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Softness on Defense - OutsiderFan - 09-19-2021

That was one seriously sad defensive effort against Vanderbilt. If they played their second QB the whole game, Stanford would have given up 400 yards rushing and maybe lost. 

There were plenty of missed and broken tackles around the LOS, but there is no gang tackling to speak of out there, so when a tackle is being made, nobody is helping, and the ball carriers are getting 2-3 yards after contact. And of course there is no pass rush to speak of either because Stanford's DL stays velcro'd to the OL blocking them, so how can you ever justify rushing 3 guys on 3rd and long plays?

Was going back and forth to watching the White Out during the Stanford game and learned Derek Mason is now the Auburn DC. Did Shaw ask him to return to Stanford in that role and he passed, or was he not asked because Shaw lacks the balls to replace Lance Anderson?

RE: Softness on Defense - BostonCard - 09-19-2021

Your observation generally about the defense (especially in the first half) is correct.  And while we have struggled with mobile QBs, so it is entirely possible Wright would have torched us, it’s hard to know what to make of one series in garbage time where we almost picked him off.  On the other hand, your diagnosis of the other problems is off.  We only recorded one sack, but we repeatedly got to Seals, leading to him completing less than 50% of his passes (16/37). You might reasonably complain that we should have gotten to him more given how green the Vandy OL is, but by and large, I thought the passing defense (including the pass rush) was fine, especially in the second half.  It’s hard to really complain about giving up 3.2 ypa.

I also disagree that there was no gang tackling; I thought that we did a reasonably good job swarming to the ball, but that’s because the initial tackling was subpar.  What I saw was a lot of guys miss their initial tackles, but slow the Vandy runner down enough that three or four other defenders could finish him off.  I do agree with allowing too much yards after contact, because even though the initial contact slowed Vandy down, the runner could usually get three or four more yards before being gang tackled.  Tackling did get better in the second half, but we did allow 250 yards rushing.  Again, the second half was better, but also probably because Vandy was pressing trying to come back from behind.

BC

RE: Softness on Defense - Phogge - 09-19-2021

Stanford tackled well when they had better players. The DL and LB talent is way lower than it was 2010-2015.

RE: Softness on Defense - qwerty49 - 09-19-2021

Wyrick is a keeper and IMHO a 4-yr starter. NB is perfect for him now but I see him taking over for Kelly next year when KBK goes pro.

I agree that yards after contact was a big problem. Phogge is right about the talent gap. In past years we had stud LBs to make up for the DL. I think Herron has some upside but JMF has been disappointing and Miezan doesn’t seem that quick to the ball. Maybe some of it is scheme but it sure looks like you can run all day on us between the tackles.  Honestly I’m having a hard time remembering when we had a good pass rush, but that’s probably scheme as well.

What is with DBs lining up offsides? That’s two games in a row and inexcusable.

RE: Softness on Defense - martyup - 09-19-2021

(09-19-2021, 10:41 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:  Wyrick is a keeper and IMHO a 4-yr starter. NB is perfect for him now but I see him taking over for Kelly next year when KBK goes pro.

I agree that yards after contact was a big problem. Phogge is right about the talent gap. In past years we had stud LBs to make up for the DL. I think Herron has some upside but JMF has been disappointing and Miezan doesn’t seem that quick to the ball. Maybe some of it is scheme but it sure looks like you can run all day on us between the tackles.  Honestly I’m having a hard time remembering when we had a good pass rush, but that’s probably scheme as well.

What is with DBs lining up offsides? That’s two games in a row and inexcusable.

If you re-watch the game, focus on #3 on our D.  IMO, he is a weak link in our run D.  He over pursues, waits for action to come to him instead of attacking forward, loses his assignment in pass coverage, and has shown poor tackling.  JMF might not be great, but he is playing better than #3.  I know we are thin at LB and we have to put what we have on the field.  Hopefully our guys will improve as the season progresses.

RE: Softness on Defense - Phogge - 09-19-2021

This is JMF’s first real action. If he and Sinclair don’t improve Stanford is in for trouble. Noah Williams is another weakness but is playing as well as he can. Safety has been a weakness for years. Oh for an attacking safety who delivers blows over the middle that makes WR’s wary.

RE: Softness on Defense - Brickcity - 09-19-2021

(09-19-2021, 11:59 AM)Phogge Wrote:  This is JMF’s first real action. If he and Sinclair don’t improve Stanford is in for trouble. Noah Williams is another weakness but is playing as well as he can. Safety has been a weakness for years. Oh for an attacking safety who delivers blows over the middle that makes WR’s wary.

Meizan is also playing in his first real action. I have to think that he, JMF and Sinclair will continue to improve over the course of the season. They have no choice!

RE: Softness on Defense - SamuelMcF - 09-19-2021

Jonathan McGill's preseason injury was a brobdingnagian bummer. I was looking forward to seeing him actually playing safety (not nickel, where he was in the past) - he would be starting instead of Noah Williams. Hopefully not a full-season injury, but at least it's a redshirt if so. (Remember he burnt his.) We now have quite the young nickel in Wyrick as well.

RE: Softness on Defense - JeffInCorvallis - 09-19-2021

Concerned that we may have to score 50 to beat the Bruins, and 60 to beat the Ducks.

RE: Softness on Defense - JohnR34231 - 09-19-2021

(09-19-2021, 03:35 PM)JeffInCorvallis Wrote:  Concerned that we may have to score 50 to beat the Bruins, and 60 to beat the Ducks.

Hey, if Stony Brook can hold the Ducks to 48, maybe 50 will get the job done.

RE: Softness on Defense - BostonCard - 09-19-2021

UCLA has scored 44, 38, and 37 points in its 3 games, so 40 points might do it, unless our defense is as bad as Hawaii's.  FWIW, we've scored 40 the last two weeks, but there was that game against K State.

Oregon has scored 31, 35, and 48 so 50 points will probably do it, unless our defense is worse than Stony Brook's.

Fresno held UCLA to 37 points (in a win) and Oregon to 31 (in a loss).

BC

RE: Softness on Defense - old spanish trail - 09-19-2021

(09-19-2021, 10:41 AM)qwerty49 Wrote:  Wyrick is a keeper and IMHO a 4-yr starter. NB is perfect for him now but I see him taking over for Kelly next year when KBK goes pro.

I agree that yards after contact was a big problem. Phogge is right about the talent gap. In past years we had stud LBs to make up for the DL. I think Herron has some upside but JMF has been disappointing and Miezan doesn’t seem that quick to the ball. Maybe some of it is scheme but it sure looks like you can run all day on us between the tackles.  Honestly I’m having a hard time remembering when we had a good pass rush, but that’s probably scheme as well.

What is with DBs lining up offsides? That’s two games in a row and inexcusable.

Miezan, JMF and Sinclair are all faster than lots of lb's in the past but they are all inexperienced and therefore don't quite trust their reads; therefore they are a mini second or so late. UCLA makes wholesale subs across the DL. Best we can do is one now and then. We are really thin. Db's have played surprisingly well, I think, given their talent and experience. STM and McGill were our 2nd and 3rd best db's. Yay for discovery of Wyrick. Manley playing over his head so far. And, the rest as well as they can as someone said.

RE: Softness on Defense - CTcard - 09-19-2021

In all three games, the defense started very slowly then got much better.

Vs KSU the defense gave up 240 yds in the first half, 94 in the second.*
Vs SC it was a little more complicated, as the defense started with 2 three and outs, then gave up three long drives, two in the first half one in the second. That was followed by three 3 and outs (one out on an INT) until the backups gave up a couple of TDs in garbage time.
Vs Vandy, the D gave up 214 yds in the first three drives, then 114 yds in the next 8 drives which included 5 three and outs. Then the backups gave up another garbage time TD on a long drive.

* These are drive yards. Official yards from scrimmage would be a little different depending on penalties.


Through all of this, the run defense has been pretty terrible, the pass defense rather good.
Every team we have faced has had their best ypc against us, Vandy by a ton.
However, SC and Vandy had their worst passing games against us (by PER, or YPA, or total yds). KSU is a little more complicated and the results depend on which stats you like, but they lost their QB at the start of their next game.
Similarly, Stanford has the worst run defense in the conference by yds/gm and yds/att, though they did play tougher opponents in sum-total than anyone else.
Stanford has the third best conference pass defense by PER, though adjusted by opponents probably first.


This isn't good news for the near future. The Pac 12 teams with the highest percentage of their yds by rushing are #2 ASU (52%), #3 Oregon (48%), and #4 UCLA (45%). Colorado is actually #1 here (61%) though that isn't so much that they are good at running but their pass game basically doesn't exist. By contrast, Stanford has 37% of its yds rushing, which seems to be the ninth lowest rushing fraction.

I certainly fear our next 3 opponents are going to run all over us.

RE: Softness on Defense - martyup - 09-19-2021

I just started re-watching the game.

On Vandy's first drive of the game, here is what we saw from #3 Damuni playing strong side inside linebacker (SAM):

2nd play, moves out of position on the snap and the runner gains 12 yards right through his zone.
4th play, over pursues and they run right to his zone for 5 yards and a 1st down.
5th play, lines up late and runs away from the play on the snap as they run right to his zone for 7 yards.
7th play, runs away from the play on the snap as they run right to his zone for 8 yards.
8th play, they run right at him and he misses the tackle (gain of 5).
9th play, he blitzes up the middle but stops when he meets a blocker and backs up and watches as the ball is thrown to the corner of the end zone.
12th play, he gets in on a tackle at the goal line.
13th play, he pushes the pile that has stopped the QB sneak.
14th play, he lines up on the left side over the TE.  The ball is at the 1 yard line.  He crashes inside and the runner scores a TD right where he originally lined up.


On Vandy's second possession, JMF came in for Damuni.  Here's what happened:

1st play, they run away from JMF 
2nd play, they throw to the flat incomplete.
3rd play, pass to the flat.
4th play, he lines up on the outside to cover a slot back.  Run up the middle tackled by Booker.
5th play, deep throw incomplete.  JMF backed into shallow coverage.
6th play, pass away from him.  He helps in the tackle on the opposite sideline.
7th play, run up the middle for short gain.  JMF not involved.
8th play, sideline pass. JMF not involved.
9th play, assists Booker in tackle at LOS.
10th play, deep pass.  He covered slot receiver.
11th play, he lines up over the strong side tackle at the LOS and blitzes.  Pass incomplete.
12th play, Vandy misses FG

Not much action for JMF in that series.  Could it be that Vandy's scout info told them to run at #3 when he is in?
We have receivers that can really catch the ball.  I've been impressed with Yuro, TREEmain, Humphreys, and Higgins.  Our backs have also done a good job catching the ball -- Smith, Jones, Filkins, and Symonds. If we can get Wilson back, we will have a lot of great targets for McKee.

BTW, in the second quarter at 12:42, McKee was setting up to throw a pass to #34 Heimuli, but it was knocked down.

RE: Softness on Defense - martyup - 09-19-2021

Vandy's 3rd series, #3 back in with #14 JMF.  Miezan is out.

1st play, run up the middle.  #3 crashes the hole to clog the running lane.  Fox makes the tackle
2nd play, run towards JMF.  Tackled at LOS by others.
3rd play, #3 blitzes the A gap and is blocked.  Run goes off right tackle and is stopped by others. JMF not involved.
4th play, quick out pass for a 1st down.
5th play, #15 Herron sacks the QB
6th play, the run off tackle.  JMF is unblocked and misses the tackle.  34 yard gain on the run.
7th play,  run up the middle. #3 and #14 not involved in the tackle for short gain.
8th play, long pass incomplete.
9th play, quick pass to the outside complete.
10th play, 4th and 1.  QB sneak for 1st down.
11th play, #3 misreads the play and crashes to the left, running into #14.  The runner cuts it back right through the zone #3 vacated and makes a gain of 26.  #14 makes the tackle.
12th play, #14 stunts up the A gap and assists on the tackle for no gain.
13th play, quick out pass complete.
14th play, #3 lined up on the LOS (goal line D) and makes a good stop for a loss of 2
15th play, pass to edge of the end zone for a TD

Conclusion, we need Miezan in the game.  JMF is less likely to make big mistakes than Damuni.
4th Vandy series.  Sinclair #8 is in with Miezan #45.

1st play, both ILBs blocked.  Booker makes tackle at LOS.
2nd play, sideline pass.
3rd play, Sinclair drops back into coverage of slot receiver.  Miezan drops back to center field. Wyrick picks off pass.