What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team?

What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - Printable Version

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What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - 81alum - 09-29-2018

I'll start.

Our pass rush against a good offensive line is nill. This bodes ill for several of our future games.

The way to stop our tall receivers is to front them. Use a basketball defense against a basketball play.

Costello's lack of mobility has been discovered and can now be exploited by defenses that can apply pressure around the pocket.

Our offensive line has still not come together and is springing new leaks--in pass protection now.

Our bend but don't break defense plays much too soft on third and long, giving other teams much too high a third down conversion rate.

We are simply not as good a team as Notre Dame, at this time, this year--on either side of the ball.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - 4thandgoal - 09-29-2018

Our play calling is stubborn and predictable. Our safety does not tackle well. Love cannot run against a 10-man box. I don't know what conclusion to draw from the poor O-line performance. Costello's slow? ND's incredible? The tunnel workers have the talent, but they clearly got punched in the mouth tonight.
Oh yeah, the opposition has a copy of our play book.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - BobK - 09-29-2018

Didn’t block didn’t tackle. And those are Necessary. It’s simple to me.

Bring on the Utes

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - MVCard - 09-29-2018

Our offensive line needs a lot of work. Look, we haven’t been able to get a run game going all season. Tonight when we tried to pull a blocker it wound up as a false start... pehaps because we don’t have the athleticism to do it the legal way?

We’ve seen seasons like this before. At least these days these seasons still usually wind up with a bowl game. Gotta rebuild the o-line.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - washingtonismoney - 09-29-2018

Kinda tough to blame the play calling when the line couldn't protect at all. (And, when blocking, the receivers had an iffy day catching and Costello an iffy game decision-making.) Much as people like to think play-calling is the tonic to whatever ails an offense...it seems like a very strange diagnosis here.

Defensively, the line was obviously less than strong, but I don't understand what the heck the gameplan was. Book had was strong on intermediate passes but never tried to throw deep. Meanwhile the short passing game proceeded pretty much unharmed. I don't think ND's skill position players deserved so much respect: they should've been pressed pretty much as a matter of course.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - 4thandgoal - 09-29-2018

(09-29-2018, 08:40 PM)washingtonismoney Wrote: Kinda tough to blame the play calling when the line couldn't protect at all. (And, when blocking, the receivers had an iffy day catching and Costello an iffy game decision-making.) Much as people like to think play-calling is the tonic to whatever ails an offense...it seems like a very strange diagnosis here.

Defensively, the line was obviously less than strong, but I don't understand what the heck the gameplan was. Book had was strong on intermediate passes but never tried to throw deep. Meanwhile the short passing game proceeded pretty much unharmed. I don't think ND's skill position players deserved so much respect: they should've been pressed pretty much as a matter of course.

Alternately, it's kinda tough to blame the line when the play calling was so transparent.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - d4cohn - 09-29-2018

Game was lost on OL. Perhaps other areas maybe didn't have their strongest performances, but it is hard to fault those other areas, given how atrocious the run and pass blocking was. Given how badly the OL collapsed tonight, I don't think better performances from DL, safetys, coaches (in terms of playcalling) etc. would have made a difference.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - washingtonismoney - 09-29-2018

(09-29-2018, 08:49 PM)4thandgoal Wrote: Alternately, it's kinda tough to blame the line when the play calling was so transparent.

Well, sure, except the first two drives of the game involved the line being unable to get push against a light box and then, subsequently, getting bossed on first- and second-down passes. Things went downhill from there; there were plenty of passes and runs against type in the second half. So I guess I'm wondering what "non-transparent" play calling means, because the complaint this season has been (rightly, to be fair) that there needs to be more passes on first and second down. There was plenty of that and the N.D. defensive line teed off anyway.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - Goose - 09-29-2018

It tells us that for whatever reason our offensive line is ineffective. There well may be many other issues, but, for Stanford, the line needs to make holes in the run game. We have been pretty much unable to do that all year. Until we can, we are hanging on by a thread. Tonight, the thread broke. Hopefully, next week, we can improve the line play. If we can't, it will be a long year. BL may be hurt, and that's bad. However, with no improvement on the OL, we may be better off with Scarlett.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - muiron - 09-29-2018

Both teams increased the pressure in the second half. Theirs got to us and showed up Costello's problems in mobility and throwing on the run. Ours flushed Book a lot but couldn't wrap him up - and he made up pay with arm and feet. But ND did go to a lot quicker passing plays - and we didn't.

Whether it was lost on the O line or won by ND by their front seven, we got whipped. My 41-21 prediction was....wrong.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - 4thandgoal - 09-29-2018

(09-29-2018, 08:53 PM)washingtonismoney Wrote:
(09-29-2018, 08:49 PM)4thandgoal Wrote: Alternately, it's kinda tough to blame the line when the play calling was so transparent.

Well, sure, except the first two drives of the game involved the line being unable to get push against a light box and then, subsequently, getting bossed on first- and second-down passes. Things went downhill from there; there were plenty of passes and runs against type in the second half. So I guess I'm wondering what "non-transparent" play calling means, because the complaint this season has been (rightly, to be fair) that there needs to be more passes on first and second down. There was plenty of that and the N.D. defensive line teed off anyway.

Undeniably true. The ND line teed off. But why? You claim that we couldn't run against a light box. I can recall running two times against a light box(7 or less). I'm claiming that our line played poorly-and ND played great- when we ran against a loaded box. For example, we opened the game running Love for zero, Love for zero, incomplete pass. An overwhelming percentage of our runs came against a run defense. Likewise, we passed against pass defenses.
Look, it's a hypothesis in some ways. But it has the advantage of explaining a weak run game in 5 straight games against lesser opponents-ND included.
In all likelihood, the line hasn't gelled. They're not going to gel against relentless stacked boxes.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - 81alum - 09-29-2018

I have often criticized our unimaginative play calling. But tonight I don't think that was the problem. Our problems were much more basic. For example, there were quite a few plays called that went against the down tendencies and they failed too. So even when we called what I thought was the "right" play we failed.

The most basic truth is that Notre Dame was able to get significant pressure on our QB while only rushing 4--and Costello could not scramble to get out of the pressure. But when we rushed 4 on defense their QB had all day to pass or scramble and they made 1st downs out of long yardage situations over and over.

ND was 8/19 on 3rd down. We were 2/11.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - Snorlax94 - 09-29-2018

It’s still pretty early in the season. So there are still questions about how much was circumstance, how much is us, how much is them. But here’s what the game tells me:
#1) Our offensive line got beat bad. I think there have been enough data points to say that something is definitely amiss. My biggest fear is that it was Bloomgren’s departure. We have incredible talent on the oline. We have multiple years of top recruits. Regardless of how good ND might be, top talent shouldn’t get beat like this.

#2) For the third game in a row, the team came out flat and dug itself in a hole, but this time, the opponent was good enough that we couldn’t dig our way out. This week, it was the receivers’ turn to start flat, dropping too many balls early.

#3) Notre Dame looks to be a top 5 team. If today’s game is an accurate reflection of how they can play each week, they will be a solid playoff pick.

#4) I still think Stanford is a very good team, how good? We’ll learn a lot with Utah and ASU. I doubt anyone on the schedule can stop Stanford’s offense the way ND did. Stanford is still in control of its destiny to aim for a conference championship and the Rose Bowl.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - BostonCard - 09-29-2018

'

(09-29-2018, 10:02 PM)Snorlax94 Wrote: It’s still pretty early in the season. So there are still questions about how much was circumstance, how much is us, how much is them. But here’s what the game tells me:
#1) Our offensive line got beat bad. I think there have been enough data points to say that something is definitely amiss. My biggest fear is that it was Bloomgren’s departure. We have incredible talent on the oline. We have multiple years of top recruits. Regardless of how good ND might be, top talent shouldn’t get beat like this.

#2) For the third game in a row, the team came out flat and dug itself in a hole, but this time, the opponent was good enough that we couldn’t dig our way out. This week, it was the receivers’ turn to start flat, dropping too many balls early.

#3) Notre Dame looks to be a top 5 team. If today’s game is an accurate reflection of how they can play each week, they will be a solid playoff pick.

#4) I still think Stanford is a very good team, how good? We’ll learn a lot with Utah and ASU. I doubt anyone on the schedule can stop Stanford’s offense the way ND did. Stanford is still in control of its destiny to aim for a conference championship and the Rose Bowl.

UW can. WSU is always a tough out. We should be favored against most of the other teams we face, but we are going to have to get better OL play than tonight.

BC

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - fullmetal - 09-29-2018

Like Hulk, I don't really consider Bloomgren a positive influence on the OL (but I'm not willing to die on that hill). I'm going to stick with the injury hypothesis, but who knows if that will ever be proven (would take a full return of the line and execution to their potential).

We can't just rush four players. You have to trust your secondary and rush with five to get pressure.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - Austroturf - 09-30-2018

The dysfunctional play of the O-line represents the current ceiling for this team. Without substantial improvement in this unit, the 2018 version of the Cardinal football team will struggle to end the regular season 9-3 and is more likely an 8-4 team with a Sun Bowl in its future. I know nothing about the new O-line coach, Kevin Carberry. In Stanford's current run of success, there is this expectation that O-line excellence is only a function of the talent we have and that player development and coaching are sort of built into the framework. Maybe we are truly seeing a drop off from Bloomgren's O-line leadership. Whatever the cause, the O-line has been the single largest disappointment this season. I thought it would be our salvation; instead, it has become a liability.

The defense is not nearly as stout as we had imagined (or hoped) after the first three games. Against San Diego State, we could scheme against a rather one-dimensional offense. In the USC game, an inexperienced QB made our defensive work easier. Then came UC Davis. Not a real challenge. But in the last two games, facing a balanced offense run by excellent QBs, the defense has been exposed. I predict the defense will struggle against UW, WSU, ASU and potentially Cal.

It would be easy to call out the lack of creativity in the play-calling; but the real problem right now is the O-line. If there is no effective run or pass blocking, the play-calling is really secondary.

I did predict that we would lose this game; but I expected it to be much closer (a FG or so) and a very even match-up. But ND doubled our offensive production, which was anemic.

It is probably too early for any updates on Love's injury. This is what I feared would happen if Shaw insisted on slamming him up the middle repeatedly. And with the O-line not opening any holes, the wear and tear is even worse.

On a more optimistic note, a 6-1 USC team ventured to South Bend last season and was annihilated by the Irish 49-14. USC went on to win the Pac-12 that year (against us in the championship game) and played in the Cotton Bowl. And Stanford took apart that same Notre Dame team that decimated USC. We are almost certainly out of the CFP discussion; but, frankly, I never considered this team CFP-worthy.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - JPR36 - 09-30-2018

(09-30-2018, 02:29 AM)Austroturf Wrote: The dysfunctional play of the O-line represents the current ceiling for this team. Without substantial improvement in this unit, the 2018 version of the Cardinal football team will struggle to end the regular season 9-3 and is more likely an 8-4 team with a Sun Bowl in its future. I know nothing about the new O-line coach, Kevin Carberry. In Stanford's current run of success, there is this expectation that O-line excellence is only a function of the talent we have and that player development and coaching are sort of built into the framework. Maybe we are truly seeing a drop off from Bloomgren's O-line leadership. Whatever the cause, the O-line has been the single largest disappointment this season. I thought it would be our salvation; instead, it has become a liability.

The defense is not nearly as stout as we had imagined (or hoped) after the first three games. Against San Diego State, we could scheme against a rather one-dimensional offense. In the USC game, an inexperienced QB made our defensive work easier. Then came UC Davis. Not a real challenge. But in the last two games, facing a balanced offense run by excellent QBs, the defense has been exposed. I predict the defense will struggle against UW, WSU, ASU and potentially Cal.

It would be easy to call out the lack of creativity in the play-calling; but the real problem right now is the O-line. If there is no effective run or pass blocking, the play-calling is really secondary.

I did predict that we would lose this game; but I expected it to be much closer (a FG or so) and a very even match-up. But ND doubled our offensive production, which was anemic.

It is probably too early for any updates on Love's injury. This is what I feared would happen if Shaw insisted on slamming him up the middle repeatedly. And with the O-line not opening any holes, the wear and tear is even worse.

On a more optimistic note, a 6-1 USC team ventured to South Bend last season and was annihilated by the Irish 49-14. USC went on to win the Pac-12 that year (against us in the championship game) and played in the Cotton Bowl. And Stanford took apart that same Notre Dame team that decimated USC. We are almost certainly out of the CFP discussion; but, frankly, I never considered this team CFP-worthy.

We struggle on the road (a lot of teams do), and when we play a good team we can't expect them to bail us out with miscues the way the Ducks did last week. At least we played ND tough for three quarters (unlike the 2016 Washington game where we collapsed from the opening kickoff). Like everyone else, I'm puzzled as to why the OL is playing so poorly. Injuries no doubt have something to do with it, but I can't believe that is the entire reason.
Anyone's guess as to how we will do the rest of this season. It's easy after a game like this to start predicting doom and gloom, but I think that's an overreaction. I agree 8-4 or 9-3 makes sense right now.

stanfordmatt - StanfordMatt - 09-30-2018

(09-30-2018, 05:15 AM)JPR36 Wrote: It's easy after a game like this to start predicting doom and gloom, but I think that's an overreaction. I agree 8-4 or 9-3 makes sense right now.

“8-4 or 9-3” sounds pretty doomed and gloomy to me.

And yes, I was a student during Walt and Buddy. I know true doom and gloom. I just think that with the current talent level of the team and state of the program, 8-4 or 9-3 sounds pretty sad. Our OL is playing as poorly as it has in a decade but I still think 10-2 is a realistic expectation. Aside from UW, we should go into every game remaining on the schedule as the favorite according to Vegas.

RE: stanfordmatt - JPR36 - 09-30-2018

(09-30-2018, 06:29 AM)StanfordMatt Wrote:
(09-30-2018, 05:15 AM)JPR36 Wrote: It's easy after a game like this to start predicting doom and gloom, but I think that's an overreaction. I agree 8-4 or 9-3 makes sense right now.

Wait, I thought “8-4 or 9-3” was the doom and gloom. You mean it can get worse than that???

Perhaps by today's standards it's doom and gloom, but some of us older fans remember the late '70's when Bill Walsh came in and led Stanford to 9-3 and 8-4 seasons.
Stanford fans were dancing in the streets and every NFL club was falling all over itself trying to hire him.

RE: What does the Notre Dame Loss tell us about our team? - winflop - 09-30-2018

Takeaways from last night:
1. ShawVita needs to recognize this team for what it is not what he hopes it is. This team is inacapable of being run-first and winning. The OL can't run block - we've now seen it for FIVE STINKING WEEKS. This doesn't mean abandon the run. But it does mean we need to start throwing the ball on first down more often and earlier in the game
2. ShawVita needs to call more deception plays - not trick plays. Just pass out of run formations & vice versa. Formations continue to be way too predictable
3. Our OL ain't what it used to be. Part coaching (new OL coach), part talent, part injury. I don't think Little is healthy. Not sure about Hall but he's had two awful games in a row. LG continues to be a serious problem.
4. Our DL cannot generate pressure on its own. We have to rush at least 4 on every single play unless it's 3rd & a mile
5. Notre Dame is an elite team with Book at QB. The difference between him and Wimbush could not be more stark. He was the difference last night.
6. I still see a lot of chatter about just needing to win at UW. People are overlooking the ASU game.