players sitting out of bowl games - Printable Version
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: players sitting out of bowl games (/thread-16972.html)
+- The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board)
+-- Forum: C-House! (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The CardBoard (https://thecardboard.org/board/forum-5.html)
+--- Thread: players sitting out of bowl games (/thread-16972.html)
players sitting out of bowl games - 82lsju - 12-10-2018
this article has the current list at 11 12.
Biggest impact so far West Virginia with their QB and one of their starting tackles not playing in the Camping World Bowl.
Biggest game with a player sitting out so far the Fiesta Bowl with one of LSU's CBs not playing
https://sports.yahoo.com/college-football-players-sitting-bowl-games-2018-210123415.html
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - SamuelMcF - 12-10-2018
(12-10-2018, 10:17 AM)82lsju Wrote: this article has the current list at 11.
12 :) and it’s only been a week since the bowls were announced.
I believe there were 9 last year and 2 (CMac and Fournette) in 2016. Trend continues upward.
CardinalSagehen - CardinalSagehen - 12-10-2018
(12-10-2018, 10:17 AM)82lsju Wrote: Biggest game with a player sitting out so far the Fiesta Bowl with one of LSU's CBs not playing
Yep, and that LSU CB's name happens to be Greedy Williams. Apparently, he's "not just hungry for success, [he's] Greedy." He probably should have told his coaching staff before Tweeting his decision, though.
https://twitter.com/G_Will29/status/1069358043815653376/photo/1
lex24 - lex24 - 12-10-2018
Good for them. They have earned this. From the standpoint of the program it’s not a negative. In fact I think it’s a positive. They get to work more with the players theyhave next year in practice during the game etc. Which is the main benefit of the mid to low level bowl game anyway.
I think a major reasons that you see more players sitting out is the combine. McCaffrey is a great example. I don’t think he’s drafted eighth if he doesn’t do what he did at the combine. As a result he improved his status and made a whole lot more money. Plus he wanted to prove he could be a running back in the NFL. There were a whole lot of people, including Stanford fans who watched him for three years for god sake‘s, saying that he should be a slot receiver. Well, I don’t think there any doubters anymore. The guy is a top five running back in the NFL.
The West Virginia quarterback is in somewhat of the same situation. The knock on him is his arm strength. So what do you think he’s doing during this time frame? He’s going to do everything he can to put himself in a position where he raises his draft position at the combine. He can do that more working out on his own then he can getting ready to play in a meaningless bowl game.
I get the counter argument. They’re letting their teammates down etc. Although quite honestly I doubt that many teammates really feel that way. I think they get it more than we do. These kids have given a lot and received essentially nothing. Well the universities and the NCAA makes a freaking boatload of money off them. They have a chance to cash in. But it’s a fleeting chance. So they are doing what they can to maximize it.
Frankly I wish Love was sitting out the Sun Bowl. Get healthy. Give himself the best chance to improve his draft position and succeed at the next level. He’s given enough. Hell he’s essentially played hurt for about the last 18 games.
RE: lex24 - qwerty49 - 12-10-2018
(12-10-2018, 10:56 PM)lex24 Wrote: Good for them. They have earned this. From the standpoint of the program it’s not a negative. In fact I think it’s a positive. They get to work more with the players theyhave next year in practice during the game etc. Which is the main benefit of the mid to low level bowl game anyway.
I think a major reasons that you see more players sitting out is the combine. McCaffrey is a great example. I don’t think he’s drafted eighth if he doesn’t do what he did at the combine. As a result he improved his status and made a whole lot more money. Plus he wanted to prove he could be a running back in the NFL. There were a whole lot of people, including Stanford fans who watched him for three years for god sake‘s, saying that he should be a slot receiver. Well, I don’t think there any doubters anymore. The guy is a top five running back in the NFL.
The West Virginia quarterback is in somewhat of the same situation. The knock on him is his arm strength. So what do you think he’s doing during this time frame? He’s going to do everything he can to put himself in a position where he raises his draft position at the combine. He can do that more working out on his own then he can getting ready to play in a meaningless bowl game.
I get the counter argument. They’re letting their teammates down etc. Although quite honestly I doubt that many teammates really feel that way. I think they get it more than we do. These kids have given a lot and received essentially nothing. Well the universities and the NCAA makes a freaking boatload of money off them. They have a chance to cash in. But it’s a fleeting chance. So they are doing what they can to maximize it.
Frankly I wish Love was sitting out the Sun Bowl. Get healthy. Give himself the best chance to improve his draft position and succeed at the next level. He’s given enough. Hell he’s essentially played hurt for about the last 18 games.
Agree, especially about Bryce.
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - StanfordMatt - 12-11-2018
Maybe I’m just a crotchety old curmudgeon, but I think it’s disgraceful and the utmost sign of selfishness when a healthy player sits out of a bowl game. I say this as someone who thinks that college athletes should be paid and are too often exploited by the NCAA and the schools that they work for. To me, it’s not about the commitment that they made to their school, it’s about quitting on the commitment that they made to their teammates. They’re broadcasting loud and clear to their teammates that they believe their personal self-interest is more important than the interests of the other members of the team. I get that some players respect the decisions of teammates who quit before bowl games, but I can guarantee you that those sentiments are never universally shared by all team members.
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - M T - 12-11-2018
It seems the next step in the progression of this logic would be that Bryce Love maybe should have sat out the Cal game.
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - JohnR34231 - 12-11-2018
(12-11-2018, 12:57 AM)M T Wrote: It seems the next step in the progression of this logic would be that Bryce Love maybe should have sat out the Cal game.
It seems to me that we went through the pros and cons of players sitting out bowl games in agonizing detail during the Christian McCaffrey brouhaha.
Players are going to do what they are going to do. When millions of $$ are at stake it's hard to blame them.
As I said back then, I agree the logical progression of all this is players sitting out portions of the season because they have decided that the rewards of a higher NFL draft position by continuing to play do not outweigh the risks of being injured and going down in the draft.
When that starts happening I think it will be very unfortunate for college football. I hope the NFL strongly discourages it.
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - Stymie - 12-11-2018
Let's be honest. The only bowl games that would stimulate our fan base are the Playoffs and the Rose. All the rest are just road trips, for a small number of fans and most of the players. I can't even remember what bowl game we played in two years ago (the year of "The McCaffrey Conundrum"), whom we played against and who won.
This year, any player who is dinged and a seriously potential Sunday game player (e.g. Love, Smith and Arcega-Whiteside, and maybe Herbig) is playing against the odds if he suits up and plays. I see these lowly bowls as a chance for future draft picks (e.g. Costello, Parkinson, Little, Sarrell plus the young receivers, running backs and defensive players) to strut their stuff before a 2pm EST audience, and a chance for the 40+ year brigade a chance to have a final on the field bonding with their team mates.
Consider this year's Sun Bowl to be a pre-season (2019) game and a chance to enjoy the charms of El Paso, and please don't slag the young men who decide that it is in their best interest to take a pass of playing this game.....
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - JohnR34231 - 12-11-2018
(12-11-2018, 04:28 AM)Stymie Wrote: Let's be honest. The only bowl games that would stimulate our fan base are the Playoffs and the Rose. All the rest are just road trips, for a small number of fans and most of the players. I can't even remember what bowl game we played in two years ago (the year of "The McCaffrey Conundrum"), whom we played against and who won.
This year, any player who is dinged and a seriously potential Sunday game player (e.g. Love, Smith and Arcega-Whiteside, and maybe Herbig) is playing against the odds if he suits up and plays. I see these lowly bowls as a chance for future draft picks (e.g. Costello, Parkinson, Little, Sarrell plus the young receivers, running backs and defensive players) to strut their stuff before a 2pm EST audience, and a chance for the 40+ year brigade a chance to have a final on the field bonding with their team mates.
Consider this year's Sun Bowl to be a pre-season (2019) game and a chance to enjoy the charms of El Paso, and please don't slag the young men who decide that it is in their best interest to take a pass of playing this game.....
The problem I have with this line of thinking that it is OK for a player to skip a game if he decides it is in "his best interest" is what if someone decides it is in his best interest to skip games during the regular season? Is that OK too? Is this game any more "meaningless", than, say, the OSU or UCLA games? Were the people who played in those games playing "against the odds" also?
It is too bad that bowls have so proliferated that playing in one is no longer a big deal to anyone. I can remember when we played in the Sun Bowl after the 1977 season everyone was very excited. No one would have made a comment like this then.
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - stupac2 - 12-11-2018
(12-11-2018, 06:02 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote: The problem I have with this line of thinking that it is OK for a player to skip a game if he decides it is in "his best interest" is what if someone decides it is in his best interest to skip games during the regular season? Is that OK too? Is this game any more "meaningless", than, say, the OSU or UCLA games? Were the people who played in those games playing "against the odds" also?
I mean, Nick Bosa basically did that, and OSU had a shot at the playoffs!
Frankly, I think what we're seeing is the problem with using college football as the de facto NFL minor league. There's this weird mix of people (including players/coaches/etc) who don't really care that that's what it is, and those would prefer it was like, oh, you know, basically every other college sport. This is just going to keep getting worse and worse now that it's been normalized, and I honestly wonder if the charade is sustainable. I guess MBB has been like this for a while now and it's still chugging along...
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - SamuelMcF - 12-11-2018
(12-11-2018, 09:27 AM)stupac2 Wrote: Frankly, I think what we're seeing is the problem with using college football as the de facto NFL minor league. There's this weird mix of people (including players/coaches/etc) who don't really care that that's what it is, and those would prefer it was like, oh, you know, basically every other college sport. This is just going to keep getting worse and worse now that it's been normalized, and I honestly wonder if the charade is sustainable. I guess MBB has been like this for a while now and it's still chugging along...
Ding ding ding!
Except MBB fans think the one-and-done model is monumentally stupid (see Duke this year - DUKE! One of the best schools in the country!) and there are many rumblings that it might be going away soon. Plus, injuries in basketball are much much rarer than in football, and only 96 teams play in the postseason out of 351 (27%, vs. over 50% for football); the postseason tournament format means no game is meaningless.
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - BostonCard - 12-11-2018
According to this article, it may be a while before the NBA acts. Then again, Condi’s commission may force the issue:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2018/06/15/nba-one-and-done-rule-unlikely-change-ahead-2021-draft/706525002/
Quote:The commission said if the NBA and NBPA refuse to change the rule in time for the next basketball season, it would reconvene and potentially recommend other options for the NCAA, such as making freshmen ineligible or locking a scholarship for three or four years if the recipient leaves a program after a single year.
I would love to see these measures put in place as it would totally neutralize the advantage of recruiting one and done’s and would send a clear message to the NBA that college basketball is not the NBA’s minor league. I’d support making freshmen ineligible and holding a scholarship for three years so that it actually hurts the dukes and Kentucky’s or the world to take athletes who never intend to be students.
BC
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - Stymie - 12-11-2018
(12-11-2018, 06:02 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote:(12-11-2018, 04:28 AM)Stymie Wrote: Let's be honest. The only bowl games that would stimulate our fan base are the Playoffs and the Rose. All the rest are just road trips, for a small number of fans and most of the players. I can't even remember what bowl game we played in two years ago (the year of "The McCaffrey Conundrum"), whom we played against and who won.
This year, any player who is dinged and a seriously potential Sunday game player (e.g. Love, Smith and Arcega-Whiteside, and maybe Herbig) is playing against the odds if he suits up and plays. I see these lowly bowls as a chance for future draft picks (e.g. Costello, Parkinson, Little, Sarrell plus the young receivers, running backs and defensive players) to strut their stuff before a 2pm EST audience, and a chance for the 40+ year brigade a chance to have a final on the field bonding with their team mates.
Consider this year's Sun Bowl to be a pre-season (2019) game and a chance to enjoy the charms of El Paso, and please don't slag the young men who decide that it is in their best interest to take a pass of playing this game.....
The problem I have with this line of thinking that it is OK for a player to skip a game if he decides it is in "his best interest" is what if someone decides it is in his best interest to skip games during the regular season? Is that OK too? Is this game any more "meaningless", than, say, the OSU or UCLA games? Were the people who played in those games playing "against the odds" also?
It is too bad that bowls have so proliferated that playing in one is no longer a big deal to anyone. I can remember when we played in the Sun Bowl after the 1977 season everyone was very excited. No one would have made a comment like this then.
JohnR
I was at El Paso in 1977, and I very much enjoyed the ambience and the win over LSU. But that was then and now is now. CFB was a kinder gentler game in those days, and few players hit other players with as much speed and pumped-up muscularity and malice. I don't think that CTE was an issue or even an acronym in those good ole days. The few Stanford players who managed to play on Sunday weren't paid that much then, and rarely got seriously hurt, as I recall. These days, the best players can earn more in 5-10 years than the average programmer can in 40+, and even the hangers-on like Hogan can make nearly $1 million/year without hardly getting in harms way. What if Bryce gets inadvertently smashed by Pitt, and has to spend the rest of his pediatrician life limping down hospital corridors to his patients? I'm sure he'd still be fulfilled by his passion, but what if......?
There were 12 bowl games in 1977 (plus one for the minnows). This year there are 40+ (with lots of minnows). I know that a lot of people do care, but I do not.
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - slide - 12-11-2018
(12-11-2018, 11:34 AM)BostonCard Wrote: I would love to see these measures put in place as it would totally neutralize the advantage of recruiting one and done’s and would send a clear message to the NBA that college basketball is not the NBA’s minor league. I’d support making freshmen ineligible and holding a scholarship for three years so that it actually hurts the dukes and Kentucky’s or the world to take athletes who never intend to be students.
BC
similar to old recs from the old Knight Commission. I believe a one and done cost the team the scholarship may be 5 years (length of time for average graduation). Knight also spoke about penalties trailing college coaches so they couldn't create a mess and then move on scot-free.
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - JohnR34231 - 12-11-2018
(12-11-2018, 09:27 AM)stupac2 Wrote:(12-11-2018, 06:02 AM)JohnR34231 Wrote: The problem I have with this line of thinking that it is OK for a player to skip a game if he decides it is in "his best interest" is what if someone decides it is in his best interest to skip games during the regular season? Is that OK too? Is this game any more "meaningless", than, say, the OSU or UCLA games? Were the people who played in those games playing "against the odds" also?
I mean, Nick Bosa basically did that, and OSU had a shot at the playoffs!
Frankly, I think what we're seeing is the problem with using college football as the de facto NFL minor league. There's this weird mix of people (including players/coaches/etc) who don't really care that that's what it is, and those would prefer it was like, oh, you know, basically every other college sport. This is just going to keep getting worse and worse now that it's been normalized, and I honestly wonder if the charade is sustainable. I guess MBB has been like this for a while now and it's still chugging along...
Yeah, I think the idea that, at least for the better players, college football has become merely a training ground/minor league for the NFL is very unfortunate. I think it would be great if there were really a minor league for players who are only interested in getting to the NFL, so that the people who do play college football are really student-athletes.
RE: lex24 - JustAnotherFan - 12-11-2018
(12-10-2018, 10:56 PM)lex24 Wrote: Frankly I wish Love was sitting out the Sun Bowl. Get healthy. Give himself the best chance to improve his draft position and succeed at the next level. He’s given enough. Hell he’s essentially played hurt for about the last 18 games.
Bryce Love does not get drafted in the first round, refuses to sign, and goes to medical school.
RE: lex24 - JohnR34231 - 12-12-2018
(12-11-2018, 09:33 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:(12-10-2018, 10:56 PM)lex24 Wrote: Frankly I wish Love was sitting out the Sun Bowl. Get healthy. Give himself the best chance to improve his draft position and succeed at the next level. He’s given enough. Hell he’s essentially played hurt for about the last 18 games.
Bryce Love does not get drafted in the first round, refuses to sign, and goes to medical school.
I have no idea what Bryce Love's financial situation is, but IMO it would be a good idea for him to play a couple of years, get a nice nest egg for medical school, and then enroll.
As far as him sitting out the Sun Bowl, the way Shaw describes him he isn't the type of guy who would want to do that. I think he should play a little bit, with next year's backs getting the lion's share of the work. Given how much we throw the ball currently, it may be somewhat of an inconsequential point.
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - OutsiderFan - 12-12-2018
I really don't want to see a less than 100% Bryce Love play football again. He simply hasn't been the same since his injury in 2017 against Oregon. He can travel with the team and be a part of it, but I would prefer he sit out and let the 2019 guys play most.
In particular, I want to see Justus Woods get some opportunities to show what he can do.
RE: players sitting out of bowl games - JohnR34231 - 12-12-2018
(12-12-2018, 08:43 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I really don't want to see a less than 100% Bryce Love play football again. He simply hasn't been the same since his injury in 2017 against Oregon. He can travel with the team and be a part of it, but I would prefer he sit out and let the 2019 guys play most.
In particular, I want to see Justus Woods get some opportunities to show what he can do.
Well, he sat out 7-8 months from the Alamo Bowl last year until fall practice. If that wasn't enough to get him 100% you begin to wonder what would be.