WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - Printable Version
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WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - 81alum - 02-14-2016
Overview
Horrible rebounding and Sophie Brunner's seemingly unstoppable six foot fadeaway jumper ultimately doomed us, but the team, aided by the crowd, made a Herculean 4th quarter effort to give us several chances to win. It is terribly disappointing to lose such a critical game on a last second shot, but this one was nothing to be ashamed of. Plenty of questions and many "what ifs" to mull over, but the fact remains that we were far more competitive, gritty, and skillful in this game than the last time we met.
Pregame:
A win tonight would go a long way to showing that Tara has turned around the season, that our young players are growing in the system, and that we deserve to host the first two rounds of the NCAAs. A loss will assure that we won't win the Pac 12 regular season, will probably prevent us from finishing higher than 3rd or 4th in the Pac 12, and could undermine our hope to host two home games in the NCAAs. The most important game of the season, so far, for us. There is no mystery about this game--we will win only if we avoid turnovers and find a way to get good shots against the most discombobulating defense we are likely to play this year. We need nerves of steel and we need our layups to go through the hoop. ASU gives up layups and doesn't give up jump shots--that is the weakness of a press-man.
Flow of the Game:
The first quarter was surprising. Our offense was much improved over the Tempe edition, but our defense got taken apart. We would have been ecstatic with a 19 point quarter against ASU a month ago, but we gave up 23. It hurt that the ref's calls all seemed to go against us in that quarter, and my hope for an early confidence-building lead evaporated. The second quarter, though, was much worse--we reverted entirely to Tempe play and scored only 6 points in the quarter, giving up 15, and went in to the half dejected and down 38-25. It did not have to be that way. With three minutes left in the half, Lili got fouled and went to the line with the chance of sinking two free throws and tying the game at 27. She missed both and ASU drained three treys and a Brunner layup to close out the half. Those last few minutes were a punch in the gut and it was beginning to look a lot like ASU had a nearly insurmountable lead--13 points when we could only score 6 a quarter was not a pretty deficit.
ASU seemed to be making a lot of jumpers--mid range jumpers and a few treys as well. The accuracy seemed uncanny in the first half. I kept thinking that they could not keep up that accuracy all game. But the really bad news was rebounding. At the half we had been outrebounded 24-12--ASU was getting loads of offensive boards. Good ASU shooting and very poor rebounding on our part had resulted in a depressing half.Â
It was getting hard to watch, honestly, but I tried to summon the energy to cheer and try to get the team back into the game. When they came out to warm up for the second half, you could tell they were demoralized. The practice shots and shoot-around looked anemic and there were many grim faces. I felt we had to cut the deficit down into single digits to have a shot at a fourth quarter comeback, but we didn't. A few things were working well, though. Lili assisted Erica on three consecutive layups--bounce passes to her moving down to the low post. Then it stopped, and we scratched out only 11 points in the quarter. Our defense played well, though, and gave up only 11.Â
So we went to the fourth quarter still down 49-36, without a lot of hope. Then came the best 14:34 minutes we have played against a quality team--we went on a 19-6 run to tie the game. Keying the run were three pointers by Bri--two of them--one by Karlie, three layups and a jumper by McCall. The offense was working well, and so was the defense. Our team finally was showing maximum effort and was ripping away steals--4 in a row to start the quarter. The steals and the scoring repeatedly brought the crowd to its feet and Maples roared more than at any other WBB game this year.Â
Then came the last half minute. Karlie made a trey to give us a one point lead, Brunner made one of two free throws to tie the game, we took a time out to advance the ball and had possession in our half of the court with 9 seconds and a chance to win the game. Lili dribbled around the key and took an open jumper from around the foul line and missed, Erica scooped one of the few offensive rebounds of the game and put it up in contact and missed--no foul called. Overtime.
Overtime was tense and tight the whole way. Lili fouled out early in the period. Otherwise, our defense did well but gave up a couple of free throws and a layup to Amukamura. Karlie hit another critical trey and Karlie grabbed a steal with 1:28 left, leading to a McCall layup on a beautiful assist by Sniezek for a two point lead with a minute left. ASU took the timeout to advance the ball and fed it to Brunner who we double teamed, but she hit her short range fadeaway to tie the game. When that shot is "on" it is indefensible--she has to be prevented from getting the ball in close. Still we had the ball and could nearly play for the last shot. Our offense was stagnant and Marta missed a jumper with 9 seconds left. We prevented a fast break and time nearly expired before--who else--Brunner hit a short fadeaway over the outstretched arms of two defenders. The ball went through, the buzzer sounded, they reviewed the shot and it counted. We lose.
Performances:
As a team, we cut ASU's shooting from 44% in the first half to 26% in the second. But ASU got 47 rebounds to our 30. That was a devastating difference. They had 20 O-boards. We had only 14 turnovers to their 18, we had 15 assists to their 9, and we had 7 blocks to their 1, we had 11 steals to their 8. We played somewhat better in every category except rebounding and.....free throws. We were only 5/10 from the line and those 5 points we left on the floor would have won the game several times over.Â
As for individuals, McCall had one of her best offensive days--going 11/14 for 22 points--but only 6 rebounds.
Karlie was another heroine--14 points on crucial 4/8 three point shooting.Â
Bri got her shot back! She earned 9 points on 3/8 shooting including two timely treys.
Other points were scattered in low amounts. It is worth pointing out that Lili had 5 assists, Marta had 3, and Bri 0.Â
Lili, unfortunately, continued her shooting woes tonight and went 2/12 before fouling out in overtime. I really wonder what happened to Kaylee, who started and was pulled early for Kailee and was barely seen again. We could have used her rebounds. It is not as if Kailee stopped Brunner, after all. Alanna and McPhee made short appearances.Â
Conclusion:
The fourth quarter certainly showed many good signs, but the lack of rebounding, our inability to defend Brunner when it mattered, and Lili's inconsistency were too much for us. Sure, this one hurts a lot. But not as much as losing 49-31 at their place. Keep in mind that we lost two games to them last year, too, including a last second heartbreaker at Maples, and we came back to beat them in the Pac12 tournament. Let's hope history repeats itself.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Arizona State 6:00 pacific - TheFarm07 - 02-14-2016
Down 36-49 with one quarter left. Though we scored more than the last time we faced AZ State, our shots are not falling. See if we can find some heroics. Still coming to grips that we are no longer an elite team
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Arizona State 6:00 pacific - TheFarm07 - 02-14-2016
Going into overtime. We stage a furious comeback in the 4th quarter outscoring AZ State 19-6, but with 8.4 secs left, Lili's wide-open jumper and Erica's second chance opportunity both miss.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Arizona State 6:00 pacific - TheFarm07 - 02-14-2016
We lose a heartbreaker 63-61 in OT, on a literal buzzer beater by Sophie Brunner. The ball left her hand with the narrowest of margins.
Re: WBB: Stanford vs. Arizona State 6:00 pacific - CompSci87 - 02-14-2016
That was draining. The crowd was great and the team effort was off the charts.
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - chimera - 02-14-2016
I'm worn out. I don't know what it looked like on TV where you can see replays and all that but in Maples we were all blowing gaskets over the officiating in the first quarter. It really changed the game, robbed us of aggressiveness. I think the early fouls messed up our defensive intensity. Now ASU fouls a ton just with the way they play. they have hands on people all game, push and shove on rebounds, etc. So I find it hard to believe we fouled 7 or so time in the first quarter with a bunch very early on and they were totally innocent. Officiating can really change the tone of a game, and we got the raw end of that. Am I nuts? Were we really so much worse than ASU?
Great comeback and damn, had chances to win it on a good look and a decent follow in regulation but shots did not fall. Great game but McCall when we got her the ball. Karlie too. I can't for the life of me think why the players are apparently not allowed to call a time out when the game is on the line very late and they are facing a 5 second call trying to get the ball in. Was that a deliberate foul by Roberson in regulation? Very odd since we had the lead I think at that time, one point and there was 36 or more seconds in the game so if we held them, we are good (and at that point ASU was having trouble scoring), and if not we had time. Worked out but still odd. If we rebound their miss in regulation we probably win. Just so many chances to win and could not quite get it done. Why on why did we not pressure them bringing up the ball at the end of OT? We let them charge up and get a great shot. Ah well, looked like a sad blowout but turned into a gutty, respectable, but very frustrating loss. At least we showed what we could do against a good team. If the beginning of the game was not officiated as it was or if we did not collapse on defense at the end of the first half to let them get way ahead, whole different ball game. I don't know what's up with Lili, some undisclosed injury or something, but it is killing us not to get scoring from her.Â
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - 81alum - 02-14-2016
(02-14-2016, 10:33 PM)chimera link Wrote:I'm worn out. I don't know what it looked like on TV where you can see replays and all that but in Maples we were all blowing gaskets over the officiating in the first quarter. It really changed the game, robbed us of aggressiveness. I think the early fouls messed up our defensive intensity. Now ASU fouls a ton just with the way they play. they have hands on people all game, push and shove on rebounds, etc. So I find it hard to believe we fouled 7 or so time in the first quarter with a bunch very early on and they were totally innocent. Officiating can really change the tone of a game, and we got the raw end of that. Am I nuts? Were we really so much worse than ASU?
Great comeback and damn, had chances to win it on a good look and a decent follow in regulation but shots did not fall. Great game but McCall when we got her the ball. Karlie too. I can't for the life of me think why the players are apparently not allowed to call a time out when the game is on the line very late and they are facing a 5 second call trying to get the ball in. Was that a deliberate foul by Roberson in regulation? Very odd since we had the lead I think at that time, one point and there was 36 or more seconds in the game so if we held them, we are good (and at that point ASU was having trouble scoring), and if not we had time. Worked out but still odd. If we rebound their miss in regulation we probably win. Just so many chances to win and could not quite get it done. Why on why did we not pressure them bringing up the ball at the end of OT? We let them charge up and get a great shot. Ah well, looked like a sad blowout but turned into a gutty, respectable, but very frustrating loss. At least we showed what we could do against a good team. If the beginning of the game was not officiated as it was or if we did not collapse on defense at the end of the first half to let them get way ahead, whole different ball game. I don't know what's up with Lili, some undisclosed injury or something, but it is killing us not to get scoring from her.
The officiating was questionable in the first half--not so much on the calls against us--but on the non-calls on ASU. It simply was not equal. I do think it let ASU get that massive 23 point quarter under their belt. But the fact that we shot only 5/10 free throws was not good either. I did not notice any great disparity after the first quarter, though. But we needed a fast start as a confidence booster, and we did not get it, thanks in part to those fouls.
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - Viking_Guy - 02-14-2016
A couple of things:
(1) Lili had a really tough game. With a chance to tie the game late in the first half after Stanford fought their way back into it, she missed two FTs to leave Stanford trailing 27-25. ASU scored the next 15 points spanning halftime to get their largest lead of 17, 42-25. Then she missed a layup that would've tied the game at 47 with about 3 minutes left. Then she missed the game-winning jumper from about 14 on the last possession. Then she fouled out early in the OT. She needs to get right soon.
(2) I really dislike Kailee as our inbounder. Two critical turnovers today, including one out of a timeout with only 47 seconds left. Although that also may be on Tara - she had a timeout in her pocket and didn't call it when Johnson got in trouble. But the other thing I've noticed with Kailee is that her rebounding form is bloody awful - she may box out, but her hands are down below her shoulders. Time and again the Sun Devils were able to tip the ball away over the top of her. And her hands really aren't that strong in holding onto the ball once she grabs it.
(3) The truly incomprehensible thing was the inability or unwillingness to get the ball to Bird late. She dragged the team back into the game in the fourth quarter, and then touched the ball in the post three times - the last-second rebound attempt (which she probably should've knocked down), a turnover early in OT, and the beautiful layup that gave Stanford a 61-59 lead. Other than that, the last 9 minutes of clock were a whole lot of guards dribbling the perimeter. I would've loved to have seen giving her the ball at the elbow and let her drive at Brunner or Moos.
VG
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - chimera - 02-14-2016
(02-14-2016, 11:21 PM)Viking_Guy link Wrote:A couple of things:
(1) Lili had a really tough game. With a chance to tie the game late in the first half after Stanford fought their way back into it, she missed two FTs to leave Stanford trailing 27-25. ASU scored the next 15 points spanning halftime to get their largest lead of 17, 42-25. Then she missed a layup that would've tied the game at 47 with about 3 minutes left. Then she missed the game-winning jumper from about 14 on the last possession. Then she fouled out early in the OT. She needs to get right soon.
(2) I really dislike Kailee as our inbounder. Two critical turnovers today, including one out of a timeout with only 47 seconds left. Although that also may be on Tara - she had a timeout in her pocket and didn't call it when Johnson got in trouble. But the other thing I've noticed with Kailee is that her rebounding form is bloody awful - she may box out, but her hands are down below her shoulders. Time and again the Sun Devils were able to tip the ball away over the top of her. And her hands really aren't that strong in holding onto the ball once she grabs it.
(3) The truly incomprehensible thing was the inability or unwillingness to get the ball to Bird late. She dragged the team back into the game in the fourth quarter, and then touched the ball in the post three times - the last-second rebound attempt (which she probably should've knocked down), a turnover early in OT, and the beautiful layup that gave Stanford a 61-59 lead. Other than that, the last 9 minutes of clock were a whole lot of guards dribbling the perimeter. I would've loved to have seen giving her the ball at the elbow and let her drive at Brunner or Moos.
VG
I would actually take McCall shooting a mid-range shot in a key situation rather than any of our guards. Agree about us not getting her the ball late.Â
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - TheFarm07 - 02-15-2016
I liked the way we fought back, and even though we tied the game and sent it to overtime, we had a couple empty possessions when the ball again got stuck in a guard's hands and there was nowhere to go. Plus the in-bounding turnovers, whether they be the 5-second calls or the immediate tip/turnover really hurt us.
Lili's off-shooting nights are really hurting us. I rather see her have more consistency than explode for a game or two and then miss everything for the next five games.
Where was Kaylee second half of the game?
Also, the announcers commented that we looked tired on defense, I don't know if anyone saw that at the game, but Tara did not substitute really in the 4th quarter and OT, until Lili fouling out forced her too. I know defensively that was probably our best lineup, but you think she would give a player or two a breather. Is McPhee and/or Smith that unreliable on defense to put in for a couple minutes?
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - JTM - 02-15-2016
What bothered me the most was the last play of the game. If I remember correctly, there was 6.8 seconds left and ASU had the ball down by 1 point. All the Stanford players fell back to defend the basket. No one challenged the ASU player bringing the ball up the court until the final 20 feet. I would think you would want someone in her face the entire length of the court, to make progress up-court slow and difficult, and to take as much time off the clock as possible. Instead she got a quick and unobstructed path, was able to start penetrating the defense, and dish-off for the winning shot.
PS I'm thrilled to have my registration go through this time. I've been trying for over a year and got nothing but "an error has occurred".
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - TheFarm07 - 02-15-2016
Missing those 5 free throws will haunt us, having a low free throw percentage proved critical last night. Yea, beyond the drama of the game, there were little things that still bug me, whether it was execution or the right play. I know it's funny to say, considering we were down 17 early in the third quarter and it was nice seeing them come back, but I'm not much for moral victories and we should have closed that rally with a win.
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - mbdude - 02-15-2016
(02-15-2016, 12:31 AM)TheFarm07 link Wrote:I liked the way we fought back, and even though we tied the game and sent it to overtime, we had a couple empty possessions when the ball again got stuck in a guard's hands and there was nowhere to go. Plus the in-bounding turnovers, whether they be the 5-second calls or the immediate tip/turnover really hurt us.
Lili's off-shooting nights are really hurting us. I rather see her have more consistency than explode for a game or two and then miss everything for the next five games.
Where was Kaylee second half of the game?
Also, the announcers commented that we looked tired on defense, I don't know if anyone saw that at the game, but Tara did not substitute really in the 4th quarter and OT, until Lili fouling out forced her too. I know defensively that was probably our best lineup, but you think she would give a player or two a breather. Is McPhee and/or Smith that unreliable on defense to put in for a couple minutes?
I would also to like to know why Kaylee didn't come back in. Brittany and Alanna should have played more in 2nd half - while they were in degense was as good or better than starters. They enetered 2 nd qyr at 7 mimute mark with score 27-19 asu, they exited at 1:44 with score 32-25; the starters promptly gave up 6 straight points to end half
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - fishman - 02-15-2016
Great team effort, especially on defense and a heartbreaker at the end.
The question about why no Kaylee is also a question about why so much Kailee. Kailee must be in solely for her defense because for her size she is a lousy rebounder (4 rbs in 34 mins last night) with weak hands and a tendency to have the ball ripped away as mentioned before. Also she's just not a scrapper under the boards. She's clearly also an offensive liability with little inclination to shoot or drive, looking to get rid of the ball whenever she gets it. Her two inbounds turnovers were deer-in-the-headlights moments that cost us two critical possessions in an incredibly tight game.Â
Basketball is largely a game of instincts and she just doesn't have them, making her too tentative and mechanical. Kaylee is obviously a way better rebounder and a somewhat greater offensive threat, especially because she does grab offensive boards for putback opportunities. Is she such a dropoff on defense from Kailee to warrant sitting for so long?Â
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - JJJ - 02-15-2016
I just watched my recording for the first time. Not that they would've called it, but it looked to me like Brunner was in the paint for over 3 seconds on that final play. What a game! I was exhausted after watching it, even though I already knew the score!
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - 76lsjumb - 02-15-2016
(02-15-2016, 03:49 PM)garvin link Wrote:Quote:Why on why did we not pressure them bringing up the ball at the end of OT? We let them charge up and get a great shot.
I was screaming this so hard during the play my girlfriend thought I was having a stroke. Impeding the ball even a tiny bit -- a half-second or even less -- would have forced Arizona to put up a much less desirable shot.
And I don't understand why a player about to lose a five-second count on an inbounds play doesn't just toss the ball up in the air and let everybody on the court fight it out. Worst-case scenario, you lose the ball...which is going to happen anyway.
Well, of course, it was all Johnny Dawkins' fault...or, at least, it would have been if this had been the men's team, right?
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - 2006alum - 02-15-2016
(02-15-2016, 06:13 PM)76lsjumb link Wrote:Well, of course, it was all Johnny Dawkins' fault...or, at least, it would have been if this had been the men's team, right?
Well, for me the difference is that the team's weaknesses are less about coaching than about player instincts - while you can teach players to avoid the above-mentioned mistakes, in the moment, the player either has the instinct for what to do, or they don't.
Here's why I give Tara a lot of credit:
-Our ranking over the last two years (somewhere around 10-15) has met or exceeded our average class recruiting rankings (sub-top-20 in 2015, 10 in 2014, 6 in 2013, and sub-top-20 in 2013), especially considering the medical retirement of one top recruit (Beebe), another very good player (Kokenis) and the transfer of another top recruit who was inexplicably unable to transfer her game to Stanford (Rooks).
-We regularly play better in the second half, once the coaches can make half-time adjustments. And our first quarter is often our worst, where it's too early for Tara to adjust to the other team's schemes.
-We play better the first game of the weekend, when there's been more time for scouting and preparation.
-Even years where we're besides ourselves with frustration (like this year), we're still safely in the Top 25. We haven't missed the big dance ONCE in Tara's entire tenure at Stanford.
By comparison, Dawkins has had multiple NBA draft players but little to show for it. He regularly lets his teams decay over the conference season and fizzle out where good coaching would have them peaking, and he has gotten us to ONE tournament in 8 years. Whereas between 1994 and 2008, we MISSED the tournament only ONCE.
So as far as I'm concerned, there's no comparison. When I was an undergrad in the early aughts, I was a die-hard men's fan and a very, very casual women's fan. Over the last decade, I've reversed, because rooting for our men's team just leads to a lot of heartache and frustration in February and March, with one fluke year exempted. Even in our mediocre years, watching Tara try to unlock her team's jigsaw puzzle is a lot of fun. I've arguably been more engaged the past two years than the prior Ogwumike years where we were kind of on coaching autopilot.
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - TheFarm07 - 02-15-2016
(02-15-2016, 06:13 PM)76lsjumb link Wrote:[quote author=garvin link=topic=14610.msg156583#msg156583 date=1455576565]
Quote:Why on why did we not pressure them bringing up the ball at the end of OT? We let them charge up and get a great shot.
I was screaming this so hard during the play my girlfriend thought I was having a stroke. Impeding the ball even a tiny bit -- a half-second or even less -- would have forced Arizona to put up a much less desirable shot.
And I don't understand why a player about to lose a five-second count on an inbounds play doesn't just toss the ball up in the air and let everybody on the court fight it out. Worst-case scenario, you lose the ball...which is going to happen anyway.
Well, of course, it was all Johnny Dawkins' fault...or, at least, it would have been if this had been the men's team, right?
[/quote]
A mediocre/bad coach can make the occasional brilliant move while a HoF coach can make the occasional questionable move as well. No one is infallible. As fans, we can still question decisions made by even the most decorated of coaches. Tara's credentials are impeccable and there are few other coaches I would rather have besides her, if any. But, especially during this frustrating season, little things are more magnified. It's easier to overlook 5-sec. inbounding trouble when you are 25-1 and dominating the conference as we did a few years ago than 20-6 and trying to claw our way back up to the top of the standings.
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - 81alum - 02-15-2016
A few quotes.
Quote:"Erica showed so much heart," Cardinal coach Tara VanDerveer said. "She gave us everything. We have never said to get the ball to Bird but this is you're going to see more of."
Quote:"I'm proud of the fight and how we battled back, especially in the fourth quarter," VanDerveer said. "We needed to execute a little better at the end. Unfortunately we dug ourselves a hole."
Quote:"We need to rebound better," VanDerveer said. "They are physical and we have to be more physical. I was disappointed with how we started, with the fouls and not being aggressive. We didn't do a good job on the O-boards."
Quote:"We have four losses with four games to play," VanDerveer said. "It's not inconceivable but it's not looking good. I still think this was a big step for us. There's not shame in losing to ASU. We can build on things."
Quote:"Kailee's stuff is subtle," VanDerveer said. "She sets screens and plays defenses.
http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2016/02/14/mccalls-effort-not-enough-for-stanford-women-in-loss-to-asu
Re: WBB: Arizona State 63 Stanford 61 1OT - TheFarm07 - 02-15-2016
From those quotes, it seems like Tara values Kailee's "little things" than more obvious things that may show up a stat sheet, but it is unsatisfying given Kaylee's little play time and the in-bounding issues we had that robbed us of valuable possessions at the end of the game.