The CardBoard
AYFKM - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: AYFKM (/thread-13374.html)

Pages: 1 2

AYFKM - BostonCard - 01-15-2017

So after Kansas City's missed two point conversion, Pittsburgh gets the ball dep in their own side of the field (5 or so yard line) with a little more than 2 minutes left and KC with no time outs left. After the first down play gets 3 or so yards on a LeVeon Bell carry, Pittsburgh should be able to take the clock down to the two minute warning so long as they don't stop the clock with an incompletion or out of bounds play.

So, what does Pittsburgh do on second down?  AYFKM?  They throw a pass! And complete it, taking the clock down to the two minute warning and bringing up third and short.  Surely on third down, the Steelers will run for the first down, no?  AYFKM?  They pass, and get a first down.  Ballgame.

Bottom line, it's only an AYFKM play if it doesn't work. If it works, then it's "gutsy". I personally would have run Bell behind a pulling DeCastro.  But give Tomlin credit, he passed when he probably "should have" rushed, and he is going on to the AFC championship.

BC



Re: AYFKM - Goose - 01-15-2017

(01-15-2017, 09:51 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:Bottom line, it's only an AYFKM play if it doesn't work. If it works, then it's "gutsy". I personally would have run Bell behind a pulling DeCastro.  But give Tomlin credit, he passed when he probably "should have" rushed, and he is going on to the AFC championship.
BC
Amen! And BZ for posting this.

Re: AYFKM - OutsiderFan - 01-16-2017

Mike Tomlin has brass balls, one of the most aggressive coaches in the NFL.  I'm going to take exception to the notion it's not smart to pass the ball in that situation, namely because though what you see there are two plays in crunch time, you need to look at how those play calls are just a manifestation of the team's identity forged over the season.

Teams that are willing to make those play calls don't do it all of a sudden when not used to it.  A coach only let's his team call what seem like risky plays when his team has the confidence to execute them because they have been being bold all season. But you tell me, was it riskier to pass the ball against a defense geared to stop the run and potentially stop the clock with an incompletion, or riskier to run into a defense expecting run, be stopped, and then be forced to punt from your own end zone, to a team that could beat you with a FG?  Keep in mind, KC would have got the ball back with about 1:30 around midfield with a punt.

Mike Tomlin has been going for 2pt conversions and making "risky" calls all season.  This has given his team confidence to go for the jugular like they did in Kansas City on two potentially game deciding plays.  If you're at maybe your own 30+, you run the ball.  But it was virtually a situation where Pittsburgh needed a first down to win, so they decided to call plays based on what would give them the best chance for the first down, not worrying about the clock. 

It pisses me off when coaches play the clock and timeout situation when the reality is they need a first down to win a game.  You control your own destiny when you need one first down.  You play your best defense by playing your best offense when you have the opportunity and keeping the ball from the other team.  I was not surprised one iota that Tomlin allowed pass plays to be called in that situation because that is who he is, and he gets it.

Re: AYFKM - stupac2 - 01-16-2017

The real "AYFKM" in that series was having Justin Houston drop into a zone in front of probably the best receiver in the NFL when sending a jailhouse blitz. Don't need your best pass rusher there!

Just Andy Reid things.

Re: AYFKM - OutsiderFan - 01-16-2017

(01-16-2017, 09:30 AM)stupac2 link Wrote:The real "AYFKM" in that series was having Justin Houston drop into a zone in front of probably the best receiver in the NFL when sending a jailhouse blitz. Don't need your best pass rusher there!

Just Andy Reid things.

This.  And they also had Houston covering Brown deep down the left sideline in the first half.  I'm no Defensive Coordinator, but I am capable enough to never design a defense that gives my OLB man to man coverage responsibility on a WR, let alone one of the best in the game.  Drop the OLB into a zone with DBs behind, OK, but make him cover the WR 40 yards downfield and you give up a 52 yard pass play.

Re: AYFKM - BostonCard - 01-16-2017

OF, my tongue was firmly in cheek when I wrote that it was an AYFKM call; in reaction to comments that Shaw's call for a pass on second and short late in the USC game a few years ago also deserved the moniker.  It was a gutsy call and would have been even if he hadn't converted it.  But some people think if you don't run when the situation calls on it, you are a poor play caller.

BC

Re: AYFKM - fullmetal - 01-16-2017

If Tomlin thought that KC had brought in the heavy package with no one able to cover a WR, then a pass would be the best option there.  If KC had brought in their dime package, I guarantee you DeCastro and Bell would have had a field day on those two plays.

Re: AYFKM - Duck Tears - 01-16-2017

When your season comes down a handful of plays the goal is to:
1) Give the ball to your best player (Antonio Brown)
2) Exploit a mismatch (Brown caught the 3rd-and-4 pass against a linebacker)

How many times did Stanford in 2012 go to the Zach Ertz well? Brown: NFL wideouts Ertz: college tight ends in 2012. Peerless.




Re: AYFKM - Farm93 - 01-16-2017

I watched a Steelers game earlier in the season.  Maybe it was last season.  The NFL seasons all merge together for me.

In any event.  Tomlin had the lead, the team just needed to do simple things to run out the clock.  Tomlin made some aggressive play or two.  Those failed.  The other team got the ball and then won thanks to the extra time they got from the aggressive playcalling failures.

On the headset as the game was ending you could see him tell his staff in the booth "That loss is on me".

That blame is on me thing works great if you have a community that understands you are a winning coach, but sometimes losses happen.  Or at least there are enough people in power that value him that he doesn't need to worry about the opinion of fans on chat boards.

And much like this board for Shaw, I doubt Tomlin reads those chat boards.

Not many winning more than Tomlin, though there are a few.
Not many winning more than Shaw, though there are a few.

They coach the way they believe they can be successful.  The loss is on them, and they move on knowing they are more successful than most.  Each game is a 50/50 deal, so if you are winning more than 50% of the time you are doing more right than many other coaches.

Re: AYFKM - Mick - 01-16-2017

(01-16-2017, 04:43 PM)Farm93 link Wrote:On the headset as the game was ending you could see him tell his staff in the booth "That loss is on me".

That blame is on me thing works great if you have a community that understands you are a winning coach, but sometimes losses happen.  Or at least there are enough people in power that value him that he doesn't need to worry about the opinion of fans on chat boards.


I wonder how many times Eddie D. wanted to fire Bill Walsh.  I know it was more than twice, that Carmen Policy and/or John McVay talked him down from his tree.

Re: AYFKM - Duck Tears - 01-17-2017

(01-16-2017, 06:48 PM)Mick link Wrote:[quote author=Farm93 link=topic=16457.msg186663#msg186663 date=1484610206]
On the headset as the game was ending you could see him tell his staff in the booth "That loss is on me".

That blame is on me thing works great if you have a community that understands you are a winning coach, but sometimes losses happen.  Or at least there are enough people in power that value him that he doesn't need to worry about the opinion of fans on chat boards.


I wonder how many times Eddie D. wanted to fire Bill Walsh.  I know it was more than twice, that Carmen Policy and/or John McVay talked him down from his tree.
[/quote]

So true: If Eddie had his way -- and Walsh had followed through -- Walsh would have resigned after the 1982 losing season and handed the keys to former Stanford assistant/Cal figurehead coach Mike White.

Re: AYFKM - Sea Loon - 01-17-2017

Speaking of end-of-game situations and aggressiveness, I'm curious what you think about the ending to the Rose Bowl. Tie game, time running out, Penn St is in their own territory. They could run out the clock and play for OT, but they end up throwing (twice, I think), get picked off, USC gets a good return, moves into field goal position, and the rest is history.

I think we'd agree that Shaw's style would have been to run it 3 times, if you don't get anything, then play for OT. But Penn St went throwing, and it obviously didn't work out. I didn't scour Penn St boards or newspapers to see if the decision making was questioned.

Sort of goes with BC's original point, if you make it you seem 'gutsy'; if not...

Re: AYFKM - CowboyIndian - 01-17-2017

(01-17-2017, 09:36 AM)Sea Loon link Wrote:if you make it you seem 'gusty'; if not...

Wind-aided, of course.

Re: AYFKM - CompSci87 - 01-17-2017

(01-17-2017, 10:24 AM)CowboyIndian link Wrote:[quote author=Sea Loon link=topic=16457.msg186722#msg186722 date=1484670986]
if you make it you seem 'gusty'; if not...
[/quote]

If not... you blew it.

Re: AYFKM - Sea Loon - 01-17-2017

I think that typo got blown out of proportion?

Re: AYFKM - Mick - 01-17-2017

(01-17-2017, 12:51 PM)Sea Loon link Wrote:I think that typo got blown out of proportion?


Just a small zephyr that wafted away with the breeze....

Re: AYFKM - fullmetal - 01-17-2017

Die Luft der Freiheit weht

Re: AYFKM - teejers1 - 01-18-2017

BC, you go on clinging to your belief that any play call is a good one because it has at least a chance of working (and that any criticism is only 20-20 hindsight after a play 'doesn't work').  Cue up scene in "Dumb and Dumber" ("So you're telling me there's a chance . . .").

I'll continue to try and bring a dose of reality to this board when it comes to AYFKM calls by this staff, which most assuredly includes the second and two pass play against SC.



Re: AYFKM - CowboyIndian - 01-18-2017

(01-18-2017, 12:45 PM)teejers1 link Wrote:BC, you go on clinging to your belief that any play call is a good one because it has at least a chance of working (and that any criticism is only 20-20 hindsight after a play 'doesn't work').  Cue up scene in "Dumb and Dumber" ("So you're telling me there's a chance . . .").

I'll continue to try and bring a dose of reality to this board when it comes to AYFKM calls by this staff, which most assuredly includes the second and two pass play against SC.

Thanks for the reality check, although, if your past board fulminations are an indicator, your reality seems to consist of about 3 plays over the course of the past several years. It seems pretty likely that any program in the country isn't going to bat 1.000 there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHT0qUpLxMI

Re: AYFKM - BostonCard - 01-18-2017

Teejers, you mischaracterize my position.  It is based on the following:

1) We should generally run plays to our strengths.  So, yeah, over the last few years we have had a power running offense, and we have run more often than passed. But...

2) We should generally tailor the play based on down, distance and game circumstances.  So, yeah, with 2 yards to go, we might want to run and get the first down, though the fact that it is second down would have allowed us to take a chance throwing downfield and still have a chance to run on third and short.  With that in mind...

3) We should adjust our playcall based on the defensive alignment, so that if the opponent brings their safeties up to defend against the run, we might again want to throw over the top, even if circumstances dictate otherwise (see for example, Colorado in 2015, where we scored a touchdown throwing from the jumbo set, or Oregon in 2012? where Hogan just overthrew a wide open receiver for what would have been a sure touchdown).  To be honest, I don't remember USC's defensive alignment.  Even then...

4) We should occasionally be unpredictable, running a draw on, say, third and long, just to keep the defense honest.

With those four principles in mind, we can speak of playcalling in aggregate.  For example, I think it was CTCard who made a compelling case that one of our problems in 2014 was that we tried to become a more pass happy team, and that our improved offensive play at the end of the year came from returning to our bread and butter power running.  But that analyzes plays in aggregate, without looking at a single play and determining that it was or was not "the right call".  With all but a few exceptions, though, I think we are not in a position to call an individual play "AYFKM", and, on that particular play I still believe that throwing on second and short is well founded by data.

BC