Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator

Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - Printable Version

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Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - BostonCard - 01-17-2020

Troy Walters is available after mutually parting ways (read: was asked to resign) with Nebraska.

https://www.wowt.com/content/news/OC-Troy-Walters-is-leaving-Nebraska-football-staff-567085191.html

This year, the Huskers averaged 28 ppg and 415 ypg. That was about 6 ppg and almost 50 yards better than our offense.

BC

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - BobK - 01-17-2020

Did Troy have a role in saying no to Burrow ? If so ......

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - BostonCard - 01-17-2020

Per this article:

https://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/12/09/joe-burrow-i-wanted-to-go-to-nebraska-but-they-told-me-i-wasnt-good-enough/

Burrow was turned down by Nebraska before Frost/Walters got to Nebraska, unless they turned him down again when he tried to transfer.

BC

EDIT: Apparently Burrow was also interested in transferring from tOSU after Frost became head coach:

https://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/sipple/steven-m-sipple-joe-burrow-conversation-is-a-headache-scott/article_a5250985-01ac-51c4-8312-c8d7889e4f14.html

No mention of Walters in that article, but presumably he would have had a role.

BC

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - qwerty49 - 01-17-2020

I must confess that upon reading the title of the thread, my first reaction was “not this again!”

The answer to the title question is pretty predictable by now: it depends on who you ask. (Or to keep my buddy CI happy, whom you ask.)

As far as Walters goes, I’ll stand by Ted Leland. We are not Nebraska.

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - OutsiderFan - 01-18-2020

Stanford either does or doesn’t need a new OC, and whatever the answer is has nothing to do with who is or isn’t employed at any given moment.

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - winflop - 01-18-2020

We absolutely should be in the market for a new OC, but Walters isn't a fit. His offensive philosophy is at the other end of the spectrum from Shaw.

We need an OC whose philosophy is more closely aligned to Shaw's - run and play action. I don't know who that should be, but I know it's not Pritchard.

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - OutsiderFan - 01-18-2020

I don’t know if you’ve been paying attention winflop, but the lines between what you perceive as Shaw’s run/play action approach and whatever you believe Walters has run recently, have blurred quite a bit.

Besides, any coordinator can run any style. The key is having talent and getting it to execute at a high level.

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - winflop - 01-18-2020

(01-18-2020, 08:25 AM)OutsiderFan Wrote: Besides, any coordinator can run any style. The key is having talent and getting it to execute at a high level.

Point taken. I'd say doubly so in a program where the head coach runs the offense and the OC seems to be as much of a figurehead position as any on the staff.

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - jonnyss - 01-18-2020

anybody notice that lsu has (or had since he's left for the pros) joe brady as a passing-game coordinator? he was also receivers coach, but he was up in the booth calling down the passing plays.

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - BostonCard - 01-18-2020

(01-18-2020, 10:26 AM)jonnyss Wrote: anybody notice that lsu has (or had since he's left for the pros) joe brady as a passing-game coordinator? he was also receivers coach, but he was up in the booth calling down the passing plays.

He’s now the OC for Carolina, so he will be calling plays fro McCaffrey.

BC

lex24 - lex24 - 01-18-2020

Sigh. This is the board (bored?) equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall. Ain’t gonna happen. So why bother.

But, I’m a sucker. So.... I’d LOVE. Shaw to bring over someone from the Niners to do the Joe Brady thing. But that ain’t gonna happen either.

As for Walters, no way. He’s run offenses that are diametrically opposite of what Stanford does and frankly in my opinion should do. (I still believe that a power running game foundation is the best way for STANFORD to win. Unfortunately, they haven’t been able to run since ‘17. And ‘17 was based on the brilliance of Love. Give me a high functioning offensive line. Please.).

Frost was being hailed after about three weeks of the season as the next coming. Nebraska was on the rise again. Then they collapsed and Walters takes the fall I guess.

RE: lex24 - OutsiderFan - 01-18-2020

(01-18-2020, 01:52 PM)lex24 Wrote: Sigh. This is the board (bored?) equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall. Ain’t gonna happen. So why bother.

But, I’m a sucker. So.... I’d LOVE. Shaw to bring over someone from the Niners to do the Joe Brady thing. But that ain’t gonna happen either.

As for Walters, no way. He’s run offenses that are diametrically opposite of what Stanford does and frankly in my opinion should do. (I still believe that a power running game foundation is the best way for STANFORD to win...

All we need to do is look at the recruiting of smaller All Purpose Backs, more Wide Receivers, and no Fullbacks, to tell you Shaw no longer believes a Power-based run game is the best way for Stanford to win.

RE: lex24 - qwerty49 - 01-18-2020

(01-18-2020, 02:26 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote:
(01-18-2020, 01:52 PM)lex24 Wrote: Sigh. This is the board (bored?) equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall. Ain’t gonna happen. So why bother.

But, I’m a sucker. So.... I’d LOVE. Shaw to bring over someone from the Niners to do the Joe Brady thing. But that ain’t gonna happen either.

As for Walters, no way. He’s run offenses that are diametrically opposite of what Stanford does and frankly in my opinion should do. (I still believe that a power running game foundation is the best way for STANFORD to win...

All we need to do is look at the recruiting of smaller All Purpose Backs, more Wide Receivers, and no Fullbacks, to tell you Shaw no longer believes a Power-based run game is the best way for Stanford to win.

Do you honestly believe we have the luxury of recruiting 4&5 star guys by position and/or body type? That we fit our recruits to our scheme and not vice versa?

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - OutsiderFan - 01-18-2020

I just pointed out facts and the story they tell. I’m not passing any judgment on whether it makes sense or doesn’t.

My basic position is it’s hard to judge the 2019 offense with the number of OL and QB injuries, and I will wait until I see a healthy and experienced OL + QB before concluding a new OC is absolutely needed.

I do believe and have believed for two years that Lance Anderson should be replaced as DC.

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - SamuelMcF - 01-19-2020

(01-18-2020, 07:58 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I just pointed out facts and the story they tell. I’m not passing any judgment on whether it makes sense or doesn’t.

My basic position is it’s hard to judge the 2019 offense with the number of OL and QB injuries, and I will wait until I see a healthy and experienced OL + QB before concluding a new OC is absolutely needed.

I do believe and have believed for two years that Lance Anderson should be replaced as DC.

Shaw stated in his signing day interview that our RB recruiting has changed due to our offensive philosophy shifting. This is confirmed.

Re: Anderson, at first I wasn't sure how much of the defense's woes were due to the Jessies and Joes vs. the X's and O's, but I'm slowly but surely becoming convinced it's more the latter than the former. (And even so, player development is part of a coach's responsibility too, no?) An insider who is really astute with film study and knows the game well commented on just how poorly prepared the team appeared to be late in the season. Guys running wide open in our secondary simply shouldn't be happening with such alarming regularity, especially when you have most of the season's film on the opponent.

The numbers bear out our defense's decline over the past few years, too. But of course injuries decimated the back seven this season, so it's really hard to tell what sort of improvement there would've been had we been able to, for example, actually rotate ILBs.

lex24 - lex24 - 01-19-2020

(01-18-2020, 07:58 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I just pointed out facts and the story they tell. I’m not passing any judgment on whether it makes sense or doesn’t.

My basic position is it’s hard to judge the 2019 offense with the number of OL and QB injuries, and I will wait until I see a healthy and experienced OL + QB before concluding a new OC is absolutely needed.

I do believe and have believed for two years that Lance Anderson should be replaced as DC.

So, what happened the last two years to Anderson? He’s been in charge of the defense since ‘14. I used to read about his terrific ability to adjust at halftime etc. etc. etc. You think possibly he doesn’t quite have the talent he did several years back. And if so might that have a little something to do with his coaching “drop off.“ Same thing with the Akina. I’ve seen people suggest he needs to be shown the door. He’s only one of the most highly respected defensive back coaches in the country. But again doesn’t quite have the talent right now that he has in the past. So that “reflects“ on his coaching.

As for Shaw not recruiting for the power game anymore – if true, I think that’s a big mistake. But the “offensive philosophy changing“ could mean a whole lot of things. You can still go to more of a spread style attack, with RPO‘s etc. while having an emphasis on running the football. I hope at the very least that the shift he is referring to is a long those lines and not in going to more of a pass heavy oriented attack.

(01-19-2020, 01:35 PM)SamuelMcF Wrote:
(01-18-2020, 07:58 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I just pointed out facts and the story they tell. I’m not passing any judgment on whether it makes sense or doesn’t.

My basic position is it’s hard to judge the 2019 offense with the number of OL and QB injuries, and I will wait until I see a healthy and experienced OL + QB before concluding a new OC is absolutely needed.

I do believe and have believed for two years that Lance Anderson should be replaced as DC.

Shaw stated in his signing day interview that our RB recruiting has changed due to our offensive philosophy shifting. This is confirmed.

Re: Anderson, at first I wasn't sure how much of the defense's woes were due to the Jessies and Joes vs. the X's and O's, but I'm slowly but surely becoming convinced it's more the latter than the former. (And even so, player development is part of a coach's responsibility too, no?) An insider who is really astute with film study and knows the game well commented on just how poorly prepared the team appeared to be late in the season. Guys running wide open in our secondary simply shouldn't be happening with such alarming regularity, especially when you have most of the season's film on the opponent.

The numbers bear out our defense's decline over the past few years, too. But of course injuries decimated the back seven this season, so it's really hard to tell what sort of improvement there would've been had we been able to, for example, actually rotate ILBs.

It’s amazing how “poorly prepared” a team looks when it’s playing with a ton of backups. Particularly when they are young. Add to the fact that the defense was not physical and slow and you have a real problem.

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - BobK - 01-19-2020

As for Anderson and Akina great points Lex. That said I hate the three man rush giving the QB all kinds of time against our at best average deep 8

Also our recent DBs have been a mixed bag. Thrilled how well McGill and Kelly played their Frosh seasons though

RE: lex24 - cardcrimson - 01-19-2020

(01-18-2020, 01:52 PM)lex24 Wrote: Sigh. This is the board (bored?) equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall. Ain’t gonna happen. So why bother.

But, I’m a sucker. So.... I’d LOVE. Shaw to bring over someone from the Niners to do the Joe Brady thing. But that ain’t gonna happen either.

As for Walters, no way. He’s run offenses that are diametrically opposite of what Stanford does and frankly in my opinion should do. (I still believe that a power running game foundation is the best way for STANFORD to win. Unfortunately, they haven’t been able to run since ‘17. And ‘17 was based on the brilliance of Love. Give me a high functioning offensive line. Please.).

Frost was being hailed after about three weeks of the season as the next coming. Nebraska was on the rise again. Then they collapsed and Walters takes the fall I guess.

In this day and age, do you think a solid running game will win you a championship?

Oh wait, I guess it still works in the NFL.

lex24 - lex24 - 01-19-2020

(01-19-2020, 08:51 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:
(01-18-2020, 01:52 PM)lex24 Wrote: Sigh. This is the board (bored?) equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall. Ain’t gonna happen. So why bother.

But, I’m a sucker. So.... I’d LOVE. Shaw to bring over someone from the Niners to do the Joe Brady thing. But that ain’t gonna happen either.

As for Walters, no way. He’s run offenses that are diametrically opposite of what Stanford does and frankly in my opinion should do. (I still believe that a power running game foundation is the best way for STANFORD to win. Unfortunately, they haven’t been able to run since ‘17. And ‘17 was based on the brilliance of Love. Give me a high functioning offensive line. Please.).

Frost was being hailed after about three weeks of the season as the next coming. Nebraska was on the rise again. Then they collapsed and Walters takes the fall I guess.

In this day and age, do you think a solid running game will win you a championship?

Oh wait, I guess it still works in the NFL.

8 passes. Amazing.

To respond - no. Not in and of itself. Add an efficient passing game and a good defense, then yes. It won three for Stanford.

I think people wrongly feel that if you have lead with a power running game you employ no creativity, have no decent passing game etc. That simply isn’t the case. Shanahan, of course, is the top example of that right now. They do a lot of different things in that running game. And Garrapolo is generally efficient. He has two main issues - he throws too many int’s and he holds onto the ball too long at times.

Interesting stat on Niners passing game. They have the shortest average length of throw in the league. They also have the highest yards after catch in the league. Which to me means that Garoppolo is very accurate within the short passing game and that Shanahan is very good at creating, finding and exploiting mismatches. It also helps, of course, that Kittle and Samuels are fantastic runners.

RE: Should we be in the market for an offensive coordinator - OutsiderFan - 01-21-2020

I don't buy the notion Garoppolo throws too many INTs. He may throw more than one would ideally like to see, but his record as a starting QB in the NFL is 23-5. This is the highest winning percentage of any QB in NFL history with at least 28 starts, and he's now 2-0 in the playoffs. In games Garoppolo threw more than 1 INT in the 2019 season, the Niners were 2-0. Would you rather have wins, or the most impressive stats?

Still, Garoppolo had the NFL's third highest Yards Per Pass Attempt in 2019. He was #5 in completion percentage and TD passes. He did throw the 8th most INTs in the league, and this hurts his ratings, but so what? The Niners were also #5 in 3rd Down conversions and scored the second most points in the league.

If you took away how Jimmy G plays, refusing to make risky throws, he likely would not be as productive as he is nor win as much as he does. I've seen several examples of Garoppolo playing at an elite level on All-22 coaching videos this season. He diagnoses defenses pre and post-snap, moves defenders with his eyes, fired incredibly accurate passes between defenders that avoid his receivers getting hit hard, throws guys open, and hits them before they turn to look for the ball. I'm not trading his style that might lead to more picks for a more careful Jimmy G that doesn't win as much.

Aaron Rodgers had 4 INTs all year. He had one fewer TD pass than Jimmy G. At the same time, his team was #23 in 3rd Down conversions and scored the 15th most points.