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50 Years Ago This Week - cardcrimson - 12-10-2020

Jim Plunkett won the H e i s man. Congrats!

Dave Flemming was on KNBR this afternoon mentioning the anniversary and said he'd been waiting for anything from the athletic department to commemorate the only player to win it at Stanford. His comment: "I guess they're too busy cutting sports to acknowledge it" Ouch!

He went on to say that Plunkett has to be on the list of the greatest college quarterbacks of all time. People just don't remember how good he was. . . .

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - Mick - 12-10-2020

Former Cal linebacker Ron Rivera wants Jim Plunkett in the Hall of Fame:

https://247sports.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/Article/Jim-Plunkett-deserves-Hall-of-Fame-per-Ron-Rivera-129511086/

I played basketball against Ron in high school (he went to Seaside HS in Monterey County).  We had a guy on our team who had a cup of coffee with the Rams as an OT.  Every shot that went up, those two giant athletes hammered each other for the rebound while eight other guys tried to look like they weren't backing away...

lex24 - lex24 - 12-10-2020

(12-10-2020, 05:46 PM)cardcrimson Wrote:  Jim Plunkett won the H e i s man. Congrats!

Dave Flemming was on KNBR this afternoon mentioning the anniversary and said he'd been wait for anything from the athletic department to commemorate the only player to win it at Stanford. His comment: "I guess they're too busy cutting sports to acknowledge it" Ouch!

He went on to say that Plunkett has to be on the list of the greatest college quarterbacks of all time. People just don't remember how good he was. . . .

I do.  He had a cannon.  Could move ( not pretty, but effective). Accurate.  Tough. Smart He won a Voldemort, was the No 1 pick.  ROY.  And SB MVP.  Not sure any other player has done that.  
He had his best years when his physical skills had deteriorated.  Lost his fastball to Chuck ***** Fairbanks.  Got by on guts and moxie.

“Plunkett Keeps His Promise”.

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - Phogge - 12-11-2020

Each time we set up for an interview with Al Davis I always said to Mr. Davis that I thought Stabler and Plunkett should be in Canton. He was especially vocal about Plunk. Mister Davis could be ornery but immediately we were on his side and he was always gracious to us. A most misunderstood man, sad to see him with a cane, then a walker and finally a wheelchair.

Don Meredith called Plunk the best college QB ever. A man among boys. An incredibly nice guy while allowing a crew to take over his home with instruments and cables galore. If he came out in ‘69 he would have played for a different coach somewhere and who knows how good he would have been.

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - gailtate - 12-11-2020

(12-11-2020, 09:36 AM)Phogge Wrote:  Each time we set up for an interview with Al Davis I always said to Mr. Davis that I thought Stabler and Plunkett should be in Canton. He was especially vocal about Plunk. Mister Davis could be ornery but immediately we were on his side and he was always gracious to us. A most misunderstood man, sad to see him with a cane, then a walker and finally a wheelchair.

Don Meredith called Plunk the best college QB ever. A man among boys. An incredibly nice guy while allowing a crew to take over his home with instruments and cables galore. If he came out in ‘69 he would have played for a different coach somewhere and who knows how good he would have been.

He would have been drafted by the Eagles, who didn't hire Dick Vermiel until 1976. Until then, it was Jerry Williams, Ed Khayat and Mike McCormack.
Still, an improvement over Fairbanks.

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - CowboyIndian - 12-11-2020

Also....New Year's Day will be 50 years since the unlikely upset of Woody Hayes and Ohio State in the Rose Bowl by the Thunder Chicken Indians. Haven't heard any mention of that, either. Unfortunately, there won't be a West Coast team in Pasadena this year. Can't stand the CFP.

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - Spiny_Norman - 12-11-2020

(12-11-2020, 10:35 AM)gailtate Wrote:  
(12-11-2020, 09:36 AM)Phogge Wrote:  Each time we set up for an interview with Al Davis I always said to Mr. Davis that I thought Stabler and Plunkett should be in Canton. He was especially vocal about Plunk. Mister Davis could be ornery but immediately we were on his side and he was always gracious to us. A most misunderstood man, sad to see him with a cane, then a walker and finally a wheelchair.

Don Meredith called Plunk the best college QB ever. A man among boys. An incredibly nice guy while allowing a crew to take over his home with instruments and cables galore. If he came out in ‘69 he would have played for a different coach somewhere and who knows how good he would have been.

He would have been drafted by the Eagles, who didn't hire Dick Vermiel until 1976. Until then, it was Jerry Williams, Ed Khayat and Mike McCormack.
Still, an improvement over Fairbanks.

The Steelers had the top pick in the 1970 draft. Can you imagine if they had chosen Plunkett #1 rather than Terry Bradshaw?

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - Mick - 12-11-2020

(12-11-2020, 12:40 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:  The Steelers had the top pick in the 1970 draft. Can you imagine if they had chosen Plunkett #1 rather than Terry Bradshaw?

On the other end of Bradshaw's career, Noll claims that Bradshaw told him he was good to go for the 1983 season, never felt better, etc.  Noll felt he could hold off drafting a QB for another year.  Noll didn't know about Bradshaw's elbow problems and passed up the chance to select local favorite Dan Marino of Pitt, who went to Miami who had the 27th pick in the first round.  The Steelers ended up taking Gabe Rivera, a/k/a Senor Sack from Texas Tech with the 21st selection instead.  After Rivera's sixth game in his rookie year, he was paralyzed when he tried to drive home drunk.  Tragic.

The Steelers ended up drafting a series of mediocre quarterbacks (Neil O'Donnell, Cliff Stoudt, Bubby Brister, Scott Campbell, Mark Malone, etc.), and didn't really "replace" Bradshaw until Kordell Stewart (1995), then Ben Roethlisberger (2004).

The Steelers did, however, draft several QBs who became Hall of Famers -- with other teams, including Len Dawson and Johnny Unitas. Also Jim Finks (drafted as QB, but made HoF as an admin) and Ted Marchibroda who found his calling as a coach.

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - Phogge - 12-11-2020

They also got Buddy Parker to coach after he had won a few titles with the Lions. Buddy brought along Bobby Layne who was a great player and even better drinker.

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - teejers1 - 12-11-2020

(12-11-2020, 05:43 PM)Mick Wrote:  
(12-11-2020, 12:40 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:  The Steelers had the top pick in the 1970 draft. Can you imagine if they had chosen Plunkett #1 rather than Terry Bradshaw?

On the other end of Bradshaw's career, Noll claims that Bradshaw told him he was good to go for the 1983 season, never felt better, etc.  Noll felt he could hold off drafting a QB for another year.  Noll didn't know about Bradshaw's elbow problems and passed up the chance to select local favorite Dan Marino of Pitt, who went to Miami who had the 27th pick in the first round.  The Steelers ended up taking Gabe Rivera, a/k/a Senor Sack from Texas Tech with the 21st selection instead.  After Rivera's sixth game in his rookie year, he was paralyzed when he tried to drive home drunk.  Tragic.

The Steelers ended up drafting a series of mediocre quarterbacks (Neil O'Donnell, Cliff Stoudt, Bubby Brister, Scott Campbell, Mark Malone, etc.), and didn't really "replace" Bradshaw until Kordell Stewart (1995), then Ben Roethlisberger (2004).

The Steelers did, however, draft several QBs who became Hall of Famers -- with other teams, including Len Dawson and Johnny Unitas.  Also Jim Finks (drafted as QB, but made HoF as an admin) and Ted Marchibroda who found his calling as a coach.

Marino's draft stock plummeted due to rumors of drug use, IIRC.  No idea if the rumors had any merit; regardless, Miami definitely benefited from Marino's draft fall.

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - cardcrimson - 12-11-2020

(12-11-2020, 09:19 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  
(12-11-2020, 05:43 PM)Mick Wrote:  
(12-11-2020, 12:40 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:  The Steelers had the top pick in the 1970 draft. Can you imagine if they had chosen Plunkett #1 rather than Terry Bradshaw?

On the other end of Bradshaw's career, Noll claims that Bradshaw told him he was good to go for the 1983 season, never felt better, etc.  Noll felt he could hold off drafting a QB for another year.  Noll didn't know about Bradshaw's elbow problems and passed up the chance to select local favorite Dan Marino of Pitt, who went to Miami who had the 27th pick in the first round.  The Steelers ended up taking Gabe Rivera, a/k/a Senor Sack from Texas Tech with the 21st selection instead.  After Rivera's sixth game in his rookie year, he was paralyzed when he tried to drive home drunk.  Tragic.

The Steelers ended up drafting a series of mediocre quarterbacks (Neil O'Donnell, Cliff Stoudt, Bubby Brister, Scott Campbell, Mark Malone, etc.), and didn't really "replace" Bradshaw until Kordell Stewart (1995), then Ben Roethlisberger (2004).

The Steelers did, however, draft several QBs who became Hall of Famers -- with other teams, including Len Dawson and Johnny Unitas.  Also Jim Finks (drafted as QB, but made HoF as an admin) and Ted Marchibroda who found his calling as a coach.

Marino's draft stock plummeted due to rumors of drug use, IIRC.  No idea if the rumors had any merit; regardless, Miami definitely benefited from Marino's draft fall.

Absolutely. Just look at the championships they won. . . .

lex24 - lex24 - 12-12-2020

(12-11-2020, 09:19 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  
(12-11-2020, 05:43 PM)Mick Wrote:  
(12-11-2020, 12:40 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:  The Steelers had the top pick in the 1970 draft. Can you imagine if they had chosen Plunkett #1 rather than Terry Bradshaw?

On the other end of Bradshaw's career, Noll claims that Bradshaw told him he was good to go for the 1983 season, never felt better, etc.  Noll felt he could hold off drafting a QB for another year.  Noll didn't know about Bradshaw's elbow problems and passed up the chance to select local favorite Dan Marino of Pitt, who went to Miami who had the 27th pick in the first round.  The Steelers ended up taking Gabe Rivera, a/k/a Senor Sack from Texas Tech with the 21st selection instead.  After Rivera's sixth game in his rookie year, he was paralyzed when he tried to drive home drunk.  Tragic.

The Steelers ended up drafting a series of mediocre quarterbacks (Neil O'Donnell, Cliff Stoudt, Bubby Brister, Scott Campbell, Mark Malone, etc.), and didn't really "replace" Bradshaw until Kordell Stewart (1995), then Ben Roethlisberger (2004).

The Steelers did, however, draft several QBs who became Hall of Famers -- with other teams, including Len Dawson and Johnny Unitas.  Also Jim Finks (drafted as QB, but made HoF as an admin) and Ted Marchibroda who found his calling as a coach.

Marino's draft stock plummeted due to rumors of drug use, IIRC.  No idea if the rumors had any merit; regardless, Miami definitely benefited from Marino's draft fall.

ESPN has a great 30-30 focusing on Elway Marino and Marvin Demhoff for the ‘82 draft.  Demhoff kept a diary and represented both.  The Elway Baltimore draft/trade drama is probably the main focus.  Fascinating stuff.  Marino definitely dropped due to rumors.  Allegedly the Pitt team had a big party reputation.  And ‘82 was during the coke explosion.  The conclusion is that Marino was not a user. In the end, it benefited Marino.  Got to play on a team that was very good from the get go.  With Shula. Just like Rodgers dropping to the Packers was a benefit.  Who knows what he would have done had the Niners drafted him. And he got the snot beat out of him with those awful teams.

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - Mick - 12-12-2020

(12-11-2020, 09:19 PM)teejers1 Wrote:  
(12-11-2020, 05:43 PM)Mick Wrote:  
(12-11-2020, 12:40 PM)Spiny_Norman Wrote:  The Steelers had the top pick in the 1970 draft. Can you imagine if they had chosen Plunkett #1 rather than Terry Bradshaw?

On the other end of Bradshaw's career, Noll claims that Bradshaw told him he was good to go for the 1983 season, never felt better, etc.  Noll felt he could hold off drafting a QB for another year.  Noll didn't know about Bradshaw's elbow problems and passed up the chance to select local favorite Dan Marino of Pitt, who went to Miami who had the 27th pick in the first round.  The Steelers ended up taking Gabe Rivera, a/k/a Senor Sack from Texas Tech with the 21st selection instead.  After Rivera's sixth game in his rookie year, he was paralyzed when he tried to drive home drunk.  Tragic.

The Steelers ended up drafting a series of mediocre quarterbacks (Neil O'Donnell, Cliff Stoudt, Bubby Brister, Scott Campbell, Mark Malone, etc.), and didn't really "replace" Bradshaw until Kordell Stewart (1995), then Ben Roethlisberger (2004).

The Steelers did, however, draft several QBs who became Hall of Famers -- with other teams, including Len Dawson and Johnny Unitas.  Also Jim Finks (drafted as QB, but made HoF as an admin) and Ted Marchibroda who found his calling as a coach.

Marino's draft stock plummeted due to rumors of drug use, IIRC.  No idea if the rumors had any merit; regardless, Miami definitely benefited from Marino's draft fall.

Maybe Miami started the rumors...

lex24 - lex24 - 12-12-2020

(12-11-2020, 11:12 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  Also....New Year's Day will be 50 years since the unlikely upset of Woody Hayes and Ohio State in the Rose Bowl by the Thunder Chicken Indians. Haven't heard any mention of that, either. Unfortunately, there won't be a West Coast team in Pasadena this year. Can't stand the CFP.

I think if they played 10 times, Stanford beats them 7 times.   You are right, it was an upset. But the better team won that game. That Stanford team was as good as anybody in the nation.

 I still remember Jack Tatum on his hands and knees slamming his fist in the end zone. Beautiful memory .

RE: lex24 - CornFed - 12-12-2020

(12-12-2020, 01:15 PM)lex24 Wrote:  
(12-11-2020, 11:12 AM)CowboyIndian Wrote:  Also....New Year's Day will be 50 years since the unlikely upset of Woody Hayes and Ohio State in the Rose Bowl by the Thunder Chicken Indians. Haven't heard any mention of that, either. Unfortunately, there won't be a West Coast team in Pasadena this year. Can't stand the CFP.

I think if they played 10 times, Stanford beats them 7 times.   You are right, it was an upset. But the better team won that game. That Stanford team was as good as anybody in the nation.

 I still remember Jack Tatum on his hands and knees slamming his fist in the end zone. Beautiful memory .

I could write a book about this game.  It was the highlight of my life to that point.  I told my father back in Iowa that there was no way Stanford would lose to a "ground and pound" team like THE OSU.  Many, many people had NO IDEA what or where Stanford was, much less whether or not they could avoid physical annihilation by the legendary Buckeyes, who were said to be the best football team in college football history.  Dad (who was not prone to entering risky wagers) made a stunning expression of belief in his son's insight by making substantial bets with legions of ignorant Midwesterners, sometimes getting 40 and more points.  I think he made enough to offset the costs of more than a year of my college costs.

RE: lex24 - baymeadows3408 - 12-12-2020

(12-12-2020, 01:15 PM)lex24 Wrote:  I think if they played 10 times, Stanford beats them 7 times.   You are right, it was an upset. But the better team won that game. That Stanford team was as good as anybody in the nation.

 I still remember Jack Tatum on his hands and knees slamming his fist in the end zone. Beautiful memory .

I have a question for the historians on this board. How did the same Stanford team that beat Ohio State 27-17 lose to Cal 22-14? I know that Stanford has long had the ability to beat just about anybody and lose to just about anybody, but I have always been perplexed at how a Stanford team led by Jim Plunkett lost to Cal, scoring only 14 points in the process.

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - Maple Leaf - 12-12-2020

Cal won because they controlled the line of scrimmage.   They were led by Sherman White who became a star DE in the NFL.

RE: lex24 - JohnR34231 - 12-13-2020

(12-12-2020, 05:06 PM)baymeadows3408 Wrote:  
(12-12-2020, 01:15 PM)lex24 Wrote:  I think if they played 10 times, Stanford beats them 7 times.   You are right, it was an upset. But the better team won that game. That Stanford team was as good as anybody in the nation.

 I still remember Jack Tatum on his hands and knees slamming his fist in the end zone. Beautiful memory .

I have a question for the historians on this board. How did the same Stanford team that beat Ohio State 27-17 lose to Cal 22-14? I know that Stanford has long had the ability to beat just about anybody and lose to just about anybody, but I have always been perplexed at how a Stanford team led by Jim Plunkett lost to Cal, scoring only 14 points in the process.

I think after they beat Washington and clinched the Rose Bowl bid they had a major psychological letdown. They had lost to Air Force 31-14 the prior week (which still gets talked about as one of the greatest wins in AF football history).
You could ask the next year how a team that beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl could lose at home to a Duke team that was starting a walk on QB.

RE: 50 Years Ago This Week - Phogge - 12-13-2020

I think John is correct. The season’s high point was the revenge win over SC. They lost to a Mike Phipps-less Purdue team at home the week before because they were so pumped for the next week. Cal was fired up and had another phenomenal game from Dave Penhall. In ‘71 Stanford completely controlled the LOS against Duke and had a huuuge yardage margin, went to sleep against Wazzu and were beaten 13-12 by a one man wrecking crew from San Jose and a kicker having one of the worst games in Indian history. I still think the best Plunkett team was in 1969 losing heartbreakers to SC and Purdue and tying UCLA.