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WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - Printable Version

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WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - 81alum - 04-06-2018

I just had a chance to go to ESPN replay and watch the national championship high school game in which Central Valley (Lexie and Lacey's team) defeated Hamilton Heights (led by Tennessee-bound Jazmine Massengill.)  The game is still available to anyone who wants to see our future players.

Lexie had 26 points and 10 rebounds, even though she was playing against much taller players from the Hamilton Heights team.  She was 11/11 from the free throw line.  Lacie had 9 points and 8 rebounds. 

Lexie looks like a terrific pure shooter but she also made good cuts, put it on the floor and went to the basket a few times, and had a couple of blocks.  Both she and Lacie look thin to me--they remind me of how thin Britt was when she first got to Stanford and it took her a little time to put on some muscle mass.  I did not focus as much on watching Lacey, though.  One thing that I did notice, and that the announcers commented on, was that both players were "clutch" meaning they played well and with composure even when Hamilton Heights made a run at the end, and seemed to play very well when the game was on the line.  They did not get rattled.

http://www.espn.com/espnw/sports/article/22979858/stanford-recruit-lexie-hull-leads-central-valley-upset-hamilton-heights-christian-geico-high-school-basketball-nationals

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - JohnR34231 - 04-06-2018

"Treasure Hunt" has my vote for the MVP of the tournament All-Name team.

A Central Valley/Mitty (or Pinewood for that matter) game would be fun to see.

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - 2006alum - 04-06-2018

81, totally agree with you across the board, including about their looking thin. I think they look even thinner than Britt did, and even Bonnie. I'd say the closest comparison is actually Kiana Williams, who is much more petite in frame, but equally thin. Fortunately she's so agile and quick it thus far hasn't seemed to affect her ability to get to the basket, and since she's not guarding post players inside the paint, it's less relevant on defense. If the Hulls are 6'1/6'2", they may be expected to guard bigger post players, especially depending on whether we can snag some bigs in the 2019 cycle, so this will definitely be more of a concern for them than for Williams.

I'll add my comments about this game here that I originally posted in a catch-all WBB thread:

(03-31-2018, 03:09 PM)BosCard link Wrote:  I was very impressed by Lexie Hull.  She seemed like a complete player.  I predict she will get a good chunk of playing time as a frosh.  Why?  Because she knows how to play defense which is a prerequisite for playing time.  And then because she can spread the floor and help bust zones with her mid-range jumper and 3-pt shot

Definitely. Twins looked great - especially Lexie, who can score from anywhere, is solid on defense, great on the glass, and has great court sense for making passes to her teammates. Didn't get to see as much from Lacie given her foul trouble early on, but Lacie was clutch late both from the line and with a swish trey. That said, they will definitely need to put on muscle when they get to the Farm; they look like a strong gust of wind could knock them over!

(04-06-2018, 07:31 AM)JPRI link Wrote:  "Treasure Hunt" has my vote for the MVP of the tournament All-Name team.

LOL. I thought so too. Apparently she's likely to be a top 10 prospect, so it'll be interesting to see which schools are in the hunt for Treasure.

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - Spike - 04-06-2018

They’re no thinner than Kate Starbird and tough as nails.
Lacie made a great block under the basket and took a wicked blow, jumped up, and celebrated.  Winners.

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - martyup - 04-06-2018

TN is getting a gem in Massengill.  She was impressive and tenacious.

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - BobK - 04-06-2018

The way too early rankings which Stanford # 6 nationally


https://mobile.twitter.com/stanfordwbb/status/982300101895864320



Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - CompSci87 - 04-06-2018

I'd call the twins slim but wiry. Probably stronger than Bonnie as a freshman.

Agree about Massengill.

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - 81alum - 04-06-2018

So much depends on where Tara plays them and that could depend upon other players.  With the only certainties being that Williams and Smith will be playing, how the other pieces of the puzzle fit together is going to be fascinating.  Let's review:

Among returning players who took 50 shots, these are the top shooting percentages:

Maya Dodson .495
Alanna Smith .474
Nadia Fingal .446
Kiana Williams .414
Dijonai Carrington .401
Alyssa Jerome .400
Marta Sniezek .359

I am thinking of a lineup like this:
5 Maya Dodson / Nadia Fingall
4 Alanna Smith / Alyssa Jerome
3 Lexie Hull/ Alyssa Jerome
2 Dijonai Carrington/Kiana Williams
1 Kiana Williams/Jenna Brown

Our season next year will then largely depend on how improved Maya Dodson can be, and how quickly the freshmen can adapt to college.

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - BosCard - 04-06-2018

I'm not sure the comparisons of the Hulls (and Lexie in particular) to Bonnie Samuelson are that warranted.  Bonnie was an amazing shooter and I don't think that level of 3 point proficiency should be expected.  However, Lexie drives/seeks contact and finishes at the rim far more than Bonnie S did.  She seems much more like McPhee in that regard.

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - bl82 - 04-06-2018

Hard to believe Lexie Hull is more ready to go out of the gate than Jenna Brown.  I would go with a mid-season rotation of something like:

5 Maya Dodson / Nadia Fingall / Shannon Coffee
4 Alanna Smith / Nadia Fingall
3 Dijonai Carrington / Alyssa Jerome OR Lexie Hull / Estella Moschkau  (could we RS Lacie Hull?)
1B Jenna Brown / Marta Sniezek / Anna Wilson
1A Kiana Williams / Marta Sniezek

I assume that at least initially, Tara is going to be partial to Marta running the team and not be keen on Jenna and Kiana on the floor together, but as the year wears on, it is possible that Marta's lack of relative upside means more PT for Jenna Brown and perhaps, fingers crossed, a healthy Anna Wilson

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - 2006alum - 04-06-2018

Quick thoughts from my phone - agree that Marta stays the one, Kiana two, Carrington replaces McPhee at three, and then Smith plus one of Dodson and Fingall at 4 and 5. Smith is strong at low post and Fingall has a nice jump shot from the elbow, so I think Tara will want to take advantage of that flexibility, especially when the Princeton runs up against the Zone. Just need Fingall to solidify her screens.

Agree that the Hulls do not play like Bonnie but they seem tall, lanky and thin like her. McPhee is shorter, stronger, and more compact. They play like her, but their size is more like Bonnie.

Also shooting percentage is a bit sketchy to rely on given that many players listed got most of their shots against easier early season teams. I am certain Dodson would have a lower percentage than Smith if she had played the minutes Smith did against UConn, UCLA, ASU, etc.

It will be interesting to see what Tara does with Marta if Brown is ready to run the floor by mid season. Running the Princeton, which requires learning more tricks, may obviate that question.

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - 81alum - 04-06-2018

I think Dodson has the most upside of any of our bigs, and I know Tara has been putting a lot of time into helping her develop this year.  Her playtime will depend upon how much she improves over the off-season.  But she and Fingall will be competing for the time vacated by Kaylee Johnson.  Coffee as well, but I think Coffee has been here long enough for us to know what her ceiling is.  Fingall's outside shot has been very impressive this year, but Dodson should become our best rebounder and ought to be perfect for the 5.  I know she is highly motivated and the coaches really want to see that out of her, and I have good feelings that she will have a breakout year.  Keeping those fouls under control will be important.

The point guard situation is very intriguing.  Remember that there were long stretches at the end of the season where Tara took Marta off the floor and let Kiana run the offense even when Marta was not in foul trouble.  At various chalk talks we got the message that the coaches are acutely aware of the need for Marta to score, and I remember once, following a game in which she had finally shown some offense, they were asked "what got into Marta, where has that offense been all along?"  The answer was something like "Marta's smart.  She understands her situation."  I understood that to mean that she was told that she had to score or see her minutes shrink.

Fast forward to Louisville.  Before the game at his presser Waltz notes that Stanford has a couple of players that they can "sag off of."  Sniezek does start and gets 15 minutes in the first half.  She doesn't take a single shot.  She gets only 5 minutes in the second half, and Williams runs the offense for most of the time Tara is attempting to get us back into the game.  When the season was on the line, Tara put the offense into Williams' hands.  I think that is a signal for next season, and the fact that Jenna Brown is coming in makes the situation even more complicated.

But pressure on the 1 spot is also worsened by the glut of talent we have at wing.  Tara has said numerous times how much she wants to get more time for Alyssa Jerome and I think she will.  But Lexie occupies a very similar role to Jerome and I think she will develop into a player who can give minutes by mid season.  But where do you put Jerome and Hull if Carrington is getting most of the minutes at wing?  Why not start Carrington at the two instead, and move Williams down to the 1? 

Marta's experience and senior leadership will be prized by Tara, I know, and she could be the titular starter at the beginning of the season.  But there is pressure coming from both directions, and that is not even counting what will happen if Anna Wilson stays healthy and becomes consistent.

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - 2006alum - 04-06-2018

81, all good points. And I agree that Dodson is being primed to be our five long-term. My only thought re: Fingall is that Smith can also play the five pretty well, and we can really break down a zone if we have two bigs, either of whom can get inside to the Elbow and either shoot or pass inside to the low post. Kayl had some nice feeds from the elbow to Smith at the low post from time to time, and she was killer on screens, but because she didn't like to shoot from there the 2 inside zone defenders could sag off of her and prevent the pass to low post. With Fingall able to take (and make) that shot, and because Smith can do the same, it keeps our offense much more fluid. I don't remember seeing Dodson try to do much outside the paint, so I'm not sure what her jump shot is like, but as this is Smith's final season, getting Fingall some experience at the four would also pay dividends for the following year where our two bigs will basically have to be Fingall and Dodson, because we have none coming in next season and even if we got someone like Amihere, they'd be starting only in Fingall's senior year. And because Dodson is a much more natural five, we will either need to play stretch four with Jerome or a Hull or, when we need to match up against teams like Texas, Baylor, and Notre Dame, all of whom will have multiple dominant bigs, need Fingall at the four. Moreover, since we'll most likely need to have two of Dodson, Fingall, and Smith on the floor most of the time, Fingall at four and Smith at five makes more sense to me than the other way around. Smith is much better at boxing out and making back to basket plays, and Fingall is actually a pretty good sharpshooter for a big.

I missed the Louisville game entirely because I was traveling that weekend and will confess I had no desire to go back and watch it by the time I got home, so I didn't notice how little time Sniezek got. That's interesting and ill foreboding with so much pressure at the 1-3 positions coming in, so you're right, it's possible a Williams-Carrington-Wing-Smith-Dodson lineup could be in the offing. I guess I'd just prefer to see Carrington more in McPhee's old role than at the two, because Carrington is a wild passer, and that's where she generates most of her turnovers. She actually has great ball handling skills, but I think she thinks everyone else on the team has superman reflexes and movement!

And yeah, I don't know what we do about the glut of players we have who can fill the 1-3 (or stretch four). The Princeton is designed to handle having only one big on the floor and it's especially effective when you're the smaller team, so it's possible Tara was thinking ahead and will be fine running stretch four Princeton offense with far better outside shooting than we had this season. I loved your stat pack update and the fact that we had both the most made threes ever and also the lowest shooting percentage ever tells us everything we need to know about what we had to rely on and how reliably that worked... The fact that McPhee is the first guard to average 15+ points in a season since Wiggins suggests we have not been a strong three point shooting team in quite a long time. And when I think back on it, the Samuelsons have been our only sharpshooters, and teams knew to key in on them and limit their opportunities. It's been ages since we've had multiple legit outside shooting guards on the floor at once, and if we can get that with some combination of Williams/Wilson/Brown/Hulls/Jump, then all the better. We just really, really need a top big in our next class...!

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - 81alum - 04-06-2018

Given that we do not have 2 top "bigs" at this stage, and if she decides to keep the Princeton, then why not this:

5 Smith
"stretch" 4 Jerome/Hull
3 Carrington
2 Williams
1 Sniezek

With Brown, Wilson, Dodson, and Fingall waiting in the wings.

That lineup of 5 would be highly mobile as needed by the Princeton, and all five could shoot the 3 reasonably well.  Offensively I think it would work.  The problem might come on defense if the other team had twin towers, as you note.  I don't recall how good a screener Smith is.  Any recollections? 

The way it would work with Dodson at the 5 (not using the stretch 4 combo but with Smith at the 4) is that Dodson would start at the elbow as per the Princeton, but she has shown the ability to get from there to the rim with one bounce.  She has finished that move a number of times this last year.  She also has sometimes rushed it and thrown up wild shots.  If she starts finishing that move consistently it would create a new dimension to our offense and she would be far more dangerous than Kaylee was able to be.  She also needs to perfect a shot from that range, since it is essentially a free throw and she is in need of improvement on that front.  But I think both of those items are well within the range of possibility for the off season.  She is, by all accounts highly motivated.  I think she knows that if she develops properly she could have a professional career.  Coaches rave about her work ethic.  I bet she comes back from the summer a much improved player.

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - BobK - 04-06-2018

Defense defense defense
Or two platoon basketball? 
Really great posts but don’t forget defense

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - 81alum - 04-07-2018

(04-06-2018, 08:27 PM)BobK link Wrote:  Defense defense defense
Or two platoon basketball? 
Really great posts but don’t forget defense
Yes indeed.  But who are our best remaining defenders?  Johnson and McPhee were both highly effective defenders. 

Obviously, with Johnson, we lose one of the best defenders and the best rebounder on the team.  Is Fingall or Dodson or Coffee most likely to be able to step into those shoes?  Dodson was quite foul-prone in her freshman year.  But I was surprised to see how many fouls Fingall picked up (see below.)

With McPhee's departure, we lose a good defender but let's not forget that she was an excellent rebounder too.  Carrington is an obvious fit for that.  But is anyone else?  How is the defense and rebounding of Jerome?  I have not developed a clear impression as yet. 

These comparisons are of limited use, since the players were tasked with doing different things, but they do help to form an impression:
Carrington:
Jerome:  337 minutes, 36 rebounds, 3 blocks, 27 fouls.
Fingall: 398 minutes, 107 rebounds, 13 blocks, 52 fouls.
Dodson: 372 minutes, 67 rebounds, 27 blocks, 38 fouls.

Someone else we have not been talking about is Moschkau.  That is a player with a lot of offensive potential and with a body type that looks a lot like the incoming twins. 

So that gives us Jerome, Lexie, Lacie, Carrington, and Moschkau who all could play the 3 (Smith too), but obviously they all won't.  We know about Carrington's defense--but I really don't think we have seen enough to know whether Jerome, Lexi, Lacie, or Moschkau is ready for defense against the likes of Satou Sabally, Erin Boley, Katie McWilliams, Chantel Horvat, etc.

 



Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - mbdude - 04-07-2018

Smith was  good defensively - tara mentioned her several times in regard to her defense

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - BobK - 04-07-2018

Smith got better and better but not as a defensive 5

Re: WBB: Lexie and Lacey's National Championship - 81alum - 04-07-2018

(04-07-2018, 09:26 AM)BobK link Wrote:  Smith got better and better but not as a defensive 5
Were there any tendencies as to when she picked up so many fouls? 

Fingall had the reputation of being a defensive specialist in high school.  I wonder if she can get that going again in college.  Maybe on the offensive end and the defensive end our two bigs will reverse roles?