SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry

SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - Printable Version

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SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - Snorlax94 - 04-08-2018

A piece today on the o line. Feels like the Chronicles Tom Fitzgerald is the only journalist covering the Cardinals Spring practices.

https://m.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/No-drastic-changes-to-Stanford-O-line-under-new-12815006.php

Not too much new. I think the bighest surprise for me was that AT Hall is listed as the second tackle, with the team trying to find a way to use Foster Sarell. Wouldnt have expected it, but happy for Hall for stepping up his game.

I was a little concerned, though not terribly surprised, to hear the o line got the upper hand vs the d line during todays scrimmages. I would have preferred if it were closer to a draw, but no. Anticipating a lot of points this fall.

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - OutsiderFan - 04-08-2018

Agree on Sarell and Hall. It may be that they have a starting five, and Sarell is the first replacement at Guard OR OT.Â But man, what absurd depth on this OL across the board.

I disagree re: OL getting better of DL. Stanford could have arguably the best OL in the country in 2018. If the OL isn't working over Stanford's young DL, that OL strength would have to be called into question.

I'll take it a step further and say in the Spring Game, I would be alarmed if the defense doesn't get dominated. Even with backup walk-on Richardson at QB and no Bryce Love, behind this OL, the offense should absolutely roll.

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - Snorlax94 - 04-08-2018

Hey OutsideFan,
I dont necessarily disagree there are different ways to interpret the o line soundly beating the d line. It could be that the offensive line is that good. It could be that the d line is still evolving, or both.

I certainly agree that by fall I expect the o line to be incredibly dominant, I hope over every opponent.

My recollection is that in spring ball, d lines usually did better. I thought like every year the defense wins the points in the scrimmage.

Next Saturday will provide an opportunity for an eyeball test, fwiw.

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - Langdude - 04-08-2018

(04-08-2018, 02:07 AM)Snorlax94 link Wrote: A piece today on the o line. Feels like the Chronicles Tom Fitzgerald is the only journalist covering the Cardinals Spring practices.

https://m.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/No-drastic-changes-to-Stanford-O-line-under-new-12815006.php

Not too much new. I think the bighest surprise for me was that AT Hall is listed as the second tackle, with the team trying to find a way to use Foster Sarell. Wouldnt have expected it, but happy for Hall for stepping up his game.

I was a little concerned, though not terribly surprised, to hear the o line got the upper hand vs the d line during todays scrimmages. I would have preferred if it were closer to a draw, but no. Anticipating a lot of points this fall.

I don't think A.T. Hall is "stepping up." He was playing very well the second half of last season - better than Hamilton and Sarell. Whether that continues to be the case, given the upside of Sarell and the purported upside of Hamilton, remains to be seen.

In the end, we'll play the best two out of Fanaika, Sarell, Hall, Hamilton, and Wilson (the other three are set). What a problem to have!

-m.

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - barrister7 - 04-08-2018

What I saw yesterday was primarily Little, Fanika, Chaffin, Herbig and Sarell running as the first team unit.Â There were so many weapons missing from the offense, it was hard to really assess what we will have.Â However, after the scrimmage, we were talking to Tavita Pritchard who intimated that, with these weapons and the Oline, if everything "jelled", we may have something special this fall on offense.

Defense used a lot of people shifting bodies and, again, it is hard to determine what the defense can do going against this oline.Â I think the daily honing is going to produce results for the defense when it is time to go against someone other their own.

There was exuberance and excitement from the players, albeit, the walking wounded in shorts were substantial.Â Costello and Mills following the action from behind the scrimmage while Bryce Love was conspicuous in a bright yellow vest meaning "hands off".

Saw "Horrible Harry" looking dapper and brobdingnagian walking the sidelines with the draft coming up in a few weeks.

Heard a great story from a former Stanford coach regarding Jack West, the four star quarterback from Alabama coming to Stanford this summer.Â It seems that the vaunted head coach from Alabama was sitting in the West household attempting to recruit Jack West.Â Saban puffed up his chest and asked who he thought was the best head coach in the country and young West responded, "David Shaw".Â

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - Snorlax94 - 04-08-2018

(04-08-2018, 05:52 PM)barrister7 link Wrote: Heard a great story from a former Stanford coach regarding Jack West, the four star quarterback from Alabama coming to Stanford this summer.Â It seems that the vaunted head coach from Alabama was sitting in the West household attempting to recruit Jack West.Â Saban puffed up his chest and asked who he thought was the best head coach in the country and young West responded, "David Shaw".

You keep going around fishing for compliments and eventually youre gonna get disappointed by someone willing to tell you his honest truth.

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - gocard14 - 04-08-2018

Usually D is ahead of O at this point because D relies more on athleticism and O relies more on coordination, timing, and repetition, especially at the O line level. Having an experienced line mitigates some of that. Add in having an enormously talented O line and a suspect D line and its not surprising to hear whose winning in practice. Its just hard to know if this is an elite O line beating an average to good D line or a good O line beating a bad D line. Well find out in the fall.

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - fullmetal - 04-08-2018

For the above reasons, I would also agree that the defense ought to be winning spring ball.Â That they're not is usually a good sign...unless the defense is depleted.

During spring ball, every team could be "something special" come fall.Â We shall see.

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - OutsiderFan - 04-09-2018

(04-08-2018, 07:23 PM)fullmetal link Wrote: For the above reasons, I would also agree that the defense ought to be winning spring ball.Â That they're not is usually a good sign...unless the defense is depleted.

During spring ball, every team could be "something special" come fall.Â We shall see.

What?Â I get y'all not wanting to jump the shark on how good the OL can be, based on not exactly going against the Steel Curtain in Spring, but...

Walker Little was the #1 OT recruit in the country in 2017.Â Sarell was #2. Nate Herbig and Walker Little were both Frosh All Americans.Â Little didn't allow a single sack his True Frosh season.Â Fanaika has played a TON of football for Stanford.Â Chaffin has played more than everyone on the DL but Dylan Jackson.

There is simply no way the DL has as much talent and experience as the OL. It would be really concerning to hear the DL was the better unit even in Spring.Â What is more important now is to see how much the DL improves, going against such an elite OL in practice situations, from Spring through Summer training camp.Â Few DLs Stanford's OL plays this year are going to have had the opportunity to be challenged by an OL as good as Stanford's.

And while you could argue Stanford's OL won't be pushed to its limits by a great DL in practice, given the talent, experience, and size it has, there is a meaningful delta between how far the Stanford DL can push it, and how strong a DL it can handle.

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - winflop - 04-09-2018

Hung out recently with a friend of a friend who is inside the program. They are positively giddy about this year's OL. They think it's the best of the Shawbaugh era, both in talent and depth. To paraphrase, "When a guy as talented as Foster Sarell can't find a starting job, you know you're scary good. He probably starts on every other team in the country, including Alabama."

We have just under five months to get ready for a season of serious road paving and KJ have time to read the defense. That has to strike fear into every DC we face.

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - BostonCard - 04-09-2018

(04-09-2018, 06:45 AM)winflop link Wrote: Hung out recently with a friend of a friend who is inside the program. They are positively giddy about this year's OL. They think it's the best of the Shawbaugh era, both in talent and depth. To paraphrase, "When a guy as talented as Foster Sarell can't find a starting job, you know you're scary good. He probably starts on every other team in the country, including Alabama."

We have just under five months to get ready for a season of serious road paving and KJ have time to read the defense. That has to strike fear into every DC we face.

When a guy as talented as Kyle Murphy cant find a starting job, you know you are scary good.

BC

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - winflop - 04-09-2018

Kyle Murphy Stanford bio
Nations third-best offensive tackle and 19th-best overall recruit by Rivals
Nations fourth-best offensive tackle by Scout and ESPN

Foster Sarell Stanford bio
Nations second-best recruit by Scout, third by PrepStar, eighth by 247Sports, 14th by Rivals and ESPN
Nations top-ranked offensive tackle by Scout, second by PrepStar, third by Rivals, fourth by 247Sports and ESPN

Pretty good company there, slight edge to Sarell

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - BostonCard - 04-09-2018

Yeah, but we know Murphy panned out; he wound up starting at RT and then LT, and got drafted and now plays for the Packers.Â While I have every expectation that Sarell will as well (and he could even exceed Murphys accomplishments), there is still a possibility that he will be a bust or a significant disappointment.Â Id say there is about a 15% chance that Sarell exceeds Murphys career (all American, high draft pick), probably a 60% chance that his career is broadly similar (multi-year starter, all-PAC-12, bottom half of the draft), and a 25%chance that his career will wind up below that of Murphys (no all conference honors; doesnt get drafted), with a small but non-zero chance that he is a victim of injuries or is a complete bust and never starts.Â Unlikely, but we once had the number 1 linebacker in the country, and he never could crack the starting line-up.

BC

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - CTcard - 04-10-2018

(04-09-2018, 07:36 AM)Boston Card link Wrote: [quote author=winflop link=topic=18981.msg227549#msg227549 date=1523281553]
Hung out recently with a friend of a friend who is inside the program. They are positively giddy about this year's OL. They think it's the best of the Shawbaugh era, both in talent and depth. To paraphrase, "When a guy as talented as Foster Sarell can't find a starting job, you know you're scary good. He probably starts on every other team in the country, including Alabama."

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - Hulk01 - 04-10-2018

It's widely known that five star recruits often don't star.Â But our number one linebacker in the country, Michael Craven, started four games as a red shirt freshman and five games the next year, in which he was named the Pacific-10 Conference Defensive Player of the Week for his performance against UCLA

Perhaps the problem: Talented as he was, Mike seemed more interested in hitting the parties with Kris Bonifas.

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - barrister7 - 04-10-2018

I went back and read the article which started this thread based on some of the posts re no drastic changes.Â The article mentions that Sarell played guard in the first half of spring practice and then tackle in the second.Â As I posted, Sarell played with the Ones for the entire practice at tackle with Devery Hamilton coming in with the Orgre.Â Bright played with the second unit.Â From my perspective,Â the best starting unit was on the field with Hamilton and Bright coming in on the heavy package and adding depth.

However, imo, Fanaika is still the wild card at guard.Â Since Herbig is an all american at right guard, if Carberry thought it would be a stronger unit with Sarell at left guard and Bright at right tackle, so be it.Â I do not think it is hyperbole to consider this one of the best olines in the country.Â As I said before, the offensive coordinator almost got glassy eyed in visualizing what he might have on the field this fall.

Another story I heard from one of the former coaches last Saturday had to do with former Stanford safety, John Lynch, now GM of the 49ers.Â As some ofÂ you may know, he came to the Farm as a quarterback.Â Willie Shaw thought that John had a "defensive mentality" as a qb.Â Lynch's father, "Big John" was determined that his son would remain at qb.Â The story goes that John, Tyler Batson and Big John were accosted by some guys outside a restaurant ending up in a scuffle.Â Big John ended up with two of their opponents under his arms, yelling at his son to "hit them, John, but don't use your right hand" still thinking that his Hall of Fame son as a safety, was going to be a quarterback at Stanford.

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - Spiny_Norman - 04-10-2018

(04-10-2018, 10:41 AM)barrister7 link Wrote: I went back and read the article which started this thread based on some of the posts re no drastic changes.Â The article mentions that Sarell played guard in the first half of spring practice and then tackle in the second.Â As I posted, Sarell played with the Ones for the entire practice at tackle with Devery Hamilton coming in with the Orgre.Â Bright played with the second unit.Â From my perspective,Â the best starting unit was on the field with Hamilton and Bright coming in on the heavy package and adding depth.

Bright?Â He completed his eligibility last season. Did you mean Hall?

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - BostonCard - 04-10-2018

(04-10-2018, 12:37 AM)CTcard link Wrote: [quote author=Boston Card link=topic=18981.msg227551#msg227551 date=1523284575]
[quote author=winflop link=topic=18981.msg227549#msg227549 date=1523281553]
Hung out recently with a friend of a friend who is inside the program. They are positively giddy about this year's OL. They think it's the best of the Shawbaugh era, both in talent and depth. To paraphrase, "When a guy as talented as Foster Sarell can't find a starting job, you know you're scary good. He probably starts on every other team in the country, including Alabama."

When a guy as talented as Kyle Murphy cant find a starting job, you know you are scary good.

BC
[/quote]

BC - I had thought your original point was to never take happy talk out of spring training too seriously (good words to live by). Perhaps you were really just pointing out these guys looking like they are having parallel starts to their careers.

There is a striking parallel right now between Sarell and Murphy. Both superstar recruits. Both played year one but the other high profile OT in their class played more and started sooner. Murphy couldn't get a starting job year two - and now we're discussing that might happen to Sarell.

As for the happy talk, was it a sign of being scary good that Murphy couldn't beat out Fleming for a tackle spot sophomore year?
Probably yes.
Fleming was good. The fact that the soph Murphy couldn't beat out the senior Fleming was a sign of talent around.
And the 2013 offense was pretty good, generally under-rated in our memories (27th in FEI, 29th in S&P).
Much of that was led by the OL plowing the way for Gaffney and giving Hogan time to throw the long ball.

So happy talk ignored, it still ought to be a good OL this year and it could be a sign of great depth of talent if Sarell can't get a starting job.
[/quote]

There wasn't that much of a deeper meaning aside from the fact that Sarell's situation is not unprecedented. And yeah, as I thought of it, the parallels between Little and Sarell, and Peat and Murphy coming in as two top tackles is rather striking.Â Both pairs played extensively as freshmen, though I don't think Peat started (unlike Little).Â In both pairs, one of the two was slotted as a starter their sophomore year (Peat in 2013, Litlle is projected to in 2018).Â In both pairs, despite the recruiting hoopla, one of the two may not be a starter their sophomore year (Murphy wasn't/Sarrell is TBD).

One point of caution, though is that although the 2013 offense was good, and the OL very good, in 2014, with Peat and Murphy (plus Garnett) all in the starting line-up, we notoriously had problems.Â Peat was an all-American and won the Morris Trophy, but our offense ranked 50th in FEI, 54th in S&P, and until the last three games was even worse.

BC

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - barrister7 - 04-10-2018

Hall, Hall, Hall, dammit!!!!!!!!

Re: SF Chronicle: No drastic changes to Stanford O-line under new coach Carberry - OutsiderFan - 04-11-2018

If it is true Hall was playing Ogre and Sarell was starting at RT, we can likely conclude some things.

- As good as Hall was in 2017, and as much as he may be better in 2018, Sarell is in fact better than Hall, and Hamilton.
- Stanford has AT LEAST three really capable guys to play RT
- Hamilton is probably the backup LT

The starting OL could average:Â 6-5 320.Â