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WBB All-Century team thoughts - M T - 02-22-2016

The WBB all-century team comes out this week, if I recall correctly.  They've been touting it during the televised games.  I don't know how many will be on the "team".  We should be prepared for some surprise omissions.  I'm sure there's no doubt about Coach of the Century (but note that 31-time conference champion & 20-time conference Coach of the Year Skip Kenney was overlooked).  But there have been many great players, being a first-round WNBA pick may not be enough. I feel Stanford itself could have at least 5 all-century players, but you know they're going to try to spread them around.

I don't know the earliest days of Stanford or PAC-n basketball, so I can't comment earlier than the mid-1980s.  And, I'm not going to judge about the players on the other teams (except one).

I can't imagine an all-century team without Jennifer Azzi.  Yeah, she led Stanford to the first national title, but more than that, she helped to get WBB into the pros.  She had such a pretty shot.  The only knock on Jennifer is that she is from the crowded field at Stanford, and the fog of the years.

Val Whiting was the top scorer for the 1992 NC team.  But, to be honest, I don't think of her as an all-century player.  Maybe I'm just losing my memory; after all, she did win a NC.

Kate Starbird held the Stanford scoring record for a decade until 2008.  But she didn't go high in the draft, and wasn't a standout in the pros.  Maybe gets in about 10th - 15th?

Kristin Folkl.  She had talent and was fun to watch.  If there was ever a player who got the short shrift from Tara, it was her.  And still she was great.  Six Final Fours, three NCs, but still probably not (in WBB -- she did get all-Century in WVB).

Nicole Powell.  I always thought she was under-appreciated.  She made everyone else on the team better.  According to Wikipedia, she's the only PAC-12 WBB player to have multiple triple doubles in a single year.  She was picked #3 in the draft, and got stuck with a coach that didn't seem to appreciate her. She was traded and became the Most Improved Player (really, a function of a coach that knew her value and played her).  I'd guess she'd be chosen about #10.

Candice.  (Yeah, she's got a last name, but doesn't need it.  You just need to remember the "i".)  She may have a record for the longest personal Wikipedia page in WBB.  Again, she was a 3rd overall pick in the draft.  She's been good in the pros, but not quite as good as I'd hoped.  And if her talent isn't quite enough, she's got charisma on her side.  A good possibility, but not a given to be in the top 5, if only because the voters will be looking to avoid a Stanford near-sweep.

Nneka.  Yep, she's going to be top-5.  Besides all she did at Stanford, she was a #1 draft pick and WNBA Rookie of the Year.

Chiney.  Defensive player of the year;  Offensive player of the year;  #1 draft pick .....

Ah, what the heck.  Maybe Stanford will get a near-sweep of the top 5.  (My ordering: Nneka/Chiney, Azzi, [Cheryl Miller], Candice, but I'd give Azzi a chance at player of the century, if people can't pick between Nneka & Chiney but do feel it should be a Stanford player.)

Seriously, the knock against Chiney/Nneka/Candice is that Stanford was always the bridesmaid.  Some of the other teams will vote for ABS (Anyone But Stanford) so someone is liable to get knocked out.  That may mean that the ABS top-vote award will go to Cheryl Miller.  How can anyone vote for one Ogwumike and not the other?  But I suspect it will happen.    Some might forget what all Azzi did beyond her Stanford contributions, benefiting all WBB players.

There have been lots of other really good players at Stanford that some might think were at or near the top of their year, but I'm really skimming the very top of the cream here.


Re: WBB All-Century team thoughts - Leftcoast - 02-22-2016

We'll have plenty of players on the squad but I'd be shocked if the Pac 12's WBB Player of the Century wasn't wearing US.C colors.  Which Troj.an is less clear but you'll see Lisa Leslie's or Cheryl Miller's name on the trophy.  Both were outstanding conference players who also routinely split nods as the greatest women basketball players of all time.  US.C's Cynthia Cooper won't be far behind.

If you want Stanford domination look no further than the Pac 12 All-Century volleyball team where the Cardinal have 9 players suiting up.  The next highest total for a school is a tie for two players between US.C and Washington.  Logan Tom got the nod as Player of the Century.

http://pac-12.com/article/2015/10/27/pac-12-all-century-womens-volleyball-team-revealed


Check: dom.ination = domination.  Haven't noticed THAT before.


Re: WBB All-Century team thoughts - Spiny_Norman - 02-22-2016

I think Ann Meyers should get some consideration as PotC.  4 time All American.  Only woman ever to record a quadruple double.  National champ, national player or the year and outstanding women's athlete across all sports her senior year.  She was a transcendent talent.

Re: WBB All-Century team thoughts - 82lsju - 02-22-2016

(02-22-2016, 12:11 PM)garvin link Wrote:Though I never saw the women's team play before Tara VanderVeer arrived, there's little in the records to suggest that anybody from that era has been unfairly left out, with one possible exception: Jeanne Ruark Hoff, who scored 2008 points from 1978 to 1983. She was Stanford's all-time leading scorer for many years and even today ranks No. 8. Did anybody here see her play? Can you tell us anything about her? I don't even know what position she played. though her .586 career shooting percentage (No. 2 all-time) and 908 rebounds (No. 7) suggest she was a post.

Hoff is the first woman in Stanford's history to tally more than 2000 points. The powerful forward has a devastating jumpshot from up to 20 feet. "Shooting definitely is my forte. I'm not a great defensive player," Hoft said.

http://stanforddailyarchive.com/cgi-bin/stanford?a=d&d=stanford19830309-01.2.61#

Re: WBB All-Century team thoughts - 81alum - 02-22-2016

I have heard Tara mention Hoff--so Tara doesn't overlook her.

Frankly, I have not followed the whole "team of the century" thing.  Is this of the twentieth or the twenty-first century?  Or of the last 100 years, which is not properly a century?  And is this of the Pac 12/10/8?


Re: WBB All-Century team thoughts - 82lsju - 02-22-2016

(02-22-2016, 09:36 PM)81alum link Wrote:I have heard Tara mention Hoff--so Tara doesn't overlook her.

Frankly, I have not followed the whole "team of the century" thing.  Is this of the twentieth or the twenty-first century?  Or of the last 100 years, which is not properly a century?  And is this of the Pac 12/10/8?

the Pac-12 is celebrating 100 year of existence including the predecessor orgs

http://pac-12.com/article/2015/07/29/pac-12-set-celebrate-100-years-excellence

Re: WBB All-Century team thoughts - 81alum - 02-23-2016

OK, I get it now.

I've tried to find a website with Pac 12 WBB records on it, with no luck.  Easy to find the Stanford records, but where does one go to look over the Pac 12/10/8 records?

I did find some NCAA record books and came across some interesting tidbits.  Clearly Cheryl Miller and Lisa Leslie will be in there.

I would think Chiney, Nneka, Nicole Powell, Candice, and Jennifer Azzi are locks if it is a complete 15 person team.

Kate Starbird, Jayne Appel, Val Whiting would be strong possibles.

Kayla Pederson, Sonya Henning, and Jeanette Pohlen I would suggest as candidates but I'm not sure how their stats will compare.

When snooping around the NCAA record books, two things unrelated to an all-star team struck me.

In 1990 Stanford averaged 92.8 ppg and 23 apg.  Tara early in her career was an offensive-minded coach.  Lately she is referred to as a defensive-minded coach.  Not sure whether the game has change, whether Tara's philosophy has change, whether its just her personnel that have changed--but something has definitely changed.

The other thing I noticed was a list of years Stanford finished in the national polls.  Here are the years we finished in the top 20:
1988
1989
1990
1991
1992
1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1998
2002*
2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
Note that there was a three year downturn in the middle of Tara's career.  I am beginning to think that over a 30 year career, the recruiting pool and random player decisions are just going to create the occasional downturn.  It may have nothing at all to do with coaching or the quality or effort of recruiting--but just probabilities.  I do know there was a theory that the prior downturn was somehow related to the year Tara was away coaching the Olympics, but I never really bought that.



Re: WBB All-Century team thoughts - BobK - 02-23-2016

Actually we had several top 10 players in that downturn.  Chandra Benton being one.  She didn't appear to be top 10 when she played her of course, and then had to leave the team.  Now a school teacher at a HS in Oregon. 

Re: WBB All-Century team thoughts - 81alum - 02-23-2016

(02-23-2016, 08:28 AM)BobK link Wrote:Actually we had several top 10 players in that downturn.  Chandra Benton being one.  She didn't appear to be top 10 when she played her of course, and then had to leave the team.  Now a school teacher at a HS in Oregon.
Nicole Powell came in as a freshman in 2000-01 and started the climb out.  Candice came in as a freshman the year after Nicole graduated, and the string of WNBA stars was continuous from 2000 until Chiney graduated in 2014.  2000-2014 is not a bad run for that kind of talent.

After 1997-8 we graduated Folkl, Olympia Scott, and Vanessa Nygaard and we did not get Nicole Powell until she came in as a freshman in 2001.  So 1998-99 and 1999-2000  were the two years devoid of WNBA type talent, and it showed.  In 99-00 we were 21-9, 13-5 in conference.  We lost to ASU, Washington, Oregon, UCLA, and Arizona--but we also beat all those teams.  We lost a relatively close game to Tennessee earlier in the year, and followed that up with a disastrous road trip in which we lost to Massachusetts and St. Joseph's.  After our mediocre conference play, we got to the NCAAs where we beat Michigan in OT and got crushed by Georgia in round 2. 

The main starters that year were:

Carolyn Moos 12.3 ppg  A 6'6" center.  One of six finalists for the high school Naismith and played for the USA junior Olympic team before Stanford. At Stanford she went over 2000 pts and 1000 rebounds.   Also became Jason Collins' fiance, but Jason called off the wedding a month before the wedding date for reasons that are now clearer.

Milena Flores 11.3 ppg  Point guard.  Currently an assistant with Princeton.  Cousin to Mike Cordova.  A very good Seattle area player in high school but not nationally known.  One of our assists leaders.
http://articles.latimes.com/2000/feb/06/sports/sp-61760

Jamie Carey 11.0 ppg.  Brilliant three point shooting guard and broke our three point shooting records, but even this year she was becoming injury plagued, leading to her eventual retirement, transfer to Texas, and renewel of her career.  She did play in the WNBA for several years in what has to be considered one of the more foolish risks for an underpaid athlete.
http://www.gostanford.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=30600&ATCLID=208085755

Bethany Donaphin 9.6 ppg.  A very good NYC area high school player but no national awards.  A good rebounding power forward.  She did play in the WNBA for a year and then in Italy. 
http://www.paloaltoonline.com/weekly/morgue/sports/1999_Jan_8.GALSHOOP.html

Lauren St. Clair 9.3 ppg.  A Parade 2nd team All American in high school.  Good three point shooter. 
http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/St-Clair-Shooting-Lights-Out-Stanford-star-is-2809453.php

In looking this team over, I think its overall talent level might be roughly comparable to our team today.  Moos is probably on par with McCall, St. Clair  or Jamie Carey similar to Karlie, Milena to Lili, Bethany probably similar to Kaylee--all these comparisons not on the basis of their style or body types, but on the basis of their high school reputations.  That team had some serious early season setbacks similar to us--it lost to Tennessee, we lost to Texas; it lost those two east coast games, we lost to Santa Clara.  It scattered five losses in the league,  we seem to be about on roughly the same track.  Let's hope we get at least one game further into the NCAAs than they did. 

In short, I think we have been here before--not an exact comparison, but there are quite a few similarities.


Re: WBB All-Century team thoughts - BobK - 02-23-2016

Methinks you should re add Moos' totals

Re: WBB All-Century team thoughts - 81alum - 02-23-2016

(02-23-2016, 10:12 PM)BobK link Wrote:Methinks you should re add Moos' totals
Yep, not sure where the 2000/1000 reference came from--she probably did that in high school.

I found this Youtube of her highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ99ZCE9DGM

She reminds me a lot of Quinn Dornstauder of ASU.

Re: WBB All-Century team thoughts - CompSci87 - 02-24-2016

A little number trivia: Moos is the only Stanford WBB player ever to wear #53, generally a rather unpopular number.

The only NCAA legal numbers that have never been worn at Stanford are 45 and 54.

(Recent media guides list Anita Kaplan and Naila Moseley as 54, but that's an error. Older guides list them as 55, and last time I got onto this number trivia kick someone found pictures of Kaplan wearing 55 to corroborate the older guides.)