KJ: It just means more... - Printable Version

KJ: It just means more... - Printable Version

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KJ: It just means more... - CardinalSagehen - 09-17-2020

The truth hurts.

Quote:Just like that SEC slogan, in fact.

“They always say it means more. I’ve seen it just from the day-to-day practice. Seven-on-seven, in practice dudes are d*** near going live. Which is awesome to see, battling for roles on the team and fighting for starting spots.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/college/mississippi-state/LongFormArticle/Mississippi-State-Southeastern-Conference-Mike-Leach-KJ-Costello-151560677/Amp/

You can read this as a commentary on the SEC vs. the Pac, but let’s also not forget that Mike Leach is setting the competitive tone currently at Miss St.

Is KJ talking about...
- the conference / region?
- the coach?
- the players and their level of commitment to just one thing, football?

There’s certainly no question that college football matters more in Starkville than in Palo Alto. And there’s no question that Leach is a hard-ass (as was Harbaugh).

It was probably just a passing, pandering comment to the Miss St. press. I doubt KJ meant anything negative by it. But at face value, it’s a bit of a slap in the face to Stanford Football.

What do y’all make of this?

RE: KJ: It just means more... - OutsiderFan - 09-17-2020

I'd say you are projecting your own insecurities about Stanford and the Pac-12 into your assessment. It never would have entered my mind that Costello was taking a shot at Stanford or the Pac-12 from his comments.

I don't buy that SEC players practice harder than players from other conferences I do buy that a team coached by Mike Leach is going to be more intense in practice than one coached by David Shaw.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - Phogge - 09-17-2020

Love the one you're with.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - CardinalSagehen - 09-17-2020

(09-17-2020, 07:24 PM)OutsiderFan Wrote: I'd say you are projecting your own insecurities about Stanford and the Pac-12 into your assessment. It never would have entered my mind that Costello was taking a shot at Stanford or the Pac-12 from his comments.

I don't buy that SEC players practice harder than players from other conferences I do buy that a team coached by Mike Leach is going to be more intense in practice than one coached by David Shaw.

I agree that the coach sets the tone. Wazzu practices were intense under Leach. Stanford practices were intense and arguably inhumane under Harbaugh, too. It is possible for our team to be intense and passionate about college football even if our region is not.

But what do you think KJ meant when he explicitly referenced and validated the SEC’s slogan, “it just means more”, in his response? That is the SEC’s slogan, not Miss State’s and not newly arrived Mike Leach’s. He might have just been kissing up, or he might have chosen his words poorly, but he said it explicitly.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - TinderForMidgets - 09-17-2020

He's probably kissing up. Let's not forget that he's a rich kid from OC fresh off the wealthiest school in the FBS. He wants to fit in.

That being said, are practices under Shaw bad?

lex24 - lex24 - 09-17-2020

I think what he meant is rather obvious. You think football on the West Coast is on the same plane as the South? Arkansas, Miss, Kentucky, South Carolina, Alabama none have pro sports. College football is king in the south. Most California colleges (SC is the one exception perhaps) can’t fill their stadiums more than halfway. And they downsized. Most SEC teams play to pack houses of about 90,000. It is a completely different atmosphere and a completely different intensity level. It does mean more in Mississippi then it doesn’t in Palo Alto. And it’s not even close. So I don’t think it’s really all that questionable what he meant.

As for level of play- there’s also no comparison. Just look at the NFL. I know there’s some bitterness towards the SEC feeling they get too much publicity etc. But they’ve earned it on the football field at least.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - CardinalSagehen - 09-17-2020

(09-17-2020, 08:29 PM)TinderForMidgets Wrote: That being said, are practices under Shaw bad?

I really don’t know. I didn’t mean better or worse, just less intense. And probably more humane.

Shaw would probably say you can be intense and competitive without being brutal like Leach or Harbaugh, and I’d agree with that in principle. But I know very little about actual football practices.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - OutsiderFan - 09-18-2020

Stanford was soft before Harbaugh. Stanford became tough under Harbaugh. Stanford has become soft after Harbaugh.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - Phogge - 09-18-2020

Amen OF. Ohio State had to adjust to Woody Hayes. Hayes would not adjust to anybody. They liked to win so he stayed and offended.

Ralston was a tough player at Cal. He was tough and humane as a coach. Never met Pop but he had to be tough. Harbaugh was the right guy at the right time. But toughness is not in Stanford’s DNA nor should it be. The mission has nothing to do with football and when football success occasionally touches Stanford it is a bonus.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - Papa John - 09-18-2020

I miss Intellectual Brutality.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - teejers1 - 09-18-2020

(09-18-2020, 06:11 AM)Phogge Wrote: Amen OF. Ohio State had to adjust to Woody Hayes. Hayes would not adjust to anybody. They liked to win so he stayed and offended.

Ralston was a tough player at Cal. He was tough and humane as a coach. Never met Pop but he had to be tough. Harbaugh was the right guy at the right time. But toughness is not in Stanford’s DNA nor should it be. The mission has nothing to do with football and when football success occasionally touches Stanford it is a bonus.

Denny Green instilled a sense of toughness on the Cardinal team. It can be done. However, I agree it is not that common (nor is it mandatory, though it certainly helps). The current guy certainly doesn't appear to put a premium on that. That might be okay if there was compensation via, for example, a Walsh-like offense.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - gailtate - 09-19-2020

Harbaugh purged the culture when he arrived, tirelessly recruited the talent he needed and enjoyed the sponsorship of Bob (Football Guy) Bowlsby. Harbaugh, to use a battered cliche, was "transformative". Then the Football Guy unhesitatingly hired the present guy, who drew oohs-and-ahs in Ferrari he inherited. This coach began to believe he could do his own maintenance and repairs. He couldn't. A great era ended. Glad I was around to be at those New Year's Bowl games, bittersweet as a couple of them were. Chances are we won't see them again until another Football Guy arrives to hire another Transformative HC. And so it goes.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - Mick - 09-19-2020

(09-19-2020, 07:29 AM)gailtate Wrote: Harbaugh purged the culture when he arrived, tirelessly recruited the talent he needed and enjoyed the sponsorship of Bob (Football Guy) Bowlsby. Harbaugh, to use a battered cliche, was "transformative". Then the Football Guy unhesitatingly hired the present guy, who drew oohs-and-ahs in Ferrari he inherited. This coach began to believe he could do his own maintenance and repairs. He couldn't. A great era ended. Glad I was around to be at those New Year's Bowl games, bittersweet as a couple of them were. Chances are we won't see them again until another Football Guy arrives to hire another Transformative HC. And so it goes.

I wonder if Harbaugh will ever leave Michigan. Perhaps return to Stanford? He certainly has his fair share of critics at UM. In five seasons, Harbaugh has a 47-18 record and has registered three 10-win seasons. But it’s his record in those high-profile games — 1-9 vs. top 10 teams, 0-4 against Ohio State and 1-3 in bowl games — that may reduce his support. Most people don't understand that, except for Bo's record against Ohio State, Harbaugh's results are not inconsistent with Schembechler and Carr and Moeller. He was better than RichRod and Brady Hoke, and he's been more Top 20 than Top 10. Is that enough for Michigan fans? It was when Carr was coach. Carr had two elite seasons in his 13 seasons, the rest were Harbaugh-like. Carr was 6-7 in bowl games, Moeller was 4-1, RichRod and Hoke were collectively 1-3 in bowl games. Bo was 5-12.

If Michigan figured they had enough of Harbaugh, and Stanford had enough of Shaw...could the match be made once again? Say what you want about Harbaugh, at least he could hire superb people.

So is Harbaugh on the hot seat? This guy doesn't think so:
https://thespun.com/big-ten/michigan-wolverines/jim-harbaugh-on-the-hot-seat-analyst-laughs-at-the-idea

ESPN thinks so:
https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/27692279

CBS thinks Harbaugh's feeling the most pressure of all college football coaches in 2020:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/clay-helton-jim-harbaugh-lead-list-of-college-football-coaches-feeling-pressure-entering-2020/

This guy thinks he's no good.
https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/paul-finebaum-jim-harbaugh-is-no-longer-an-elite-coach/

lex24 - lex24 - 09-19-2020

JH has to win. More than most coaches. Cause he’s a royal pain in the ass. If he’s not winning, why put up with it.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - teejers1 - 09-19-2020

(09-19-2020, 08:53 AM)Mick Wrote:
(09-19-2020, 07:29 AM)gailtate Wrote: Harbaugh purged the culture when he arrived, tirelessly recruited the talent he needed and enjoyed the sponsorship of Bob (Football Guy) Bowlsby. Harbaugh, to use a battered cliche, was "transformative". Then the Football Guy unhesitatingly hired the present guy, who drew oohs-and-ahs in Ferrari he inherited. This coach began to believe he could do his own maintenance and repairs. He couldn't. A great era ended. Glad I was around to be at those New Year's Bowl games, bittersweet as a couple of them were. Chances are we won't see them again until another Football Guy arrives to hire another Transformative HC. And so it goes.

I wonder if Harbaugh will ever leave Michigan. Perhaps return to Stanford? He certainly has his fair share of critics at UM. In five seasons, Harbaugh has a 47-18 record and has registered three 10-win seasons. But it’s his record in those high-profile games — 1-9 vs. top 10 teams, 0-4 against Ohio State and 1-3 in bowl games — that may reduce his support. Most people don't understand that, except for Bo's record against Ohio State, Harbaugh's results are not inconsistent with Schembechler and Carr and Moeller. He was better than RichRod and Brady Hoke, and he's been more Top 20 than Top 10. Is that enough for Michigan fans? It was when Carr was coach. Carr had two elite seasons in his 13 seasons, the rest were Harbaugh-like. Carr was 6-7 in bowl games, Moeller was 4-1, RichRod and Hoke were collectively 1-3 in bowl games. Bo was 5-12.

If Michigan figured they had enough of Harbaugh, and Stanford had enough of Shaw...could the match be made once again? Say what you want about Harbaugh, at least he could hire superb people.

So is Harbaugh on the hot seat? This guy doesn't think so:
https://thespun.com/big-ten/michigan-wolverines/jim-harbaugh-on-the-hot-seat-analyst-laughs-at-the-idea

ESPN thinks so:
https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/27692279

CBS thinks Harbaugh's feeling the most pressure of all college football coaches in 2020:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/clay-helton-jim-harbaugh-lead-list-of-college-football-coaches-feeling-pressure-entering-2020/

This guy thinks he's no good.
https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/paul-finebaum-jim-harbaugh-is-no-longer-an-elite-coach/

No way would Harbaugh stoop to come back to Stanford; and no way Stanford would re-hire him, based on Lex's "pain in the ass' observation, which the institution experienced first-hand.

One thing I'd like to know: who were the Michigan bowl opponents (and their ranking) under Harbaugh versus his Michigan predecessors. My sense is that Harbaugh (and Michigan) were a powerful draw, meaning the highest profile bowl that could select them would. This also usually meant an awfully good opponent, perhaps playing at "home." How many Florida/Southern teams did Harbaugh's Michigan teams play in Florida on or after New Year's Day?

Michigan has done very well under Harbaugh - I don't think anyone could have done better. Harbs had the misfortune of arriving Michigan during "Peak tOSU," and that peak is very, very high. I get Big Blue's frustration, and I'm sure Harbaugh is generating his usual "wear and tear" on AD and fan base, but still, I think they'll put up with him for several more years. At least 2, probably 3. [But I will say that "Harbaugh as magic" is wearing off, if it isn't already completely gone].

RE: KJ: It just means more... - Mick - 09-19-2020

(09-19-2020, 11:23 AM)teejers1 Wrote: One thing I'd like to know: who were the Michigan bowl opponents (and their ranking) under Harbaugh versus his Michigan predecessors. My sense is that Harbaugh (and Michigan) were a powerful draw, meaning the highest profile bowl that could select them would. This also usually meant an awfully good opponent, perhaps playing at "home." How many Florida/Southern teams did Harbaugh's Michigan teams play in Florida on or after New Year's Day?

First bowl was a 41-7 Citrus Bowl win by UMich (10-3) over SEC opponent Florida (10-3) in Orlando. Michigan was a 4 point favorite. As much as that sounds like a Florida home game, there are an astounding number of Michiganders who own second homes in Florida -- or at least spend January and February there.

Second bowl was a 32-33 Orange Bowl loss by UMich (10-2) over ACC's Florida State (9-3). Michigan was favored by 6.5. Game at OB.

Third bowl was a 19-26 Outback Bowl loss by UMich (8-5) to SEC's South Carolina (9-4). Michigan was favored by 9. Game in Tampa.

Fourth bowl was a 15-41 Peach Bowl loss by UMich (10-2) to SEC opponent Florida (9-3). Michigan was favored by 7.5. Played in Atlanta.

Last bowl was 16-35 Citrus Bowl loss by UMich (9-3) to SEC opponent Alabama (10-2). 'Bama was favored by 7.5.

Harbaugh was 1-4 against the spread.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - JustAnotherFan - 09-19-2020

(09-17-2020, 08:29 PM)TinderForMidgets Wrote: He's probably kissing up. Let's not forget that he's a rich kid from OC fresh off the wealthiest school in the FBS. He wants to fit in.

That being said, are practices under Shaw bad?

I cannot say if practices are soft or bad under Shaw, but you know one thing Shaw doesn't worry about in practice is clock management.

(09-19-2020, 07:29 AM)gailtate Wrote: Harbaugh purged the culture when he arrived, tirelessly recruited the talent he needed and enjoyed the sponsorship of Bob (Football Guy) Bowlsby. Harbaugh, to use a battered cliche, was "transformative". Then the Football Guy unhesitatingly hired the present guy, who drew oohs-and-ahs in Ferrari he inherited. This coach began to believe he could do his own maintenance and repairs. He couldn't. A great era ended. Glad I was around to be at those New Year's Bowl games, bittersweet as a couple of them were. Chances are we won't see them again until another Football Guy arrives to hire another Transformative HC. And so it goes.

Let's be honest here, who would have imagined in 2015 that the basketball team would consistently be ranked higher than the football team this coming decade? Because it will be.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - gailtate - 09-19-2020

(09-19-2020, 01:24 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(09-17-2020, 08:29 PM)TinderForMidgets Wrote: He's probably kissing up. Let's not forget that he's a rich kid from OC fresh off the wealthiest school in the FBS. He wants to fit in.

That being said, are practices under Shaw bad?

I cannot say if practices are soft or bad under Shaw, but you know one thing Shaw doesn't worry about in practice is clock management.

(09-19-2020, 07:29 AM)gailtate Wrote: Harbaugh purged the culture when he arrived, tirelessly recruited the talent he needed and enjoyed the sponsorship of Bob (Football Guy) Bowlsby. Harbaugh, to use a battered cliche, was "transformative". Then the Football Guy unhesitatingly hired the present guy, who drew oohs-and-ahs in Ferrari he inherited. This coach began to believe he could do his own maintenance and repairs. He couldn't. A great era ended. Glad I was around to be at those New Year's Bowl games, bittersweet as a couple of them were. Chances are we won't see them again until another Football Guy arrives to hire another Transformative HC. And so it goes.

Let's be honest here, who would have imagined in 2015 that the basketball team would consistently be ranked higher than the football team this coming decade? Because it will be.

It will continue to be in the absence of an AD who wants a return to elite football and hires the HC who can get it done.

lex24 - lex24 - 09-19-2020

(09-19-2020, 01:58 PM)gailtate Wrote:
(09-19-2020, 01:24 PM)JustAnotherFan Wrote:
(09-17-2020, 08:29 PM)TinderForMidgets Wrote: He's probably kissing up. Let's not forget that he's a rich kid from OC fresh off the wealthiest school in the FBS. He wants to fit in.

That being said, are practices under Shaw bad?

I cannot say if practices are soft or bad under Shaw, but you know one thing Shaw doesn't worry about in practice is clock management.

(09-19-2020, 07:29 AM)gailtate Wrote: Harbaugh purged the culture when he arrived, tirelessly recruited the talent he needed and enjoyed the sponsorship of Bob (Football Guy) Bowlsby. Harbaugh, to use a battered cliche, was "transformative". Then the Football Guy unhesitatingly hired the present guy, who drew oohs-and-ahs in Ferrari he inherited. This coach began to believe he could do his own maintenance and repairs. He couldn't. A great era ended. Glad I was around to be at those New Year's Bowl games, bittersweet as a couple of them were. Chances are we won't see them again until another Football Guy arrives to hire another Transformative HC. And so it goes.

Let's be honest here, who would have imagined in 2015 that the basketball team would consistently be ranked higher than the football team this coming decade? Because it will be.

It will continue to be in the absence of an AD who wants a return to elite football and hires the HC who can get it done.

Yep. If there is one thing Shaw has proven - he can’t win.

RE: KJ: It just means more... - BostonCard - 09-19-2020

And if there is one thing Haase has proven is that he can get a team into the top 25.

Haase's recruiting has been phenomenal, especially of late, and that should translate to wins, as soon as this coming season (if there is a season). But he is 68-61 as a Stanford head coach in four years, has had a losing season twice, has had a winning Pac-12 record once, and has never made the NCAA tournament. In three of four years, he has been in the bottom half of the Pac-12, even as the Pac-12 has been on a downswing.

I am as excited as anyone about Williams, Ingram, and all our recruits. I liked what I saw last year. But at some point, all the excitement has to translate into wins and NCAA tournaments, or it won't matter a lick.

BC