Outside Topic The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football

Outside Topic The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Outside Topic The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football (/thread-16255.html)

Pages: 1 2 3

The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - JJJ - 08-10-2018

So glad we have Shaw and Turley.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24342005/maryland-terrapins-football-culture-toxic-coach-dj-durkin

Edit: wait, he was at Stanford under Harbaugh. Maybe not so "OT" after all...

"Durkin came to Maryland from Michigan, where he was the defensive coordinator and linebackers coach. He worked under Jim Harbaugh at Michigan and Stanford, and for Ohio State coach Urban Meyer at Bowling Green and Florida."

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - TinderForMidgets - 08-11-2018

(08-10-2018, 08:43 PM)JJJ Wrote: So glad we have Shaw and Turley.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24342005/maryland-terrapins-football-culture-toxic-coach-dj-durkin

Edit: wait, he was at Stanford under Harbaugh. Maybe not so "OT" after all...

"Durkin came to Maryland from Michigan, where he was the defensive coordinator and linebackers coach. He worked under Jim Harbaugh at Michigan and Stanford, and for Ohio State coach Urban Meyer at Bowling Green and Florida."

Pretty sure Harbaugh would have limited his impact. Fortunately we have a very classy coach and Turley seems like a good guy.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - burger - 08-11-2018

The most damning thing in that article: supposedly almost an hour passed after the first signs of distress by the player who died and the staff's calling for an ambulance. Has the multi-million dollar wrongful death suit been filed yet? Hope maryland has good insurance.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - CardinalSagehen - 08-11-2018

(08-11-2018, 01:18 AM)TanaciousD Wrote:
(08-10-2018, 08:43 PM)JJJ Wrote: So glad we have Shaw and Turley.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24342005/maryland-terrapins-football-culture-toxic-coach-dj-durkin

Edit: wait, he was at Stanford under Harbaugh. Maybe not so "OT" after all...

"Durkin came to Maryland from Michigan, where he was the defensive coordinator and linebackers coach. He worked under Jim Harbaugh at Michigan and Stanford, and for Ohio State coach Urban Meyer at Bowling Green and Florida."

Pretty sure Harbaugh would have limited his impact. Fortunately we have a very classy coach and Turley seems like a good guy.

I agree, we are lucky to have Turley and Shaw, but based on what I’ve heard, we were teetering on the edge in the days of Harbaugh.

In an inherently physical sport like football, there’s a fine line between “tough” and “barbaric”. Harbaugh openly and notoriously wanted to bring toughness to Stanford in 2007. That first camp was, according to a former standout player that told me personally a couple years ago, the most gruesome camp he ever experienced at any level (including the NFL). Harbaugh had sat in the players’ living rooms and “told our moms that he’d take care of us.” Then his camp was so brutal that a number of players demanded a sort of “intervention” (the player’s word, not mine) with a school counselor.

This player didn’t seem to begrudge Harbaugh in the end, but he acknowledged that certain others did (very successful NFL players that everyone knows). There was also a feeling that he only cared about winning, not people.

It sounded like the brutal camps eventually improved a bit. Maybe it’s true that Harbaugh knew where the line was and how not to cross it the way his protege Durkin and his staff may have done.

Again, I’m just thankful we have Shaw now...

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - lex24 - 08-12-2018

I think had Harbaugh not left he would have been run off in a year or two. From what I heard it just wasn’t Sherman and Baldwin that hated him. It was a good portion of the team.

Same at SF. There was an article on Shanahan and how he’s earned players respect. A player(forget who) commented along the lines of - he works us hard but allows for some fun. Harbaugh OTH was a constant grind.

I give him 2 more years at Michigan.

(08-11-2018, 11:36 PM)CardinalSagehen Wrote:
(08-11-2018, 01:18 AM)TanaciousD Wrote:
(08-10-2018, 08:43 PM)JJJ Wrote: So glad we have Shaw and Turley.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24342005/maryland-terrapins-football-culture-toxic-coach-dj-durkin

Edit: wait, he was at Stanford under Harbaugh. Maybe not so "OT" after all...

"Durkin came to Maryland from Michigan, where he was the defensive coordinator and linebackers coach. He worked under Jim Harbaugh at Michigan and Stanford, and for Ohio State coach Urban Meyer at Bowling Green and Florida."

Pretty sure Harbaugh would have limited his impact. Fortunately we have a very classy coach and Turley seems like a good guy.

I agree, we are lucky to have Turley and Shaw, but based on what I’ve heard, we were teetering on the edge in the days of Harbaugh.

In an inherently physical sport like football, there’s a fine line between “tough” and “barbaric”. Harbaugh openly and notoriously wanted to bring toughness to Stanford in 2007. That first camp was, according to a former standout player that told me personally a couple years ago, the most gruesome camp he ever experienced at any level (including the NFL). Harbaugh had sat in the players’ living rooms and “told our moms that he’d take care of us.” Then his camp was so brutal that a number of players demanded a sort of “intervention” (the player’s word, not mine) with a school counselor.

This player didn’t seem to begrudge Harbaugh in the end, but he acknowledged that certain others did (very successful NFL players that everyone knows). There was also a feeling that he only cared about winning, not people.

It sounded like the brutal camps eventually improved a bit. Maybe it’s true that Harbaugh knew where the line was and how not to cross it the way his protege Durkin and his staff may have done.

Again, I’m just thankful we have Shaw now...

Key quote from the article: “A former Maryland staff member said: "I would never, ever, ever allow my child to be coached there."

Durkin is toast. Sounds like he deserves to be.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - Mick - 08-12-2018

(08-12-2018, 09:27 AM)lex24 Wrote: I think had Harbaugh not left he would have been run off in a year or two. From what I heard it just wasn’t Sherman and Baldwin that hated him. It was a good portion of the team.

Same at SF. There was an article on Shanahan and how he’s earned players respect. A player(forget who) commented along the lines of - he works us hard but allows for some fun. Harbaugh OTH was a constant grind.

I give him 2 more years at Michigan.

I heard Brent Jones talking on KNBR about a year before Harbaugh left. He didn't exactly slam Harbaugh, but he essentially said a guy like Harbaugh works for a year after the team is really bad. He gets better players, has a better playbook, knows what he's doing, but really turns the attitude around. After that, he's not really that necessary. The EUTM and "Who's Got It Better Than Us?" really wears thin, particularly in the pros. Lots of rumors he was wearing thin on the Niners.

The KNBR host asked Jones "Would you play for him?" Jones said "Maybe." The host said "would you like to play for him?" Jones said "Sometimes."

I think Harbaugh's at Michigan to stay for the following reasons, based on the 100 or so nut job fans I know who follow Michigan:

1) Harbaugh didn't like the NFL, particularly how the owners control the team.
2) Harbaugh is in complete control at Michigan.
3) He's having fun because he's connected to the campus and the community. John U. Bacon, sportswriter at the times, who has known Harbaugh since third grade, says Harbaugh is really enjoying his alma mater.
4) His wife really, really likes it here and wants stability above all else.
5) At the end of the day, Harbaugh doesn't like the "give" involved in working with NFL players. He likes complete, autocratic control, like he has in Ann Arbor.
6) There's no more greener grass. Lots of coaches had short stays until they found the perfect spot. This, I think, is Harbaugh's perfect spot. The alums, board and AD won't fire him.

Harbaugh's won 72% of the games at Michigan, Bo won about 81%. Harbaugh's 1-2 in Michigan bowl games, Bo was 5-12. They're not all that different. I think the average fan is very, very happy with Harbaugh.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - 82lsju - 08-12-2018

but Bo was

11-9-1 vs OSU
17-4 vs MSU

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - CompSci87 - 08-12-2018

(08-12-2018, 04:52 PM)Mick Wrote:
(08-12-2018, 09:27 AM)lex24 Wrote: I think had Harbaugh not left he would have been run off in a year or two. From what I heard it just wasn’t Sherman and Baldwin that hated him. It was a good portion of the team.

Same at SF. There was an article on Shanahan and how he’s earned players respect. A player(forget who) commented along the lines of - he works us hard but allows for some fun. Harbaugh OTH was a constant grind.

I give him 2 more years at Michigan.

I heard Brent Jones talking on KNBR about a year before Harbaugh left. He didn't exactly slam Harbaugh, but he essentially said a guy like Harbaugh works for a year after the team is really bad. He gets better players, has a better playbook, knows what he's doing, but really turns the attitude around. After that, he's not really that necessary. The EUTM and "Who's Got It Better Than Us?" really wears thin, particularly in the pros. Lots of rumors he was wearing thin on the Niners.

The KNBR host asked Jones "Would you play for him?" Jones said "Maybe." The host said "would you like to play for him?" Jones said "Sometimes."

I think Harbaugh's at Michigan to stay for the following reasons, based on the 100 or so nut job fans I know who follow Michigan:

1) Harbaugh didn't like the NFL, particularly how the owners control the team.
2) Harbaugh is in complete control at Michigan.
3) He's having fun because he's connected to the campus and the community. John U. Bacon, sportswriter at the times, who has known Harbaugh since third grade, says Harbaugh is really enjoying his alma mater.
4) His wife really, really likes it here and wants stability above all else.
5) At the end of the day, Harbaugh doesn't like the "give" involved in working with NFL players. He likes complete, autocratic control, like he has in Ann Arbor.
6) There's no more greener grass. Lots of coaches had short stays until they found the perfect spot. This, I think, is Harbaugh's perfect spot. The alums, board and AD won't fire him.

Harbaugh's won 72% of the games at Michigan, Bo won about 81%. Harbaugh's 1-2 in Michigan bowl games, Bo was 5-12. They're not all that different. I think the average fan is very, very happy with Harbaugh.

Some other considerations:

* Players are only there 4 or 5 years, so not as much time to get really fed up with Harbaugh's schtick.

* OTOH, assistants, staff, admin, and faculty are there for longer, some much longer. So there's some danger of them getting fed up.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - Phogge - 08-13-2018

For an interesting war of words TOS Thunderdome is commenting on this topic.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - barrister7 - 08-13-2018

(08-12-2018, 05:47 PM)CompSci87 Wrote:
(08-12-2018, 04:52 PM)Mick Wrote:
(08-12-2018, 09:27 AM)lex24 Wrote: I think had Harbaugh not left he would have been run off in a year or two. From what I heard it just wasn’t Sherman and Baldwin that hated him. It was a good portion of the team.

Same at SF. There was an article on Shanahan and how he’s earned players respect. A player(forget who) commented along the lines of - he works us hard but allows for some fun. Harbaugh OTH was a constant grind.

I give him 2 more years at Michigan.

I heard Brent Jones talking on KNBR about a year before Harbaugh left. He didn't exactly slam Harbaugh, but he essentially said a guy like Harbaugh works for a year after the team is really bad. He gets better players, has a better playbook, knows what he's doing, but really turns the attitude around. After that, he's not really that necessary. The EUTM and "Who's Got It Better Than Us?" really wears thin, particularly in the pros. Lots of rumors he was wearing thin on the Niners.

The KNBR host asked Jones "Would you play for him?" Jones said "Maybe." The host said "would you like to play for him?" Jones said "Sometimes."

I think Harbaugh's at Michigan to stay for the following reasons, based on the 100 or so nut job fans I know who follow Michigan:

1) Harbaugh didn't like the NFL, particularly how the owners control the team.
2) Harbaugh is in complete control at Michigan.
3) He's having fun because he's connected to the campus and the community. John U. Bacon, sportswriter at the times, who has known Harbaugh since third grade, says Harbaugh is really enjoying his alma mater.
4) His wife really, really likes it here and wants stability above all else.
5) At the end of the day, Harbaugh doesn't like the "give" involved in working with NFL players. He likes complete, autocratic control, like he has in Ann Arbor.
6) There's no more greener grass. Lots of coaches had short stays until they found the perfect spot. This, I think, is Harbaugh's perfect spot. The alums, board and AD won't fire him.

Harbaugh's won 72% of the games at Michigan, Bo won about 81%. Harbaugh's 1-2 in Michigan bowl games, Bo was 5-12. They're not all that different. I think the average fan is very, very happy with Harbaugh.

Some other considerations:

* Players are only there 4 or 5 years, so not as much time to get really fed up with Harbaugh's schtick.

* OTOH, assistants, staff, admin, and faculty are there for longer, some much longer. So there's some danger of them getting fed up.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - shakrat - 08-13-2018

(08-13-2018, 12:00 PM)Phogge Wrote: For an interesting war of words TOS Thunderdome is commenting on this topic.

That was the first time I've read that board (or its predecessor) in about a decade. Oof, talk about a toxic culture.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - Phogge - 08-13-2018

Shak, it’s mostly BS but the overwhelming majority are for firing, and/or prosecuting Durkin.

Kelly escaped with his freedom and his job in South Bend. But the 10 or so NFL video directors I spoke with after the Declan incident agreed that the kid shouldn’t have been on the riser in high wind and that the staff was responsible.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - JJJ - 08-14-2018

http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24374654/maryland-terrapins-accept-responsibility-mistakes-made-death-jordan-mcnair?sf195535837=1

Maryland accepts responsibility and parts ways with strength coach.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - 2006alum - 08-14-2018

Was just about to post the same. Glad to see them showing leadership and taking responsibility for what happened. Hopefully the team can begin to move forward, although I can't see how they can let Durkin stay given everything that's been revealed about the culture he promoted.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - Redrum - 08-14-2018

(08-13-2018, 05:45 PM)shakrat Wrote:
(08-13-2018, 12:00 PM)Phogge Wrote: For an interesting war of words TOS Thunderdome is commenting on this topic.

That was the first time I've read that board (or its predecessor) in about a decade. Oof, talk about a toxic culture.

Ummmm. Had too much time post retirement and decided to drop in on the Booty. Like finding your first love girlfriend is now an emaciated recovering crack addict missing too many teeth...and the small group of guys who made her that way are still hanging around on the front stoop yelling at passer-bys. Editor RJ hustles but deserves better companions. A few guys I really respect still post and I miss their contributions, but the emphasis is on the word "few". Big empty echo chamber for the most part. Sad. Add: One CardBoard poster of note started and still mixes with the Booty reprobates. Kudos to him. He's a better companion to a wider swath of Stanford fans than I.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - terry - 08-15-2018

(08-14-2018, 07:11 PM)Redrum Wrote: Ummmm. Had too much time post retirement and decided to drop in on the Booty.

Congratulations on your retirement!

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - BobK - 08-15-2018

With your free time Redrum become a Stanford soccer and volleyball fan and read the Sears Board

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - BostonCard - 08-15-2018

Before we get too high and mighty let us remember that this could happen anywhere, even at Stanford. I would like to think that the priorities handed down from up high are different, and the culture, from the top down makes it less likely, but let's remember that Durkin was once one of our own, was well regarded by the fan base, and I know a few people who at one point thought that over the long run Durkin was the branch of the Harbaugh coaching tree most likely to find the highest levels of success, with at least hushed suggestions that maybe we would have been better off with Durkin than Shaw.

BC

CardinalSagehen - CardinalSagehen - 08-15-2018

(08-15-2018, 06:12 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Before we get too high and mighty let us remember that this could happen anywhere, even at Stanford. I would like to think that the priorities handed down from up high are different, and the culture, from the top down makes it less likely, but let's remember that Durkin was once one of our own, was well regarded by the fan base, and I know a few people who at one point thought that over the long run Durkin was the branch of the Harbaugh coaching tree most likely to find the highest levels of success, with at least hushed suggestions that maybe we would have been better off with Durkin than Shaw.

BC

I agree - I believe Harbaugh's camps when Durkin was around were similar in many respects, but perhaps without the level of psychological torture. Forcing the overweight kid to eat candy bars while watching his teammates work out - that's just sadistic. It's a strange perversion of the Harbaugh tactic of rewarding the winners of the drill with the right to do another lap/set, while the losers watch.

There are also two stories here. One is the tone at the top that allowed this to happen, but the other is an absolute disaster in medical care. McNair was not physically or mentally in control of himself, as observed by many players. It was 80 degrees and humid in Maryland. The protocol, with 100% success rate if applied promptly, is to take the person's temperature and immerse them in cold water BEFORE even thinking about transporting them. They basically admitted yesterday that they did none of this. It's incredibly sad.

I hope other programs, including Stanford, are training/re-training their staff and players about heatstroke.

RE: The inside story of a toxic culture at Maryland football - CTcard - 08-15-2018

(08-15-2018, 06:12 PM)BostonCard Wrote: Before we get too high and mighty let us remember that this could happen anywhere, even at Stanford. I would like to think that the priorities handed down from up high are different, and the culture, from the top down makes it less likely, but let's remember that Durkin was once one of our own, was well regarded by the fan base, and I know a few people who at one point thought that over the long run Durkin was the branch of the Harbaugh coaching tree most likely to find the highest levels of success, with at least hushed suggestions that maybe we would have been better off with Durkin than Shaw.

Well …

Mostly this thread hasn't been all that high and mighty, with many posts noting that this whole deal smacks of Harbaugh at Stanford.

One way or the other this didn't happen at Stanford, or a close call that I know of. Like you, I'd like to think that Stanford would have medical care ready and that the institution would tamp down the worst excesses of any particular coach; but who knows, it may have been blind luck.

There was certainly a large and loud contingent of the Stanford fan base that thought that Durkin, or Roman, or Fangio, or Sanford, or somebody were the capable staff members under Harbaugh who ought to be tapped to be his successor; but certainly not Shaw who just wasn't innovative enough, macho enough, crazed enough, or … something enough to keep success going. I don't remember much hushing of the idea that we'd be better with any of them than Shaw. At this point, it's pretty clear that view was simply wrong, though I am not sure it is completely dead.