OT PSU-Indiana - Printable Version

OT PSU-Indiana - Printable Version

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OT PSU-Indiana - lex24 - 10-24-2020

Franklin is a terrific coach. He probably won’t sleep well tonight. PSU up 1 with about 1:30 to go. On about Indiana 10. They can go victory formation and essentially end the game. Instead they run a play. The guy scores. You can see that he realizes he should just fall - as he tried to stop. But his momentum leads him into EZ. Up 8. Indiana drives and scores with couple seconds left. Makes the 2PT. Tied. PSU scores. Kicks. Indiana answers, goes for 2 and gets it (although it’s may have been a bad call. QB hits pile on with ball, real close.)

Tough loss. To say the least.OTOH, good for the Hoosiers. First win against top 10 team since 1987.

RE: OT PSU-Indiana - Farm93 - 10-24-2020

(10-24-2020, 04:51 PM)lex24 Wrote: Franklin is a terrific coach. He probably won’t sleep well tonight. PSU up 1 with about 1:30 to go. On about Indiana 10. They can go victory formation and essentially end the game. Instead they run a play. The guy scores. You can see that he realizes he should just fall - as he tried to stop. But his momentum leads him into EZ. Up 8. Indiana drives and scores with couple seconds left. Makes the 2PT. Tied. PSU scores. Kicks. Indiana answers, goes for 2 and gets it (although it’s may have been a bad call. QB hits pile on with ball, real close.)

Tough loss. To say the least.OTOH, good for the Hoosiers. First win against top 10 team since 1987.

Tip of the ball was likely across the line before ball touched ground or pylon. It was super close. And the call on the field was key since it was close enough that they had to let the call on the field stand.

FWIW - Indiana was super lucky the k/o after the 2pt to tie the game late in the 4th didn't turn into a winning FG.
With 8 seconds left, Penn State could have done more to get a few more yards.

Penn State played a terrible game, especially on special teams. They deserved to lose. Crazy to think Indiana did not have a win over a top 10 team in more than 30 years. Ouch!

Great news for the Pac-12 though as Penn State was in the running for CFP slot #4 if they managed to go through the season with just a loss to tOSU.

FWIW - At the start of this weekend the talk was which conference would get two teams into CFP - SEC or BigTen. So annoying
That more or less assumes Big12 and Pac-12 will not have a team.
Logical for Big12 given the records of Oklahoma and Texas, but annoying to imply Pac-12 will lose out to 1 or 2 loss teams from other conferences before any Pac-12 team has even played a game.

RE: OT PSU-Indiana - teejers1 - 10-24-2020

(10-24-2020, 04:51 PM)lex24 Wrote: Franklin is a terrific coach. He probably won’t sleep well tonight. PSU up 1 with about 1:30 to go. On about Indiana 10. They can go victory formation and essentially end the game. Instead they run a play. The guy scores. You can see that he realizes he should just fall - as he tried to stop. But his momentum leads him into EZ. Up 8. Indiana drives and scores with couple seconds left. Makes the 2PT. Tied. PSU scores. Kicks. Indiana answers, goes for 2 and gets it (although it’s may have been a bad call. QB hits pile on with ball, real close.)

Tough loss. To say the least.OTOH, good for the Hoosiers. First win against top 10 team since 1987.

Reminiscent of Harbaugh's WORST coaching decision - in game against ND. Tied very late; Stanford knocking on the door; ND with 1 TO left; have to take 1, probably two knees there. Instead, hand off to Toby; Ole defense by ND. They get ball back, down 7, with one TO left. Really awful, awful coaching. Stanford was fortunate that complete brain freeze didn't cost them the game.

lex24 - lex24 - 10-25-2020

(10-24-2020, 08:52 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-24-2020, 04:51 PM)lex24 Wrote: Franklin is a terrific coach. He probably won’t sleep well tonight. PSU up 1 with about 1:30 to go. On about Indiana 10. They can go victory formation and essentially end the game. Instead they run a play. The guy scores. You can see that he realizes he should just fall - as he tried to stop. But his momentum leads him into EZ. Up 8. Indiana drives and scores with couple seconds left. Makes the 2PT. Tied. PSU scores. Kicks. Indiana answers, goes for 2 and gets it (although it’s may have been a bad call. QB hits pile on with ball, real close.)

Tough loss. To say the least.OTOH, good for the Hoosiers. First win against top 10 team since 1987.

Reminiscent of Harbaugh's WORST coaching decision - in game against ND. Tied very late; Stanford knocking on the door; ND with 1 TO left; have to take 1, probably two knees there. Instead, hand off to Toby; Ole defense by ND. They get ball back, down 7, with one TO left. Really awful, awful coaching. Stanford was fortunate that complete brain freeze didn't cost them the game.

Teejers, Harbaugh ‘s worst coaching decision was redshirting Andrew Luck.

RE: OT PSU-Indiana - donkey687 - 10-25-2020

Not so OT, Jovan Swann sighting. He is second string DT in a 4-3 scheme. He played meaningful snaps but did not record a tackle. It seems like a good opportunity for him to get a grad degree and I am happy for him that IU beat PSU but I sure wish we had him back this year. We could use the depth on DL.

While Swann and Williams headed for the hills pretty quickly in grad transferring. It seemed that Ebo and Hattis were more on the fence and Adeebo and Little coming back pushed them on the transferring side of the fence. With Adeebo and Little opting out, there is a good chance that both of them would have been starters at Stanford. Oh well. Nothing we can do at this point, but if we had a full roster of everyone who could have played at Stanford this year and chose not to, I feel that we would have been pretty formidable (Adeebo, Little, Hamilton, Hattis, Ebo, Williams, Swann, Pryts, Head). Those are 9 former starters. Next man up and good opportunity for some younger guys, but I would sure love to have that depth.

RE: OT PSU-Indiana - BobK - 10-25-2020

Keep in mind on Oct 1 we had 83 on scholarship.

RE: OT PSU-Indiana - donkey687 - 10-25-2020

(10-25-2020, 12:07 PM)BobK Wrote: Keep in mind on Oct 1 we had 83 on scholarship.

Yes, but that 83 includes 3 players on that list of 9 and four less accomplished (zero starts) 5th year seniors who were invited back because the more accomplished players left the program plus a grad transfer QB who was given a scholarship late. Thus, I think we had room for all 9 of those former starters who chose not to play for Stanford this year.

RE: OT PSU-Indiana - Giants - 10-25-2020

(10-24-2020, 08:52 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-24-2020, 04:51 PM)lex24 Wrote: Franklin is a terrific coach. He probably won’t sleep well tonight. PSU up 1 with about 1:30 to go. On about Indiana 10. They can go victory formation and essentially end the game. Instead they run a play. The guy scores. You can see that he realizes he should just fall - as he tried to stop. But his momentum leads him into EZ. Up 8. Indiana drives and scores with couple seconds left. Makes the 2PT. Tied. PSU scores. Kicks. Indiana answers, goes for 2 and gets it (although it’s may have been a bad call. QB hits pile on with ball, real close.)

Tough loss. To say the least.OTOH, good for the Hoosiers. First win against top 10 team since 1987.

Reminiscent of Harbaugh's WORST coaching decision - in game against ND. Tied very late; Stanford knocking on the door; ND with 1 TO left; have to take 1, probably two knees there. Instead, hand off to Toby; Ole defense by ND. They get ball back, down 7, with one TO left. Really awful, awful coaching. Stanford was fortunate that complete brain freeze didn't cost them the game.

Actually, Harbaugh’s worst decision came in a loss - the ‘09 Big Game - when he gave the game away by calling for a pass deep in Cal territory (it was intercepted) instead of riding Gerhart into the end zone (Cal had demonstrated throughout the game they had no answer for Toby)....

RE: OT PSU-Indiana - teejers1 - 10-25-2020

(10-25-2020, 05:16 PM)Giants Wrote:
(10-24-2020, 08:52 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-24-2020, 04:51 PM)lex24 Wrote: Franklin is a terrific coach. He probably won’t sleep well tonight. PSU up 1 with about 1:30 to go. On about Indiana 10. They can go victory formation and essentially end the game. Instead they run a play. The guy scores. You can see that he realizes he should just fall - as he tried to stop. But his momentum leads him into EZ. Up 8. Indiana drives and scores with couple seconds left. Makes the 2PT. Tied. PSU scores. Kicks. Indiana answers, goes for 2 and gets it (although it’s may have been a bad call. QB hits pile on with ball, real close.)

Tough loss. To say the least.OTOH, good for the Hoosiers. First win against top 10 team since 1987.

Reminiscent of Harbaugh's WORST coaching decision - in game against ND. Tied very late; Stanford knocking on the door; ND with 1 TO left; have to take 1, probably two knees there. Instead, hand off to Toby; Ole defense by ND. They get ball back, down 7, with one TO left. Really awful, awful coaching. Stanford was fortunate that complete brain freeze didn't cost them the game.

Actually, Harbaugh’s worst decision came in a loss - the ‘09 Big Game - when he gave the game away by calling for a pass deep in Cal territory (it was intercepted) instead of riding Gerhart into the end zone (Cal had demonstrated throughout the game they had no answer for Toby)....

There was no guarantee Stanford would have won the game against Cal if he had decided not to throw the ball on that down. In contrast, the Notre Dame game was "won" very late in regulation. Hell, you could take 3 knees, burn a timeout, and line up for a chippie FG as time expires. So, Harbaugh's decision to run the ball very much put a W in peril (ND had 2 shots to throw into the end zone late - plus, they had been abusing our secondary all game long). Thus, that decision was worse than the Big Game decision.

BTW, I agree that the pass play to the end zone was a bad call there, but primarily because even if it succeeds, Cal still has time to get into game winning FG range. Toby was on the sideline on that play, iirc, as he had just made an incredible catch and run to get Stanford into "go ahead TD" scoring territory. I would have run something safer to allow Toby to get his rest, and then trot him back out there and ride him into the end zone.

Lex, as far as redshirting, at some point that season (4 or 5 games?), Luck wanted to RS and keep his eligibility (or at least that's what I heard). So, I don't put that choice all on Harbaugh. Having Tavita start the season was defensible; but yes, I would have burned Luck's shirt. He was known as The Truth from the first day of practice, wasn't he?

RE: OT PSU-Indiana - Goose - 10-25-2020

(10-25-2020, 05:50 PM)teejers1 Wrote: Lex, as far as redshirting, at some point that season (4 or 5 games?), Luck wanted to RS and keep his eligibility (or at least that's what I heard). So, I don't put that choice all on Harbaugh. Having Tavita start the season was defensible; but yes, I would have burned Luck's shirt. He was known as The Truth from the first day of practice, wasn't he?

Luck wasn't stupid. The team that year wasn't good and couldn't pass protect. Tavita got hit early and often. Why burn a shirt on a year that is going nowhere?

RE: OT PSU-Indiana - BostonCard - 10-25-2020

(10-25-2020, 05:50 PM)teejers1 Wrote: There was no guarantee Stanford would have won the game against Cal if he had decided not to throw the ball on that down. In contrast, the Notre Dame game was "won" very late in regulation. Hell, you could take 3 knees, burn a timeout, and line up for a chippie FG as time expires. So, Harbaugh's decision to run the ball very much put a W in peril (ND had 2 shots to throw into the end zone late - plus, they had been abusing our secondary all game long). Thus, that decision was worse than the Big Game decision.

BTW, I agree that the pass play to the end zone was a bad call there, but primarily because even if it succeeds, Cal still has time to get into game winning FG range. Toby was on the sideline on that play, iirc, as he had just made an incredible catch and run to get Stanford into "go ahead TD" scoring territory. I would have run something safer to allow Toby to get his rest, and then trot him back out there and ride him into the end zone.

Lex, as far as redshirting, at some point that season (4 or 5 games?), Luck wanted to RS and keep his eligibility (or at least that's what I heard). So, I don't put that choice all on Harbaugh. Having Tavita start the season was defensible; but yes, I would have burned Luck's shirt. He was known as The Truth from the first day of practice, wasn't he?

The math is not that complicated... you have to balance the possibility of somehow failing to score (a bad snap on your chippie field goal, your RB fumbling it through the end zone, the defense mounting a stand on third and goal, etc.) versus the probability that the other team marches down the field and scores. So I think you are right in terms of percentages. The percentage of extra points converted in college is 97%, which is a good proxy for a chip shot field goal, while there is about a ~15% chance of scoring a touchdown when starting on your own 25 (raised a little bit by the fact that ND would have had four downs, but a bit lower because of the amount of time left). Still, it is really hard to "leave points on the board" as they say, and I think the criticism Harbaugh would have come under had he instructed his players to take a knee short of the goal line to chew up clock, and then watched something go wrong is why most coaches in that position take the touchdown.

I still agree with Giants that the 09 Big Game was probably a worse call (or, at least a call that made more of a difference). Harbaugh was holding a strong hand and would likely have won the game against ND regardless; the playcalling against Cal was a much more high-leverage situation. Stanford was down 6 points and had first and 10 with about 1:42 left at the Cal 13. That's slightly better than a 50/50 probability of scoring a touchdown (a bit higher because you have four downs to do it). Plus, you kind of want to burn a little clock so that if you score, Cal doesn't have a chance to come back and kick a winning field goal (you know, the same scenario as the ND game). Toby Gerhart was averaging 6.8 ypc that game; Andrew Luck was 10/28 (he then threw an incomplete and an interception) it should have been a no brainer to run Gerhart on first and second downs.

BC

lex24 - lex24 - 10-25-2020

(10-25-2020, 05:50 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-25-2020, 05:16 PM)Giants Wrote:
(10-24-2020, 08:52 PM)teejers1 Wrote:
(10-24-2020, 04:51 PM)lex24 Wrote: Franklin is a terrific coach. He probably won’t sleep well tonight. PSU up 1 with about 1:30 to go. On about Indiana 10. They can go victory formation and essentially end the game. Instead they run a play. The guy scores. You can see that he realizes he should just fall - as he tried to stop. But his momentum leads him into EZ. Up 8. Indiana drives and scores with couple seconds left. Makes the 2PT. Tied. PSU scores. Kicks. Indiana answers, goes for 2 and gets it (although it’s may have been a bad call. QB hits pile on with ball, real close.)

Tough loss. To say the least.OTOH, good for the Hoosiers. First win against top 10 team since 1987.

Reminiscent of Harbaugh's WORST coaching decision - in game against ND. Tied very late; Stanford knocking on the door; ND with 1 TO left; have to take 1, probably two knees there. Instead, hand off to Toby; Ole defense by ND. They get ball back, down 7, with one TO left. Really awful, awful coaching. Stanford was fortunate that complete brain freeze didn't cost them the game.

Actually, Harbaugh’s worst decision came in a loss - the ‘09 Big Game - when he gave the game away by calling for a pass deep in Cal territory (it was intercepted) instead of riding Gerhart into the end zone (Cal had demonstrated throughout the game they had no answer for Toby)....

There was no guarantee Stanford would have won the game against Cal if he had decided not to throw the ball on that down. In contrast, the Notre Dame game was "won" very late in regulation. Hell, you could take 3 knees, burn a timeout, and line up for a chippie FG as time expires. So, Harbaugh's decision to run the ball very much put a W in peril (ND had 2 shots to throw into the end zone late - plus, they had been abusing our secondary all game long). Thus, that decision was worse than the Big Game decision.

BTW, I agree that the pass play to the end zone was a bad call there, but primarily because even if it succeeds, Cal still has time to get into game winning FG range. Toby was on the sideline on that play, iirc, as he had just made an incredible catch and run to get Stanford into "go ahead TD" scoring territory. I would have run something safer to allow Toby to get his rest, and then trot him back out there and ride him into the end zone.

Lex, as far as redshirting, at some point that season (4 or 5 games?), Luck wanted to RS and keep his eligibility (or at least that's what I heard). So, I don't put that choice all on Harbaugh. Having Tavita start the season was defensible; but yes, I would have burned Luck's shirt. He was known as The Truth from the first day of practice, wasn't he?

Did you ever think Luck would stay for a 5th year? C’mon. At the least, Harbaugh should have done with Luck what Dohower did with Elway. Split time etc. Except Schonert was very good. Tavita, not so much.

BTW - Luck was up and throwing - getting ready in the SJS game in ‘08. Tavita put a drive together. Luck sat down. That was that.

RE: OT PSU-Indiana - Mick - 10-25-2020

(10-24-2020, 05:35 PM)Farm93 Wrote: Tough loss. To say the least.OTOH, good for the Hoosiers. First win against top 10 team since 1987.

If memory serves, Indiana had been to just one Rose Bowl in the old Pac vs. Big format (1967 loss vs. USC), despite having played football since 1887.