Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - Printable Version
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Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - Mick - 12-31-2017
The Pac-12 was a dismal 1-8 in the bowl season. But Stanford had the narrowest loss of the eight bowl losses. That makes us the second most competitive team in the Pac-12, doesn't it?
WIN:Â Â Â Heart of Dallas Bowl, Utah 30 vs. West Virginia 14
LOSS:Â Las Vegas Bowl, #25 Boise State 38 vs. Oregon [b]28[/b]
LOSS:Â Cactus Bowl, Kansas State 35 vs. UCLA 17
LOSS:Â Foster Farms Bowl, Arizona 35 vs. Purdue 38
LOSS:Â Alamo Bowl, Stanford 37 vs. TCU 39
LOSS:Â Holiday Bowl, Michigan State 42 vs. Washington State17
LOSS:Â Cotton Bowl, Ohio State 24 vs. U$C 7
LOSS:Â Sun Bowl, Arizona State 31 vs. NC State 52
LOSS:Â Fiesta Bowl, Penn State 35 vs. Washington 28
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - PAsportsfan - 12-31-2017
I feel all warm and fuzzy now.
Rainbows, unicorns, participation ribbons...
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - SamAtoms1980 - 12-31-2017
The Pac-12 as a football conference this year was ghastly. The nation will point and laugh. Fans of the American Athletic will clamor to replace the Pac-12 in the "Power 5" echelon.
But we will be back, both as a conference and as a team. The Cardinal will develop during the offseason on both sides of the ball. Next year, #$%&$ are going to get kicked, and names will be taken.
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - winflop - 01-03-2018
This year was a terrible blip. The Pac-12 was at or above .500 in bowl games for the previous five seasons. Doesn't change the East Coast Bias but facts show otherwise.
My problem with the playoff is that the champion of the strongest conference and an undefeated team weren't given a chance to compete for the national championship. This year just SCREAMS for an 8-team playoff
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - TreesAndBirds - 01-03-2018
Pac12 record even a bit worse when you consider we didnt have a team in the playoff so many of our teams played a team a notch lower than they would have otherwise ( except for those who played the Big10, who took advantage of that same situation to wipe up).
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - dabigv13 - 01-03-2018
That's not quite true. We had two teams in Committee selected bowls, Fiesta and Cotton, so our teams did get bumped up relative to normal. Of course, a lot of other Big 5 schools also got bumped up in this way, so hard to estimate the overall effect.
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - Phogge - 01-03-2018
The conference badly needs a super team to get the group out of this rut. Let's see if Chip has the stamina and the recruiting connections to make it work at UCLA in a couple of years. Can't see SC doing it without Darnold unless they get a transfer QB.
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - pcgoode - 01-03-2018
Per recent tweet of Phil Steele, Im not sure this was as much of washout for PAC 12 football many might think:
There were 31 regular season meetings between Power 5 conference. Ironically the Pac 12 which went 1-8 in bowl games had the best regular season record
Pac 12Â 6-2
Big Ten 7-5
ACCÂ 8-9
SECÂ 6-9
Big 12Â 4-6
@Mike_Yam @YogiRoth
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - TreesAndBirds - 01-03-2018
Ironically Cal was 2-0 in regular season vs P5, but didnt make a bowl. So it cant be said that it was our best beating up on the worst of other conferences in the regular season.
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - winflop - 01-03-2018
(01-03-2018, 12:39 PM)TreesAndBirds link Wrote:Ironically ×ÉÉ was 2-0 in regular season vs P5, but didnt make a bowl. So it cant be said that it was our best beating up on the worst of other conferences in the regular season.
UNC went 3-9 with one P5 victory (Pitt)
Ole Miss went 6-6 but that included 3 victories over FCS teams (South Alabama, UT-Martin, and Louisiana)
Ironically, their best OOC opponent was probably Weber State.
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - BostonCard - 01-03-2018
(01-03-2018, 12:51 PM)winflop link Wrote:[quote author=TreesAndBirds link=topic=18468.msg220125#msg220125 date=1515008343]
Ironically ×ÉÉ was 2-0 in regular season vs P5, but didnt make a bowl. So it cant be said that it was our best beating up on the worst of other conferences in the regular season.
UNC went 3-9 with one P5 victory (Pitt)
Ole Miss went 6-6 but that included 3 victories over FCS teams (South Alabama, UT-Martin, and Louisiana)
Ironically, their best OOC opponent was probably Weber State.
[/quote]
Only UT-Martin is an FCS team. South Alabama and Louisiana/Lafayette are in the Sun Belt conference.
BC
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - magnus - 01-03-2018
Not trying to justify the Pac12's horrible bowl record but just wondering what the in conference standing of each match was.
Like for the Alamo Bowl, it was Big12 #2 vs Pac12 #3 or was it #4 (based on Bowl selection).Â
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - BostonCard - 01-03-2018
FWIW, The Pac-12 was an underdog in all but two of the matches.
BC
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - Beeg_Dawg - 01-03-2018
(01-03-2018, 01:42 PM)Boston Card link Wrote:FWIW, The Pac-12 was an underdog in all but two of the matches.
BC
LOL. BC, that's like putting lipstick on a pig.Â
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - CTcard - 01-03-2018
(01-03-2018, 12:31 PM)pcgoode link Wrote:Per recent tweet of Phil Steele, Im not sure this was as much of washout for PAC 12 football many might think:
There were 31 regular season meetings between Power 5 conference. Ironically the Pac 12 which went 1-8 in bowl games had the best regular season record
Pac 12Â 6-2
Big Ten 7-5
ACCÂ 8-9
SECÂ 6-9
Big 12Â 4-6
@Mike_Yam @YogiRoth
I was going to refer to this myself but got distracted and hadn't looked up the exact record.
Both bowl games are regular season head to head matchups are a partial measure, at best, of relative conference strength.
The biggest issue is that both make up such a small sampling; Pac 12 teams played 144 regular season games* and the Power 5 out of conference games contributed only 8, or 5%. The Bowl games contribute 7 more Power 5 matchups.
With such small numbers, not only does randomness come into play, but matchups aren't likely to be evened out, and bowl games have extra issues of motivation and how teams handle a month off between games.
As also noted, the Pac 12 has had good bowl records in recent years, a terrible record this year.
They all tell us something, but that something is limited.
I do think that a characteristic of the Pac 12 this year is that its top teams weren't elite and its bottom teams were relatively good (outside of Oregon State). That makes its average fairly good - but most of the time people aren't really thinking about average when they talk about relative strength of conferences.
*I chose to count each conference game as two, as there were two teams involved and each contribute both a win and a loss to the conference record.
Re: Another way to look at the loss to TCU... - PAsportsfan - 01-03-2018
Another factor for the poor P12 record would be the coaching changes at ASU, OR, UCLA and AZ turmoil.