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Another Pac-12 preview article...... - Printable Version

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Another Pac-12 preview article...... - JohnR34231 - 07-26-2017

........another sloppy job of reporting on Stanford.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-pac-12-north-20170725-story.html

The author leaves KJ out of the quarterback mix and refers to Davis Mills as "David".






It is a "Fair Enough" Article But a Bit Incomplete - AncientCityIndian - 07-26-2017

What I would add:

Washington lost 3 of 4 members of the best secondary in the conference.

USC has lost 11 starters including most of its O line and its two best big play guys, Simon-Schuster and Jackson.  A few key D guys were lost, also, especially in the D line.

Oregon`s D has a few good players but will likely still give up 30 points plus per game.

Washington State lost its entire receiving corps sans one player.

Stanford`s D is better than advertised because not only the secondary but the linebacking also will be exceptional (as long as Phillips stays healthy to clog up the middle.).  Stanford`s O Line will be dominant all season long against every opponent, acquitting themselves well against even the front 7`s of Utah and Washington, the two best in the conference.

If I am correct in my evaluation, Stanford will surprise USC early and then the winner of the Stanford/Husky game will play USC in the championship game.

Re: It is a "Fair Enough" Article But a Bit Incomplete - Goose - 07-26-2017

(07-26-2017, 07:54 AM)AncientCityIndian link Wrote:Stanford`s D is better than advertised because not only the secondary but the linebacking also will be exceptional (as long as Phillips stays healthy to clog up the middle.).
What I would add:
Phillips will need some help. He can't play every down. We will need other players to be at least serviceable.
Quote: Stanford`s O Line will be dominant all season long against every opponent, acquitting themselves well against even the front 7`s of Utah and Washington, the two best in the conference.
That certainly could happen. We have the guys who could be that good. We have some new guys that can help. But now, they just have to do it.

Quote:If I am correct in my evaluation, Stanford will surprise Under Stanford Control (again) early and then the winner of the Stanford/Husky game will play Under Stanford Control (again) in the championship game.
I agree with you about USC. I think we will win that one. Washington will be a war. Naturally, we have to be concerned about a loss to some team that we think we should beat, as we have a bit of a habit with that. Hopefully, we have outgrown that tendency.

Re: Another Pac-12 preview article...... - ADPATERSON - 07-26-2017

Agree with ACI and Goose.
But here is the upside on DLine: 
1) On run downs give Phillips support with the two biggest guys: DWPerry at NT, plus Big Mike Williams in the 3-4.
Plattoon with Swann, Jackson, Cotton.  Watch for Ryan Johnson to come on sooner at DE.  Quick moves.
2) The LBs go 7-8 deep with little drop off.  One blitzes for pressure.  They tackle well, TFLs.  And some Hurries, TOs.
With the LB talent, on 3rd and anything beyond 5 vs the Pass-first teams we go into a 2-5-4 set some of the time.
All this means fresher legs upfront in Q4. 
3) The DBs are best set we have ever fielded; that can mean coverage sacks, turnovers on Hurries -- Offense gets the ball sooner.
Fewer downs played by DLine.  We squeeze teams like a boa constrictor with time consuming drives.
So, teams that run well pose biggest challenge:  WASH, UTAH, maybe NDAM.  Not SC nor UCLA, WAST, or CALSucks.  Ducks? = TBD

Re: Another Pac-12 preview article...... - Goose - 07-26-2017

(07-26-2017, 08:05 PM)ADPATERSON link Wrote:Fewer downs played by DLine.  We squeeze teams like a boa constrictor with time consuming drives.
Agree. That has to happen, and is basically always part of the plan with our offensive approach. If we can run the ball on most downs, we WILL win. If we can run the ball in spurts, we CAN win.
Quote:So, teams that run well pose biggest challenge:  WASH, UTAH, maybe NDAM.  Not SC nor UCLA, WAST, or CALSucks.  Ducks? = TBD
Mostly agree, except I think USC may be capable of running the ball if they try. The Ducks have a very good back, but their offense is more geared to wide line splits and getting the backs out in space. That is what our linebackers feed on, so I am less worried about the DL there. I don't think Oregon either wants to or can grind it out with anybody. SC on the other hand has an inexperienced line, but a line that at least on paper could grind with most people. They have shown, up to now, a marked lack of wanting to do that. Probably this is because it doesn't play to Darnold's strength and certainly with their great wide receivers last year it made less sense. However, if they do commit to the run against us, it could be interesting. OTOH, I don't, in my heart of hearts, expect them to do that.

One Nit With AD - AncientCityIndian - 07-27-2017

Washington St, IMO, may not have ND`s talent top to bottom but they are better coached by far and much better at the QB and DL positions.  I am more worried about them on the road after another road game in Corvallis than playing ND at home and only 6 days before we play the Huskies.  We cannot afford to look past them.  They beat us up pretty badly last year.

Re: One Nit With AD - Goose - 07-27-2017

(07-27-2017, 02:11 AM)AncientCityIndian link Wrote:Washington St, IMO, may not have ND`s talent top to bottom but they are better coached by far and much better at the QB and DL positions.  I am more worried about them on the road after another road game in Corvallis than playing ND at home and only 6 days before we play the Huskies.  We cannot afford to look past them.  They beat us up pretty badly last year.
They beat us up last year, and a missed field goal saved us the year before. They won't do it on the ground however. We should match up much better on defense this year. However, up there strange things can happen. I don't expect us to look past them, given the recent history, but we can't play below average and expect to win.

At the Risk of Sounding Too Repetitive - AncientCityIndian - 07-27-2017

we all pretty much understand clearly what the challenges are this year.  I think Washington is clearly our #1 challenge and because of the altitude, history, front 7 on D and venue, I think Utah is our #2 challenge.  It is between USC and Washington St in my opinion for different reasons as #3 and #4.

I am just amazed how a late season run and the LA hype has placed USC in nearly everyone`s preseason top 5 despite the loss of 11 starters.  I am sure Darnold is outstanding and all that but Stanford matches up really well against USC given our ability to pass rush and the overwhelming talent of our secondary.  I just have to believe our CB`s will be up to the challenge of covering newbie receivers pretty closely and force Darnold to hold on to the ball longer than he is used to.  On O, we have the ability both to control the LOS with a dominant running attack and also the ability to stretch the field with a strong armed and accurate passer and some very exceptional WR`s and TE`s.  They should be more worried about stopping us.

We get Falk later in the year when his newbie receivers will have 2/3 of a season under their belt and we are on the road. 

No question that running the table will be difficult but a healthy Chryst playing at his best  makes it at least not out of the question.  While 11-1 or 10-2 are both statistically more probable, I am extremely optimistic as is my nature.  I feel certain Sarell and Little will make a prominent difference at some point, hopefully early, while Wedington and St Brown could very well contribute as frosh.

Re: Another Pac-12 preview article...... - OutsiderFan - 07-27-2017

Have a real difficult time believing Utah can easily replace 8 guys and 4/5 of its starting OL drafted into the NFL, the most players drafted of any Pac-12 program in the 2017 NFL Draft.  They are not Ohio State, Alabama, or the like. 

Re: Another Pac-12 preview article...... - fullmetal - 07-27-2017

In the modern era, Utah is 2-0 vs. Stanford. 

2013: L 27-21 @UTAH
2014: L 20-17 @STAN

I'm not comfortable vs. the Utes until the game is over.

http://www.winsipedia.com/utah/vs/stanford

Re: At the Risk of Sounding Too Repetitive - Goose - 07-27-2017

(07-27-2017, 06:02 AM)AncientCityIndian link Wrote:we all pretty much understand clearly what the challenges are this year.  I think Washington is clearly our #1 challenge and because of the altitude, history, front 7 on D and venue, I think Utah is our #2 challenge.  It is between Under Stanford Control (again) and Washington St in my opinion for different reasons as #3 and #4.
Mostly agree. One could argue about USC and Utah, but there are enough unknowns about both that it is hard to say which will give US the most trouble. I think USC is probably overall the better team, but we may match up better against them.

Quote:
I am just amazed how a late season run and the LA hype has placed Under Stanford Control (again) in nearly everyone`s preseason top 5 despite the loss of 11 starters.  I am sure Darnold is outstanding and all that but Stanford matches up really well against Under Stanford Control (again) given our ability to pass rush and the overwhelming talent of our secondary.  I just have to believe our CB`s will be up to the challenge of covering newbie receivers pretty closely and force Darnold to hold on to the ball longer than he is used to.
I fully agree, and IF USC tries to win the game in the air, they won't. What worries me is that they will also agree and go after us on the ground. They have a new line, but experienced backs. How well can they run the ball? I would prefer not to find out.
Quote: On O, we have the ability both to control the LOS with a dominant running attack
Probably. We were able to run the ball last year against a defense that was rated higher than what they will have in game 2 this year. However, that rating was undoubtedly over-hyped as well. They also had some injuries after the Alabama beat-down.
Quote: and also the ability to stretch the field with a strong armed and accurate passer
A fact not yet in evidence. OTOH, we beat them last year without a great passing attack. One failure to cover a running back really hurt them though  ;D
Quote: and some very exceptional WR`s and TE`s.  They should be more worried about stopping us.

We get Falk later in the year when his newbie receivers will have 2/3 of a season under their belt and we are on the road.
WSU seems to start slow every year, and then get better, before fading  at the end. Hopefully they are on the down slope by then. However, unlike USC, running is for certain neither to their strength nor taste. We should match up well on defense. Last year, we were still hurting a bit. Most important, however, is  can we control the ball and limit their chances. Even the best defense will fail if Falk gets enough opportunities. Last year we couldn't. Their defense totally dominated our offense. That can't happen this year, especially up there.



Re: Another Pac-12 preview article...... - stupac2 - 07-27-2017

(07-27-2017, 06:14 AM)OutsiderFan link Wrote:Have a real difficult time believing Utah can easily replace 8 guys and 4/5 of its starting OL drafted into the NFL, the most players drafted of any Pac-12 program in the 2017 NFL Draft.  They are not Ohio State, Alabama, or the like.

Someone on /r/cfb pointed out that Utah sent seventeen players to the NFL last year. Sure, most of the were UDFAs and likely won't make rosters, but that's still absurd. That's most of an entire recruiting class! Hard to imagine they have the talent to fill that many holes, especially when they still don't have an offensive identity, but we'll see. Maybe Shasta can enlighten us about expectations for them this year.

Stupac2, just now saw your mention. TL/DR? Utah has the talent to be good but - 61_Shasta - 08-15-2017

may have the injuries to be really bad.

Practices are now totally closed to the public so I'm relying on what I hear second hand. Also, Utah isn't releasing depth charts during fall camp which I'm thinking could mean that some injuries may be more serious than they were represented. The key injury without question is starting Strong Safety Chase Hansen. The team issued a press release saying that Hansen would not practice with the team and when asked if Hansen would be ready for the opener Whitt only said that it would be "nice" to have him back, not that he expected him back. Completely unconfirmed rumors are either a sports hernia or a groin injury requiring surgery. But both of these come from the wife's friend who cuts the hair of the wife of an equipment manager who allegedly saw a website about (insert injury here) on one of the trainer's phone... You get the idea.

What is extremely disturbing is that Urban instigated and Whitt continued "The Pit". If an injured player is in the pit, the strength and conditioning personnel have them working parts of their bodies that aren't injured like a guy with a broken arm riding a bike, etc. Chase Hansen hasn't been spotted at practice at all from what I've heard. So with that said, here's the 61_Shasta probably way too long opinion on what you'll see in Salt Lake City in October. And hopefully you'll join us tailgating as well.

O-Line
As has been noted Utah put 4 guys into the league last year. That kind of talent is definitely hard to replace but one thing that I think benefits Utah is that Whitt believes strongly in an almost constant rotation of linemen so a lot of the 2's from last year have considerable experience in games. Garrett Bolles, last year's starting left tackle, will be starting as a rookie for the Broncos but some reports say his replacement has solidly locked down the spot. Major concern is projected starting C Lo Falemaka who missed most of last year and is not practicing at this time. Coach Whitt's policy is that he will only comment on injuries that are season ending and he's not saying anything so I'm hopeful Lo will be back. If he can't go Salesei Uhatafi moves from RG to C which puts a freshman at RG.

QB
The biggest head scratcher of the camp. Troy Williams started all 13 games last year IIRC and is listed as #1 on the depth chart but hasn't been named the starter. Coach Whitt says it's still an open competition among Williams, So. Tyler Huntley and Sr. transfer Cooper Bateman. Two different reports say that Bateman is definitely the best passer but has penchant for scrambling rivaled only by guys like Marino & Brady. Three steps for Bateman is a scramble. Huntly, on the other hand, can keep plays alive with his feet and isn't afraid to tuck it when a blitz comes or when he sees a hole. Williams is kind of a combination of the two, best described as good and a lot of things but not great at anything.

WR/TE
Ironically enough what has been the weak spot of the offense from day 1 of Whitt's tenure seems to be the strong point this year. Darren Carrington, the transfer from Oregon, is being called the #1 target and returning players are playing at a high enough level that highly touted WR Josh Nurse made the move from WR to Safety this week. The question is if the QB play will be at a high enough level to get the balls to this crew. Both TEs projected to see significant time were injured last year. Both Siale Fakailoatonga and Harrison Handley have shown great talent at times but both have been injury prone during their time at Utah. What will be interesting to see is if new OC Troy Taylor (yes, our 9th coordinator/coordinator combo in 13 years) will use both TEs at the same time as Utah has in the past.

RB
RB took a really bad hit when Armand Shyne injured himself in what Whitt is calling a "fluke" in practice. Whitt says the injury isn't season ending but he did say Shyne is "on the shelf for a long time." One of the players in a post-practice interview did make the remark that he feels sorry for Shyne because, "last year the knee, now the broken arm" but no one will confirm it.  The good news is that Zack Moss is back to 100% after missing three games and being obviously hampered in extremely limited action last year. Moss is a sophomore and is speed, speed and more speed. He's listed at 210 on the roster but if he played at 190 last year I'll be surprised. He's not the guy that can go up the middle and push the pile. Hopefully he's done a lot of video study this summer also. Playing as a true freshman last year he notoriously mis-read the gaps a number of times, most notably on the last play of the game against your friends across the bay when he tried to hit the B gap when there was a double team opening up the left A gap to where he could have walked in. After Moss it's Troy McCormick making yet another position change. McCormick began his career as a backup RB, then moved to slot receiver where he was expected to start. Yesterday Coach Whitt announced that Troy is now the #2 RB.

There's my $0.02 as far as the offense goes. More on the defense later. Can't wait for the game. I love playing Stanford because I enjoy how our strengths line up against each other so well.  It's going to be fun.

Re: Another Pac-12 preview article...... - fullmetal - 08-15-2017

Stanford may luck out with the injuries tilted against Utah, but let's put it this way: Utah sent seventeen players to the NFL, but were those guys obviously that talented coming into the program?  If not, then Stanford needs to watch out for the next crop of under-the-radar Ute future NFLers.  Clearly they have something going on, as evidenced by Stanford's 0-2 record against them in the two most recent matchups (okay, '13 and '14, but still).

Re: Another Pac-12 preview article...... - Hulk01 - 08-16-2017

I've seen Darnold play just twice--against Washington and Penn State.  Those viewings make me fear any offense with Sam and ten other capable players.

Re: Another Pac-12 preview article...... - Cbocgo1 - 08-16-2017

Thanks for your earlier reply RE: Hall

You are right on about sc - Jones & true Frosh Carter are dangerous - I hope we see them again this year - will be at game but not positive about outcome - Sam is the man

Q: why do so many Frosh seem to contribute at other schools whereas hardly ever here ?



Re: It is a "Fair Enough" Article But a Bit Incomplete - Chupacabra - 08-16-2017

We do not know these things. These opinions are possible but hardly fact. You know the old line, "if you have two quarterbacks that probably means you don't have one?

One has to consider the line, "If you have eight linebackers that probably means you don't have four."

(07-26-2017, 07:54 AM)AncientCityIndian link Wrote:Stanford`s D is better than advertised because not only the secondary but the linebacking also will be exceptional (as long as Phillips stays healthy to clog up the middle.).  Stanford`s O Line will be dominant all season long against every opponent, acquitting themselves well against even the front 7`s of Utah and Washington, the two best in the conference.


Re: It is a "Fair Enough" Article But a Bit Incomplete - JohnR34231 - 08-16-2017

(08-16-2017, 08:11 AM)Chupacabra link Wrote:We do not know these things. These opinions are possible but hardly fact. You know the old line, "if you have two quarterbacks that probably means you don't have one?

One has to consider the line, "If you have eight linebackers that probably means you don't have four."

[quote author=AncientCityIndian link=topic=17085.msg196006#msg196006 date=1501080885]


Stanford`s D is better than advertised because not only the secondary but the linebacking also will be exceptional (as long as Phillips stays healthy to clog up the middle.).  Stanford`s O Line will be dominant all season long against every opponent, acquitting themselves well against even the front 7`s of Utah and Washington, the two best in the conference.
[/quote]

Obviously no one really knows how good we are going to be this year. Time will tell, of course.
Given that, we can take a glass is half full or a glass is half empty approach. Speaking for myself, I would prefer the former, at least until proven otherwise.


Re: Another Pac-12 preview article...... - martyup - 08-17-2017

Darnold reminds me of this guy:

[Image: who-will-be-the-villain-of-the-incredibles-2.jpg]