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Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - Papa John - 03-12-2021

I just stumbled across a pre-conference tournament interview where Jerod Haase said that his team would welcome an NIT bid if an NCAA bid were not forthcoming (spoiler alert: an NCAA bid is not forthcoming).

Immediately following the Cal debacle, I felt strongly that it was time to shut down the season and turn down an NIT bid. There's really no point to try to recover whatever cohesion the team had. In fact, I'm not sure if the players feel the same as Coach Haase about the NIT. On the other hand, there's more reward than risk. If Stanford can put behind whatever is ailing it and make a run, that would at least partially dilute the poison of the last month. If Stanford gets bounced in the first round, we're no worse off.

I suppose there's some question re: whether or not Stanford would even receive an NIT bid. But teams are starting to pull out of conference tournaments and are/might not be eligible for post-season play (e.g. Duke, Virginia) so spots are becoming available to the next in line.

Thoughts?

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - winflop - 03-12-2021

I'm not even sure if a bid will be forthcoming after the last four weeks.

Fire Haase and say no to the Not Important Tournament.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - PVTree - 03-12-2021

I would have the student-athletes on the team vote on whether or not they want to participate in the NIT. It makes no sense to accept a bid only to have some/most of the team not show up and embarrass themselves again.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - Papa John - 03-12-2021

(03-12-2021, 12:02 PM)winflop Wrote:  I'm not even sure if a bid will be forthcoming after the last four weeks.

Yeah, that's worth mentioning. Instead of 32 teams the NIT will only have 16, all bubbled in the DFW area. Normally, bids are guaranteed for regular season league champs who lose in their conference tournaments, but that's being dispensed with this year.

The current NET rankings in the Pac-12:
1. Colorado at #12 national ranking
2. USC at #14
3. Oregon at #32
4. Arizona at #46
5. UCLA at #47
6. Stanford at #78
7. Utah at #87
8. Oregon State at #101
9. Washington State at #105
10. Arizona State at #117

According to ESPN, Colorado, USC and Oregon are locks for the NCAA tournament, and UCLA is safely in as well. Arizona's season is over.

Assuming the NIT takes at least one team from the Pac-12, they would choose between Stanford, Utah, OSU, WSU and ASU. OSU and Stanford tied for 6th in conference and were 1-1 head-to-head. If you go strictly by NET, you take Stanford. A more nuanced consideration: Utah split against Stanford but has a losing record overall and in conference. OSU split against Stanford and has a winning record overall but a NET>100. WSU split against Stanford and has a winning record overall but losing record in conference. ASU beat Stanford but has a losing record overall and in conference.

Only 84 teams out of 347 will be invited to postseason play. Based on NET rankings, season results and teams dropping out, I think Stanford would be the most likely from the Pac-12 to get an NIT bid, given that the NET of ESPN's teams first eight out range from 45 to 68. I'm also assuming that OSU loses to Oregon today, which may or may not come true. Finally, I have no idea what other criteria the selection committee will use or if they will even feel obligated to take a team from the Pac-12.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - BostonCard - 03-12-2021

There's also the fact that we have laid several eggs over the last few weeks of the season.  If you were the NIT, would you want that?

BC

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - Papa John - 03-12-2021

(03-12-2021, 02:27 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  There's also the fact that we have laid several eggs over the last few weeks of the season.  If you were the NIT, would you want that?

BC

I can't find the selection criteria for 2021, so your guess is as good as mine. All I know is that the elimination of automatic qualifiers will open up some spots, as will teams like Duke, Virginia, Kansas, etc., who have had positive Covid tests and may/will not be available for any postseason tournaments.

We'll see how it shakes out, but I think the NIT might be begging for teams with winning records from so-called power and mid-major conferences.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - gailtate - 03-12-2021

(03-12-2021, 02:43 PM)Papa John Wrote:  
(03-12-2021, 02:27 PM)BostonCard Wrote:  There's also the fact that we have laid several eggs over the last few weeks of the season.  If you were the NIT, would you want that?

BC

I can't find the selection criteria for 2021, so your guess is as good as mine. All I know is that the elimination of automatic qualifiers will open up some spots, as will teams like Duke, Virginia, Kansas, etc., who have had positive Covid tests and may/will not be available for any postseason tournaments.

We'll see how it shakes out, but I think the NIT might be begging for teams with winning records from so-called power and mid-major conferences.

The Stanford team I saw quit against the weenies did not impress me as a group eager to play another game this month. Or this year, for matter. Disgraceful doesn't begin to describe it.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - fullmetal - 03-12-2021

Sure, the players should have a say.  But additional practices and additional experience is always a good thing for depth.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - winflop - 03-12-2021

(03-12-2021, 06:25 PM)fullmetal Wrote:  Sure, the players should have a say.  But additional practices and additional experience is always a good thing for depth.

But if the coach has lost the locker room it would have the exact opposite effect.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - PVTree - 03-12-2021

(03-12-2021, 07:53 PM)winflop Wrote:  
(03-12-2021, 06:25 PM)fullmetal Wrote:  Sure, the players should have a say.  But additional practices and additional experience is always a good thing for depth.
But if the coach has lost the locker room it would have the exact opposite effect.

Exactly! If a division between some players and the coaches exists, it may be in our best interest to not play another game this year.

The coaches, of course, will want to have more time to practice and develop players by participating in the NIT. However, if some players just go through the motions, and we end up with very poor results, look bad doing them, and have every announcer and commentator report about the evident lack of chemistry and perceived tension, it will harm the program and hurt recruiting.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - Papa John - 03-13-2021

If Oregon State loses to Colorado, I would think that they would get an NIT bid over Stanford. Their NET ranking is only 97, but I don't think that would be as big a factor as the Beavers' late season run and four Quad 1 wins, which equals Stanford's total. Also, Colgate (!) has a NET ranking of 8, so NET can't be the be-all-and-end-all. Plus, as I mentioned before, it's entirely possible (likely?) that more teams will drop out of postseason play and open up spots for the next in line.

If Stanford gets a bid, Coach Haase said that he would welcome it. I don't think he would say that if he feels that he has lost the locker room. Or maybe he's in denial.

I'm still on the fence as to whether or not the NIT would be a good thing for Stanford given the current state of the program.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - Goose - 03-13-2021

(03-13-2021, 11:49 AM)Papa John Wrote:  If Stanford gets a bid, Coach Haase said that he would welcome it. I don't think he would say that if he feels that he has lost the locker room. Or maybe he's in denial.


I'm still on the fence as to whether or not the NIT would be a good thing for Stanford given the current state of the program.
I think it is mostly "coachspeak". If he says he doesn't want the bid, he is admitting he and his team are in total disarray. He is not going to do that even if they are. He is probably hoping that he won't have to deal with that eventuality. He probably won't have to, I expect.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - Papa John - 03-14-2021

The NIT selections will be announced tonight, so we'll know soon enough. If the Pac-12 gets its top 5 teams into the NCAA tournament, then it will come down to Stanford, Utah, ASU, WSU or no Pac-12 teams at all (Arizona is ineligible for postseason play). I could see the latter as the most likely.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - BobK - 03-14-2021

It’s over the season ends no NIT

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - Oskidunker - 03-14-2021

(03-14-2021, 05:36 PM)BobK Wrote:  It’s over the season ends no NIT

The CBI is possible. They are announcing selections soon.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - burger - 03-14-2021

(03-14-2021, 05:45 PM)Oskidunker Wrote:  
(03-14-2021, 05:36 PM)BobK Wrote:  It’s over the season ends no NIT

The CBI is possible. They are announcing selections soon.

Let's pass.  I don't want the season to end with yet another blowout loss.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - PVTree - 03-14-2021

Surprised that there are no P12 teams in NIT

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - magnus - 03-14-2021

(03-14-2021, 05:48 PM)PVTree Wrote:  Surprised that there are no P12 teams in NIT
With the low regard for Pac12 MBB (outside of Walton), it's probably not that surprising.

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - Maple Leaf - 03-14-2021

The only West Coast team to make the nit was St. Mary's (I assume this is the St. Mary's in Moraga).

RE: Men's BB: To NIT or not to NIT? - winflop - 03-14-2021

(03-14-2021, 05:36 PM)BobK Wrote:  It’s over the season ends no NIT

Good. Seriously.