible for the ND players to get into Stanford.  My guesstimate is maybe 10-15% of your roster could have gotten in.  My problem is that your fanbase thinks 90% of them could have.  ND is a good school so we do see you as the 2nd or 3rd toughest rival for recruits after our shared enemy and maybe UCLA.

With regards to Winston, I wished he came to Stanford because I believe he would not have acted the way he has at Stanford. As one of our friend's motto says quoting a former basketball player: "We have an unwritten rule around here not to do anything stupid."  However, our athletes have done stupid things, as have our students in general (myself included and trust me more than my fair share).  Winston's behavior, however, is beyond the pale and hard to imagine happening here.  In this case, we will never know. Those of us that are more risk averse, are probably glad that he didn't come here.
[/quote]

you gotta hate that shared enemy... i only got to watch a little more than half of that game (got to go to ND-Mich) but i was refreshing my phone and figured you guys had it to tie, but was really disappointment in the outcome..