Minshew explained.... - Printable Version

Minshew explained.... - Printable Version

+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: Minshew explained.... (/thread-16650.html)

Pages: 1 2

Minshew explained.... - COUG - 10-25-2018

Hey guys...everything you wanted to know about our QB, if interested...

BYW, we thought Luke Falk was sensational. GM is an upgrade.. Quick release, and does not hold onto the ball. Studied the Air Raid for several years while growing up.
.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/collegesports/article/Stanford-faces-a-big-problem-in-WSU-QB-Gardner-13333448.php

RE: Minshew explained.... - JPR36 - 10-25-2018

(10-25-2018, 11:06 AM)COUG Wrote: Hey guys...everything you wanted to know about our QB, if interested...

BYW, we thought Luke Falk was sensational. GM is an upgrade.. Quick release, and does not hold onto the ball. Studied the Air Raid for several years while growing up.
.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/collegesports/article/Stanford-faces-a-big-problem-in-WSU-QB-Gardner-13333448.php

Yeah, the fact that the guy is a player is not news to us.
What amazes me is that a guy with a not overly impressive college resume (transferred from Troy because he couldn't beat out the incumbent, split time with another guy at East Carolina) can come into Wazzu and almost instantly become a star.
BTW here is an interesting read on Leach.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/eccentric-and-effective-mike-leach-has-washington-state-winning-and-making-a-playoff-push/

RE: Minshew explained.... - OutsiderFan - 10-25-2018

Falk was overrated.

The bigger point is every Leach QB is successful going back to Texas Tech. But remind me how many Leach QBs are NFL starting QBs? Oh, that's right, zero. So I guess that means Leach's system is more responsible for success than any QB he rolls out behind Center.

I give Leach a lot of credit for figuring out a way to make QBs so successful. I very much doubt Minshew would be having that success anywhere but at Washington State.

RE: Minshew explained.... - Austroturf - 10-25-2018

(10-25-2018, 12:23 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Falk was overrated.

The bigger point is every Leach QB is successful going back to Texas Tech. But remind me how many Leach QBs are NFL starting QBs? Oh, that's right, zero. So I guess that means Leach's system is more responsible for success than any QB he rolls out behind Center.

I give Leach a lot of credit for figuring out a way to make QBs so successful. I very much doubt Minshew would be having that success anywhere but at Washington State.

Yes, I have also been scratching my head about that. Minshew did not arrive in Pullman until May, then won the starting job and, so far, has been executing the air raid offense as if he had spent all five years at Wazzu. Contrast that with Stanford's QB development: Costello is now in his third full year with the program, and there is still talk about whether he has fully mastered the playbook and whether Shaw can fully entrust him with the keys to the offense. I wonder what kind of numbers Costello would have been putting up in Leach's system.

RE: Minshew explained.... - Hulk01 - 10-25-2018

Luke Falk ranked 9th in the conference for PER and QBR last year.

RE: Minshew explained.... - CTcard - 10-25-2018

(10-25-2018, 01:00 PM)Hulk01 Wrote: Luke Falk ranked 9th in the conference for PER and QBR last year.

Indeed, with the Cougs folks lose tend to confuse passing a lot with passing well. Last year, WSU was primarily successful because of their defense.

On the other hand, this year Minshew is #3 in the conference in PER at 150.7 (behind Herbert 159.7 and Costello 152.4).
WSU's offense is doing well, albeit mostly against weaker competition so far. They are averaging 3.37 points per drive, which is fourth in the country.

RE: Minshew explained.... - JPR36 - 10-25-2018

(10-25-2018, 01:00 PM)Hulk01 Wrote: Luke Falk ranked 9th in the conference for PER and QBR last year.

Yeah, Falk had his good days and his not so good days.
Unfortunately, it seemed like his days against Stanford were mostly good.

RE: Minshew explained.... - CornFed - 10-25-2018

Maybe Leach is similar in his effect on QB's to June Jones. The latter's QB's lit up statistcally but they were not impressive to NFL scouts; mostly because his system had no relevance at the next level.

RE: Minshew explained.... - Hulk01 - 10-25-2018

Minshaw has put together stronger numbers than Falk to be sure, and above average numbers.

Against our common three opponents (Utah, Oregon, and USC), Minshaw was a 143.2 PER.
That's solid, about 15% above average against those defenses
Costello averaged 161.7.

RE: Minshew explained.... - cardcrimson - 10-25-2018

(10-25-2018, 01:15 PM)CornFed Wrote: Maybe Leach is similar in his effect on QB's to June Jones. The latter's QB's lit up statistcally but they were not impressive to NFL scouts; mostly because his system had no relevance at the next level.

But times, they are a'changin. Look at KC and LA--getting closer and closer to air raid type offenses.

RE: Minshew explained.... - Phogge - 10-25-2018

First half Minshaw vs Oregon is all I saw. Had great touch. Gets ball off quickly.

RE: Minshew explained.... - JPR36 - 10-25-2018

(10-25-2018, 02:01 PM)Phogge Wrote: First half Minshaw vs Oregon is all I saw. Had great touch. Gets ball off quickly.

Yeah, I think we are all hoping that Costello has an excellent day, and Minshaw a not so excellent one. Could get a little ugly if the reverse is true.

RE: Minshew explained.... - BostonCard - 10-25-2018

(10-25-2018, 01:00 PM)Austroturf Wrote: Yes, I have also been scratching my head about that. Minshew did not arrive in Pullman until May, then won the starting job and, so far, has been executing the air raid offense as if he had spent all five years at Wazzu. Contrast that with Stanford's QB development: Costello is now in his third full year with the program, and there is still talk about whether he has fully mastered the playbook and whether Shaw can fully entrust him with the keys to the offense. I wonder what kind of numbers Costello would have been putting up in Leach's system.

And yet, Costello's pass efficiency rating (152) is basically the same as Minshew's (151), and behind only future NFL first rounder Justin Herbert's (161). Minshew leads the league in yards per game, but that's because he throws 52 passes a game (compared to 30/game for Costello).

Costello's PER has improved 12 points from last year (152 vs. 140) and his completion percentage has improved by six percentage points (65% vs. 59%). Both Hogan and Luck improved over the course of their careers, though Hogan had a bit more of an up and down career. Still, generally speaking our QB's improve substantially between their (redshirt) freshman and senior years.

Luke Falk's PER was basically the same as a senior (137) as it was as a freshman (140), and his completion percentage improved marginally (64 to 67%). Looking at other WSU QB's (Connor Halliday, Jeff Tuel) since Leech became coach show similar patterns; his QB's don't really improve with experience.

To me that suggests that if you have a fairly inexperienced QB, you are better off in Leech's system, but once a QB has been around for a couple years, they are better off in the Shaw/Harbaugh system.

BC

lex24 - lex24 - 10-25-2018

Not the Rams. They have a terrific running game. Team is loaded. But it starts with Gurley.

(10-25-2018, 01:47 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(10-25-2018, 01:15 PM)CornFed Wrote: Maybe Leach is similar in his effect on QB's to June Jones. The latter's QB's lit up statistcally but they were not impressive to NFL scouts; mostly because his system had no relevance at the next level.

But times, they are a'changin. Look at KC and LA--getting closer and closer to air raid type offenses.

RE: Minshew explained.... - Phogge - 10-25-2018

Plus a very capable second back, a young coach running a balanced offense and with the best DL in football.

RE: Minshew explained.... - newguy - 10-25-2018

(10-25-2018, 08:54 PM)Phogge Wrote: Plus a very capable second back, a young coach running a balanced offense and with the best DL in football.

if Wazzu has a strong D Line, we could be in for a long night.

RE: Minshew explained.... - BostonCard - 10-25-2018

(10-25-2018, 11:08 PM)newguy Wrote:
(10-25-2018, 08:54 PM)Phogge Wrote: Plus a very capable second back, a young coach running a balanced offense and with the best DL in football.

if Wazzu has a strong D Line, we could be in for a long night.

I think that specific statement may have been in reference to the Rams, not the Cougars.

That being said, their D line has given us fits in the past and seemed to give Oregon all they could handle in the first half. I’m not liking this match up.

BC

RE: Minshew explained.... - Austroturf - 10-26-2018

(10-25-2018, 02:36 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(10-25-2018, 01:00 PM)Austroturf Wrote: Yes, I have also been scratching my head about that. Minshew did not arrive in Pullman until May, then won the starting job and, so far, has been executing the air raid offense as if he had spent all five years at Wazzu. Contrast that with Stanford's QB development: Costello is now in his third full year with the program, and there is still talk about whether he has fully mastered the playbook and whether Shaw can fully entrust him with the keys to the offense. I wonder what kind of numbers Costello would have been putting up in Leach's system.

And yet, Costello's pass efficiency rating (152) is basically the same as Minshew's (151), and behind only future NFL first rounder Justin Herbert's (161). Minshew leads the league in yards per game, but that's because he throws 52 passes a game (compared to 30/game for Costello).

Costello's PER has improved 12 points from last year (152 vs. 140) and his completion percentage has improved by six percentage points (65% vs. 59%). Both Hogan and Luck improved over the course of their careers, though Hogan had a bit more of an up and down career. Still, generally speaking our QB's improve substantially between their (redshirt) freshman and senior years.

Luke Falk's PER was basically the same as a senior (137) as it was as a freshman (140), and his completion percentage improved marginally (64 to 67%). Looking at other WSU QB's (Connor Halliday, Jeff Tuel) since Leech became coach show similar patterns; his QB's don't really improve with experience.

To me that suggests that if you have a fairly inexperienced QB, you are better off in Leech's system, but once a QB has been around for a couple years, they are better off in the Shaw/Harbaugh system.

BC

Yes, that's a fair conclusion. I am just bemused to see how long it takes Stanford to get a QB ready for prime-time. It means you only have a QB in his prime for maybe a 1 1/2 to 2 seasons, unless it's an Andrew Luck-type phenom who also decides to stick around for his senior year despite being the prospective #1 draft pick. Hogan was also a bit of an exception, but experienced serious regression for the first three-quarters of the 2014 season (certainly partially due to poor O-line play). Last year, Costello came on and looked excellent in his first two games (UCLA and ASU), but there was all this banter about how he didn't have a full grasp of the playbook and could only run an excerpted version. I sometimes feel Stanford's system shackles a QB and doesn't let him show what he is capable of. Too complex, even though much of the actual execution is a hand-off to a back running up the middle.

RE: Minshew explained.... - JPR36 - 10-26-2018

(10-25-2018, 11:36 PM)BostonCard Wrote:
(10-25-2018, 11:08 PM)newguy Wrote:
(10-25-2018, 08:54 PM)Phogge Wrote: Plus a very capable second back, a young coach running a balanced offense and with the best DL in football.

if Wazzu has a strong D Line, we could be in for a long night.

I think that specific statement may have been in reference to the Rams, not the Cougars.

That being said, their D line has given us fits in the past and seemed to give Oregon all they could handle in the first half. I’m not liking this match up.

BC

At the same time Oregon State was able to put up 37 points and nearly 500 yards total offense (including over 200 yards rushing) against the Coug defense. So it doesn't seem like they are a totally immovable object.

RE: Minshew explained.... - Hulk01 - 10-26-2018

Not a strong DL for WSU, but quick.

120th in the nation at stopping short yardage, as one metric.